Dyack breaks Too Human silence, talks four player co-op
Dyack says, "With Too Human, we're trying to seamlessly integrate multiplayer with the single-player. If you're really going to do that, you should be able to jump in any time, anywhere and go on a 15-minute mission with friends or play five or six hours straight if you want to. In order to do that, the world has to be pretty open and hub-based so you can jump anywhere and come back very much like Diablo."
The cooperative mode will have players utilizing different character classes in a team structure. There are five initial classes to choose from and more will be available through downloadable content -- the talk of downloadable content in the piece smacks of trying to regain lost development revenue, otherwise why not just put it in the game upfront? Dyack says the single-player campaign is balanced differently from cooperative to keep players on an even playing field.
IGN talks about the game a bit saying, "It's functional, it's fun, but so far it lacks the graphic umph that we would like to see accompany the combat scenes, especially since they play such an integral role to the game ... the fluidity, which drops below 30 frames per second, should be locked." Dyack says they haven't optimized the frame rate yet (video after break) and that they're going "to hit a solid 30 frames per second." We hope so ... we really hope so. Last year's lashing will be nothing compared to what Silicon Nights will experience after an extra year of development and delivering another Too Human flip book simulator.
See also: Too Human's Dennis Dyack pokes fun at Penny Arcade
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Blue_Falcon @ Apr 17th 2007 10:00PM
I like how he said the shooting aspect was almost like Geometry Wars.
Either way, I can't wait for this game. That preview made it one of my most anticipated.
hvnlysoldr @ Apr 17th 2007 10:02PM
Don't judge us on our early work.
l.......
Here's a preview of our game but don't judge us.
2.........
Errrrr
I SAID DON"T JUDGE US!
Kazi @ Apr 17th 2007 10:12PM
Made of lose. Co-op should be a single console endeavor where a bunch of buds get together and dick around. Not a LAN party get together where people have to drag TVs around to get a co-op game going or have to be across state on xbox live to play with each other. The more games the 360 comes out with the more and more it's looking like someone's trying to abolish people playing a multiplayer game on the same console.
John @ Apr 17th 2007 10:16PM
Good writing.
I want a DUB-based game. Reel-to-reel mixing-console peripheral, anyone? And the Wii version could have I an' I Rasta motion sensors.
Thank God they're addressing lockable frame rates; I'm glad there's more buzz over this basic practicality to immersive gameplay.
Blue_Falcon @ Apr 17th 2007 10:17PM
@3
Well, you gotta figure, MS is trying to put Live into as much as possible.
John @ Apr 17th 2007 10:29PM
This game looks really appealing, for the huge scope and the fact that they're obviously really thinking about the experience. The camera system sounds great, so that you can enjoy the 'epicness' without having to swirl your camera around, and that it's context-sensitive. I like the mix of twitch and rpg, and that it's based on Nordic myths, which is smart. We should have more games based on myths.
The only thing I don't like is the macho-ness, which is annoying, and I don't like the premise-- another goofy version of aliens coming to get us. Sure, aliens are just like us-- warlike and primitive. I don't think so.
Still, this game should make enough waves that it will have a good influence on future hybrids.
Bill nye @ Apr 17th 2007 10:33PM
Ive been following this game since it was first announced for Playstation. The thing I find with Silicon Knights is that they have allot of potential but always slightly miss the mark. Ive felt this way with Legacy of Kain:Blood Omen as well as with Eternal Darkness.
Looking at this game so far I am worried the track record will continue, thats just how I feel about it. I can't really narrow down why, but when I see the cinematics I feel like I am going to be trust into the world but then the character interact and it just seems mechanical. Then looking at the battle system it just seems to action based, this game screams strategy to me not beat em up. So I find their ideas just never seem to deliver to the degree that I am expecting.
Judd @ Apr 17th 2007 10:34PM
Good point Kazi. While this is not true for all games, like Gears of War, too many titles put in co-op on Live but don't bother putting it on the same system. Even with Gears of War which allows co-op on the same system, doesn't allow multiple players on the same system to play ranked games. Wasn't co-op supposed to be a major aspect of Crackdown? Damn it, you're giving me four controller ports. You're not allowing me to use more than one at a time?
Chris @ Apr 17th 2007 10:37PM
This isn't the first time Silicon Knights has put out a game with an awful framerate. Critics noted MGS: Twin Snakes' awful framerate during E3, and Dyack insisted it would be locked by the time of the release.
