Data shows Blu-ray leading high-def disc battle
Ever since two of the major console manufacturers picked sides in the high-definition movie disc war, gamers everywhere have taken an unnatural interest in the home video market. High-Def Digest has unearthed some new, detailed data on this battle from a recently leaked Sony report (PDF ZIP link).
As of March 18, the cumulative sales numbers show Blu-ray (844,000 total units) holding a slight edge over HD-DVD (708,600 units) in the United States. These overall numbers are less interesting than the historical trend, though -- HD-DVD sales were strong through the end of 2006 but have fallen well below rising Blu-ray sales in 2007. Could the slow growth in PS3-equipped homes finally be having some effects on the movie market?
Worldwide dominance for Sony's new format isn't settled yet, though. Next Gen reports that a growing number of independent studios in Europe have decided to back HD-DVD to the exclusion of Blu-Ray. So if you like European art house flicks, the choice is clear.
Read - Sony Report Reveals First Look at Absolute Blu-ray and HD DVD Disc Sales Figures
Read - HD-DVD Winning the European Race
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
LJKelley @ Apr 10th 2007 8:03PM
Big difference... I plan on buying 10 HD DVDs for my Birthday here in April :)
I still think HD DVD can win especially considering the HD DVD Players are going for less than $300 on Amazon!
gsbrock1 @ Apr 10th 2007 8:05PM
A major component in this is lackluster HD-DVD releases in 2007... I know the only HD-DVD i've had any interest in since the new year has been "Children of Men", Blu-Ray has had stronger titles to release (part of this is because of major studio backing). Personally, I believe the overall technology of HD-DVD is better (even if the storage capacity is slightly smaller), but better technology doesn't win the format war - a strong release lineup will.
Storm9 @ Apr 10th 2007 8:08PM
Yea they reason they are going for $300 cuz its a dying format! Prices will only fall more as less and less movies come out for it.
Would be stupid to buy HD-DVD right now.
Look at Blu-Ray line up for summer...
Pirates and Cars for Disney, Spiderman 1 and 2 from Sony, and the list goes on and on.
Yeah, so HD-DVD gets Matrix for $100+ bundle.
But guess what?? Its also comming for Blu-Ray end of summer.
mr mobius @ Apr 10th 2007 8:09PM
We're on a gaming website so its only appropriate that we blame it on the lack of decent titles for ps3 and so instead ps3 users have to buy bluray dvds to make their purchase worth the money.
I wonder if they also count in the bluray films given out with the ps3 in packages?
mr mobius @ Apr 10th 2007 8:09PM
We're on a gaming website so its only appropriate that we blame it on the lack of decent titles for ps3 and so instead ps3 users have to buy bluray dvds to make their purchase worth the money.
I wonder if they also count in the bluray films given out with the ps3 in packages?
Ian Von Porter @ Apr 10th 2007 8:17PM
100k of that difference would be due to Casino Royale, thanks.
Rubang B @ Apr 10th 2007 8:23PM
Well I'm into European art-house flicks, and porn, so there's 2 reasons to go HD-DVD for me. But then again, I am NEVER spending hundreds of dollars on either of these turds. I got a regular old DVD player for $27 new. It will last me.... oh I don't know, 10 more years. I'll buy one of these newfangled contraptions when it costs $27.
Diskoboy @ Apr 10th 2007 8:24PM
This article is 100% Bullshit - and I'm also willing to bet someone at Sony wrote it - just like they like to write thier own fake movie reviews for movies they made (A Knight's Tale, anyone??).
Every article I've ever read has said HD-DVD is outselling Blu-Ray 4 to 1. Also visiting a place that sells movies also say otherwise. And I also think whoever wrote this article probably didn't include the 360's add on because it's not a dedicated player. So I don't believe this article one god-damned bit.
MthdDirector @ Apr 10th 2007 8:39PM
Kyle, you need to revise your blog post to say "Sony Data shows Blu-Ray leading hi-def disc battle"
C'mon, it's called journalistic integrity. You need to question the source, which you didn't do.
