When the guys at Llamma got their hands on an Xbox 360 Elite some ten days before the (already broken) street date, they gutted it quicker than Han slicing open a tauntaun. Their first notable discovery: the Hitachi GDR-3120L DVD drive. To be honest, we expected to see the newer (and "super-quiet") BenQ VAD6038 but the guys at Llamma poo-poo our desires claiming, "... there are no flashing utilities available [for the BenQ] at the moment so there is no ability to replace the DVD drive or use this as a parts motherboard." Sure, we were just hoping for a quieter drive though. They continue.
Like divorcing Han Solo from his carbonite tomb, the bounty hunters at Llamma pulled the new and improved motherboard from its black shell and proceeded to pore over its silicon surface, documenting every facet and imagining what it would look like in golden bikini. What did they discover here? First, what appears to be a quick-n-dirty fix for the RROD: some epoxy around the CPU and GPU. The big question: while both chips are different revisions from the current models, they can't be certain if this indicates a die-shrink to the 65nm promised land though they state there's a "good possibility" it does. Remember, Microsoft's Albert Pinello told us the Elite would use the "same components" as the existing Xbox 360 consoles, so we're gonna wait for a definitive answer on this one.
[Thanks, l3ftonm3]
Reader Comments (35)
Posted: Apr 20th 2007 2:37PM (Unverified) said
"like Han slicing open a Ton-ton"
For shame, Christopher, for shame.
Reply
For shame, Christopher, for shame.
Posted: Apr 20th 2007 2:37PM (Unverified) said
IT'S TAUNTAUN.
(AND I'M NOT ANGRY, IT'S JUST IT'S ALL-CAPS DAY, SORRY)
Reply
(AND I'M NOT ANGRY, IT'S JUST IT'S ALL-CAPS DAY, SORRY)
Posted: Apr 20th 2007 2:35PM (Unverified) said
w00t! I'm hoping this is the end of the RROD plague.
Reply
Posted: Apr 20th 2007 2:39PM chrisgrant said
DAMMIT! GOOGLE COULDN'T AGREE HOW TO SPELL IT BUT THEY NEVER SUGGESTED TAUNTAUN!
THANKS MIKEAWESOME!
Reply
THANKS MIKEAWESOME!
Posted: Apr 20th 2007 2:57PM (Unverified) said
First person to make a fanboyish comment officially surrenders their manhood.
But I really wish they would have made more improvements before they released a new version, I want a console that allows me to actually hear my games over it's fan...
Reply
But I really wish they would have made more improvements before they released a new version, I want a console that allows me to actually hear my games over it's fan...
Posted: Apr 20th 2007 3:00PM (Unverified) said
"In our opinion the Xbox 360 Elite is the best value in gaming to date. Not only do you get the 120GB hard drive and HDMI port but Microsoft spares no expense and included a nice HDMI cable AND the original HD/SD combo cable. This truly was a surprise to see both cables included with the Elite and is very appreciated. The black case, controller and accessories are very sexy. Microsoft has a winner with the Xbox 360 Elite!
-TheJT
-TheLamma"
Can you kiss any more ass? Did Microsoft pay this guy or what? It i still a rip-off for it's price. Come On!
Reply
-TheJT
-TheLamma"
Can you kiss any more ass? Did Microsoft pay this guy or what? It i still a rip-off for it's price. Come On!
Posted: Apr 20th 2007 2:59PM (Unverified) said
Quiter or not, the elites gonna be playing me a copy of FFXIII
http://www.ps3center.net/story-394.html
Reply
http://www.ps3center.net/story-394.html
Posted: Apr 20th 2007 3:05PM (Unverified) said
There are 2 reasons to buy the Elite:
1 - larger HDD
2 - HDMI
(black is a sad "feature")
If you are buying it for HDMI.. why in the world would you care if they included the normal component cables?
Reply
1 - larger HDD
2 - HDMI
(black is a sad "feature")
If you are buying it for HDMI.. why in the world would you care if they included the normal component cables?
