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Reader Comments (23)

Posted: Apr 18th 2007 1:29AM (Unverified) said

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Translation: software emulation allows upscaling trickery.

It's nice to see the Europeans at least get a bonus for losing out on some backwards compatibility.

Cue negative spin in 3...2...1...
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Posted: Apr 18th 2007 1:37AM (Unverified) said

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Damn. I don't understand everything you said.
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Posted: Apr 18th 2007 1:45AM dr steve brule said

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pssh that's not HD. HD is 1080p
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Posted: Apr 18th 2007 3:06AM meegoo said

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Riiiight, I think what we should all learn from this is that it's about damn time to standardize tv resolutions and refresh rates so it's not so confusing.
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Posted: Apr 18th 2007 2:39AM (Unverified) said

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This is exactly why emulation is sometimes better than a BC chip.
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Posted: Apr 18th 2007 3:01AM (Unverified) said

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But GOW2 is a PS2 game. On a PAL PS2 (you know, the hardware most people own), you can't get progressive out of it. On an NTSC PS2 you can. So fuck you Sony Europe and your "explanation".

Most likely it's out, because in PAL territories you'd have to render in 576p and the PS2 couldn't handle that (since it's already pretty choppy at almost-480p).
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Posted: Apr 18th 2007 3:06AM (Unverified) said

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unless 360 does it! ...

ok, enough of that.....PAL has always been better definition than NTSC, and its not true emulation, as they kept the PS2 graphic chip (ie. the hard part) in the euro PS3s. reading is fundamental.

.
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Posted: Apr 18th 2007 3:48AM (Unverified) said

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Yes, standardise them to PAL - it's the superior format.
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Posted: Apr 18th 2007 4:40AM (Unverified) said

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I'm pretty sure the only difference in Europe and US HD Broadcasts is Europe's refresh rate is 50hz and here in the states we use 60hz. So I guess in a way we will be standardized in the next few years? Correct me if I am wrong.
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Posted: Apr 18th 2007 5:57AM DrXym said

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Very few if any Euro games offer progressive scan games. The higher res of PAL and the almost non-existence of 576p SD sets mean there is no point. Anyway I don't know what the bother is about for PAL - no you don't get the 640x448, instead you get 512x512 which means you get more vertical lines instead of the US which gets more horizontal lines. I expect the difference is subjective but comparable.

And if you have a PS3 and an HD set, you can play games in 576p. Sounds pretty good really.

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Posted: Apr 18th 2007 6:03AM (Unverified) said

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SONY ditches Europeans again and a surprisingly high number continues to enjoy it...
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Posted: Apr 18th 2007 6:31AM SSUK said

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CNash - Indeed.

Thundernad - Well, unfortunatly you're a bit wrong, PAL hasn't been souly 50Hz since about 1998 maybe even before that when PAL 60Hz was introduced. It took the refreshrate of NTSC with the quality of PAL and made a superiror TV mode. Of course, the PS2 doesn't actually DO PAL 60Hz, it just goes into NTSC, utter laziness on Sony's part. Plus, most EU games go into 50Hz PAL mode by default with no option to change it or anything. I often put 50Hz only games into Swap Magic to get them to run at 60Hz NTSC. I mean, for gods sake the DREAMCAST could do 60Hz PAL.

But anyway, for those who like GoW this is probably the best EU PS3 news I've ever heard. We're actually getting something for that ridiculous price tag we're paying... Shame it's probably the ONLY good news we'll have out of it.
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Posted: Apr 18th 2007 8:15AM (Unverified) said

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Hakobus, personally owning a PAL PS2 and running a (small) number of PS2 games in 480p (as confirmed by my TV), PAL PS2s can certainly do 480p.

The problem being, as already mentioned, that it more often than not gets cut from PAL versions of games.

The additional problem being, the PS2 is nowhere near as good at running 480p as say the Xbox, or the already existant deinterlacing/upscaling chip present in all HDTVs. Remember there's no viewing interlaced content on your LCD or whatnot anyway, it has a built in deinterlacer, and unless your HDTV is old and cheap, it's probably better than the PS2s.