Jake @ Apr 10th 2007 8:39PM
Diskoboy,
The only thing I've read so far that's bullshit is your 4-1 HD-DVD to BluRay figure. BluRay players came out well after HD-DVD, and they've already taken the lead in the market. Wake up.
jp @ Apr 10th 2007 8:42PM
blu ray def gon win
have titles tht appeal to adults and their children
nothin comin out in hd dvd intrest my son and daughter
SpaceButler @ Apr 10th 2007 8:55PM
#11, Please tell me you're not gonna home school your kids. That was the worst-spelled post I've ever seen. Good lord.
People are so quick to declare Blu-ray the winner this generation. How about EITHER format clear a million units sold, and then maybe we can look at the war as something more influential. In the meantime, we're looking at a niche war. I'm a neutral supporter, but frankly, even the "best" blu-ray titles like Casino Royale or Black Hawk Down have failed to impress me on the "this is more than just a high def version of a dvd" front. HD-DVD has gone above and beyond that with interactivity.
Nfinity @ Apr 10th 2007 8:56PM
Jake, he does have a point in certain things..
the numbers shown are skewed. The total amount of players sold for BD is higher when you look at the number, however don't forget that PS3 console constitutes for about 500k sold units as BD players, which in essence they are, but people buy them mostly for games to begin with.
So if we compare 710k HD-DVD units, meaning REAL standalone HD-DVD players, against ~300k sold REAL standalone BD players, the numbers look different.
Now, pay attention, I don't say there's more HD-DVD players on the market, I'm just saying that HD-DVD is favored more by regular folks then what the numbers are really showing. Take in consideration another 200k HD-DVD XBox 360 addons sold and the picture changes a bit.
The real advantage here is just being bumped by PS3, that's about it. The hype was high for these couple of months since PS3 showed up, but I'm extremely convinced that BD "market lead" is fading out significantly as PS3s are not exactly flying off the shelves.
The European market shows this even stronger.
So I'm still not 100% sure that I can say BD is kicking ass..it's simply not true... not to mention that bias of this article that quotes Sony's numbers, Sony's statements and numbers that are highly questionable as promotional BD disks for example that were part of the rebate programs were still counted as sales.
kftgr @ Apr 10th 2007 8:56PM
Won't buy either. Why? The cost of a BD & HD-DVD disc can cost as much as a DVD PLAYER.
Besides, nowadays I find myself buying less and less DVDs and instead go through digital downloads and netflix.
BTW, the only way HD-DVD would win is to cut the price of the media to the equivalent of DVDs. Since HD-DVDs can have both HD and normal DVD content, people would be incentivized to buy it (and a HD-DVD player) rather than regular DVDs.
Scott @ Apr 10th 2007 9:03PM
Wow Diskoboy. I'm not going to be rude, but there are hundreds of die hard Blu-Ray AND HD DVD fans on AVSforum who all agree that Blu-Ray is outselling HD DVD. There is absolutely no argument over it from both sides.
I really don't know where you have been reading those articles, or if you were just saying that, but you couldn't be more wrong. Maybe your information is from 4-6 months ago. Check out the Blu-Ray and HD DVD sections on AVSforum to see for yourself. There is sales data all over it - and the people there follow the HD format war hour-by-hour, day-by-day. Here's the link:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=148
Also, check out these stories that come from independent media sales analysts:
http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6422898.html
http://www.videostoremag.com/news/html/breaking_article.cfm?sec_id=2&&article_ID=10323
Scott @ Apr 10th 2007 9:09PM
My apologies, Diskoboy. I thought you were talking about disc sales, not players. Disregard my prior post if you weren't.
Nfinity @ Apr 10th 2007 9:10PM
oh and I forgot, these Blu-Ray camp PR tactics with paid authors on even reputable web sites to report BD as it was kicking ass, completely false web sites presented as sites by individuals who praise BD, but are actually maintained by Blu-Ray association, statistics reports that are completely skewed, dirty tactics with retailers, where BDA pays these retailers to shove HD-DVD playback and units at the back of the stores and show them on even non-HD TVs, while showing Blu-Ray titles on new 1080p 65" Panasonic plasmas etc etc, are just showing what type of company/companies we are dealing here, not to mention what we can expect in the future as consumers.
