Time to reinvent Sonic the Hedgehog, says Sega

Mario vs. Sonic?

My money is on Sonic. He's got blast processing.

Huh? Sonic and the Secret Rings was decent, and compared to the hi def versions, light years better. There's fucking no kissing scene with a human fucking being.

Hey now, Sonic and the secret rings was a very good game.
Not up to par with the 2d Sonics on Genesis, but as a 3d Sonic its great.
I'm STILL tryin to get all the golds in the game. A very difficult yet fun thing to attempt.

I'm glad it sounds like they're taking away the multiconsole approach to the franchise. As soon as they did that, the Sonic Team went downhill, and it was more about making money than making an awesome game.

I hope Sonic sticks to the Wii for the time being. It's the perfect choice for the franchise.

I really hope they change the title of this new Mario/Sonic game though.

just go back to Sonic Adventure. the game was near perfect.

so...

are the making him slower?

sega really has fallen off the mountain. Pairing their iconic mascot in a kids game where a fat plumber actually has a chance of competing.

Sega slammed mario for years, now they have to ride his coat tails...

I gotta agree with the commenters on this one, 'stiq.

TSR was a much better game then most people give it credit for, especially after the first 30 minutes or so, once you get used to it. Jeah, it's difficult at first, but it gets easier to control, smoother, etc.

As to TSR not being a completely 'new Sonic', I say this: baby steps.

As a huge Sonic fan, I thought I would enjoy Secret Rings. But it simply smacked too much of weird, shoehorned controls and was just devoid of fun. It just made me wish for traditional controls, which even the 360 version gave me.

You know, if Sonic Team could just get their head around the technical matters, things would be so much better. Conceptually (and when it works, like in Sonic Adventure), I think the gameplay in the 3D Sonic games is pretty enjoyable. I'd love to see what would happen if Sega farmed the next game out to say, Crystal Dynamics. Dimps certainly did a fine job on Sonic Rush.

Oh, and of course, all of Sonic's friends would have to be shot.

Everyone, just watch...this Olympic thing is almost certainly going to be an April Fool's joke. I can practically guarantee it.

Why is it that no one has the same opinion on Sonic and the Secret Rings? The reviews have varied from a D- to a A-. No one seems to agree.

I've never known of a crap game to be hated by respectable human beings and love by idiots. Even idiots know a crap game when they play it. But I have known of many great games to be hated by idiots and enjoyed by respectable human beings.

Is that's whats going on here?

"Sonic is still an extremely endearing character; there's still a lot of love for Sonic out there in consumerland."

There are a lot of endearing characters that I would love to see return to their former glory, like Spyro and Jak (the original non-speaking Jak, not the newer "I'm cool" Jak). And what happened to Klonoa? He was the most "endearing" character. Or Tail Concerto, that game deserved a sequel!

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Hold the phone.

"If Sonic and the Secret Rings was the first step in revitalizing a franchise gone astray, it certainly wasn't a very good one."

WTF is that? Secret Rings deserves more credit than that. A LOT more credit than that. It wasn't the next perfect Sonic game, but it's a much better improvement over some of the other recent games. Secret Rings is fun. Perfect? No. Blockbuster hit? No. But fun. It's a step in the right direction.

So the final verdict on Sonic and The Secret Rings is that it wasn't good? Still getting mixed signals about that one.

I rented The Secret Rings and found myself staying up until 5 in the morning the day before Blockbuster would fine me $50 for not returning it. I HAD to beat the boss. Then when my lazy ass woke up at 2 pm and beat the game, it was very satisfying. A Sonic game hasn't done that for me since.... Sonic 2.

I think the reason The Secret Rings worked for me so well was that the whole game reminded me of the bonus rounds in Sonic 2 in which you run down those pipes really fast collecting rings. I always thought a whole game of that would be good.

Hey Sega! YOU SAID YOU WERE GOING TO RE-INVENT SONIC ON THE XBOX 360 AND PS3! LOOK HOW GREAT THAT WENT.

Arghfhgghg...

Sorry. Die hard Sonic fan here. That game makes me really angry and I am so sorry I paid full price for it.

Strange... Sonic Wii was admittedly one of the best 3D Sonic titles, yet the gaming press still love to pan it.

Seems that Sega have their work cut out. Not only do they have to create a more palatable Sonic, they also have to somehow convince the press that overzealous Sega-bashing isn't all that fun.

