Xbox 360 Elite uses HDMI 1.2; no support for Dolby TrueHD
The Xbox 360 Elite will ship with HDMI version 1.2, as opposed to the latest version 1.3. What do you lose with such a monstrous degradation? HDMI 1.3 adds support for Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio streams; this can be accomplished in HDMI 1.2 if the player can decode these streams into uncompressed audio, but unfortunately neither the Xbox 360 nor HD DVD add-on support it. (For reference, the PlayStation 3 was the first device to use HDMI 1.3.)
Other differences include audio / lip sync technology, a greater transfer speed -- which would matter if you were outputting above 1080p, but that is currently the maximum resolution -- and Deep Color, which again will be more distinguishable in future resolutions.
For now, the only major disparity will be the audio. Does this affect anyone's decision to purchase the Elite?
[Via Xbox 360 Fanboy]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
the_insider @ Apr 2nd 2007 7:30PM
HDMI = bleerrrgh!
konajinx @ Apr 2nd 2007 7:31PM
Just one more reason I'm glad I couldn't care less about the whole HD thing and still play my games and watch my movies on one of those lowly "old fashioned" 27 inch TV sets.
Tom @ Apr 2nd 2007 7:35PM
This matters next to zero for me.So no, this doesnt afect my purchase.What IS keeping me from preoredering is that rumor that those of us with a premium system will get some kind of brake on the price.I would have already preordered if it wasnt for this,now I have to wait for offical word from MS on this
SonicRift @ Apr 2nd 2007 7:37PM
So if I plug it into my TV, does sound come out?
I'm pretty sure mine does that already...
TheHostileDwarf @ Apr 2nd 2007 7:37PM
This thread will end badly.
I'll get this part out of the way real quick.
#1 - "The XBox 360 Elite is sooooo gay."
#2 - "What exact part of the Elite is homosexual, you asshole? /nothing better to get pissed off about"
#1 - "I can say 'gay' too! LOL!!!11eleven"
#2 - "BUSH IS EVIL! He's evil! Don't say 'gay'! It hurts my feelings!"
#1 - "My gay friends say 'gay' all the time."
...
ValdeZ Poole @ Apr 2nd 2007 7:39PM
Its TrueHD and DTS-HD passthrough that capable with 1.3.. i.e passthrough to a digital receiver that accepts those codecs; of which there are less than a handful.
also, if (IF) your HD-DVD movie disc has those codecs, they can still be downsampled to 5.1 and outputted through optical.
As for Deep Colour, you need a TV that supports it.
In summary, no big wup.
Christian @ Apr 2nd 2007 7:40PM
Seriously, probably around only 1% of those out there actually have a system that:
1. Supports Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio streams
2. Speakers that are of such high quality that someone can hear the difference
I could really care less about v1.2 versus v1.3. Besides, is there really such a great difference between HDMI and component. I mean, when you walk into say a Best Buy and look at an HDTV can you honestly say, "Yep, that's a component connection they've got set-up there." I'm still trying to figure out what everyone is so hung up about. Can anyone help me.
P.S. I've spent too many hours in front of HDTV's and I've found that the way the image is constructed (DLP, LCD, Plasma, etc.) is far more important than even the difference between 720p to 1080p.
blowstiq @ Apr 2nd 2007 7:40PM
No reason to worry here. I'm sure Microsoft is already hard at work on the "Xtreme" edition, and maybe it'll have a full digital signal path and a blu-ray player built in - heck, maybe even WiFi.
Certainly, all the same fans who are going to snatch up the Elite will be only too happy to buy the Xtreme in a few months time. You've gotta hand it to Microsoft: release mediocre product and sucker customers into a never ending cycle of "upgrades"; a business plan that's already let them amass a huge fortune.
Manos @ Apr 2nd 2007 7:40PM
Just to clarify. Deep colour is of no interest when it comes to HD movies since the movie has to have been specifically encoded with deep colour in mind.
