PSP at the top of handheld evolution

whats a nomad

awwwwww everyone knows that the psp is the best handheld system ever created... but with that power, what new innovation has it brought to the video gaming table.. it's just a ps2, in portable fashion. Now... being portable isn't anything new. The psp would have been better served if it would allow for user generated content (homebrew). Allow homebrew, but stop piracy... that should be Sony's goal... not stopping homebrew all together...

the psp has a lot of innovation, from ps1 titles, streaming content from ps3, web browser...

take that 333 mhz of energy/effort and put it back into the psp... let get more ps1 games up, more psp colors.. let get those downloadable movies up and running...

"what new innovation..?"


Thomas, you're kidding right? You must have never had a gameboy.

Not in the article but I just worked it out:

Atari Lynx: $312 in today's dollars
Gameboy: $148 in today's dollars
Game Gear: $236 in today's dollars
Sega Nomad: $237 in today's dollars
GBA: $114 in today's dollars
NGage: $330 in today's dollars
DS: $130
PSP: $170

(I've rounded up to the next dollar in all cases)

A pure mhz count is not necessarily indicative of the power of the handheld, there's graphical power and work done per cycle to factor in as well. Still: is it news that the psp is more powerful than the DS, etc.

Of course this isn't news ...

Sad thing is, if there was a load time chart it would look like the MHz chart ;) UMD might be high-capacity, but boy is it ever a pig ...

>certainly an eye-opener

Heh? Which part were you not aware of? Screen size? CPU speed? An eye opener - perhaps to somebody who has never seen a PSP...

Michael

Uhhh... how is this an eye-opener? Did we need a graph for this? Shock! The PSP is a hundred times faster than the original gameboy! I hadn't expected such technological advancement over a nearly 20 year-old system!

And I don't think there's a soul out there that isn't aware of the fact that the PSP is a far more powerful system than even the DS.

They skipped the GP2X in that list? Dual ARM processors@200 with no overclocking? I would think that would give all of those systems save possibly the PSP a run for the money.

http://wiki.gp2x.org/wiki/Main_Page

Most hand held gamers already knew this except for the 10 million kiddies that don't have a clue and just want Mario... I don't think the above graph is accurate at all. The Atari Lynx and the Game Gear both ran at 3.6 Mzh and had custom chips whereas the pathetic GB ran at only 2.2. Sure it won out in the end, not because of the hardware by no means IMO was more due to marketing much in the same manner the DS is outselling the PSP.

PSP is the ultimate power in the Hand Held Universe I suggest we use it...

txa1265, brain training on the DS has the worst load times I have ever experienced. Not surprising since the DS is nearly two gameboys duct tapped together and brain training, amusingly enough, heavily taxes the system.

btw, I clicked the link with my eyes wide open.

Re: required - are you talking 'Brain Age'? I'll have to check it out (have it at home). Top Spin 2 for the DS is my worst one - it takes forever to load and runs (and looks) like crap.

But I know you have suggested that the DS has longer load times and shorter battery life than the PSP before. Sorry, but that is utter nonsense - you can likely find games (like above) that have longer loads than some PSP games. But I can name at least three dozen mainstream PSP games that have longer start-to-game times and level load times than *any* DS game. And that is no surprise - one is reading flash storage and the other from a rotating disc ... the physics make it impossible for the PSP to win that battle, especially since it has to load more data to feed the hungry screen.

"you can likely find games (like above) that have longer loads than some PSP games." - txa1265

txa1265, that alone validates my comment, and removes it from being "utter nonsense".

The PSP pulls the same amount of data off its UMD and processes it quicker than the DS can pull data off its little card and process it. This is due to how all around underpowered the DS is, it simply can't work with data as fast as the PSP can.

@Stef...

It is an 'eye opener' for those wishing to compare systems over time that might never have heard of some of the older systems not just the current DS VS PSP issue.

It was nice to go down memory lane and see how my old LYNX compared to my current PSP.

The Atai Lynx is part of my collection and still gets some playtime! Much more than the GB..

Here is some info from my site that shows some more comparisons as well

http://www.trekstersdomain.com/lynx_ii.htm

Why do people even try to compare load times between DS and PSP??? Apples and Oranges. Of course the UMD takes longer, even if it was flash like the DS it would take longer as there is MUCH MORE DATA to load as the PSP has vastly more memory. I own almost 20 games and out of the them all Star Wars Battlefront II has the longest load times but in comparison to the PC it's does not have a long load time at all. The rest of my collection load times have never been an issue. Here is a great comparison, name me a DS/PSP game (same title)& compare how long they take to load, and compare how they look. You will not find a game that fits this description as there are no comparable DS games even come close to the look of a PSP game of the same name.

txa1265, that alone validates my comment, and removes it from being "utter nonsense".