It of course was not locked in the release, as the game suffers from some of the worst slowdown in recent console memory.
scott @ Apr 17th 2007 10:37PM
Completely disagree Kazi, I work with people that live 45 minutes away, and we love being able to play things cooperatively. I agree, games should have at least 2 player coop on the console, but the 4 player over live is a huge feature to me and many others.
bVork @ Apr 17th 2007 10:44PM
I'm worried about three things.
First, the "cinematic" camera. Unless they have done something absolutely amazing and completely unheard of, the camera is going to be a problem. Cinematic camera angles are simply not suited to gameplay. Given the exploration aspects mentioned in the interview, I doubt the camera will be absolutely ideal for searching every single nook and cranny.
God of War's completely computer-controlled camera worked because the game is very linear. There was very little actual exploration (other than finding secrets hidden by the camera) involved. Most of the angles were overhead, as well. Overhead angles made it easy to judge melee distances, and prevented enemies from attacking off-screen. The gameplay footage of Too Human has fairly low camera angles compared to God of War. This looks nice but will probably pose a problem with melee distances and hidden enemy attacks.
Another issue is the repeated mention that Too Human will be a trilogy of games. This type of planning seems like the kiss of death when it comes to videogames. Advent Rising was going to be a trilogy and didn't get past the first game. Shenmue was planned as a huge series of games, and seems dead after the second game.
Finally, the framerate. Fix the goddamn framerate, either by improving the engine or cutting back on details. They mentioned a fusion of Western and Eastern game philosophies - this is one thing they should take from the Japanese. I find that many Western games look absolutely fantastic but tend to have less than ideal framerates. Lots of Japanese games run at a rock-solid 30 or 60 fps, but lack the same incredible detail that Western games have. When it comes to a hack-and-slash game like Too Human, framerate NEEDS to come before art.
Rated R @ Apr 17th 2007 10:50PM
I happen to think that MGS: Twin Snakes was one of the finest remakes ever. And Legacy of Kain is and always will be remembered fondly by gaming fans.
I trust that they'll be able to pull out a winner with this game, especially with how much hype its getting. Most people remember the game from its bad publicity from E3, but in all honesty, all publicity is good publicity, because atleast people remember the game, and now they're seeing a much different side to the game. So now that bad attention they got earlier is turning into good attention, and more people are paying attention to it.
One of the last things a game studio does is optimize the game. So I'm sure once they do that the framerates will get much better. The only thing
I was a little worried about was the camera, but after seeing the video and hearing what they had to say I'm much more confident it will be awesome.
Justin U @ Apr 17th 2007 10:52PM
Judd, technically, they only give you 3 controller ports.
Either way though, honestly, I'm an 'online' gamer, meaning that if it wasn't for online play, I probably wouldn't be the gamer that I am today.
And: That guy who says he struggles with camera angles is a baby. Get over it. Seriously, buck up and teach your camera who is boss.
James @ Apr 17th 2007 11:18PM
Coincidentally, I just played through Metal Gear Twin Snakes and didn't really notice any framerate dips beyon what is usual. Granted, that was 60 dipping to above 30, so maybe it is less noticable.
Striderhayasa @ Apr 17th 2007 11:19PM
A lot of great points made. One thing I have to say is I too, am a bit suspicious of Silicon Knights. Too Human sounds like it's trying to be one part God of War, One part Devil May Cry (which is still better than God of War IMO) with a little bit of Gears of War co-op plucked in for good measure. Stir and "poof", instant classic! Wrong.
I'm sick of developers that show unfinished product that looks suspect then gets pissed at gamers or reviewers for SAYING it looks suspect. Too Human looks suspect. Here's a tip SK, how about you don't show the game at all until you at least get the framerate locked and provide better animations for the characters. That's an idea, preview a game that actually runs at a smooth clip and has at least some sections of the game with a degree of polish so the public can get a better idea of what you're shooting for.
Overall, that video sucked. Can I get a Eternal Darkness 2 with Wiimote support now?
Pete C @ Apr 17th 2007 11:21PM
I wouldn't worry about the framerate. This game is FAR from release.
Striderhayasa @ Apr 17th 2007 11:23PM
@ james
I would prefer no framerate loss at all. I can't believe we are in a generation of hardware that is starting to rival the PC and we are still dealing with framerate issues. 60 frames per second would be gravy but some "next gen" games don't even hold a smooth 30 frames per second. It's a joke.
bounchfx @ Apr 17th 2007 11:31PM
This game is going to be really REALLY sick, you better believe it. all the depth and everything.. 4 player online co op!!
and I for one would MUCH rather have online co op than only same room, if given a choice.