I can say this freely as I am involved with BDA and been making these viral PR things as they instructed me.
I'm sorry, but even though they pay my bills, I will still support HD-DVD as a better, more advanced, but most of all, consumer friendly format.
Alex @ Apr 10th 2007 9:22PM
A SONY report claims Blu-Ray is winning, and fanboys buy it. WOW. Don't you have to practice with your cheerleading squad for the next ball game?
Yah, someone link the report from Sony saying that UMD is the most successful next-gen format too.
Gdiguy @ Apr 10th 2007 9:30PM
I don't understand this reporting at all...
All I learned from those numbers is that Casino Royale sold extremely well on Blu-ray, which is possibly the most non-shocking thing ever (what, people that would put down $600 on a PS3 would want to own a Bond movie? Color me shocked), and that most other HD movies are selling like crap. I mean, look at the numbers - the #8 movie on the list was under 1000 units for the week, which is sub 50k for a year... that's horrendous for a top-shelf movie.
In the competition, Superman is the only one on the total amounts sold list sold in both formats, and it's about ~2200 different on BR vs HDDvD, out of 30k (near a 5% difference)... so basically, the units sold is going with whichever side releases movies that early adopters want to buy (again shockingly, Bond, Superman, and Batman), and most of them are selling poorly regardless of format.
ssuk @ Apr 10th 2007 9:31PM
It doesn't matter who wins out of the next gen format race, the consumer is still being screwed which ever format they choose.
Shaggy @ Apr 10th 2007 9:33PM
Here we go, yet another "BR beats out HD-DVD again slightly so the format war is over!" post. Let's be honest in how this all matters. That total volume of sales still means NOTHING compared to total DVD sales. Sony has a long way to go before they trump DVD and that's not necessarily a huge lead Sony has there over HD-DVD either. This will not end any time soon. Never mind the fact that HD-DVD is bringing on more independent, smaller studios and with the price cuts it will drive more people to the format.
If it weren't for the PS3, BR would be pretty much dead. Standalone BR players by themselves wouldn't be able to hold up against HD-DVD's more consumer friendly prices.
And what's funny if you really sit back and look at the numbers, because of the PS3 BR should have a much higher number of movies sold if all PS3s were being used for movies. HD-DVD has far fewer players out in comparison because most are standalones yet that smaller number is able to hold out pretty well against BR w/ PS3. It shows that HD-DVD owners are far more dedicated in their movie buying.
@Storm9 - The dropping price also means nothing about the format dying. It's called competition. Otherwise by your interpretation the PS3, 360 and Wii will have lost the game war the moment they drop the price. That's ridiculous. HD-DVD has been out for a year now. The players getting price cuts is a good thing for consumer. Microsoft could learn a lesson from them actually. The 360 has been out for about a year and half and no price cut to spur further sales. I'm sure we'll see one soon from them but it won't mean that the 360 is dying.
Jake @ Apr 10th 2007 9:48PM
"I'm sorry, but even though they pay my bills, I will still support HD-DVD as a better, more advanced, but most of all, consumer friendly format." -Nfinity
By all means, expand upon this. What makes HD-DVD more "consumer friendly?" And most of all, what makes it more advanced? I'd say the most consumer friendly feature of either format is the scratch-resistant coating on BluRay discs.
And regarding your earlier rebuttal, I was referring to movie sales rather than hardware. Yes, most of the BluRay players sold are probably PS3s, but does that really matter if those PS3 owners are buying movies? It's still a BluRay player no matter how you look at it. You're also failing to take into consideration the people who have bought PS3s specifically for the BluRay playback.
Lord Chako @ Apr 10th 2007 9:49PM
@Storm9
I guess the psp's price drop also means it is dying as well?
See how that works?
Anyways, in my opinion, neither format will win. They can both proclaim how one is outselling the other, but in the long run, until either one outsells the dvd, neither will win.
