Breaking down the Euro PS3's backward compatiblity

by Kyle Orland { Mar 20th 2007 at 1:35PM }

Amid concerns that the European version of the PlayStation 3 will be less than fully backward compatible, Sony has unveiled a new web site listing old games that will work under the version 1.6 firmware, due to be released concurrently with the European launch on Thursday. Unfortunately, the site is organized in a rather user-unfriendly paged format that requires a lot of clicking around to get to the data you want. We did some extra legwork and copied the data into a couple of convenient Google Docs spreadsheets (PS1, PS2). We also crunched the numbers to see just how extensive the European PS3's backward compatibility will be at launch.

The results are a little underwhelming. While over 2,800 combined PS2 and PS1 games are listed as working on the PAL PS3, they represent only about 56 percent of the approximately 5,000 discs available for both systems in PAL format. Unlisted games like Metal Gear Solid 2, Final Fantasy VII, Resident Evil 2 and all the Ratchet and Clank games will not work at all come launch day -- as it says in the fine print of the site, "if your game is not listed here, emulation is not yet supported on PLAYSTATION®3." [update: added fine print quote -- thanks Ian] (Note: Discs are listed by serial number, one game may be listed under multiple serial numbers).

What's more, of the roughly 2,800 listed games, only about 1,800 of them (approx. 63 percent) work with "no known issues." A good 550 or so have "noticeable issues," according to Sony, among them big names like Metal Gear Solid and Tomb Raider II on the PS1 and Final Fantasy X, Kingdom Hearts, SingStar, and Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas on the PS2. [Update: Moved Kingdom Hearts from PS1 to PS2. Whoops!]

Of course, these numbers will only go up as Sony continues to update the firmware, but as a starting point, we're a little disappointed that roughly two-thirds of the PlayStation/PS2 library won't work perfectly on Europe's launch day PS3s.

Continue reading for a quick breakdown of the numbers and more chartly goodness.

PlayStation
Total games: 2,570*
Total games working: 1,044 (40.62% of total games) (Google Docs Spreadsheet)

No known issues: 699 (66.95% of working games)
Minor issues: 219 (20.97% of working games)
Noticeable issues: 126 (12.06% of working games)

* - Total/unlisted game numbers derived from list of PAL serial numbers on SonyIndex.com

PlayStation 2
Total games: 2,451**
Total games working: 1,782 (72.7% of all games) (Google Docs Spreadhsheet)

No known issues: 1,093 (61.34% of working games)
Minor issues: 254 (14.25% of working games)
Noticeable issues: 435 (24.41% of working games)

** - Total/unlisted game numbers derived from post on ThreeSpeech

Combined
Total Games: 5,021 (see asterisk notes above)
Total games working: 2,826 (56.29% of all games)

No known issues: 1792 (63.41% or working games)
Minor issues: 473 (16.74% of working games)
Noticeable issues: 561 (19.85% of working games)

Tags: backward compatible, BackwardCompatible, BC, Europe, PlayStation, PlayStation 2, PlayStation 3, Playstation2, Playstation3, PS1, PS2, PS3, Sony

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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)

ShaleX @ Mar 20th 2007 3:29PM

Wow, when did Kingdom Hearts get to PS1?

Todd @ Mar 20th 2007 1:40PM

Hah hah, man, looks like Europe is still getting screwed over. I realize that by this date, many people are probably no longer playing PlayStation 1 games... but still... those incompatible figures are pretty large in retrospect.

Myke @ Mar 20th 2007 1:40PM

Now all we need is an article showing that the PS3 really IS the cause of all the hate and evil in the world and my day will be complete =)

Gamey McGee @ Mar 20th 2007 3:34PM

I would have guessed the 43.72% that is not listed simply hasn't been tested-- which in NO WAY implies that it doesn't work.

Don't get your underwear in a bunch over this. The backwards compatibility list is supposed to be FAR more substantial than this. In general, most titles should work unless they break from standard implementation.

Noshino @ Mar 20th 2007 1:47PM

err....why joystiq..why do you like to bash Sony? Didn't they promise more than 1k games? shouldn't that be enough since M$ didn't give a damn about their xbox games?...

...talk about fanboyism....a site that is supposed to show the gaming news, fair and square, and not just take sides, Nintendo and Microsoft if I may add...opps

JodyAnthony @ Mar 20th 2007 1:47PM

lately I have been playing more PSOne and SNES games than anything else (thank you, PSP!)

jesse @ Mar 20th 2007 3:33PM

There are some errors in the article. It lists that 1,800 games work with "no known issues". No, Sony lists 1,800 SKUs (1,200 games) as working at all. Only 61% of those 1,200 games work with "no known issues" according to their chart.