Additionally, the fact that the Xbox 360 cannot transcode lossless audio formats to uncompressed PCM has nothing to do with the drive. The drive is a passive reader. It has everything to do though the width of the bus connecting the CPU and the audio I/O chip of the console.
And no I won't be buying it. I would only be interested if it sported and HDMI 1.3 output. I hoped it would so I would not have to spend more on a stand alone player.
As things stand, the Elite is only interesting to those with two few or no analog video TV inputs.
A few more things. It's version 1.2a and the reason why Microsoft was not able to add 1.3 at this time is the fact that they 're HDMI "supporters", not HDMI "founders". The latter actually design the standard and get first picks. This explains why Sony got it months ago.
losttoys @ Apr 2nd 2007 7:48PM
@Christian:
Future wise, HDMI 1.3 will start become a larger part of the audio and video world. Dolby Digital TrueHD and DTS HD will be supported in receiver decoded form later this year. From a future perspective, this is a let down if you plan on using the HD-DVD addon as your primary means of HD-DVD support.
Daniel @ Apr 2nd 2007 7:48PM
I'm not planning on getting the elite.
1920x1080 looks just fine on VGA, and I don't have anything with HDMI in. No loss for me.
If I was planning on getting the HD-DVD drive, I might consider it.
That would cost way too much, though.
Plus, all HD movies I watch are played from my PC, un-drm'd ;)
The big drive seems nice. I wish the 360 could use a usb drive like the internal drive.
Xbox fan @ Apr 2nd 2007 7:50PM
All I care about is that the RROD issues are resolved in a hurry. Solve this problem and the masses will follow. More people care about the software they can feed their console than they do about redefining their HD Entertainment Center set-up. Let the next console war battle this out in 5 years. Just give up compelling titles today.
GJM @ Apr 2nd 2007 7:51PM
"1.3.. i.e passthrough to a digital receiver that accepts those codecs; of which there are less than a handful."
There are currently ZERO receivers that handle HDMI 1.3 and the codecs that go along with it. If all stays on schedule, they will start to ship in June/July. I'm sure those of you willing to spend a minimum of $2000 on a receiver and a minimum of $3000+ in speakers to hear the difference will be greatly outweighed by those who will complain that there is no HDMI 1.3. Anyone want to buy my AVR-4802?
aegies @ Apr 2nd 2007 8:01PM
This actually made my decision not to buy one. It was the main reason I was interested in the HDMI output in the first place, and audio is the only thing HDMI has a leg up on over DVI or VGA or optical. I guess it means I save myself money. And the reason the 360 doesn't support the spec and never will is a lack of bandwidth in the audio bus. Any new hardware iteration would be excessively costly and would threaten compatibility with previous hardware revisions.
http://eat-sleep-game.com/news
GJM @ Apr 2nd 2007 8:04PM
"audio is the only thing HDMI has a leg up on over DVI or VGA or optical"
The only thing not including one cable instead of 2 to 6 and higher bandwith for increased sound quality, deep color, etc...
Mike @ Apr 2nd 2007 8:13PM
it changes my mind. Not that it cannot pass TrueHD (at the moment there are not any receivers that can decode TrueHD). The simple fact that the so-called elite cannot stream 5.1 or 7.1 channel pcm kills it. The thing will only do 2-channel.
That is disappointing, why add hdmi and only do the video side and dismiss the audio side? if you are planning (like I was) on getting the hd-dvd drive, it then becomes a crippled device.
Doesn't seem very elite to me...
aegies @ Apr 2nd 2007 8:34PM
GJM,
The one cable instead of 2 (which is what I run now; a VGA cable into my HDTV and an optical connection into my 5.1 setup) thing isn't something that most consumers will benefit from. Deep color is something a high definition DVD has to be encoded for and that a TV has to support, and it's something that almost no one will ever use. Picture quality differences between a good VGA connection and HDMI are negligible if anything, whereas the difference in bitrate possible from optical/coaxial spdif interfaces vs. HDMI are noticeable and are a hard fact (as bitrate is a number, afterall). Out of these things, the only one that would make me consider spending an excessively higher amount of money on a receiver and a console would be the audio. And I'm in the minority being willing to do even that. So because the 360 can't output that kind of signal, buying an Elite seems kind of pointless to me.