It's like proclaiming dvd-audio is outselling super audio cd.
In the end, did anybody really care?
Hikaru @ Apr 10th 2007 10:00PM
Blu-Ray it's outselling HD-DVD, that's a fact and it will continue that way.
P.S. Why Microsoft didn't put a HD-DVD drive in the Elite again?
Lord of Hyrule @ Apr 10th 2007 10:27PM
"100k of that difference would be due to Casino Royale, thanks."
Ian, Casino Royale only sold around 25,000 in the US not 100,000 as they claimed it was, hell The Departed out sold it. Check VideoScan, some more example of Sony FUD.
@Hikaru, yes BD is out selling HD DVD in the USA and Japan but since we do not know the Eu no.s this can not be proven as a worldwide fact. Also How do you know that HD DVD won't catch up, $200 for HD DVD in Xmas is going to be pretty big. Now Why didn't Microsoft put it in to the Elite? Obviously they felt it wasn't a proven format, and because it would a)Cause a lot of shoratges and
b)It will jak the price up a lot.
Now on the main topic:
I reckon this is dissapointing for Blu Ray, you've got a million BD customers in the US and yet you've only beaten your competitor by 100,000? and even yet your highest selling title hasn't sold over 50,000 yet?
Sonic_Extreme @ Apr 10th 2007 10:29PM
Ummm lets see you have retail BR players + over 1million PS3s. So rought estimate is around 1.4 million BR players. So lets estimate in which maybe someone can provide real numbers but for estimates lets say 0.5mil HD_DVD. To only be beating HD-DVD in sales with only 136k more yet you have had more BR movies out this year and have almost 1mil players more, don't matter who the hell spins numbers to me that is not good. They are not picking any mainstream speed yet. Millions still buy VHS + DVD players combos. Downloading movies in HD is just starting, DVD sales are montrous and movie rentals are norm these days. Both formats will never Hit big no matter who says. Yes they will be a winner but if they can't dethrone DVD who cares. There is to much competition for High def and for me I say downloading is getting my money.
Miles @ Apr 10th 2007 10:38PM
They didn't put an HD-DVD drive in the Elite due to cost. And why alienate your old customers, who won't have HD-DVD drives? Ever hear of the 32X? Worked out well for Sega.
Xbots suck @ Apr 10th 2007 10:42PM
Dear god, you guys has got to be the lowest of the low fanboys I have every met,
you people have some imaginary grudge against Sony so badly that even when positive news in plain black and white, you people try to spin it into something bad, or scream " it's all lies"....
No I take back fanboys, you people don't even have the honor of being called that , the only thing you people have the honor of being called is.....................sad
Hikaru @ Apr 10th 2007 10:45PM
@Lord of Hyrule @Miles
Ok, then, why didn't Microsoft made a Black HD-DVD Drive to buy with the Elite?
mushiking @ Apr 10th 2007 10:50PM
only one thing needs to be said that will wrap up this entire format war: Spider Man 3
looks like Sony won for once.
Evan @ Apr 10th 2007 11:10PM
This is pathetic!
The report says that only 7 high-definition titles (Blu-Ray and HD-DVD combined) sold over 1,000 copies in the week ending March 18th. And most mainstream movies haven't even sold 10,000 copies since being released. Even a big movie like Terminator 3 sold only 8,000 copies in 6 months! Absolutely pathetic!
jp @ Apr 10th 2007 11:58PM
guys dont worry by next year most of the fanboys will shut up cause a winner will by decided and we will have peace until the next gen of consoles are released. buy knowing ms as soon as they lose with the 360 they will leave it and not support it like the xbox
dsub @ Apr 11th 2007 1:24AM
One thing that may begin to help HDDVD is the recent reduction is price. A decent stand-alone Toshiba HDDVD player can now be purchased for $399.99. Given that track, I'd expect them to be down in the sub $300 range by next fall. Meanwhile, I still can't find a standalone blu-ray player for under $800.
Also, do those blu-ray numbers even include PS3's? I thought Sony had already sold over a million PS3's alone? So then how is it that only 800,000 blu-ray players have been sold? This must be refering to stand-alone players only, or Sony is fudging numbers somewhere.