That leaves 732 games working with "no known issues". That's a huge loss compared to the hardware backward compatibility and switching to software emulation can only be seen as terrible for the consumer.

Joshua @ Mar 20th 2007 1:49PM

Please, no one bring up the 360's terrible BC. Just because one company doesn't have full BC doesn't mean another doesn't have to have it, either.

This IS a disappointment, but it was already expected. Poor Europe... :( But we'll probably be getting it some day in the future...

kevinski @ Mar 20th 2007 1:50PM

Unless I'm blind or otherwise overlooking it, Castlevania: Symphony of the Night for PlayStation isn't listed at all. That's just horrible.

Xenokai @ Mar 21st 2007 4:13AM

Thats is a great amount of working games compare that to the super weak list of xbox 1 games BC on the 360 the ps3 is still better in BC even in europe lol

Lucipher @ Mar 20th 2007 1:52PM

did that say "big names like Metal Gear Solid, Tomb Raider II and Kingdom Hearts on the PS1"?

Vidikron @ Mar 20th 2007 1:53PM

I'm kind of surprised the PSOne list is missing so many games. I wonder if they are all not working or simply haven't been tested? Given they Sony has a pretty good PSOne emulator running on the PSP I would have thought the PS3 version would have been very good.

JodyAnthony @ Mar 20th 2007 1:54PM

Noshino, there is nothing wrong with this post (except for Kingom Hearts wasn't on PSOne, heh)

Just because they post a story that may be negative in a way on Sony doesn't mean they are against Sony. Isn't Sony the one that said something like 'virtually all playstation and playstation 2 titles will be playable'? (I might be mistaken)
As for microsoft, they said from the beginning 'more popular titles will be backwards compatable'

sheppy @ Mar 20th 2007 1:57PM

@noshino.

This is a blogging site. They have no obligation to be unbiased.

I am, amused however, how many of the Xbox games on 360 have huge glitches and are mentioned as "working." However, Sony mentions glitched games as "working" as well, just with one bar.

CW @ Mar 20th 2007 1:58PM

"Of course, these numbers will only go up as Sony continues to update the firmware, but as a starting point, we're a little disappointed that roughly two-thirds of the PlayStation/PS2 library won't work perfectly on Europe's launch day PS3s."

Is this because one of the first things you want to do is try to play all your mid/late 90's discs on your shiny new box?

Or is it because you couldn't think of a more clever jab at Sony?

I mean I'm with you %100: they shouldn't have shipped the thing until %100 of PS1 titles were supported. But you lost me when you limited your disappointment to the product launch.

Or maybe you're conceding the point that if this emulation actually turns out to be important, the list of titles can be improved by a simple firmware update at some later date?

Anyway: kudos on the pie charts.

rarehero @ Mar 20th 2007 1:59PM

Just a note to the person who made the graph.

Unlisted means not working OR working, it is unknown.

Still, it doesn't sound good.

mj @ Mar 20th 2007 2:00PM

Just to sum, about 2/5ths of all the games will actually work with no issues.

The ps1 support is awful. I think installing a ps1 emulator on Linux would give you better support - and the memory card saves have to be copied to the hard drive anyway, so I don't know why they couldn't do that instead.

BPM @ Mar 20th 2007 2:01PM

Microsoft has, though, made most of its good Xbox games compatable on 360. And in most cases, they look slightly better on 360 than they did on the original Xbox.
I think so, anyways. I honestly haven't looked into it much, as I own neither Xbox nor 360.

"err....why joystiq..why do you like to bash Sony?"
Um, because they continue to screw up? If they didn't keep making stupid moves, people wouldn't have a reason to attack them.

Joystiq has been critical of Nintendo and Microsoft, too (see their lists of annoyances for all three current systems, and you'll see what I mean).

But right now, the folks at Sony have been stumbling. A lot. It's noone's fault but those at Sony that their company gets so much bad press.

Want the Sony bashing to stop? Get their CEOs to stop saying stupid things ("Work more hours for a PS3," "RIIIIIIDGE RAAAAACEEER," "I'll pay $1,200 for every PS3 you find on shelves," etc.) and to not half-deliver on promises (changes made to PS3 from E3 2005 to E3 2006, promises of an Xbox Live-killer for free, promises of full backward compatability, etc.)