I just hope that the controls for fighting arent too weird. then again when I played it earlier they seemed to have much potential.
imo almost every game should have some sort of online-co op..
but of course I agree that if the co op is online, for MOST titles it should be available offline as well..
but online is much more important.
kabes @ Apr 17th 2007 11:36PM
Read the preview, the interview, and watch the two videos before you judge.
Oh wait, it's blog commenters. I shouldn't have expected you to actually click the link before commenting.
Beastard @ Apr 17th 2007 11:38PM
Silicon, put this game out already. I want a Legacy of Kain and Eternal Darkness sequel already!
LongshotX @ Apr 17th 2007 11:56PM
I think this will be a classic if they pull this off, which for some reason now I'm pretty confident about.
Dark-Pen @ Apr 18th 2007 12:15AM
....I'm sure the game will be fun and all, but is it just me, or has Denis Dyack started to come off with a negative vibe? That photochopped webcomic on his ign blog isn't even funny. I don't understand these people that praise him.
Ever since that EGM Live podcast interview, I've just grown to dislike the guy. That podcast was so frustrating to listen to.
And is it just me, or is that camera WAY too close to his face? Jesus christ, zoom out, ZOOM OUT!
I liked Eternal Darkness, I liked MGS:TTS, and I'm sure this'll be a great game, but seriously? That podcast interview just pissed me off, and that comic he made is just retarded.
David @ Apr 18th 2007 12:28AM
This is like Duke Nukem Forever.
Tom @ Apr 18th 2007 12:43AM
@Striderhayasa
If you played Eternal Darkness then why do you assume Too Human is going to be part GOW and part DMC? Those are just action games with shallow, predictable stories. Eternal Darkness was not, nor was Legacy of Kain, for that matter. When Eternal Darkness first came out a lot of idiots dismissed and just being a Resident Evil clone. Silicon Knights games typically tell very deep and moving storylines, rivaling even the best Final Fantasy games. I mean, these are the people who made you freak out by telling you your Gamecube memory card was corrupt (due to your character's Insanity meter going too high.) They don't do mainstream. They don't play it safe and release mediocre crap like 90% of the developers out there. Anyone who gets this game will be pleasantly suprised. You could be the most jaded gamer in world, thinking you've got this game pegged, but this game will contain a whole lot of unexpected innovations. I'm gonna call it right now: 2007's (or 2008's) Game of the Year.
Bangbang... @ Apr 18th 2007 1:05AM
I dont like the way the camera works during combat. I think it would be a lot better if it zoomed in during close during combat like it did in the first trailer for the game. It would give you the feeling that your enemies overwhelming you, and draw you in closer to the action. Seeing the battle with the view pulled back makes the game look kind of...meh
dsub @ Apr 18th 2007 1:17AM
Kazi-
I don't know about you, but playing on the same console just doesn't sound very fun to me. First of all, in a game like Too Human you'd be forced to move around with your friends as one solid unit, all staying within the field of vision on screen. Something like that would severly hamper gameplay.
Not only that, but such a feat would be an immense workout on the 360, or any platform for that matter. Essentially, the 360 would be taking on the task of calculating and computing two to four separate individual actions all at once. The end result would be a co-op mode that would either have slowdowns in framerates, or dumbed-down graphics to compensate.
OR
You could make the game playable on co-op over system link or online and players could freely roam the environments on their own and not be constricted to the same screen. Not only that, but each system would only be responsible for the normal, single player computations and the game would run smoother and look better.
It's not just MS that is pushing games in this direction. It's the simple fact that there is just no real need for an all-on-one console multiplayer mode in a game like this. Sure, the FPS', Shooters, Sports, and Fighting games will ALWAYS have same-system multiplayer, because for the FPS' and Shooters, it's just common sense. As far as sports/fighting goes, both players are for the most part, always in the same field of view.
Get it?
Besides. This is the 21st century. People play games ONLINE now. Wake up and get with it. Whether you are playing online or via system link either way works out much better for a co-op game. All you need is another friend with a 360, an ethernet patch cord or a hub with regular cat-5 cable and a second TV and your set. Hell, I've even done system link on the same TV before by connecting both 360's to my 50" and running PIP split down the middle. It's just like splitscreen, only better.
maylon @ Apr 18th 2007 1:40AM
To anyone that has issues with the camera, if you check out the latest IGN screens, you will notice that the controls include a freelook function, probably thrown in for the exploratory aspect of the game, as for combat, I am not so sure. The framerate is very, very disappointing, so much that it looks to detract from the gameplay. This is what they have done with an extra year? I predict a flop of 'Waterworld' like proportions.
bounchfx @ Apr 18th 2007 1:46AM
I seriously don't understand how anyone can possibly fucking bitch about framerate. First of all, in the new video it looks stable as hell to me. I'll watch it again.