Adam @ Apr 11th 2007 3:24AM
I can't actually beleive that HD-DVD is winning the format war, as in the UK at least, there are actually no HD-DVDs in stores, whereas there have been BDs in stores since March 23rd.
Also on Amazon, HD-DVDs are hardly selling at all. I think the fact that there are about 900,000 blu-ray players in Europe, and that number is going to go up, means that there are far more people who are going to buy BDs.
Atsui @ Apr 11th 2007 3:39AM
Part of them winning is the spin they do. They do better sales for a few months, and then have sony officials come out and say for weeks in a row averaging at more than 10 times a week about how they won!
"We won, WE WON!" "The race is over!" Giving peoples hopes up
Screw Sony with their spin and obsession over DRM!
(I use to buy music off of Itunes because it was easy to crack the songs so I can make music remixes and fan made music videos. But they kept updating it, and it became a pain in the ass to convert the mp4.. so I buy from them now every blue moon. I most of the time only want one song, so I don't really buy cds either. Itunes is releasing drm free music here soon for a few more cents and I'll support that.)
Vin @ Apr 11th 2007 4:40AM
They both are doing below initial expectations and Sony had to give Blue-Ray movies (first 500000 PS3's had one) away for free to have the lead in 'sales'. Initial reports in 2004 expected them to sell 6.2 million HD-players in 2005 alone(bloomberg, mar 04). And now they have sold 1.55million movies, of witch many were given away for free...
This news is like: 'daikatana for PC sold more then daikatana for N64': like someone cares
John @ Apr 11th 2007 4:42AM
I want HDDVD to 'win' coz its cheaper. Blurays a better technology, I just want HDDVD to win so i can spend £130 (GBP) and get the player for my 360 lol.
Biphter @ Apr 11th 2007 4:44AM
Well if HD-DVD is supposed to be winning the Euro race, they better get some players and discs out here because all I see here in sunny Denmark is Blu-Ray Players (Dedicated/PS3) And Disc. Casino Royal is been advertised to the bollocks with "OUT NOW ON DVD AND BLU RAY" splattered across it too.
JET @ Apr 11th 2007 8:26AM
A few interesting things about the report (please note the report was published on 3/18/07 so all data is relevant to that date):
1. This isn't a Sony report. It is a Nielsen report. Nielsen is best known for compiling TV ratings data, although they're involved in all manner of media tracking.
2. The market share chart on page 9 speaks volumes. Blu-Ray's market is divided among 7 studios: Warner (19.3%), Sony (31.7%), Disney (13.4%), Lion's Gate (13.9%), MGM (2.7%), Paramount (8.8%), and Fox (9.8%). On HD-DVD, only 3 studios are represented: Warner (46.4%), Universal (35.6%), and Paramount (11.9%).
3. Many movies released on both formats have sold almost the same number of copies on each. Corpse Bride, for example, has sold 4,982 units on BR and 5,228 units on HD. Superman Returns sold 30,845 on BR and 28,440 on HD. The only big difference is The Departed - 38,993 BR v 23,454 HD. That's a strong argument for supporting both.
4. Despite being included free with 500,000 PS3s, Talledega Nights is the 13th best selling standalone title, moving 10,346 copies.
5. HD-DVD's share of the market has decreased every single week since November 5th, 2006. No good way to spin that. BR disks are outselling HD disks by a ratio of 4.5:1
Overall, the report shows Blu-Ray enjoys a clear lead, although HD-DVD sales are strong enough to support the format for a while to come. Warner and Universal split over 80% of the HD-DVD market, meaning they have no good reason to declare the format dead anytime soon. Even if the writing is on the wall.
JET
DrXym @ Apr 11th 2007 8:47AM
People who think HD-DVD can possible win this format war are living in cloud cuckoo land. Seriously. Whatever merits the system may have (e.g. region free), the simple fact is there are more BD players, more BD disks, more BD studios and more BD sales than HD-DVD. And the gap is widening all of the time. Unless Sony seriously screwed up, or Toshiba announced free HD-DVD players, I seriously see no reason to see BD lose its dominance. It really is just a matter of time now before Toshiba throw in the towel.
