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Reader Comments (17)

Posted: Apr 2nd 2007 8:35AM ZenGaijin said

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So a movie about the World Trade Center (an event in which thousands die) and thats a work of art, but a game about a smaller tragedy is made and its offensive?
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Posted: Apr 2nd 2007 8:41AM (Unverified) said

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i think this game is an amazing attempt to further the genre from that of purely entertainment and give it weight enough to be received as a social commentary. unfortunately with any revolution in the way a medium is used, those who don't either agree with it, or take it seriously will denounce it. i am pleased that the genre is finally taking a more serious look at society.
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Posted: Apr 2nd 2007 9:22AM (Unverified) said

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"So a movie about the World Trade Center (an event in which thousands die) and thats a work of art, but a game about a smaller tragedy is made and its offensive?"

I've ranted on this subject in the past so I won't even get into SCMRPG other than saying people easily swallow and believe some pretty heavy bullshit. But find me one person who thought the world trade center movie was art. Even Ebert bashed it. If your only exposure to the film world is going to see the latest Bruckheimer crapfest with your Nascar fan buddies, yeah, it's about as artsy fartsy as your ilk will go. For everyone else though, it was considered a tasteless cash grab.
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Posted: Apr 2nd 2007 9:30AM (Unverified) said

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This is a tricky subject. While people outside of the gaming fandom and industry *do* need to see games in an equal light as movies, TV, etc... there may be a line that shouldn't be crossed. Now I'm not saying that I know the answer, merely giving a perspective.

In other mediums like film, seeing a story based on true events is like watching a documentary, it's to be observed. However, in gaming, it's somewhat different. When you "kill" an NPC character in a game, it's a nameless faceless group of polygons that never existed in the first place. But if you were to create games based on true events (as in the case of SCMRPG), then games stop being harmless escapism and start being virtual life simulators. Or at least, that's the negative stigma attached to it.

I think the big problem is that (uninformed) people think to themselves "what kind of a psychopath wants to relive someone else's atrocities!?". But people also don't understand that the human mind is a curious thing. People love to watch "Saw" gore/horror films, but I bet said viewers don't want to be the victim of a serial killer themselves. We drink in what hasn't happened to use. You're driving down the highway, you see an accident, 9 out of 10 people will slow down and try and get a good look. Why? Because it's happening to someone else. The average person plays/watches/etc these things to see what they're like without *actually* having to experience it.

In truth though, I think that these kind of reality-based games *can* exist, but that there is a time frame that should be observed. People play WWII war sim games all over the world, but the thing is... those events were over half a century ago. By now most of the people who lived through that era are dead and forgotten (no offense to that generation intended). At this point in history, events from so long ago don't quite feel real to our era. We know they happened, but because they didn't happen to *us* it's no different than reading a fictionalized war story.

This is the situation: the columbine massacre (and other recent tragic events) happened only a handful of years ago. It's still real to people, it's still fresh, and that's why people can't handle it. I don't know anyone who fought in WWII, but I bet if I walked down the street I could bump into a parent of one of those kids, or a student from that school. There needs to be a cooling off period, and 8 years isn't enough.

The bottom line: there's a time and a place for movies/shows/games based on tragic events. A grace period is what's needed. A couple of decades is ideal. This would probably be a whole ongoing series for people in the year 2045.

Finally, try and get in the mindset of being a victim of 9/11, or the columbine massacre... it's been (lets says ) 3 years since it happened to you. Now imagine you're going to the movies, or see an advert on TV for a hot new game... based on the tragedy you lived through. That would be horrifying. Ah yes, there's nothing quite like reliving the worst moments of your life in widescreen 1080i.
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Posted: Apr 2nd 2007 9:38AM (Unverified) said

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@1: Exactly. They try to say that movie is done respectfully, yea f'in right. Can't believe theres a Nicolas Cage move about that already.
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Posted: Apr 2nd 2007 9:39AM (Unverified) said

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all i can say is that more people should play that game. i hate the people trying to bash a game that someone worked hard at. its just a game guys. fucking chill out. i just downloaded it right now and i hope that its the right file so i can play it on my psp. its not like this game is gonna stop these 13 kids that died back to life. for real. they died. no really. they're dead.
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Posted: Apr 2nd 2007 10:11AM LaughingTarget said

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While I haven't played it myself (don't have and probably never will have the urge to), what I have not seen discussed was HOW SCMRPG was presented. Did it "reward" the player for committing the crimes or did it discuss the mentally disturbed nature of the two and attempt to show you what was going on through their eyes?