Now... to nitpick on Mr. Orland's post a bit:
"among them big names like Metal Gear Solid, Tomb Raider II and Kingdom Hearts on the PS1"
Kingdom Hearts is on PS2. :P

Dolla Dolla @ Mar 20th 2007 2:02PM

A very important question needs to be asked.

Does the software emulation for this update have upscaling for the ps1/ps2 games?

Todd @ Mar 20th 2007 2:02PM

@Noshino

Hah hah, trying to use your fanboyism to defend your precious product. The problems were already stated awhile ago, made pretty evident by the very fact Sony has showed very little regard and effort in the European market. Joystiq is merely continuing coverage of this problem, which was made clear weeks ago. I think you're just upset that people haven't forgotten this slight upset and are following up.

Digi Smalls @ Mar 20th 2007 2:05PM

can someone please just post the Sony exec and fanboy quotes about PS3 means keeping the Playstation "legacy" now?

nevermind the two more landmark playstation franchises switching sides this week.

.

Ben @ Mar 20th 2007 2:06PM

I went through the list earlier today and found similar, erm.. shortcomings although didn't get as far as the sexy graphs ;) There's undoubtedly some good news here with a lot of popular games reportedly working fine and some are going for the lies, damn lies and statistics approach to show percentage of supported titles. The simple fact is that those paying over the odds this weekend for PS3's in Europe are getting a lot less of a machine. And a lot of extra confusion. Some of the games they own won't work as they expected or will work differently than their friends copies.
http://gamenian.blogspot.com/2007/03/sony-release-ps2-compat-list-early.html

"(Note: Discs are listed by serial number, one game may be listed under multiple serial numbers)."
They're listed by SLES code, all games released have a unique SLES code in Europe (in the US there are SCUS codes) which are assigned by Sony. But slightly different versions of a game can have a different code. So for instance, a version with different language support or one released as part of a collectors edition or platinum pack could have a different code. This often signifies a change in actual game somewhere. Most of the time this doesn't matter to consumers, now it does, as different versions of some titles have different levels of compatibility. So there isn't even a straight party line for the same game throughout Europe.

Backwards compatibility isn't everything and well done Sony for getting this far. But there are a lot of unhappy people out there and I'm sure things could have played out differently if they'd have been straight about the situation from the start. And passed on some of the savings!

teitoku @ Mar 20th 2007 2:22PM

Looks like another nail in the PAL coffin to me. Europeans need to ditch that garbage, it's the source of ALL their videogame problems.

BloodyDuck @ Mar 20th 2007 4:39PM

It's a lot more important to know which games don't work, not just the total numbers. Those big names are probably going to be the most substantial. Can't Sony just work on improving the compatibility for the biggest sellers? The 80/20 rule seems like it would be useful here...

-Geoff
http://www.alinktothefuture.com

Noshino @ Mar 20th 2007 2:13PM

"Of course, these numbers will only go up as Sony continues to update the firmware, but as a starting point, we're a little disappointed that roughly two-thirds of the PlayStation/PS2 library won't work perfectly on Europe's launch day PS3s."

Sony promised 1k+, aren't they accomplishing that?

JodyAnthony, sorry, but disappointing should be M$ for having only a few of their "vast" xbox gaming library compatible with the 360.

And I took it as Sony's bashing because even tho they accomplished the 1k mark, the post was turned into a disappointing remark. Aren't there better news that can be posted about Sony (IMO latest one being Naughty Dog's game info)? Yes, are most of them ever posted? No

@sheppy
heh, I suppose you are right, that's just what you would expect from joystiq lately.

"Want the Sony bashing to stop? Get their CEOs to stop saying stupid things ("Work more hours for a PS3," "RIIIIIIDGE RAAAAACEEER," "I'll pay $1,200 for every PS3 you find on shelves," etc.) and to not half-deliver on promises (changes made to PS3 from E3 2005 to E3 2006, promises of an Xbox Live-killer for free, promises of full backward compatability, etc.)"

I know that, but you might as well see what the other 2 sides have also said (crap).

@Todd

"Sony has showed very little regard and effort in the European market"

Very little....compared to M$? are you sure? Sony promised 1k and they seem to be accomplishing it...and M$ hasn't done anything in regards to BC lately...