Calvin @ Apr 11th 2007 9:08AM
hmm.. 39 posts and the most intelligent one I have seen was the 39th by JET. There is someone who is *actually* objectively looking at the data. And yes, the numbers are Neilsen's not Sony's.
The report is a state of the union, but by no means the decider. However, nobody is saying they won or the war is over. The title of this article is actually legit. BR is leading. Is it significant? I don't think so. Is it early (too early to tell)? Damn straight it is. Are fanboys idiots? You Betcha.
Cal
Neal @ Apr 11th 2007 9:15AM
@ 33
Here is a Sony BluRay Player for under 800 dollars.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8008489&st=playstation+3&lp=1&type=product&cp=1&id=1156202764702
Guess what... it also plays games, goes online, is a media reader, has wireless connection, 60GB HDD...
How many of the HD-DVD players do that?
Todd @ Apr 11th 2007 9:26AM
Since Sony has denounced any intention of letting the porn industry use their format, I'll be sticking to HD-DVD for all my needs. I see no reason to own two different players to handle two different formats when one player, one format is just fine.
Tim @ Apr 11th 2007 9:53AM
I think it will be interesting to see what happens after Toshiba's recent price drop. The HD-A2 is on Amazon now for $310 w/ five free HD-DVD's. From my perspective (considering the $100 in free movies), it's like paying $200 for a high quality upscaling DVD player that also plays HD-DVD's. There are already hundreds of titles available on HD-DVD, so I'm not sure with such a low price it won't convince more people to test the perverbial HD movie waters. Time will tell.
D @ Apr 11th 2007 10:44AM
I like my PS3/BluRay combo - i do admit the movies are a bit pricey so I choose to buy only quality ones (Superman Returns, Casino Royale and MI:3).
If the price were to drop by 1/3, I would pick up more. That being said, I think the this format is a stopgap for the streaming stuff.
ill trooper @ Apr 11th 2007 10:58AM
Thank you, JET. A diamond of a post among a sea of fangirl rants.
MIkesOnline @ Apr 11th 2007 11:09AM
Here's something to think about. Not all people that own a PS3 have a HDTV. I'm sure there are some people who buy the PS3 mostly for Blu-Ray. However, considering in America only about 15% of the population have hdtv, I'll bet there are a significant amount of PS3 owners that don't even have a HDTV. Of those who do, how many of them bought the PS3 for gaming and not for Blu-Ray? Nobody knows, but suffice it to say you cannot assume all PS3's owners will be buying Blu-Ray movies. However, anyone buying a hd dvd player, even the Xbox 360 would have no reason to buy it unless they are going to support the format.
FrankTheCrank @ Apr 11th 2007 12:25PM
EUROPE??? LOL LOL LOL
I love how you guys throw Europe into the mix as if Europe was the movie capital of the WORLD.
As far as movies are concerned, it's HOLLYWOOD that pretty much controls movies in general.
Ryu @ Apr 11th 2007 12:43PM
The format war is pointless. I used to be in favor of HD-DVD, but by the time a "winner" is decided, digital distribution will be the new "format." Look at direct to drive, XBL marketplace, direct2drive.com and moviedownloadworld.com
My guess is by the time of the next generation of consoles is released "PS4, Xbox 3, and Nintendo 6" physical format will be mostly dead, and Discs will be totally dead. Say hello to downloadable movies and movies on flash drives, which don't get scratched, can easily be copy protected, are dropping in price faster than any other format, and use up a fraction of the power that disc drives do, plus are totally silent.
yourenemiesfriends @ Apr 11th 2007 1:32PM
yeah i agree, the format war is pointless. Anyone who's willing to shell out 37 bucks for The Lake House on blue ray is a damn fool. i just got my dvd collection up to a little over 400 movies, theres no way in hell i'm gonna replace those with HD movies. The jump from VHS to DVD is still killing me.