Second, they haven't even begun to optimize. What kind of ignorant people are you?
:O
perfectchaos @ Apr 18th 2007 2:14AM
Pete C is right. this game probably won't even come out until the next console cycle, on a system that has yet to be announced.
maxx @ Apr 18th 2007 2:21AM
@bVork and anyone else worried about the camera...
Just play Eternal Darkness sometime. Your worries should go away immediately. If there's one developer out of all the ones in the world today who understands game cameras, it's Silicon Knights. The camera work in Eternal Darkness was brilliant. You never had control of it and you didn't to. It always positioned itself perfectly. Even better, when you started losing your sanity, the camera would skew and shake, putting the world at odd angles (it's a common film technique to make you uneasy, just watch the scene in Die Hard where Bruce Willis meets up with Hans for the first time to see a perfect example). The camera never got so crazy that you would get disoriented or confused, it just simply worked and was completely unobtrusive.
Too Human looks like it's not exactly the same as Eternal Darkness in that you'll be fighting in much larger environments. But all the same, I have total faith in them. Just watching that IGN video proved to me that they still know how to handle the camera. They're the one developer I gladly relinquish control of the camera to. You don't even have to think about the game camera in their games (Metal Gear Solid remakes aside), it just simply works. It's a shame not many other developers take the effort.
NintendoFanbot @ Apr 18th 2007 2:30AM
I give Too Human 8 Nostrodamus points out of 10.
Maybe if they get past the first act, the 2 sequels will pick up the slack. But the first iteration is what needs to get people to stick with it.
bVork @ Apr 18th 2007 4:52AM
@maxx
I did play Eternal Darkness. Thanks for reminding me about that camera... I retract my comment on how exploration might be hindered by it.
I'm still worried about combat. Eternal Darkness's targeting system and limited enemies sidestepped this issue. Hopefully Too Human solves this problem too, though I can't see how a targeting system would work with the enemy mobs shown in the footage. I just hope that the camera isn't absolute garbage like Ninja Gaiden's - because unlike NG, Too Human doesn't appear to have manual control to fall back upon. I tried squinting at the really blurry shot of the 360 controller layout at 5:05, but couldn't spot anything that mentions camera control. There's probably a high resolution version of this on IGN's site - can anyone with an Insider subscription check the controller layout?
wackychan @ Apr 18th 2007 5:33AM
Games aren't really about online, me and my best chaps get together all the time and system link gears of war, halo 2, and rainbow six.
And by the way, live sucks donkey dicks, who wants to to that shit when you can have your actual friends playing with you. That is if you actually have friends! muhuhahaha!
bVork @ Apr 18th 2007 5:34AM
Ah-HA! There IS a freelook mode, though I don't think it will be very useful in combat: http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/748/748783/img_4473078.html
4G64 @ Apr 18th 2007 5:46AM
i'm only concerned with animation. framerate will most likely be addressed and the camera doesn't look bad to me. however, the lack of animation really concerns me. the characters movements look too stiff. there doesn't appear to be enough body movement to accentuate the attacks.
syco @ Apr 18th 2007 6:44AM
WTF does it matter what it looks like? I just hope it plays well, because it LOOKS like it does. And it also looks like it will have a really fantastic plot.
And I love the art style sooooooo much.
I will have a 360 by the time this comes out, if only for this. Super Puzzle Fighter on Live Arcade doesn't hurt either. And maybe some day Microsoft will let me play Panzer Dragoon Orta on it, too!
MacAoidh @ Apr 18th 2007 7:05AM
These comments disgust me.
Striderhayasa @ Apr 18th 2007 7:56AM
@ tom
because if you watch the video and listen to what Dennis Dyack said, two of their references for the combat and basic style of play are ...God of War and Devil May Cry. He mentioned them by name and went on to say that "Too Human will have it's own unique style..." blah blah blah. Like I mentioned in my earlier post..if this is the case as well as the whole idea of "keep in mind that the game is still in development", then show sections of the game that ARE truly different and are a bit more polished otherwise, I'm going to go by what I'm seeing and what I saw made me go "meh".