Posted: Apr 20th 2007 3:09PM (Unverified) said
Although I doubt it's a 65nm processor, if it was, they might solidfy a new purchase from me. I still want to hold out until a price drop though. It's getting difficult cause most of my gaming friends are on Live.
Reply
Posted: Apr 20th 2007 3:21PM (Unverified) said
"I want a console that allows me to actually hear my games over it's fan..."
The problem isn't the console then, it's your speakers... :P
Reply
The problem isn't the console then, it's your speakers... :P
Posted: Apr 20th 2007 3:21PM (Unverified) said
"DAMMIT! GOOGLE COULDN'T AGREE HOW TO SPELL IT BUT THEY NEVER SUGGESTED TAUNTAUN!"
You don't have a copy of The Empire Strikes Back the book, -10 geek points for you. It's Tauntaun, I just checked.
Reply
You don't have a copy of The Empire Strikes Back the book, -10 geek points for you. It's Tauntaun, I just checked.
Posted: Apr 20th 2007 3:21PM (Unverified) said
"I still want to hold out until a price drop though. It's getting difficult cause most of my gaming friends are on Live."
With microsoft, price drops have always come in either may, or november. So if it ain't in may, be prepared to hold out for another 6 months.
Reply
With microsoft, price drops have always come in either may, or november. So if it ain't in may, be prepared to hold out for another 6 months.
Posted: Apr 20th 2007 3:34PM (Unverified) said
I totally agree with Piemaster. They missed a golden opportunity to fix the noise problem, which is a big one. A console that sounds like a hair dryer is total BS.
Reply
Posted: Apr 20th 2007 3:38PM (Unverified) said
@Lord Chako
Actually, I think if they don't drop it before Halo 3, it ain't dropping until after the holiday. With Halo 3 and GTAIV, why bother? Gonna sell a crap load of consoles between October to December. And with rumors of a fall release for Halo 3 (August/September), 360 will see much better months thnn this previous NPD, which was disappointing to say the least.
Reply
Actually, I think if they don't drop it before Halo 3, it ain't dropping until after the holiday. With Halo 3 and GTAIV, why bother? Gonna sell a crap load of consoles between October to December. And with rumors of a fall release for Halo 3 (August/September), 360 will see much better months thnn this previous NPD, which was disappointing to say the least.
Posted: Apr 20th 2007 3:40PM (Unverified) said
If they were 65nm chips they would be alot smaller
These are the same size, but probably a respin (a smal redesign to the core architecture) and reduce the power draw.
Reply
These are the same size, but probably a respin (a smal redesign to the core architecture) and reduce the power draw.
Posted: Apr 20th 2007 3:43PM (Unverified) said
there is fix running in some forums in brazil for the 3RL (or RROD), made by a guy named chiaroscuro (or something like that). it consists on putting a regular eraser over those memory chips around the GPU and CPU.
it seems like after some months of heat, those chips gets a little loose and "fall" a little from the board.
i was hoping they had that fixed on the Elite, but it doesn't seem so...
my 360 died from error 0102 (if you know what it means) and i had it back this way. it works most of the times and people have been doing this for months since the first one came back from death (and never died again).
if anyone needs this tutorial let me know. i think someone already translated that to english.
Reply
it seems like after some months of heat, those chips gets a little loose and "fall" a little from the board.
i was hoping they had that fixed on the Elite, but it doesn't seem so...
my 360 died from error 0102 (if you know what it means) and i had it back this way. it works most of the times and people have been doing this for months since the first one came back from death (and never died again).
if anyone needs this tutorial let me know. i think someone already translated that to english.
Posted: Apr 20th 2007 3:44PM sand0789 said
Piemaster, I hope the irony in your post was intentional. I guess I never notice the noise when playing a game and I don't have the volume that high.
Ebolaboi, just because his opinion is pro-360 doesn't make him a fanboy. He just has a different opinion than you.