http://eat-sleep-game.com/news
Sonic_extreme @ Apr 2nd 2007 8:35PM
Is everyone mad that electronics change things that it doesn't even make sense sometimes. DTS is better than dolby but man I've only seen a few movies that have it. Then came DOlby ex and DTS ES. Still no one cared. Now we have True dolby or True DTS. O.k Now you need HDMI 1.3 but if you loop a 1.3 version to a receiver whith 1.3 then to a HDTV with 1.1 or 1.2 you get only 1.1 or 1.2 not 1.3 thus you need to get a HDTV with 1.3 also. I was fine without 1.1 or 1.2 and I sure as hell will be fine now that 1.3 is out. What is next "1.4 the Real Deal" coming soon to a HDMI near you.
Jeff @ Apr 2nd 2007 8:42PM
'I could really care less about v1.2 versus v1.3. Besides, is there really such a great difference between HDMI and component. I mean, when you walk into say a Best Buy and look at an HDTV can you honestly say, "Yep, that's a component connection they've got set-up there."'
I think almost anyone can tell the difference between component and HDMI in a store. You've never heard the adage that you can't judge a TV by what you see in a retail showroom? Part of the reason is the split analog signals that degrade the signal pretty drastically. That doesn't happen with HDMI.
Anyone who has an HDTV will tell you that they've never seen an HDTV of any price level at any store that looks as good as the one they own. That's not because their TV is the best in the world, it's because they've actually hooked it up and set it up properly, which stores don't. That's true of both component and HDMI connections, but the point is you probably have never even *seen* a TV connected via HDMI if you're only judging by what you've seen in Best Buy. (I'm not sure about their "Magnolia" stores, which do seem to have some better setups.)
When I got my latest HDTV - the first I've owned with HDMI - the first thing I did was connect it via both component and HDMI to the same source (the cable box) to test it. I *immediately* saw the difference. I did need to adjust contrast and brightness on the HDMI connection, but once I did the picture was dead-on accurate and giving me a full 1920x1080 effective resolution (tested using the HDNet test patterns). Component had better contrast out of the box, but the colors were way off and nothing I did could fix them, and the picture had a pasty, grainy look. During movement, it was like some pixels moved at a different speed than others - I wonder if this is why some see motion blur on LCD's whose response times dictate that they shouldn't. I don't see this at all on HDMI. Also, I did not get a full 1920x1080 resolution with component - it was more like 1500 lines or so.
So, is there a difference? Yes, there's a difference. Component is an analog connection, whereas the HDTV signal, the Xbox 360 signal and any optical disc movie player signal is digital. Why *wouldn't* you use a digital connection?
"The simple fact that the so-called elite cannot stream 5.1 or 7.1 channel pcm kills it. The thing will only do 2-channel."
That would kill it for me also. 1.3 vs. 1.2 is not a big deal right now, but are you kidding me with no 5.1? What century is this?
kris @ Apr 2nd 2007 8:47PM
This sucks! Microsoft tries to out do Sony, but still uses old technology. I wanted to get an HDMI 1.3 tv soon when they come out, and common atleast add dolby true hd! Please! THE HDMI thing I could deal with, but after listening to dolby true hd 7.1 on my neighbours ps3, I can't go back to the normal thing. If sony makes more 20gb im going to buy that, instead of this.
LongshotX @ Apr 2nd 2007 8:49PM
The Elite comes with an Audio adapter so you can use Optical or RCA and get your 5.1 and 7.1 HD Surround Sound. Why would you want the audio through HDMI going to your TV? So you could hear the explosions in Gears of War on 17W Speakers? I don't think so. I think they realized that if you were going to shell out that much money on a console you probably had a decent sound system connected to your HDTV.
Artemio @ Apr 2nd 2007 8:50PM
It is a shame that it cannot support PCM over HDMI, since it would place it just right there with the stand alone players.