The answer to the "is it wrong" question comes down to the presentation. Even the White Supremecist game above could be a positive title if it properly shows just how screwed in the head those people are.
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Posted: Apr 2nd 2007 10:40AM (Unverified) said

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@4 Champloo:

Your points are good, but if this game were to be published 50 years after Columbine, it isn't really a social commentary anymore. I understand that this game is far more inflammatory, than, say, Bowling for Columbine, but it is essentially the same idea.
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Posted: Apr 2nd 2007 10:47AM (Unverified) said

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Hey, we're on Joystiq... Go Jackets!

The reality of the matter is that people will find the game apalling because they think they're supposed to. It's a form of media no different (okay, well, slightly different) than a documentary about the tragedy that doesn't censor itself, nor does it hold back from viewing the consequences of their actions.

People associate the term 'video game' with the gamut of Mario to GTA, when this form of interactive media could be useful for so many other purposes than raw entertainment.
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Posted: Apr 2nd 2007 11:46AM hotpuck6 said

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the simple reality is, there are a large handful of people who never want to deal with anything uncomfortable, even if they need to, to understand it.
people also still don't take video games seriously enough, they don't associate emotions, they don't consider it quality enough to tackle such subjects.
I think the fact that this was made with RPG maker helped force people to deal with the topic, and not focus on the graphical violence, which was an important step towards taking games more serious.
While things like hyper bloody saving private ryan were ok because they were trying to set the mood and mimic what war is, games just aren't there yet without being viewed as murder simulators.
First we need people to stop and think of the topic, look at the theme, and then judge it, rather than just judge it from blood spattered Screen cap after then next.
one day games will be accepted, but sadly it seems the people who didn't grow up accepting them is eclipsed by those who don't understand, tolerate, or are willing to take that first step out of their ignorant tunnel vision.
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Posted: Apr 2nd 2007 1:20PM (Unverified) said

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I've said it before and I will say it again: if you want to address the Columbine murders in a videogame and want to be taken seriously, you cannot name it "Super Columbine Massacre". This whole situation would be different if they had not given the game such an incredible inflammatory and ridiculous name. People have brought up the movie "World Trade Center" and the debate about whether or not it's art is immaterial. Would that project have made any money or even been given the green light for production if it had been called "Super World Trade Center Explosion"?

People are not taking the game seriously because the designers gave it a stupid name in an effort to maximize its exposure.
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Posted: Apr 2nd 2007 3:25PM (Unverified) said

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to #11 S_DOG34

And yet Snakes on a Plane did quite well. Maybe it's the content that is more important, perhaps?

But on a more serious note, the game is named that way for a reason, just like why it's a game instead of a movie, to begin with. The murderers treated it (the massacare) like a game, but if it was a game, the mechanics is absolutely horrible, as emulated by the game (SCMRPG) itself. Similarly, the game is named to sound "awesome", when you know it isn't. The name itself is a commentary to begin with.
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Posted: Apr 2nd 2007 6:19PM (Unverified) said

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@ fffunfarm06---xbl

"all i can say is that more people should play that game. i hate the people trying to bash a game that someone worked hard at. its just a game guys. fucking chill out. i just downloaded it right now and i hope that its the right file so i can play it on my psp. its not like this game is gonna stop these 13 kids that died back to life. for real. they died. no really. they're dead."

Well, aren't you a naive and heartless bastard. Just a game? Just a game that happens to depict a cold and senseless massacre. This isn't a form of art or escapism. These are jackasses trying to get attention and make a name for themselves for stirring up controversy. And anyone that says otherwise needs their head examined because they've obviously lost touch with reality.