Playing through Sonic and the Secret Rings now I can say this: the control is just not there.

Sonic needs to ditch the sidekicks except for Tails and Knuckles.

To hell with any of the added adventure characters put them out to pasture.

People just hate Sonic nowadays. Except in Australia, where the high ratings are paid for in sex.

People do hate on Sonic in the current gen. Its called riding the hate wave.
I've always been a big Sega fan though, and have liked the current Sonics despite poor "professional" reviews.

But anyway, beating Sonic and The Secret Rings gave me TONS of enjoyment too. Going through the final levels, sweet music, a tough as nails boss until I got the hang of it(couldnt figure out how to beat him at the showdown part), it was exciting stuff.
And even now, earning the unlockables and gold medals is fun and exciting. Using Wind powered Sonic with the top upgrades is a BLAST too. FASTEST damn thing ever.
And even though the multiplayer is rushed, my bros and I still have a good time with it. its hard to make a 4player game not enjoyable in the first place. The violin minigame is hilarious :P

The controsl are fine. It's not perfect but I like it way better than joysticks thats for sure.

So Miyamoto is going to turn Sonic into a more Nintendo character? They said they're going to learn from him and Nintendo...

I'm actually playing the hell out of Sonic Mega Collection Plus for PS2 right now. Current Sonic gettin' ya down? Nothing beats classic Sonic.

Also, I'll stick out my neck and say I that I still think Sonic Heroes was underrated. Not the best game ever, but I still enjoy it.

Well the good news here is that Sonic Team won't be touching this game. The Sega Sports team will be working on it with Miyamoto and his homies. So this game will be a collaborative effort from the teams that made Wii Sports and Virtua Tennis. It will be the first (and most likely only) Olympic-themed game I buy.

Sonic and the Secret Rings was NOT FUN! That game was so incredibly frustrating. The controls were a nightmare! And trust me I had plenty of time to get used to them. I got halfway through the game (4 world rings) and finally had enough. I sold the game on eBay that night. Repetitive and cheesy music, broken targeting system, poor camera angles, cheesy story line, and I could go on and on about everything that is wrong. Some levels had to be played 10 times to complete the level (and a couple I'm sure I had to redo 20 times). So when joystiq says the game was like a drunk falling down the stairs, I'd have to disagree. It was more like a drunk lighting himself on fire and falling down the grand canyon.

What I really wish Sega would do is make Sonic in a free-roaming 3D world like Nintendo did for their mascot Mario 64. I haven't given up on Sonic yet, but I'm certainly going to be wary of future games.

In concept, Sonic's non-Wii 3D offerings have been good. In execution, however, they fall a bit short, due to poor controls, poor camera, poor hit detection (who else died due to falling through the ground?), and with the 360* game, poor loading times.

*NOTE: I haven't heard about the PS3 version, but I'd assume it's more of the same.

That's been the big problem with Sonic in 3D. It really takes away the fun from the games when you feel like you're not really in control and you have no idea why you just died.


Though I've yet to play Secret Rings myself, what I've heard from most people is that it's a much more polished game than Sonic's other recent offerings.

Miyamoto can make anything work. Sega is gonna work really hard focusing on the wrong things, trying to fix the cameras, having people avoid breaking jars for no reason, and bad voice acting and music, etc etc... then THE GENIUS will upturn the table and say "let's do THIS way, instead" and everyone at Sega will go "ooooh yeah... duh! why didn't WE think of that?"

I hope Sega actually means that, and not just saying that because of the success of Sonic and the Secret Rings. Sonic has been in dire need of a reinvention, ever since Sonic Adventure 2. Stop with the lame spin offs (Sonic Rivals, Sonic Riders, Shadow the Hedghog) and just focus on the blue hog. And I disagree with you Ludwig Kietzmann -- Sonic and the Secret Rings WAS a step in the right direction. I loved the game. The first Sonic game that had the right level of difficulty, and playing with Sonic and ONLY Sonic felt so refreshing. Only thing I wish the game had was more levels. Other than that, I loved that game.

It's time to see Sonic Team use a brand new engine for Sonic instead of reusing what seems to be the same exact game engine since Sonic Adventure.

rebooting sonic?


IT'S ABOUT GOD-DAMN TIME!
Christ, this shit is getting ridiculous. Go back to sonic and knuckles and work from there, Sega. And go in a GOOD direction this time, not a Big-The-Cat-fishing direction.

all they need to do is take the sonic levels from Sonic Adventure and make a game out of it. It would quite literally be the best sonic game ever.