One thing that you usually seek when you buy a piece of equipment or software is to get the most out of it, and with movies audio is a big part of the effect. With the current 640+ kbps DD or with the expected DTS @1.5 mbps you are still loosing on more than half the quality when the movie is encoded with True HD.
Sure enough, only those with HDMI receivers that accept will care. And for us that care there is the option of a stand alone player wich offers that quality via analog outs or HDMI. But then, why bother to place HDMI just as a bullet point? Just to have that bullet point removed when checked against the PS3 since the layman won't care?
ZeroCorpse @ Apr 2nd 2007 8:56PM
Wow. Elitist pricks have found a niche.
Seriously, do you have such small penises that you have to get all your bang from having such a whiz-bang, my-system's-better-than-your-system entertainment center?
Dude, just shut the f up and play the game. It's no wonder you audiophiles and videophiles suck at games (and you do) -- You're spending all your time tweaking the color, sound, angle, and adjusting for wind speed, probably, instead of playing the game and enjoying it for what it is.
Please, stay away from the Wii. It doesn't support Sony-Toshiba Super-Duper Make Your Ass Explode VidAudio 4.2.1 in 3D!!!
Losers. You make the rest of us geeks look bad.
JohnnySoprano @ Apr 2nd 2007 9:12PM
But does TrueHD audio work through optical cable? Because the Elite model also ships with a dongle that lets you use the standard Left and Right RCA cables, as well as optical.
I'm admittedly NOT an audiophile and don't know jack about this stuff frankly, but if it works with optical, this may not be such a big deal at all.
Christopher7xii @ Apr 2nd 2007 9:13PM
"23. Wow. Elitist pricks have found a niche."
Pot? Kettle. Kettle, pot.
Seriously ZeroCorpse... You *DO* realize that different people enjoy things different than the way you do, right? Personally I play games to immerse myself in a world that isn't reality, to let go for awhile. Your small penis theory holds more leverage over yourself than the people describe. You're assuming because you're better at games, your opinion matters or holds more ground. You just happen to get your kicks off of beating others or the game, quick to finish and grab all the goodies and be done with it. I imagine you've got a 15,000+ gamer score, am I right? Anyways, don't go getting all pissy just because someone enjoys something that you don't. I play games pretty damn well, could rock a ton of people at Guitar Hero, Gears of War, Worms, Street Fighter, or Splinter Cell: DA... I also sat there for about 4 hours configuring my TV one day, deciding which way I wanted to hook up my consoles. Which was to go VGA, should I get an HDMI to DVI converter for my PC? Does the Wii composite really look that bad compared to the component? Should I use my VGA slot for my 360 or my PC? Is upscaling that important for me not to use the component cables? After figuring all that out, went ahead and configured the color / DNIe settings on all my inputs, game modes and so on and so forth.
Does anyone but me care? No. But I do, I enjoy not looking at my game and thinking "this could look better". It's fun to be the best for you, for others its fun to HAVE the best. Grow up and realize not everyone in the world has the same goals as you.
LongshotX @ Apr 2nd 2007 9:21PM
@All the misinformed Elitist and the informed JohnnySoprano
The Xbox 360 Elite comes with a damn dongle for Optical Audio and it also has two RCA inputs. Why the fuck would you want to output your sound through HDMI? Someone in here please tell me!
NeverSage @ Apr 2nd 2007 9:23PM
"You're spending all your time tweaking the color, sound, angle, and adjusting for wind speed"
LOL
why not the LS2LS7? @ Apr 2nd 2007 9:24PM
To those pointing out no receivers support TrueHD passthrough anyway, that isn't really the point.
The Elite 360 doesn't do multi-channel PCM, nor can it pass TrueHD out. So that means that there is no way to get anything better than DD or DTS out of the Elite.
Whereas on the PS3, as long as your amp supports multichannel PCM, the PS3 can decode these formats internal and output them as PCM to your amp. And there are amps that support multichannel PCM, and the price of these is dropping quickly.
