Study: Educational software doesn't work

From the animals you killed you got 8,475 lbs of meat. However, you are only able to carry 200lbs back to the wagon...



F*CK!

I bet educational video games will keep kid's attentions far more than a good teacher.

Bullcrap.

I lernd to spel with the help of Spellicopter. That gam ownd.

Ahhh Oregon Trail, thanks for the typhoid.

When I was very young, I wasn't all that good at math, then I played this video game with aliens coming at your space ship all around you at fast speeds, and the only way to kill them was to solve the multiplication problem on the alien, then a beam would fire at it and kill it. Some moved faster than others and their actions were random, so the game forced me to be good at math, and boy did it work.. because of that game, multiplication became a lot easier for me.

With brain age, I've become very quick with certain tests.. and any form of similar tests at a school would be easier to do because of brain age..

I don't want to hear any studies on this type of crap.. from my own experience, and a lot of others based on what I've heard from reviews of brain age, and talking to people about these games that challenge the mind.. this bull shit study(ya know, some studies are farce) sounds like some type of f***ing propaganda.

Educational games don't work because their design is inherently flawed. Some things like math, reading, and other subjects are best left to actual human beings teaching a class. You can't teach an entire subject via a computer because it's a totally linear experience with no room for questioning or real critical thinking.

There is a great book out there called Everything Bad is Good for You, which argues that regular video games actually provide a way for people to develop skills such as problem solving, critical thinking, and task delegation. These are less tangible skills than say, calculating how fast two trains will collide on the same track, but these are still skills that can help children develop better minds.

I'd say that our education system would benefit by concentrating on teaching the fundamentals and working on teaching kids to be better critical thinkers. They can learn how to use a computer any time, but if they can't even write complete sentences or figure out how to balance their checkbooks then they are screwed for the rest of their lives.

I learned some very valuable lessons from Oregon Trail:

1) As previously mentioned, it doesn't matter how many animals you kill, one man can only carry so many corpses. This even applies to farmers.

2) When given a choice between "fording" a river or "caulking" it, the best decision is neither.

3) Be careful what you write on your tombstone. Mrs. Zimmerman may see it.

4) Even doctors catch typhoid.

5) Given rules 1, and 4, in life it is always best to be the banker.

Oh Man! I saw that screen cap of the Oregan trail and something rang inside my head. Why does it look so familiar??? It's all coming back now! I was a little kid playing that at school and HATED it! I can't believe my teachers were palming this off as a video game. It sucked...it sucked BAD!.

number munchers taught me how to do quick math problems using multiplication, division, subtraction, and addition
number munchers kicked ass

A grueling pace and minimized rations prepared me for college.

Five years for both a Bachelors and a Masters degrees in engineering from a top 10 university with no debt, and I owe it all to Oregon Trail.

"Educational games don't work because their design is inherently flawed. Some things like math, reading, and other subjects are best left to actual human beings teaching a class. You can't teach an entire subject via a computer because it's a totally linear experience with no room for questioning or real critical thinking."

Rusty people tend to get a boost from a learning experience disguised as fun. I at a later age started to get very rusty with math. I did math tests outside of games, had to do math for doing the bills and other things.. but I still sucked at it. Brain Age is what got me back into the game and made math a lot easier for me to do.

I have ADD, teachers have never been able to greatly increase my ability in spelling, it was me being my own teacher and using the internet that has increased my spelling and grammar. It use to be really REALLY bad.

Games are great for education when done right, like the math game example above.

The gaming world has not been explored nearly as much as it can be, games have a potential greatness to help those who are just too lazy for school. Schools without their technologies now suck as they are.. More hands on and better teaching methods need to be applied, and maybe a little exploration would be nice instead of making concrete conclusions on things that have barely been explored.

These people are dumbasses.

Games will help you learn. Anything that is interactive will speed up the learning proccess.

Another valuable lesson from Oregon Trail:

Forget extra rations, wagon parts, or medicine. If you set out with enough bullets, you can find everything else along the way.

Screw that, I loved Oregon Trail.

And Mario is Missing and Mario's Time Machine, surprisingly enough.

But of course console games or games that are more entertainment than educational are less productive in the classroom environment.

And Mavis Bacon Teaches Typing. >.>

And other edutainment software I've tricked myself into over the years.

Mavis! That bitch!

Maybe I skipped through the homekey drills too fast but that didn't mean she had to belittle me with popup bubbles like "you'll never get it like that," and then refuse to let me drive the typing car.

If my dad hadn't let me play Leisure Suit Larry I might have given up typing forever...

oh man what about Rescue Mission and Treasure Mountain? Jumpin over banana peels, snappin pictures of robots, catching elves with butterfly nets and answering their diabolical math questions, grinding repetition, those games were totally educational!