Sorry

Matt B @ Mar 20th 2007 2:13PM

I didn't buy my PS3 to play all the old games. Not to mention that these people still have a PS2 if they really need to play those game. Just like this patch, I'm sure more will come down to allow more BC.

jitty @ Mar 20th 2007 10:16PM

Seriously, you guys are dissappointed that 1800 games worth with no problem and 2800 games work with some slight problems? Tell me again how many xbox games work on the xbox360? Does the xbox360 even have 1800 games?

J.Goodwin @ Mar 20th 2007 4:44PM

If the 2,451 total games for PS2 represents titles, then the appropriate numerator is a little less than 1,235. The other "working games" represent other serial numbers for the exact same title string. That's before you account for games that have different titles in different countries, and some that may just have a punctuation change.

Based on that definition of unique (unique title strings, not necessarily unique games), you have 750 fully working PS2 games, 181 working PS2 games, and 305 working but broken games that Sony used to pad out the list.

That puts the PS2 emulation on par with the PS1 emulation, with about a 50% hit rate.

JodyAnthony @ Mar 20th 2007 2:24PM

Noshino, nothing against your points but typing 'M$' is as stupid and lame as 'POS3' and 'WiiWii'

BPM @ Mar 20th 2007 2:24PM

"I know that, but you might as well see what the other 2 sides have also said (crap)."

I'm not trying to defend Microsoft or Nintendo here (and as a Nintendo fan, I can say that Ms. Perrin Kaplan should stop speaking to the public, as she has been wrong about several things she's said), but this post is about Sony, and only Sony.

sheppy @ Mar 20th 2007 2:25PM

Contrary to this article's numbers...

Nearly 1,800 of the 2,400 PS2 games have been deemed backwards compatible with software emulation. Not only that, every PS-One title will work also.

BadVermin @ Mar 20th 2007 2:27PM

Wow. Going from 99% to 36% with no price drop or features.

Saneless @ Mar 20th 2007 2:37PM

See, we all knew it'd be a non-issue and we were right.

No one really wanted to play MGS 2 and 3, Jak 1, 2, and 3, GTA:SA, Burnout 3, NFS Most Wanted, Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy X, Guitar Hero, Prince of Persia, Resident Evil 4, Viewtiful Joe, Virtua Fighter 4, Ratchet and Clank, and Killzone anyway. Basically all the worthwhile games are covered.

JodyAnthony @ Mar 20th 2007 2:38PM

I'm glad Sheppy knows more about PS3 backwards compatibility than Sony does.

Noshino @ Mar 20th 2007 2:46PM

"I'm not trying to defend Microsoft or Nintendo here (and as a Nintendo fan, I can say that Ms. Perrin Kaplan should stop speaking to the public, as she has been wrong about several things she's said), but this post is about Sony, and only Sony."

Sorry, it WAS just about Sony

"Joystiq has been critical of Nintendo and Microsoft, too (see their lists of annoyances for all three current systems, and you'll see what I mean).

But right now, the folks at Sony have been stumbling. A lot. It's noone's fault but those at Sony that their company gets so much bad press.

Want the Sony bashing to stop? Get their CEOs to stop saying stupid things ("Work more hours for a PS3," "RIIIIIIDGE RAAAAACEEER," "I'll pay $1,200 for every PS3 you find on shelves," etc.) and to not half-deliver on promises (changes made to PS3 from E3 2005 to E3 2006, promises of an Xbox Live-killer for free, promises of full backward compatability, etc.)"

...see? was til you brought the other 2 in

@JodyAnthony

I apologize for that, MS :)

rfom @ Mar 20th 2007 5:56PM

You know whats funny? The fact that there are so many outstanding PS1 / PS2 games available was not a positive for PS3, as per xbots. But when a few of them do not work perfectly - thats a negative for PS3. Wow, great logic!!!

"The results are underwhelming. 56 percent of the approximately 5,000 discs"
All the noise about "its about games" - 10times as many BC games as 360? Thats underwhelming?

After all the "You cant believe Sony" FUD - they promised 1000+ BC and are beating it by a huge margin, time to eat your words xbots?

But let us not get facts in the way, shall we?

Some good games do seem to be on the "may not work perfectly" list. Hopefully next update?

Evan @ Mar 20th 2007 2:52PM

@CW "Is this because one of the first things you want to do is try to play all your mid/late 90's discs on your shiny new box?"