And that's kind of the point here. You may not have an amp today that supports multichannel PCM audio over HDMI. But you might tomorrow. If you can get a device today (like a PS3, or perhaps a further revised 360) that can output multichannel PCM, then later if you get an amp that supports it, you are all set, instead of still being one component short of having it.
HDMI will matter more and more as time goes on.
LongshotX and others, you connect your PS3/360 to your amp with HDMI and then hook the amp to the TV. Your amp switches the video and the audio and supports good 5.1 and 7.1 so you don't have to use your TV for it. If that doesn't work for you, you can get an HDMI splitter that will separate the audio and video before passing it to your amp.
Manos, the 1.3 spec is available to everyone. Even you. MS did this to save on cost on their device, and given how low the market penetration of the HD-DVD add-on is they probably made the right move.
Neccy @ Apr 2nd 2007 9:25PM
Not going to buy it, don't even have a HD TV set and so I dont need it.
However I do feel that Microsoft have done something silly here, I mean if your going to name the console ELITE to go up against the ps3, you should really equip it with 1.3
LaughingTarget @ Apr 2nd 2007 9:31PM
Jeff -
The Magnolia stores are set up well, they have individual HD-DVD and Blu-Ray sets plugged into their sets without splitting or all that other nonsense.
As for component vs HDMI, it takes a certain level of visual ability with the individual. For the average person, they'll be hard pressed to see the difference. There is a difference, they'll still see it, but they'll have to be pointed to them, yet they'll see them as relatively minor. Now, VGA is a different story, even if you try to point out the differences to the average person, they won't notice it.
Also, digital isn't better. Digital is and always will be inferior to analog ... in potential. The old LPs have far more audio detail than these so-called TrueHD audio formats and they've been around for a century. The only thing that held them back was the output system; needle + the fact they were on LPs that quickly deteriorated. Remove the physical contact and you're going to have something a digital system will never touch. Digital has the advantage in signal, lack of physical connection that destroys the data and source clarity. If we can hard-encode an analog-like system into a HD-DVD or BluRay, it'll blow digital out of the water, audio and video. Kinda why I'm looking forward to quantum processing and storage solutions, gets closer to the analog solution. However, the concept that the typical person can tell the difference is the kicker.
HDMI may be better, but when compared to component or VGA, two relatively ancient technologies, the difference is not apparent to the mass market and there is a significant population (like myself) that can tell the difference but doesn't feel it is major enough to warrant the additional cost. No argument available, HDMI is more expensive than component and VGA. When HDMI is just as much as a VGA option, I'll probably make the switch when the current VGA capable units are no longer functioning.
It is not about being better, it is about how much better is it really. HDMI is not that much better, the increment is too small for all but the high-end enthusiast to get excited about.
Evan @ Apr 2nd 2007 9:32PM
The features mentioned ("Deep Color" and the audio streams) are *OPTIONAL* parts of the 1.3 spec, meaning not all "HDMI v1.3" hardware even supports those features!
Rubang B @ Apr 2nd 2007 9:35PM
Haha, look at TheHostileDwarf go! Totally off-topic, totally trolling, and totally wrong in everything he says!
I'm just sick of all the names for these things like TrueHD. I think that for the people who care about this, the snazzy names aren't necessary. The technology speaks for itself. The name isn't going to talk some lo-tech bum like me into paying for it. I'm sure Microsoft will get to HDMI 1.3 eventually, and then Sony will issue another press release welcoming them to the REAL next gen, which is now all about audio.
umm...hello?? @ Apr 2nd 2007 9:44PM
no, I wasn't going to rebuy a 360, which I primarily bought for laziness' sake (remote turn on/off via wireless controller FTW!!).