Come to think of it actually I guess they weren't.

But they still ruled!

I loved Word Munchers at school enough to get it for my home computer. I think that was my favorite educational game.

this is bullshit. I helped participate in ARGH research with professors from MIT, Harvard and Madison. Your low level, poor behavior (many urban students who are under-educated or misguided), really really respond to educational software. However you have to develop learning software that works.

My ESL/ELL (language learners) students use education software all the time. By using computers, they learn the english language while also learning how to do math or write english.

ARGH software works (problem then solution), because it follows education principles. If its on paper, it works right... so why wouldn't it work on a computer while also teaching them GPS, PDA, geography (working outside), solving problems, finding solutions, using high level cognitive learning.

I think these government bastards are cheap, or feel threatened. You know what doesn't work? The leave the children behind act.

http://www.academiccolab.org/argh/

Oh... in Japan they are using DS games to teach languages (european and japanese and korean)... and it works well.

Students also learn best, by mixing up the daily routine. So our ESL students might have classroom math a few days a week, and 1-2 days of computer math based lessons.

Often when teaching economics, using computers can help further scaffold the lesson. For instance, teach them how to draw a graph on the board... if anyone has taken econ... by this point in class you probably are sleeping.

However, take what they learned in the class, then teach them how to use excel and recreate the graph in excel. Now they know how to make a data chart, graph and use basic excel skills... so software can be helpful.

However, if your thinking about generic education software... alot of it is gimmicy crap. not all of it is crap though. alot of students learn how to type, read, write, do math etc... in both the class and on computers.

The best teaching advice, is to mix things up... students have different learning levels and they learn in different methods. Some learn from direct, lecture instructure... some fall asleep. Some students love hands on work, with cutting shapes or creating projects. Some students learn best from putting them on a computer (myself, i can learn almost any subject on a computer)...

The point is, most of these studies are BS... you have to actually be in the classroom, try different methods and software. I find our government often fails us. If you research the no child left behind act, you can see how it was a big sham... they didnt even let ESL/ELL students or low level students or failing students take the tests, the entire texas school system failed hundreds of kids on purpose so only the cream of the crop could take the tests.... principles who complained about the bias were fired or demoted.... hey lets put that into law!

I learned to type using Typing of the Dead...Educational and fun.

3 words:
mario teaches typing

You have died from dysentery.

* Play Again
Quit

This study is complete bullcrap. Educational software has helped me alot. The muncher's series(Numbermunchers, wordmunchers, etc), several typing teachers(mavis beacon, typing of the dead), and several language tutoring programs.

lmao @ fuzz

I learned how NOT to drive with burnout2. No, seriously. Those accidents showed me what can potentially happen if I act the fool in my car. Now everytime I think of drifting or speeding I think of that game and don't (most of the time).

Reader Rabbits 1-3 helped me develop and find an interest in English and spelling (Speak and Spell ruled), and I was always so much farther ahead than every one else in my school because of the interest and learning that those games provided.

Oregon Trail helped me get a better grade on a speech about the Donner Party that I made because nearly every single person in my 25-person class had played Oregon Trail, so they all knew what I was talking about when you ran out of food and had to eat Typhoid Mary...

Who cares about educational gaming... wait, is that Oregon Trail?!? Teh leet.

out

Ah, good ol' Oregon Trail. It taught me that it's fun to go out and shoot everything that moves, even though I could only carry 200 lbs back to the wagon. Bear meat is good eatin!

Games don't replace teachers, but if the teacher is a gamer, those games can prove a useful tool. Defcon is an excellent way to teach about the Cold War. Civ is amazing for history. I'm currently taking an urban design class in college and using Simcity for inspiration.

SPELL-O-VATOR FTW!!!!


...and Mrs. Pape used to get really pissed at me because when I'd play Oregon Trail I would usually just hunt for an hour.

I still have no idea how two dead bunnies could add up to over 400 lbs of meat.

i don't know if anyone else remembers a game called "the incredible machine," but it was a pretty simple game that just involved constructing rube goldberg-style contraptions out of a set amount of tools in order to transport a ball from point a to point b. i liked it because it was fun, but in retrospect, it was really great at teaching critical thinking and planning ahead.

I loved Oregon Trail and was once told "The Only Person that could ever have the patience to keep up with you is Mavis Beacon!!" since I really suck at typing.

Play Oregon Trail Online!
http://www.virtualapple.org/oregontraildisk.html (IE Only)

Don't be tight, always take the ferry!