As much as I enjoy the Sonic franchise, I have to say that the Wii Sonic and the Secret Rings was iffy for me at best.

Don't get me wrong, while I enjoyed the idea of the new control mechanics, the last thing I ever wanted to do was slow down or much less STOP in order to make a perfect jump at times.

Also comon, why do control upgrades have to be acquired through leveling? I want to have smooth controls from the get go, not half way into the game.

Anyhow, I'd love to see Sonic (And hopefully more of Sega's past games) reinvented. Though, I hope they don't go overboard and decide to make an abomination like the new !!Xtreme Loony Tunes!! they're showing these days.

If Sega wants to reinvent Sonic, the first thing they need to do is stop referring to him as an "intellectual property". You think any of the great game designers out there actually refer to their games and characters that way? What the hell does intellectual property have to do with fun?

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This is how Mario vs. Sonic ends

@23...if this is still a April Fool's joke, then this will be the biggest April Fools joke ever, to piss off a lot of fans and to have so many companies and the media to make it happen.

It would be a waste of money to advisement and copyright and I know Sega and definably Nintendo wouldn't do that for a April Fool Joke. V_V

Secret Rings has got it's share of problems, for sure, but over all, it's a very good game. Easily the best 3D Sonic ever, in my opinion, too.
Like a few others have said, it's the first Sonic game I've played since the 2D outings where I've actually WANTED to go through and get everything done!

The way I see it, there's 5 major things that if they fixed, they'd probably have a game that is worthy of 80%-90% scores, rather than the 70% it tends to get:
1) Don't deliberately gimp the controls at the beginning.
2) Fix the brake mechanics. You have to stop waaaay too much in that game, and stopping doesn't work very well.
3) Fix the jumping system. Charged jumping sucks.
4) Add in preset, multiple camera angles.
5) Better level design. Like I said, you stop FAR too often, when most of the time, all you REALLY want to do is just run really fast. There are too many times where you'll be forced to stop by an enemy or a cliff or something because it came up too fast to react to. A lot of those wouldn't be as big an issue if the controls were better, though.
...there's way to much memorizing levels, as a result.
Two of the best levels, IMO, are the one where you have to kill 40 enemies in the Skull Dome and the 60 ring chain level in the dessert stage. They're some of the only levels where you can REALLY work up some speed!
Whenever the sequel hits, I hope they go to a more traditional 'world 1-1, 1-2, 1-3, 1-4' level system...AND keep the side mission set ups, too.

But despite all those flaws, I think it manages to still be a really good game. You actually WANT to keep playing it. Even without the level design faults, it's still old-school difficult. Lots of dying.
heh- honestly, when I hear people complain that it's such a hard game, I'm kinda tempted to say, "Pussy! You'd have never survived in the NES/SNES/Genesis era!" People made me think that about Viewtiful Joe, too.
It's not as good as Zelda, but it's one of the best games out for the Wii right now.

@dukemeiser "Some levels had to be played 10 times to complete the level"

That's the way games used to be - you had to replay each level until you improved your skill enough to complete the levels! But now, too many modern games allow players to advance through and complete the games without truly mastering the game. It's made us soft.

Yeah man, I don't know what you're thinking, but Sonic was pretty good.

It was definitely better than that other one. I mean, sure, it wasn't great, but it was there.

I don't like plugging stuff like this in, but this PA comic from a few years ago is so true. Granted, I haven't rented sonic for Wii yet, but dont have high expectations

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/03/11

"sega really has fallen off the mountain. Pairing their iconic mascot in a kids game where a fat plumber actually has a chance of competing."



AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

My god, that's amusing. You mean to say Sonic is not "kiddie"? Even with the primary colors and the laughable facial features? Must be the guns, then!

No, Sonic is not "iconic" compared to Mario, you little retard. Sonic was a failed attempt to copy Mario's success, and we all know it. Especially the failed part.

You're kidding, right BM?

Sonic has been an icon. In the past, at least. Three different American cartoons (and the more recent Sonic X anime), a few different licensed comic strips (such as the long-running American one by Archie and Fleetway's Sonic the Comic in the UK), a float in the Macy's Thanksgiving Parade, and even a gene officially named after him (Sonic hedgehog homolog).

Oh, and let's not forget that when most people think of Sega, they think of Sonic.