Component cables output 720p and 1080i, which is the max input on my sony sxrd-60" screen (which automatically upscales everything to 1080P onscreen). I tried out the HD-DVD player and KingKong looks EXACTLY the same via USB/Component (because that's how the DVD drive hooks up to your 360...USB) or HDMI inputs (also tried out Toshiba's HD-DVD newest player for HDMI cable input comparison). and I will say it looks pretty damn sweet and MUCH better than most BluRay titles that I've rented for my PS3 (which made them that much harder to return to BestBuy after demoing them for a week).
why? my 360 (launch) works perfectly fine. by the time a receiver comes out that is capable of processing the sound adequately AND is reasonably priced ($1000 or less), XboxNext will have launched with HDMI v2.xx and Deep Color HDTVs (which aren't on the market yet either).
the ONLY reason would be for a larger harddrive, but since I use my 360 for games only (silly me), I seem to have plenty of extra storage space left. I stream music via usb port from my ipod, and pictures view nicely from my SD memory sticks that can be inserted into my PS3 or Wii.
@19 sure, there's SOME difference, but most people won't be able to tell--hell, they just had an article the other month in the Chicago Tribune that up to HALF THE OWNERS OF HDTV ARE MISTAKENLY VIEWING SDTV INPUTS THINKING THEY'RE VIEWING HDTV!!!! why?? because the DIGITAL CHANNELS are different than what they'd be normally for HD-Cable. (Ex- NBC is Channel 5 ON channel 5 here in Chicago, but HDTV NBC is 100.5 (or some variant))
@19 AND @20
regarding sound, most receivers don't even take HDMI input, so again, just use the optical out to your receiver and *bam* there's your 5.1 sound.
you want 7.1 sound? maybe you have a Denon receiver with HDMI inputs then (AND you're still in the dark ages because don't you know 9.1 sound is the newest thing (seriously)), but how many of the MILLIONS of people that had their mommies buy them a 360 do you think have a true audiophile setup?
poor @20 has to go to the Joneses because they're the sh!t l33t WOOT!!!! don't worry, maybe your parents will leave you with some money in their inheritance, because I can tell you that your neighbors probably dropped some nice cash on their SPEAKERS which sound kickass compared to your mono-output 17" black&white tv. (although 7.1 DOES sound nicer than 5.1 with the right setup even with small satellite speakers).
ps- @20, tell your neighbors to set their speakers to "small" for their surround sound setup, even if they have large floorstanding speakers for the main left and right channels. this will put all the burden of the bass on their mono or dualsubwoofer setup, freeing up the mains to power other effects (especially if they're powered subs and not passive subs).
/end ultimate b!tch beatdown
Edge of Blade @ Apr 2nd 2007 10:24PM
Whoopty....f-ing....doo! What are you going to want in high def next? Smell? I'm sorry Xbox 720 Razor Edge Edition won't feature OliFactor X 7.2.5 with the 1.23 inch cartridge, the 5 mm spray nozzle, and the helmet mount.
Ya, future sounds pretty stupid doesn't it. What would you have thought 10 years ago if you knew you would be arguing over this?
Luke @ Apr 2nd 2007 10:30PM
For crying out loud I don't even have s-video on my t.v.
dsub @ Apr 3rd 2007 12:32AM
In my opinion, HDMI Video isn't any more necessary than HDMI audio.
You people that are pointing the inability to support Dolby TrueHD are fucking tools. Fanboys of the highest caliber. Do you even know what Dolby TrueHD is? Let alone what it actually takes to support the damn feature? Here's a link to Denon's TOP OF THE LINE reciever at Crutchfield.com. It sells for $7200 and NOT EVEN IT supports Dolby TrueHD.
I think that is all that needs to be said. Complaining that the 360 can't do Dolby TrueHD is just ridiculous. Save something for the next gen. I'll tell you what. If ONE person can address this comment with PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE that they have a system capable of supporting Dolby TrueHD, I will shave my head and provide video/photo evidence. I'm serious. Let's see it. Come on Sony fanboy's/XBOX haters. Let's see what you've got.
You go on and on about how this is "such a weakness" put your money where your mouth is.
Silent Xenocide @ Apr 3rd 2007 12:41AM
I'm getting the 360 Elite simply because it is black so no this does not affect my purchase.
