Scratch that: The Xbox 360 might damage discs after all
As if the Red Ring of Death wasn't already a frequently discussed part of Xbox 360 lore that Microsoft would rather avoid discussing, bubbling to the surface is another issue we've been hearing about for a while -- the Xbox 360 Ring of Disc Death. Dutch consumer advocacy show Kassa tested Xbox 360s (video after the break) and proved that the Xbox 360 does indeed scratch discs. A Microsoft spokesperson says a previous statement in Europe has some "nuances" lost in translation when it was converted to English.
Joystiq received from Microsoft their official statement, "Due to the fact that we did not participate in the experiment done by Kassa and have little insight into the methodology that was used, we cannot comment specifically on the outcome. While we are aware that discs can potentially be scratched through normal wear and tear, we have not received any widespread reports of the issue highlighted here. There are millions of Xbox consoles in use today and we know that the majority of our customers are having a great gaming experience. That said, it is important to us that all of our customers have the best gaming experiences possible, and these claims are obviously very concerning to us. We encourage any Xbox customer who believes that their discs have been scratched in the same manner as identified by KASSA, to contact us at www.xbox.com/support or 1-800-4-MY-XBOX for additional information. We will examine the console and make appropriate repairs if necessary in order to restore the console to full working order, as well as provide customers with information on how to obtain replacement discs should they need them."
We'd previously reported that it's best to keep your console horizontal. Kassa reports that the problem is created by the TSST drive missing parts that stabilize the disc and prevent the drive's lens from coming into contact with the disc. The problem is mostly found in consoles produced in Dec. 2006, and the show estimates that 1 to 2 million units are affected.
[Via Engadget]






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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Sidepocket @ Apr 16th 2007 6:38PM
I love how Microsoft and Sony keep on pumping out more powerfull versions of your consoles that keep on developing major flaws.
I am more amazed how Nintendo predicted the bloody arms race to the tee. :D
Ian Von Porter @ Apr 16th 2007 6:37PM
Hey MS, optical discs have been around for over 2 decades.. they shouldnt be getting scratched up on your pos machine.
aylera @ Apr 16th 2007 6:39PM
Not very widespread. Working in retail, I've seen a handful of these cases, though either way, the customer is always pissed off.
ZodiacKiller29 @ Apr 16th 2007 7:54PM
Owned by Bill Gates again!!!!! Looks as if his trip to outer space will be delayed for another Six months. Hard to have fun, when your spending millions repairing mistakes, and spinning this into expensive counter spin media. Xbots FTL
J @ Apr 16th 2007 6:44PM
I have a december unit and it scratces the disc if u move it while the disc is running. Its an easy fix though. I don't move it while the disc is running.....
REUYL @ Apr 16th 2007 6:46PM
I'm not going to deny that the 360 has plenty of problems, but I'm willing to bet that most of these people with "damaged discs" probably decided to move their 360s vertically/horizontally while a disc was in the optical drive.
AirIntake @ Apr 16th 2007 6:47PM
My first 360 scratched my PGR3 disc to shit when I had it vertical. I went to eject the disc, and I guess the force of the drive trying to eject was just too much. The disc made a horrible grinding noise, and then the drive opened and dropped the disc on the floor. I went to Best Buy, and since 360s wrecking discs was in the news at the time, they replaced the disc for free no questions asked.
Now I run horizontal and have had no problems, even when moving the unit gently.
AirIntake @ Apr 16th 2007 6:48PM
@REUYL
Nope, I just pushed eject.
Genoboost @ Apr 16th 2007 6:53PM
I work at hollywood video and we rent out 360 games, every so often we get games back from different customers with the exact same rings on them. can't say why it happens, and whether it's the console owners fault or microsoft's (I'd imagine a bit of both). but it does happen somewhat often that I see.
Brownc4 @ Apr 16th 2007 6:57PM
Had mine for over a year now and never had an issue. I do think its kind of funny that the kids favorite game is Gears of War, a game listed as Teen in the US and Unrated (essentially banned) in Germany.