The difference in 480p and 480i on my newer HDTV from my PS2 was so negligible I never bothered using it, it's also why those "upscaling boot discs" suck ass, I don't trust my PS2 to upscale anything, let my TV do it because it has to anyway. Compare it to the Xbox however, 480p looked hella nicer, 720p was obviously a far better picture, as it was done natively anyway (in the few games supporting it).

And it's a bit late to start standardising NTSC/PAL, it'd take years, just let existing HD standards become the norm in 5-10 years. If people don't care about HD they probably won't care about standardising the two SD formats either.
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Posted: Apr 18th 2007 8:58AM (Unverified) said

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11. SONY ditches Europeans again and a surprisingly high number continues to enjoy it...

THere goes the spin.
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Posted: Apr 18th 2007 9:30AM TRTX said

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And this is why I really just don't care about all the 1080p's and 576i's...because it's just too dang confusing.
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Posted: Apr 18th 2007 9:38AM JayVe said

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"We cut something from your PS2 game, but if you play it on a PS3, you can have it back."

What about everyone who has a PS2 and no PS3?
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Posted: Apr 18th 2007 9:46AM (Unverified) said

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If I lived in Europe (or at least England), I'd be importing all my games and consoles.
Not worth dealing with PAL issues, if you ask me.
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Posted: Apr 18th 2007 10:54AM (Unverified) said

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samfish, that is why I try to mod my consoles for mad importiness, apart from the times when we get bonuses of course, like when games support 60Hz PAL, progressive scan (which look better than their NTSC counterparts), or just get more features like FFX (loads more bosses), MGS (European Extreme), and other very occasional extras.

It's not as bad this side of the pond as you think.

Diman, Kamalot, to be honest if you cared about the minor bump from 576i (deinterlaced by your TV to 576p anyways) to 480p with full buffers (with slowdown to boot), I think you're the kind of techie that should be buying the new HD consoles.

I seriously don't know anyone in their right mind who'd sacrifice framerate for the gain of so few lines anyway.
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Posted: Apr 18th 2007 12:44PM Zoidbot said

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Before all the rabid fanboys start calling up Sony, please understand, this is purely down to the difference beween PAL and NTSC.

The European PAL format has always been higher definition that NTSC, Sony have done no tricks here...
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Posted: Apr 18th 2007 1:11PM (Unverified) said

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When will people stop confusing DTV resolutions for HDTV resolutions? 480p is NOT high-definition! High definition include 720p, 1080i, 1080p and all at native 16:9 aspect ratio. Geezuz...
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Posted: Apr 18th 2007 2:04PM (Unverified) said

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I thought HD was anything 720p and higher resolutions...
Then again, Sony is known for talking out of their collective asses
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Posted: Apr 18th 2007 2:31PM (Unverified) said

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Freejack, Earl, actually read the comment made by Sony Europe, specifically calling it ED. Which is what it is.

The creators themselves coined the phrase "HD code", because they know people don't expect 720p from their PS2 machines. They just took a little extra to add a few lines to the progressive mode of the game, and it's slightly better even than what one expects of Enhanced Definition, so it's just a bit of positive spin. Either that, or downplay it by calling it ED, or say "480p plus a little more", they're just using words the average consumer can understand.

"GoW2! Now with a secret code to make it a little more Enhanced Definition!"

Rolls off the tongue, don't it?
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Posted: Apr 19th 2007 3:10AM Slashee the Cow said

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You guys do know that PAL and NTSC pretty much the same when it comes to amount of detail.

Let's consider the maths:
(720x576)x50(PAL) = 20736000
(720x480)x60(NTSC) = 20736000

For 576p and 480p, just halve those numbers.

It's exactly the same amount of data being pumped through those flexible cables, so it's really a matter of preference.

As for PAL 60hz, yes, that would have more detail (unless you're running NTSC at 72hz), but not that many SDTVs support it (only one in my house does and that's because I got it recently).
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