Right now, my PS2 has a PS1 disc and PS1 memory card in it. The game: the original Spyro, which is not listed as compatible. Why am I playing a 9-year old game? Because there are many great games with timeless gameplay that I missed when they came out, so I buy them cheap now. There's still many great games PS1 and PS2 that I've missed and hope to play in the future, like Shadow of the Colossus. I'll probably still be playing PS2 games for years to come!

I was hoping that the PS3 could replace my PS2. My PS2 is showing its age, and it can no longer read PS2 games that are on CDs. I doubt it will last another 5 years. If Sony doesn't improve the PS3's backwards compatibility, it'll be worth it for me to buy a new PS2 before they become discontinued.

Crono @ Mar 20th 2007 2:54PM

Sony is Boned in europe.

Dolla Dolla @ Mar 20th 2007 2:55PM

Couple things:

1) I would like my question answered: Does this software emulator upscale PS1/PS2 games? I'm afraid it doesn't, but would like to know if it does.

2) The reason why big games are having some known issues is simple. Those games did spectacular things on the underpowered PS2, using every trick the damn Emotion Engine could handle. EE removed = some of those games won't work as well.

Intentless @ Mar 20th 2007 3:00PM

Aside from Halo 2 I have never used backwards compatibility not for any of the systems. Not even the FF remakes for PS or MGS games on the PS. I don't see it as being something of actual value. Most people that care about this already have the older system...

Matt B @ Mar 20th 2007 3:30PM

How's the 360 BC coming along?

Todd @ Mar 20th 2007 3:44PM

@Noshino

"Very little....compared to M$? are you sure? Sony promised 1k and they seem to be accomplishing it...and M$ hasn't done anything in regards to BC lately."

1k what? Units? You think making sure that enough units available is enough to make people buy a product? Where's the incentive? Where's the payload? Sony has upped the price of the PS3 for Europe and has further limited the backwards compatibility for older games. Not to mention that Sony pushed the launch of the PS3 to Europe by several months, compared to Japan and the US. So yeah... I'm pretty sure.

Nino @ Mar 20th 2007 3:46PM

Wait a minute, Kingdom hearts is a ps2 game

Digi Smalls @ Mar 20th 2007 3:52PM

"I didn't buy my PS3 to play all the old games. Not to mention that these people still have a PS2 if they really need to play those game. Just like this patch, I'm sure more will come down to allow more BC."

was this quote from Matt B, Sony fan in 2007, despite Sony promises? or xbox360 fan in 2005 knowing what they were getting for $200 less?

.

.

amirnetz @ Mar 20th 2007 4:41PM

I noticed that many games show in more than one SKU (“Serial Number”). I wondered why Sony decided to list the Serial Numbers and count each as a separate title while the gaming community will typically count each game as one title regardless of the Serial Number. I decide to rerun the calculation looking at unique titles only.
Here is what I did:

1. I took the same data and calculated the number of unique games. For the PS2 there are only 1240 unique games listed. (instead of 1782 when all duplicate titles were counted)

2. For each of the unique games I calculated the compatibility score. If the same game had more than one SKU I calculated the average compatibility score of the SKU. I was generous and rounded it up if the score was not uniform across the SKUs.

3. Since I don’t have the list of the “unlisted games” I could not eliminate duplicates from that list. Therefore I assume that the duplicate ratios are the same as with the listed game and I added the “unlisted games” at the same ratio as provided above (27.29%).

The results I got are:
No listed/not working: 27.29%
Having noticeable issues (269 unique games): 13.6%
Having minor issues (195 unique games): 9.9%
No known issues (776 unique games): 39.2%

Perhaps it was not deliberate but Sony’s inclusion of all separate SKUs for the same game allowed them to inflate the 3-star compatibility scores from 39.2% to 44.59% of the titles.
Food for thought.

CW @ Mar 20th 2007 4:01PM

@Evan -

I'm not saying there's no point to backward compatability.

I'm saying most people, when they buy a shiny box, they buy some shiny discs to put in it.

If PS3 incompatability is a deal breaker for you, that probably puts you so far off on the fringe of the userbase that Sony could really care less about you.

Digi Smalls @ Mar 20th 2007 4:06PM

does regularly losing exclusives to a significantly cheaper machine matter to the userbase?

.

Matt B @ Mar 20th 2007 4:34PM

Digi smalls:
I don't follow.
The extra $200 was worth it and to anyone that bought a PS3. Losing exclusives, I could give a crap. Companies need to make money and a broader market is better for these companies. Then they can bring all of us more games. Is that bad?