Goldspire @ Apr 3rd 2007 12:46AM
I will buy whatever version of the 360 is the top of the line when I'm able to afford one.. school sure makes you broke. Personally, I'm not concerned over the difference in HDMI, chances are I'd never even use it. I have decent 5.1 speakers in my Logitech Z5500's, and I would be inclined to use the VGA output from the 360. My speakers have served me pretty well with my original Xbox so far, so I'm not about to drop money on new ones when I can't afford the 360 itself. Fact is, I'll invest in a quality audiophile setup when I feel the time is right, and when that time comes I will also get a stand-alone player. If I wanted a multimedia entertainment machine, I'd buy a PS3.. but I want to play games...
Negativecool @ Apr 3rd 2007 12:59AM
I have a big problem with those saying that HDMI and HD in general doesn't matter for a couple reasons.
1. That’s like some fool ass old man in 1951 (when color TV was introduced in the US) saying he doesn't need color in his frickin TV and it would be stupid to pay any money for it. Technology CONSTANTLY evolves, and in doing so CONSTANTLY gets better. If everyone were a bunch of tools like you sitting by your 13" SD CRT from 20 years ago, we wouldn't have HD-TV because nobody would want it. Believe it or not kids, your money, the economy, rampant consumerism, and spending power all fuel advances in technology---If WE the consumer spend in a certain way indicating we want HDTV’s and other products to include HDMI 1.3 and beyond, then tech companies will deliver in order to profit....which is a nice transition to my next point.
2. Microsoft's original design for its SKU's had NO HDMI. But wait! The PS3's got it! So everyone asks "hey Microsoft, where's the HDMI love?" To which Microsoft replies with something to the affect of "we will be watching the market closely, and will discuss including HDMI if the market indicates that consumers want HDMI.." Guess what happened folks, they deliver you HDMI now, so logic tells you, THE MARKET WANTS HDMI!
If Microsoft puts their ass on the line with this ridiculous 3rd SKU including HDMI because word on the street was everyone wanted HDMI, then you damn well better believe HDMI does matter, now and in the future.
End Rant!
Finess @ Apr 3rd 2007 1:29AM
37 said it best i'm getting it because it's black. The Wii needs to follow suit.
Spartacus @ Apr 3rd 2007 2:36AM
It is interesting to see just how fickle joystiq readers are. Here's a link to the joystiq article that announces HDMI 1.3 on the PS3:
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/06/23/playstation-3-first-to-support-hdmi-1-3/
The comments are pretty much of this flavor:
"Who cares?"
"It's not needed."
"1.2 was more than enough bandwidth for the PS3."
"No one will be able to take advantage of this."
"You don't need a 5 lane highway to handle traffic in a town with a population of 100."
NOW, almost a year later, a receiver STILL isn't available that handles the audio specs called for by HDMI 1.3, most HIGH END HDTV's don't support the spec, but here we (and by "we" and mean "you") are griping that a $480 CONSOLE doesn't support these elitist features. This is even more crazy when you realize that GAMES do not utilize ANY of HDMI 1.3's specs. Games struggle to push even 1080p resolutions and lossless audio features are aimed squarely at HD movies. Why are we upset a game console isn't doubling as a top-of-the-line HD movie player, especially when such products cost 2-3x as much as the 360 and even then may not support such features?
Truth is, if you are the type that can't live without lossless audio, you have a home theatre setup that cost more than a mid-sized sedan and therefore dropping a couple grand on a standalone player that DOES support the new fangled 1.3 specs won't faze you. You also won't mind upgrading your receiver, amps, splitters and your 70" plasma display that you bought 6 months ago that are "only" HDMI 1.2.
Seriously, this arguement is pathetic. MS included an HDMI option for the 360 purely for 1080p video as not many HDTV's support that resolution through component or VGA. The audio was a non issue as games don't support anything higher than DD 5.1. The 360 is a game console first and a decent movie player second, Sony should learn from this philosophy before the PS3 becomes the PSP. The only gripe I have is MS's pricing and segmentation of their user group. Consoles should NOT have even 2 configurations, let alone 3...