So, by that logic I can cite a single DS game that looks better than a single PSP game and claim that the DS has better graphics ... ? That is *exactly* what you are doing, y'know.

"That is *exactly* what you are doing, y'know."

No it is not. I simply called you out for making a mountain out of a mole hill (few games have load times worth mentioning).

I'm curious now that you mention it, what game do you feel looks better on the DS than it does on the PSP?

Lunar Knights on the DS looks better than Generation of Chaos on the PSP ... in fact, it also looks better than Ys: Ark of Nephitshim.

Seriously, there are less than a half-dozen PSP games with load-times under 30 seconds for a level, and less than a half dozen DS games with load times of more than 5 seconds for a level. The DS acts like a handheld and the PSP like a console. On multiplatform games I've player (Madden, Tiger, Test Drive, Snoopy, etc) the PSP takes longer than the PC to load!

I just have no idea how you can claim that load times aren't significant - it takes an order of magnitude longer on most PSP games than on most DS games. That is why I say that your claim is as ridiculous as my claiming that the DS has better graphics. The DS has worse graphics. The PSP has worse load times.

OK ... we've gone far enough afield ...

This year not only have we already seen great looking games for the PSP, but we've seen ones that stream load in the background, making the user experience nearly seamless. We've also seen games doing a better job of optimizing for the controls they have to deal with. I hope we see more of that during the rest of the year - take advantage of that massive power!

txa1265
"Seriously, there are less than a half-dozen PSP games with load-times under 30 seconds for a level"

That is such a load of crap
-Ridge Racer
-outrun 2006
-MOHH
Activision Classics (loads all of the games at once no wait)
-Mercury Meltdown
-Godfather Mobwars
-Test Drive Unlimited
-Namco Battle Collection
-Midway Arcade Treasures
-Star Trek Tactical Assault (under 10 secs per level and as normal kicks DS's ass in every way)

Gee thats just some titles out of my collection that load very fast, Seriously txa1265 do your homework
before spewing your misinformation.

"Seriously, there are less than a half-dozen PSP games with load-times under 30 seconds for a level"

That's one of the stupidest, most generalized things I've ever read here.

I agree that there's too many PSP games that have excessive or tiresome load times, but there's certainly more than SIX that have less than 30 sec. or more level loads.

OK, fanboys, WAKE UP - can you remove your blinders long enough (thanks, pixelator for being a voice of reason) to admit that the PSP load times are *significantly* longer than the DS? I'm incredulous at the reality distortion field you have all put up ... I mean, remember the article *here* just a few months ago?

http://playstation.joystiq.com/2006/10/19/load-times-quantified-by-gamespot/
Quote: " * The three quickest loading games were Astonishia Story, Gradius Collection and Lumines. They took up to 55 seconds to load.
* The longest loading game is (unsurprisingly) WWE Smackdown!: more than four minutes for that game.
* Games with the highest ratings on GameSpot had the shortest load times. Joystiq asks "Does this show that reviewers appreciate short load times, or just that better games tend to be designed to load faster?" I'd say both hold true, but as games like GTA and Daxter show, developers that care about the PSP know how to get around load times.
* The average load time for cartridge-based DS? 24.5 seconds. The average load time for UMD-based PSP? 103.4 seconds."

And I'm sorry, PSP_Rising, but I've reviewed more than 75 PSP games in past two years including many of those you cite, and several are examples of long loads - like TDU and MoHH ... heck, Call of Duty and Madden take longer to *wake up* than *ANY* DS load time ...

Being new to the PSP world I have yet to experience a load time that I thought was 'excessive', perhaps I've been condtioned by my console? (Though I DO own every Gameboy except the DS)

I've bought Lumines/HotShot/SOCOM/WipEOut and don't have a 'problem' with them. If I'm going to play the same game for a few days I just leave the psp in sleep mode and it seems to wake up and be ready to play in about 5 seconds. Isn't this what everyone does?

Look folks... discs have load times... they always have, and always will.

Another thing not mentioned in detail in the article is the external memory on the PSP. One frustrating thing to me as a PC gamer is that my handhelds (original GB and later GBA) had such limited save game capability. My kids are playing the new Pokemon DS games, and I'm playing Izuna (an under-rated rogue-like), and all of the games allow a *single* save! (yes I know it is a Pokemon tradition, but who cares!).