World War 2 games aren't even comparable. They depict heroes in key events telling our worlds history while giving you a chance to experience what our brave young men and women endure to give your sorry ass the very freedoms you enjoy today.

What possible good is going to come out of making a game based on one of the most brutal and inhuman acts ever recorded at a public school. F-ck curiosity. There is a point in where lines "have" to be draw. And F-ck you people that promote this kind of senseless trash. What kind of message are you trying to send.. that we should live in a world were there are no bounds including good taste?

And why do you think movies like World Trade Center get made? Because people don't have the good sense to not buy into the product and say, "we don't want you feeding us this garbage." It hits too close to home.

We are not just talking about a game. We're talking about bullsh-t excuses that morons who walk this Earth find to try to justify their rights under the first ammendment. I'm sure that's way our founding father wrote it so long ago... so that JOE NOBODY could make is name in the news.

Get a clue people. Use your common sense. There is nothing tricky about this topic at all. If you can't see through the B.S. then maybe you need to endure a tragic event in your life to knock some sense back into you. Fiction is one thing, and while I don't agree or support all games made.. this isn't the same thing. This is tasteless garbage trying to make a buck.
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Posted: Apr 2nd 2007 6:31PM (Unverified) said

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Wow. Are people really this stupid?

"So a movie about the World Trade Center (an event in which thousands die) and thats a work of art, but a game about a smaller tragedy is made and its offensive?"

Ok, was the movie about the World Trade Center praising the terrorists for what they did? No? Ok then, there's a difference. This game clearly praises two little punks (I can think of much worse words to describe the poor excuses of human beings) who selfishly murdered other students in cold-blood. There is most definitely a complete lack of morals today, and it seems that most people are more convinced that evil=good and good=evil; this is a fantastic example of that.

Why not create a game with atheists killing Christians (or vice-versa), Nazis killing Jews, homosexuals killing heterosexuals (or vice-versa), or Jack Thompson killing video gamers? Seriously: Give me a break. If any of you can praise garbage such as a Columbine RPG, I really despise you and question if you're human (and if you are, you're either insane or deranged).
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Posted: Apr 2nd 2007 7:48PM (Unverified) said

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"And yet Snakes on a Plane did quite well. Maybe it's the content that is more important, perhaps?"

*sigh*. Snakes on a Plane was MEANT to be stupidly named over-the-top camp that should not be taken seriously. SCM is supposed to be "art" that "deals with serious issues" yet has a preposterously inflammatory and ridiculous name. In this thread and threads in the past posters have been whining about how the game should be taken seriously. So which is it...to be taken seriously or over-the-top camp not to be taken seriously?

Also, I would really like to see you qualify how Snakes on a Plane "did quite well". The movie grossed $34 million domestically and cost $33 million to produce. Next time try doing a little research before mouth off.

"The murderers treated it (the massacare) like a game"

And you know this how? Did you have a chat with them during the planning phases of the event?

"Similarly, the game is named to sound "awesome", when you know it isn't."

Huh?

"The name itself is a commentary to begin with."

No, the name itself is meant to be controversial in order to gain maximum exposure for their "game". It worked in terms of generating exposure but now the creators will bear a scarlet letter wherever they go.
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Posted: Apr 2nd 2007 10:14PM (Unverified) said

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@anonymous rant, so it's OK to play WW2 games because you're playing as heroes who are killing bad guys, right? So if it's only OK to kill bad guys, why is GTA OK but SCMRPG is not? Where do you draw the line?
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Posted: Apr 2nd 2007 10:22PM (Unverified) said

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@S_DOG34, By the end of its theaterical run, Snakes on a Plane generated approximately $59,377,419 worldwide. While this might make it a "bomb" by some standards, that's $26 million profit off a wacky nutjob movie, and they could easily make a sequel or a video game now. I'm sure the DVD's fattening their wallets too.

And if this game didn't have a ridiculous name, I would never have heard of it and we wouldn't be having these important debates.
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