Konny, if you were purchasing the Elite just for HDMI, you wouldn't really need the analog cables. The thing is, not everyone is purchasing it just for the cables. The vast majority of buyers will be new 360 owners, and they will select it for larger HDD, HDMI, and/or black color. Most people don't have an HDTV, but they could still buy the Elite for large HDD and play on an SD tv with component.
Reply
Ebolaboi, just because his opinion is pro-360 doesn't make him a fanboy. He just has a different opinion than you.
Konny, if you were purchasing the Elite just for HDMI, you wouldn't really need the analog cables. The thing is, not everyone is purchasing it just for the cables. The vast majority of buyers will be new 360 owners, and they will select it for larger HDD, HDMI, and/or black color. Most people don't have an HDTV, but they could still buy the Elite for large HDD and play on an SD tv with component.
Posted: Apr 21st 2007 2:29AM (Unverified) said
So basically all this "Elite" 360 has is a bigger HDD...
Whats so great about that oh wait I remember all that QQing about the PS3 and its price.
Microsoft take you all for fools.
Reply
Whats so great about that oh wait I remember all that QQing about the PS3 and its price.
Microsoft take you all for fools.
Posted: Apr 20th 2007 5:49PM (Unverified) said
having both cables is great, I can leave the HDMI cable on the HDTV and leave the component cable plugged in the bedroom TV. So that is why I care that both cables are included.
Reply
Posted: Apr 20th 2007 4:37PM (Unverified) said
Neal, grow up or get off this board.
For me (have a 360 of course) the main allure was the bigger HD, HDMI isn't factor (VGA is just as good) but the big one was going to be newer chips/fans/etc.... this is a major letdown for me....
Reply
For me (have a 360 of course) the main allure was the bigger HD, HDMI isn't factor (VGA is just as good) but the big one was going to be newer chips/fans/etc.... this is a major letdown for me....
Posted: Apr 20th 2007 4:45PM (Unverified) said
my notes on the new board:
gaurantee it is not 65nm... the die of the cpu would be smaller.
A thing to note about the coils: there are less turns which means that the current passing through the coils is greater...
Also three mosfets are missing on the new board, noted on the right side. This means they chose to use a three phase power supply instead of a four phase, Note three per coil. Generally, the more phases the less ripple/noise for the power output.
The capacitors are all different, all skinnier now; note that this probably means they went with a higher voltage rating or less farads.
The amount of surface mount caps next to the cpu has increased. This is most likely from the switch from 4 phase power to 3 phase power.
Generally looks like they are cutting costs across the board ;) pun intended.
Oh and the epoxy to prevent board warping is painfully hillarious!!!!
Reply
gaurantee it is not 65nm... the die of the cpu would be smaller.
A thing to note about the coils: there are less turns which means that the current passing through the coils is greater...
Also three mosfets are missing on the new board, noted on the right side. This means they chose to use a three phase power supply instead of a four phase, Note three per coil. Generally, the more phases the less ripple/noise for the power output.
The capacitors are all different, all skinnier now; note that this probably means they went with a higher voltage rating or less farads.
The amount of surface mount caps next to the cpu has increased. This is most likely from the switch from 4 phase power to 3 phase power.
Generally looks like they are cutting costs across the board ;) pun intended.
Oh and the epoxy to prevent board warping is painfully hillarious!!!!
Posted: Apr 20th 2007 4:51PM chrisgrant said
Consider this a warning, Neal. Next time, you're banned.
Reply
Posted: Apr 20th 2007 5:14PM (Unverified) said
JESUS CHRIST WHAT IS IT WITH YOU GUYS AND YOUR STAR WARS-REFERENCES
Reply
Posted: Apr 20th 2007 7:19PM (Unverified) said
Judging from the comparison images of the motherboard, there has clearly been some very real changes. Will they cut costs? We can hope, but what I want to know is not what this is doing for costs, but what it's doing for performance. If these cost-cuts come at the price of say... a higher power bill, or a louder machine, is it really worth it to the consumer? I want lower costs, better performance, and if possible lower of equal power consumption.