Maybe the 360 is trying to tell the Mom something ; )
icemorebutts @ Apr 16th 2007 6:59PM
I've had mine for over a year too, and just a couple of weeks ago I was playing Oblivion (I took a 1 year break) and the 360 (in the horizontal position) gave it that very same ring of disc death. I wonder if they'd replace it for me.
K31taro @ Apr 16th 2007 7:10PM
i got the same problem when i put in my Conker disc. now it's scratched to hell. hope Microsoft is going to replace it.
Sidepocket @ Apr 16th 2007 7:01PM
@ Brownc4
WTF are you smoking, or are you blind. Gears has an M rating you dolt. -,-;
hvnlysoldr @ Apr 16th 2007 7:02PM
Denmark is different than Germany though point valid that the kid shouldn't have been given that game. Stop cutting shortcuts on the hardware! It would probably cost them less to make the hardware more reliable than to replace everything than what they thought they would save in manufacturing.
James @ Apr 16th 2007 7:08PM
Are you kidding me? Yet MORE hardware problems for the 360? Now instead of just failing itself, it ruins OTHER things you purchased. Awesome.
The Xbox 360 is seriously the most problematic videogame console ever made. When will they man up, admit they screwed up, and make a new verison of the system that actually works? (Cue dozens of "my xbox works fine" comments. Go read a statistics book).
Chad @ Apr 16th 2007 7:11PM
The fool that was testing it changed it from horizontal to vertical with the game playing in the 360...Hmmm, I wonder why it scratched the disc.
Limeade @ Apr 16th 2007 7:12PM
Yeah my xbox has ruined my Oblivion and my Fight Night... I plan on just stealing to replace them though... I already payed $60 to 'license' the content, the .12 cent disc is owed me.
Caboose7895 @ Apr 16th 2007 7:18PM
How about the fact that the guy tests the machine by forcing the disk drive closed instead of hitting the disk open/close button. As well as he moves it vertical while its on and says that u can "feel it vibrating" well no shit its running a disk at very high rpms of course your going to feel it. I feel my laptop vibrate with a disk in it and that doesn't mean that it scratches my disks. This is happening because two people ignored the warnings moved their consoles while they were on and now don't want to pay for their mistakes. Classic with kids that are like 8 and play gears of war.
Randall @ Apr 16th 2007 7:26PM
During a game of Halo 2 at a friends house someone tripped on the power cord making my 360 tip over. The game kept working but there is a nice little scratched ring around the disc and I can no longer play campaign.
Zach @ Apr 16th 2007 7:25PM
I've had my 360 since launch day with no problems and no scratched discs. Seems like during this test, they turned it vertically while it was running which I know screws up the discs. A friend of mine did that once and ruined his copy of Oblivion.
sYn @ Jul 14th 2007 8:33PM
i just got y xbox about 3 weeks ago, and it's scratched ALL 4 of my games(Oblivion,Gears of War,PGR3 and Far Cry) in the same general area, in the center of the disc, and half the radius inside the disc.
WHY?! WHY?! WHY?! IV HAD IT ON ITS SIDE ALL THIS TIME!! :'(
Mr Khan @ Apr 16th 2007 7:25PM
I think Microsoft's only fault in this is advertising the console in an "upright" position (although everyone's guilty of this now)
It's probably not the optimal position for the console for disc reading, although maybe that's why the Wii is tilted in its stand, to compensate for that while the others are just sitting on thier sides
I mean i know a lot of people who had a lot of problems with their PS2 when they tried to orient "like it was in the ads"
Justin U @ Apr 16th 2007 7:26PM
The problem is that the 360 tries to slow the disc down way too fast, so it scratches on the plastic.
Hopefully, its a software fix, not a hardware fix, but yeah, I got Kameo, and it scratched it to hell, as well as a few other games. Not consistent enough to warrant replacing though.
Joe Smith @ Apr 16th 2007 7:26PM
Hmm... 3 Xbox 360s, 17 months of use, 30+ games, and no scratches. I must be some sort of miracle gamer or something. OR MAYBE THIS IS BEING OVERBLOWN?