You're using Eternal Darkness as a gauge to say Too Human will be game of the year...whatever. Let me explain something to you, I finished, Eternal Darkness, I got the FULL ending with three play-throughs and I know there could be a sequel if SK wanted to make it since there is one BIG lose end at the full ending of the game. But I'm not going to delude myself into believing that past success gurantees future success. Tell that to Sega. With the bullshit nonsense of microtransactions, expense, some half-ass implementation of online gaming and publisher bullshit with the current gen of gaming, if anyone wants my money you better damn well prove that the game is worth it. At this point SK hasn't done that yet...maybe they will later...
Striderhayasa @ Apr 18th 2007 8:02AM
@4g64
my sentiments exactly.
Matiesz @ Apr 18th 2007 8:43AM
Didn't Double Dragon had a similar Co-op? Like, You pressed start and POOF the second player jumped in. So yeah «revolutionary»...
KilgoreTrout XL @ Apr 18th 2007 8:54AM
All this puffery that the devs spew, this revolutionary yada-yada, just goes in one ear and out the other with me. I'd rather just watch gameplay vids.
From what I saw in the IGN vid, if they get the framerate down (which I bet they will) the game looks like fun.
Jake @ Apr 18th 2007 9:10AM
This game has some serious potential imo. Silicon Knights have pulled off good games before. They seem to be borrowing elements from a lot of great games and combining them into something that ends up being unique. This video made me actually anticipate the game.
And to Kazi, I see the point you are trying to make, but this is not an example to try to make it. This game is an action RPG. They typically are single player only, like DMC or God of War, or Zelda, etc. Adding online multi is actually bringing people together to game. Just because it isn't split screen (which I don't much care for anyways). And remember, MS isn't developing this game, Sil Knights is. So don't try to bitch like MS is taking the multiplayer out of games.
t_m @ Apr 18th 2007 9:30AM
hmmm.. can't put my finger on it, but it just doesn't look that exciting.
Space norse mythology should rock. ninja gaiden combat plus diablo rpg should rock. eternal darkness rocked. but something about this doesn't feel right... it feels more lightweight and generic than epic.
Maybe its the automatic camera (which we've been promised before so many times, but has never materialised). Maybe its just too many sweeping camera shots.
ah well, i won't lose sleep over it...
BlindsideDork @ Apr 18th 2007 11:13AM
Shouldn't they get the single player working before working on Co-Op?
demifiend @ Apr 18th 2007 12:34PM
This could be good, it could be crap. I'm holding out hope for good. I enjoy Norse mythology and think that the sci-fi twist to this setting could work really well. The co-op sounds like a spectacular idea, if they can make it work properly.
And bounchfx sounds like a pimp for XBox live who needs to work on his grammar.
Sidepocket @ Apr 18th 2007 12:42PM
Ok, first with Lair, now with this game....
Why....WHY do developers say "Fantastic Next-Gen HD Visuals! We can render this and that."
Yet the acting in all next-gen games are some were between a High School play and the Star Wars Prequels.
Devs, work on the animation and the acting. If you are not going to improve the acting from last gen, then WTF are you swooning over graphics?
Bleh!
maxx @ Apr 19th 2007 12:30AM
@bVork, thanks for that link. I was trying to figure out the controls from the video as well, but it was no use. It looks like you have to stop walking around if you want to use free-look. I don't think they're going to hide items in the corners of the rooms, so I doubt the free-look will be useful for much anything but trying to check out the graphics and level design. The fact that you have to hold the Back button tells me that they don't think it's going to be used much.
To the person who said Eternal Darkness is no guarantee this will be a good game, you're exactly right. Even the greats sometimes falter. Still, they have a great history, so it's less likely that it would suck than if it were an unproven developer. The most likely scenario is that this game will be over-critized because it's by Silicon Knights, and we'll all lament over how it's not as good as we hoped it would be. And then 5 years later we'll be saying "damn, that game was truly underappreciated."
Linc @ Apr 19th 2007 11:34AM
Gamers can forgive most anything if the final game is good, but it has to be good. It hardly helps Dyack seem to enjoy having childish spats with the people sent to preview e3 displays. If Silicon Knights were smart they allow the game to speka for itself, but fist take a little reposnibility for what was displayed at e3 2006. I had forgotten Too Human's e3 deplay, until Dennis Dyack decided to not "own" his mistakes. Now, I feel like the game has an up hill battle to get over the mess Dyack has made.