I also remember Number Munchers and Odell Lake! Odell Lake ruled! All the games seemed come from the Minnesota Education Corp. The only only one I remember really sucking was 'To Preserve Protect and Defend.' That game had you reading and editing passages of the constitution all day long.

where in the world is Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego?

Carmen taught me basic geography, flags of the world, basic deduction, list goes on.

They really need to make more of those.

People need to stop dismissing the value of non-"educational games" just because they don't teach raw information or focus on conveying information about a "core subject." Exploration is learning.

They're right, especially when you're trying to use the software to teach yourself Japanese >_<

The unstructured environment of learning software just BEGS for you to turn on the TV/Radio/turn to a different application (like Internet Explorer) and throw education out the window

(I can't wait until college and actual Japanese classes)

I'm going to agree with Jeremy Roe on this.

At the serious game summit at GDC, there were a lot of studies that showed that if you use games as suplimental teaching tools and that you gave the teacher learning material on how to use the games in class, that it worked great.

One example is Roller Coaster Tycoon. You could just let the kids play it, but if you give the teachers the right instruction to help the kids and give lessons that support what was learned, then the kids get it. Just putting a kid in front of the game fails. This was the consensus from many of the games talked about at the conference. If you want to read more about this, go to...

http://www.gameaddicthotline.com/?page_id=177

Unfortunitly I was the only one reporting on it.

http://store.cmpgame.com/product.php?id=2028&cat=44

if you want to buy the audio from the event.

I'm sorry, but this is a load. I've actually been doing a lot of research, and have books on this subject. There are a lot of research even that says to the contrary of this. Some very reputable sources, I might add.

This kind of upsets me that people would make such farce research as I've spent a lot of time convincing a lot of people that video games have a positive affect human intelligence. However, I don't think this research will go very far. Some people will use it, but there's too much research to the contrary and growing.

>> the study could help schools, both underfunded
>> and not, because now their administrators might
>> spend more money on good teachers and less on
>> Oregon Trail.

First off, there's no such thing as an underfunded government-owned school district. Being more-or-less a monopoly the schools have no incentive to allocate resources properly and simply impose tax increases on the public to meet shortfalls. The public usually doesn't question the outrageous growth in funding because "it's for the children" and if you question these increases you are a bad person who hates children.

One of the reasons I moved to another state was due to my previous state's punishing taxation for the schools. $5000 annual school property tax for owning a basic 2000 sqft house, a 1% local income tax for the schools, and a state income and sales tax that partially went to the schools. The government school system is like the mafia only less ethical.

Second, schools generally can't spend money on good teachers because they are unionized. This is a double-edged sword. The forced uniformity caused by union control of the workforce prevents employers to reward good employees...if any even exist because unionized employees are usually far less productive than non-union employees. Our government controlled school system is a perfect example of how unions increase costs and reduce the quality of service.

I wouldn't trust a report from the US Department of Education. (For example, if the department really did believe in educating the public then the public would be informed on the US Constitution and realize that the Dept of Education is a illegal organization) This department has a built-in incentive to protect the industry and it wouldn't fit their agenda to suggest that anything other than members of the Teachers' Union can teach kids. This is why private schools and the home school movement are attacked.

Mario taught me typing.

Math Blaster taught me multiplication.

Carmen Sandiego taught me world currency.

Rocky's Boots (Robot City) taught me discrete logic.


The big lesson to take away is that there are things schools want you to learn that require "drilling", and computer games are far and away the best way to do that. Whether the things are actually worth learning is another argument altogether.

W00T! I survived the Oregon Trail!! :D
Beat this score bitches!!!
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n121/TheOriginalTuatara/Screenshots/OREGONTRAILOWNAGE.png

Whether something is educational or not depends on the design of the software. Next, someone will tell us that books are not educational because a lot of books are fiction.

TV is causing brain atrophy all over the country! Somebody start a petition to get the Science Channel out of homes, and force children to engage in more traditional reading practices: comic books!

well.. 2 months of Brain Training has taught me my times table better than 14 years of school. And various freeware japanese games ahve seriously helped my japanese knowledge.

But the main advantage that games have over teaching is that KIDS WANT TO PLAY GAMES.

I'm sure i'd have picked up my times table much faster in school if i was actualy interested.. but games have an addictive, competetive quality that lends excellently to repetetive learning activities.

Sure, they shouldn't replace teachers or anything.. but they certainly make an excellent extra tool for the repetetive tasks..

Tuatara, I may be a bitch, but I beat your score. Ass. I'm sure others can easily beat mine.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/ebolaboi/oregontrail.jpg

Majora's Mask helped me to learn in what direction north, south, east, and west are.

...I'm serious.