Grant @ Apr 16th 2007 7:27PM
"prevent the drive's lens from coming into contact with the disc"
wow, so thats the lens doing that?
sounds like that has potential for not just killing discs, but scratching your lens into uselessness.
glad i don't have that issue, esp since i have already got to play the refurb game once.
Imagine if the 360 didn't have all these problems.... it would be such a dream boat.
Matt B @ Apr 16th 2007 7:28PM
Good thing my blu-ray discs will never scratch.
Chuma @ Apr 16th 2007 7:29PM
It is these hardware faults that stop me buying a 360, though I am more concerned with the red ring of death. so far every friend of mine who has had one above 12 months has had to send it back to M$. Sure they deal with the problem in a professional manner (give them some credit for how the handle it) but what happens when they stop supporting the 360 like they do with their OS? I can't warrent paying that sort of cash for a console that will die. Hell, my old NES still worked with a bit of dust clearing.
I really wish someone in M$ would just stand up and say "we have a problem, lets get rid of i instead of ignoring it publically and fire fighting the RMAs".
Grant @ Apr 16th 2007 7:30PM
Joe Smith: "Hmm... 3 Xbox 360s, 17 months of use, 30+ games, and no scratches. I must be some sort of miracle gamer or something. OR MAYBE THIS IS BEING OVERBLOWN?"
Or maybe:
"the problem is created by the TSST drive missing parts"
and maybe you don't have that drive in any of yours? Last time i checked the 360 uses 3 different DVD drives, so it's not unlikely.
Grant @ Apr 16th 2007 7:34PM
oh, and this:
"The problem is mostly found in consoles produced in Dec. 2006, and the show estimates that 1 to 2 million units are affected."
Joe Smith, Obviously you didn't read the post, because you would have known none of your units would be effected by these drives.
Somebody needs to relax their blind fanboyism a little. :-P
razer @ Apr 16th 2007 7:35PM
Cool out you fanboys!! The 360 works just fine as long as it's not being operated by an idiot!
I've had a disc scratch identical to this and it was because I had "jarred" the table the console was sitting on while it was not powered-up and then when I went to play, the disc was not centered correctly and caused the scratch(yes idiot move on my part). This will also happen if you try and move the console while it's on or shift it from horizontal to vertical while on.
I own 2 of these things and between my friends I'd say around 8 and non of them have any problems like this. I will say the 3 red lights is a manufacturing defect but this one seems like operator error.
Digi Smalls @ Apr 16th 2007 7:35PM
dec. 2005 model. no problems.
hey James, do YOU have some statistics you care to share? or are your numbers based purely on what you read on the internet? if so, i hope you're not a PS3 user...
.
locuaz @ Apr 16th 2007 7:36PM
@Joe Smith.. even if 99% of the xbox360 scratched discs there would still be 1% that don't. There you go.
Vidikron @ Apr 16th 2007 7:36PM
OK... ummm... we have known about this issue for 17 months now.
MikeG @ Apr 16th 2007 7:41PM
I find it difficult to believe that running a drive in the vertical position is problematic. That's done ALL THE TIME with other equipment. Why would it be an issue with just the 360? My PC: vertical drives, my Wii: vertical drive, the iSeries computer at work: vertical drive. Never a problem.
It's not that it's vertical, it's just that the 360 is made poorly. The drive on my 360 will randomly spin down and then cause a lock up sometimes.
dsub @ Apr 16th 2007 7:45PM
October 2005 model. No problems. At all. What so ever. If you move your 360 from vertical to horizontal or vice versa while a disc is in it and spinning, it will scratch it.
Then again, I don't know what kind of fucking moron would move the damn thing around while it's on to begin with.
Ninegauger @ Apr 16th 2007 7:45PM
My first 360 did that... I have dozens of other disks for other consoles that are ALL, every single one, unscratched so I blamed the Xbox... which is no doubt the case.