It's just that with a very small apperance on Saturn, and poor performances afterwards, Sonic has really dropped in the public's eye.

But to say Sonic isn't iconic is just silly.

I love it when bm and BPM argue about something. It makes me yearn for a RUPBANG to argue with.

Yeah Sonic is definitely iconic. I just read that he's the 2nd most popular video game character of all time. (Guess who's #1?)

I didn't know Sonic had 3 American cartoons though. So did Mario. Mario just needs some new Mario X anime to catch up now.

sonic just wasnt made for 3D some things just dont work. You'll at least need bullettime. Its just too confusing to have all the speed people want from sonic and the obstacles.

Do I often argue with BM? I just argue with I have evidence to prove a contradiction in someone's testimony.

(Sorry... I've started playing PWAA Justice for All again after putting it on hold for a while... >_>)

Yes. There where three series:
The Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog - a humorous series, where Robotnik was a goofy villian (comparable to Jessie and James of Team Rocket) with goofy sidekicks Scratch, Grounder, and Coconut. Oh, and Sonic crossdressed a lot to confuse the badniks.

Sonic the Hedgehog - A more action-packed series that the other series. Robotnik was serious business here. Archie's Sonic comics was heavily based on this series (Princess Sally and the Freedom Fighters, Robotnik's design and his nephew Snivley, etc. were part of both).

Sonic Underground - This series gave Sonic a family. His brother, Manic, and sister, Sonia, are in an underground band of sorts. Fending off Robotnik's attacks and searching for their missing mother, who was the former ruler of the land (Robotnik now is). Not a lot of people liked this series, though I did. Plus, it was the only of the three series to feature Knuckles. :P

Oh, and addition to the Sonic X anime, there was also a Japanese animated Sonic movie. It featured Sonic, Tails, Knuckles (wearing an awesome hat!), Robotnik, Metal Sonic, and some original characters to the movie.


Oh, there have been some old, and rather obscure Mario anime in the past:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Mario_Bros._%28TV_series%29#Before_DiC

Read the Before DiC section about these obscure anime (excluding the first paragrah about Saturday Supercade, which was an American animation).

I watched all 3 Mario cartoons and one of the Sonic cartoons. I don't remember the name, but it had Jaleel White as Sonic's voice. I could kill a man to find the pre-DiC Mario cartoons from Japan.

And this is the first time I've seen you 2 have the slightest disagreement. I was just laughing at your names.

Here's how to do Sonic:

- 2.5D, bright colours, 1080p, 60fps, left to right scroller
- give it PERFECT controls; stop on a dime, turn on a dime, etc
- controls: run, jump, spin-up .. no freakin' lock on.. Sonic advances in the game with his speed.. hes not a crate stacker
- ditch all those freakin' sidekicks and other NPC (esp. human girlfriend.. wtf)
- ditch any attempts at a storyline... its Sonic Vs. Robotnik; Sonic needs to free trapped buddies.. he just needs an excuse to run fast

Sonic doesnt need re invented just go back to the old game (2d side scroller) and update the graphics a bit by using a 3d engine with a 2d perspective,

"...There's fucking no kissing scene with a human fucking being."

Posted at 9:24PM on Mar 29th 2007 by Frankie

Cursing on forums (or the internet in general) doesn't make you appear tough or cool, just ignorant.

@ KineticOnline
They did this with sonic DS but I don't remember that game to be that good.

Okay here's my take on what Sonic should be. First of all let's trim down the regular game casts a bit and draw some elements from the Sonic The Hedgehog animated series (the one with the post apocalyptic setting and Princess Sally). For one thing we'll take the Dr. Robotnik in that series as oppose to the 360/PS3 StH game.

Control-wise, we'll treat Sonic like he was a car. He should control like the cars in Burnout, Ridge Racer, or the like. He'll have a quick side-step jump too. If he's starting to hit a wall, he'll do a wall run like in Prince of Persia (this isn't a permanent thing, he will decend and fall off unless you correct him to the ground). We'll also have kind of a rear view mirror camera switch (i.e. press the button and you're looking at Sonic from the front). If he starts speeding to mock speeds, the camera will go higher and higher, looking overhead but slightly forward, til you'll only see a small critter with a large trail of dust cloud.

Can we please get fun, fast, and most importantly CONTROLLABLE Sonic back from wherever Sega has been keeping him for the last decade?