Oh, and for anyone in the know, like NickMali (for example), I'd love to know what we can expect, and as such I'd also love to hear your thoughts on what I just mentioned.
Reply
Oh, and for anyone in the know, like NickMali (for example), I'd love to know what we can expect, and as such I'd also love to hear your thoughts on what I just mentioned.
Posted: Apr 21st 2007 12:36AM (Unverified) said
I don't need another vacuum cleaner, so I'm still holding out for a super quiet version.
Reply
Posted: Apr 21st 2007 5:49PM (Unverified) said
@ 14,19
I was saying that the fan is loud, but also, I don't like it when I'm playing Gears of War at 4 AM and I wake someone up because the TV is too loud.
Reply
I was saying that the fan is loud, but also, I don't like it when I'm playing Gears of War at 4 AM and I wake someone up because the TV is too loud.
Posted: Apr 21st 2007 8:46AM (Unverified) said
Ali, that's exactly why millions of happy 360 premium owners will stay happy not having to buy the Elite.
.
Reply
.
Posted: Apr 21st 2007 4:25PM GoonieGooGoo said
@ Ali
If you are a gamer..... There are zero reasons not to have one.....good games and variety, affordable hardware, great online services.
My PS3 experience has improved recently.....though its ironic that the game I've ended up playing the most is MORTAL KOMBAT 2......yes it plays wonderfully online.
FOr Wii......Suffice to say.....Super Paper Mario = pure joy.
So basically the only reason to Poo Poo on any other system is that you just don't have enough money to own them all.......which is ok for a deprived fanboy like you I guess.
Reply
If you are a gamer..... There are zero reasons not to have one.....good games and variety, affordable hardware, great online services.
My PS3 experience has improved recently.....though its ironic that the game I've ended up playing the most is MORTAL KOMBAT 2......yes it plays wonderfully online.
FOr Wii......Suffice to say.....Super Paper Mario = pure joy.
So basically the only reason to Poo Poo on any other system is that you just don't have enough money to own them all.......which is ok for a deprived fanboy like you I guess.
Posted: Apr 22nd 2007 10:56PM master chief said
I don't mind the noise. My 360 is actually LOUDER than normal since I set the fans to full speed. My problem is with the rate at which these machines are failing. Mine doesn't work, I salvaged it from a friend, it quit booting and had the ROD.. Problem was, the heatsink clip broke off a CPU resistor. I replaced and it boots, but the 360 will freeze if I try to play a game DVD, demos from the HDD play fine.
I still refuse to purchase a system I'm not sure that it turn on the next time I want to play a game. I'll stick with my "reliable" consoles for now
Reply
I still refuse to purchase a system I'm not sure that it turn on the next time I want to play a game. I'll stick with my "reliable" consoles for now
Posted: Apr 23rd 2007 9:44AM (Unverified) said
"Oh, and for anyone in the know, like NickMali (for example), I'd love to know what we can expect, and as such I'd also love to hear your thoughts on what I just mentioned."
It seems to me that they are just making it cheaper. This doesn't mean less quality just cutting corners slightly. They probably shaved a good $10-$20 off the cost to offset the inclusion of the upgraded scalar chip and the hdmi connector. It most likely costs around the same as the premium board.
Things like these don't usually change power consumption on a grand scale. Scince the cpu and gpu are the same I'd gather that the power consumption would only be a watt or two different. Though this sets them up for a good price cut once the 65nm tapes out and enters production.
Reply
It seems to me that they are just making it cheaper. This doesn't mean less quality just cutting corners slightly. They probably shaved a good $10-$20 off the cost to offset the inclusion of the upgraded scalar chip and the hdmi connector. It most likely costs around the same as the premium board.
Things like these don't usually change power consumption on a grand scale. Scince the cpu and gpu are the same I'd gather that the power consumption would only be a watt or two different. Though this sets them up for a good price cut once the 65nm tapes out and enters production.
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