Vidikron @ Apr 16th 2007 7:50PM
I too have had no issues with my launch 360, nor have I experienced the Red Ring of Death. But then again, my 360 is well ventilated and I don't move it around while its on. Yeah for not being an idiot!
locuaz @ Apr 16th 2007 7:51PM
@dsub:
Why can't you accept that the xbox360 have perhaps design or manufacture probrems? Since we have had portable CD players there have been drives that DON'T scratch discs... like if it were something hard to do.. Does a little quality is much to ask? :/
Brett Hattaway @ Apr 16th 2007 7:53PM
This exact problem happened to me. My 360 was always horizontal and I never moved it while I was playing a game (why would I do that anyway), but it scratched three of my games. The support people kept trying to say it was my fault but they let me send it in for repair and I got a totally different console, meaning that they didn't repair mine.
First, red ring of death, second, red ring of death, third, disc death, fourth, working so far....
James @ Apr 16th 2007 7:53PM
@DigiSmalls
The point of the statistics remark being that you can't "undo" reports of problems by reporting that you are not having a problem. Representative samples, response bias, yadda yadda yada... To all of you: when you report that you are not having a problem in response to hearing that others are having a problem, statisticians are laughing at you.
And you can't undo facts by trying to turn something into a console battle. WTF did the PS3 have to do with anything?
So, basically, you posted a useless fact and tried to turn things into console vs. console slapfight for no reason. Score 2 awesome commenter points for DigiSmalls!
Triforceowner @ Apr 16th 2007 7:59PM
This isn't related to the film or the topic, but whoever set up that 360 is an idiot. They have the 360 on a wood frame; that's good. They have no cloth or stuffed animals trapping heat in the 360; that's good. They even have the 360 set up horizontal; that's good. What they screwed up on is having the 360's main air-in fan sucking up all the hot air being created by the power brick. People just don't get that Microsoft isn't Nintendo. Microsoft products will break if handled in the least bit of un-care.
Digi Smalls @ Apr 16th 2007 8:03PM
James - don't blame me for trying to make this console vs. console. that'll happen here regardless.
my point was that just because it's reported, doesn't mean it's true. i was trying to equate that internet dynamic with all the negative internet publicity surrounding PS3, a lot of it being from people who DON'T know.
.
Digi Smalls @ Apr 16th 2007 8:06PM
*systematically* true
Mitch @ Apr 16th 2007 9:32PM
FUD. The 360, like any machine with a similar disc drive, will scratch discs if you move or rotate the console while it is turned on and the disc is spinning. However, I have never heard a legitimate story about it doing this under normal usage, without user error, and I seriously doubt that such a thing has ever happened. Anyone who says otherwise is probably a liar.
MidnightSlade @ Apr 16th 2007 8:10PM
Of course its going to scratch!
The guy testing it moved the system from horizontal to vertical while the disc was spinning inside! THE MANUAL SPECIFICALLY SAYS THAT WILL CAUSE DISC DAMAGE.
sjenky @ Apr 16th 2007 8:13PM
I worked for kassa (and radar, a similar program) a long while back, it has to be the most hated shows (by companies and con-artists)on TV, here.
I don't believe that they didn't contact Microsoft, because that's usually the first thing that they'd do. They often manage to get refunds or new systems for free. Some guy even got an entire home cinema set from Sony, just because customer care made a mistake with his warranty on a cheap-ass DVD player.
Then again, this was only part of the show :-)
Bangbang... @ Apr 16th 2007 8:56PM
Yea it happend to me while playing Mass Effect. I was looking for some pocket change to buy some marketplace content and i dropped a dime.
Jude Brown @ Apr 16th 2007 8:59PM
Ouch-
I've had the 3 red lights issue occuring on a more regular basis until today when I finally had to phone MS (I was hoping mys system would limp along until after the Halo 3 beta). While it is a bum deal that I have to get it repaired they sure were great on the phone.
Icyfresh105 @ Apr 16th 2007 9:25PM
THE DAMN THING SCRATCHED MY GEARS OF WAR :(
Jake @ Apr 16th 2007 9:44PM
This is a pretty rare occurance. I scratched a disc once, but it was my drunkeness that was to blame. I tipped my 360 over accidentally while it was running.