Tony @ Apr 3rd 2007 3:16AM
Anyone remember the 'noone runs 1080p' and 'noone uses HDMI' arguments from around the PS3's first E3 showing?
So, carrying on with that tradition: 'Noone needs HDMI 1.3.'
:)
yedips @ Apr 3rd 2007 3:21AM
This article emphasized the wrong points made by the insider when he revealed more info about the Elite's HDMI. TrueHD, DTS-HD, and 1.3 are obviously not widely supported yet and aren't really an issue atm... The main thing most people are disappointed about is the fact that the Elite won't support 5.1 PCM audio, a feature that that pretty much every receiver with HDMI input has had the capability to decode for a long while now. It just seems like a rather half-assed implementation of HDMI output.
Burnt Meatloaf @ Apr 3rd 2007 3:48AM
You know, maybe they should've just made one HDMI spec in the first place.
I can't stand this "upgrade every month" nonsense. PCs have done this for years, why not every device in your house?
Rubang B @ Apr 3rd 2007 5:04AM
I just upgraded my toaster to HDMI 1.3. Now I can hear the toasting without any loss in quality. It's totally uncompressed and has more bandwidth than my old and busted microwave. I've already had that crap for 2 weeks!
::cues up "It's All About the Pentiums"::
Wii360dsPC @ Apr 3rd 2007 6:59AM
AppleTV uses HDMI 1.2 as well. So this is hardly trailing edge stuff.
HDMI 1.2/1.3 differences will be meaningless for the majority of consumers. In 5 years, maybe it will matter. At the moment, it's just fanboy fodder.
JET @ Apr 3rd 2007 8:20AM
#36:
I will not watch a movie at home that lacks a lossless audio soundtrack. That's why I sold off my 360 HD-DVD add-on drive in the first place and watch Blu-ray exclusively. BTW, I don't have a $7000 receiver. I have an Onkyo 674 that I bought at Circuit City for $449. PS3 sends Dolby TrueHD out to it as PCM and it sounds ungodly. Listening to Nine Inch Nails at 5Mbps instead of 640kbps is like popping out the earplugs you didn't know you were wearing.
So Microsoft will release a console that - if you trick it out with a HD-DVD drive, LIVE, and a wireless card - costs $829 and still lacks features compared to the vastly less expensive PS3. This is a very odd strategy.
JET
baby sea tuna @ Apr 3rd 2007 8:45AM
@47
"I will not watch a movie at home that lacks a lossless audio soundtrack. That's why I blah, blah, blah..."
So what happens when your girlfriend wants you to watch a video on her 21" TV/DVD combo unit? Oh wait, that's probably not an issue for you, is it?
Neal @ Apr 3rd 2007 8:54AM
While this isn't aproblem for me at the moment (I don't even have an origional 360) I still think it sucks. Assuming these consoles last 5-6 years, which they should, I would think a lot of recievers have this technology in that time.
People forget that Sound Quality is equally important as Video quality. You wouln't watch a movie that didn't have sound, just like you wouldn't watch one without video.
Personally, Im not much of a gamer anymore. I thought i was, but Im not. I just don't have the time. So, I simply don't care about this at all.
To be fair though, I know that there are lots of people out there that are, and to me it seems unfair to not include it. PS3 equipped its system for the future, and it will be prepaired.
KaneRobot @ Apr 3rd 2007 9:06AM
Hol-ee shit. I was NOT expecting this news.
I know it only affects "1% of gamers" or whatever, but that's not the point - those high-end, must-have-the-newest-everything 1% are the kind of people MS is banking on to pick this thing up.
Really pathetic. I wasn't going to buy it at 480 bucks anyway, but now I think I'll be just fine with my current 360 even when the price on the Elite drops.
So, how long before MS begins the "you don't need 1.3, that's a myth" nonsense? Actually, I hope they do that - that'll indicated that a console with the 1.3 spec will be coming out in 12 months.