I love having tons of saves, and the PSP makes it possible for me to keep saves for games I rent as well as buy and just leave them on the system.

txa1265 you state:
"And I'm sorry, PSP_Rising, but I've reviewed more than 75 PSP games in past two years including many of those you cite, and several are examples of long loads - like TDU and MoHH ... heck, Call of Duty and Madden take longer to *wake up* than *ANY* DS load time ... "

You need to read what you have typed, I was referring to your ridiculous statement that there are less than a dozen games for the psp that take less than 30 seconds to load a level, this was your comment and it was flat out wrong, I don't care if you have reviewed a million games your misinformation is typical of your blind devotion to your DS. As far as Pixelator putting this into perspective he eludes to some idea that there are so many PSP that have excessive load times and yet that is another load of crap. Yes the PSP takes longer to load games as they are MUCH bigger than DS games and UMD is slower than flash, but here is the tradeoff. Your DS flash is limited to what 128megs??? and the UMD is limited to 1.8 Gigs? Hell I don't mind waiting the average 10-15 seconds it takes to load a level as the end result is so much more. We really should not even compare the PSP to the DS as the PSP is console quality whereas the DS does not even come close. I don't like to even mention the DS as it's not even in the same league as the PSP.

"I don't care if you have reviewed a million games your misinformation is typical of your blind devotion to your DS."

I was engaging in a generalization - if you have seen my posts here you would know that I am very pro-PSP but realistic about the limitations - and yes, it actually has limitations. I own the DS & PSP, and the majority of my game time is on the PSP.

I engaged in generalizations in response to the assertion by required that the DS has longer load times than the PSP based on having seen one DS game with a long load. My point is that the PSP has significantly longer load times, which does not appear to be something you dispute.

This is good - it seems we now have a common starting point for *intelligent debate*!

The question you invite is - are the load times on the PSP detrimental to its use as a *portable* gaming device. I believe you would say 'no' - you don't mind waiting 30 seconds for (example) Call of Duty to wake up from sleep mode, because the resulting gameplay and visual & audio presentation are worth the wait for you.

Personally I believe that regardless of how much I like a game on the PSP, I need to judge it as a handheld game - if I have 5 minutes and a game in sleep mode, how much actual gaming time am I likely to get? I mentioned Izuna, and the answer for that would be ~4:45 seconds including 3 saves between dungeon levels. For Call of Duty it would be ~ 3 minutes - 30 seconds to wake up, 30 seconds to save at the end of the level (because it, like so many recent games, can't 'autosave' without asking me twenty questions after I put the system to sleep) and 30 seconds to load another level. I consider that unacceptable and a deficiency.

We are starting to see games where the levels stream in so that the load times are minimalized - and then there are games like Puzzle Quest where my 5 minute game session would have more then 4:30 of actual gaming. My desire is that developers take advantage of these things, and that we gamers hold them to the standard of delivery truly *portable gaming friendly* experiences, rather than accepting console-style loads.

I as well appreciate when it takes a small amount of time to get back into the game, there has to be some give and take. I think for the most part developers see this as well when they design a game for the PSP. I also believe that portable gaming is evolving, I think that there should be no hand held or portable limitations that are stereotypical of these devices. I feel that most of the PSP games that are out are acceptable in this area. The design of the PSP allows for one to basically pause any game at any point and power down the system and bring it back almost as quick plus the time it takes to spin up the UMD. I have enjoyed playing hand held games since Merlin was popular, when the GBA came out I thought that was a pretty big leap, then when I first started reading about the DS and PSP it was a very easy choice for me when I opted for the PSP.

"The design of the PSP allows for one to basically pause any game at any point and power down the system and bring it back almost as quick plus the time it takes to spin up the UMD."

That is a feature I love - which is why I loathe Madden and Call of Duty and other games that need 30 seconds to 'wake up'.. To be fair, CoD only does this if you are mid-mission, but still

I've been gaming since Pong was fairly new, got an original GameBoy when it came out to use on planes for work travel, but didn't really do much with handhelds until the GBA SP came out. For me, I love games on both systems for different reasons, and already love the impact of the PSP on Nintendo. It makes them work harder, and we gamers all win ... now excuse me, but my weak flesh has caved and I'm buying Valhalle Knights *and* the new Generation of Chaos this morning ...

More ,,new " news ... we knew that te PSP is the moste powerfull of all , and you only have to look at the God of War CoO trailer and not at this chart lol

txa1265, I think it's clear you either do not have a PSP, the one you have is broken, or the stopwatch you use is broken because you don't appear to know what you are talking about. The fact of the matter is that the PSP does indeed load faster than the DS byte for byte.

"The fact of the matter is that the PSP does indeed load faster than the DS byte for byte."

See - there we agree! The PSP has a faster processor (5x) and overall faster data throughput due to more advanced bus and so on. The UMD xfer rate is slower than flash memory(say 2x to be kind, more like 100x) and the PSP is transferring much more data than the DS (est 10x) and you have it - the PSP has load times 10x longer than the DS!

And by the way, my PSP works great, and if you read before I was making a generalization. Perhaps where we differ is that I consider PC / console load-times unacceptable in a portable device.

txa1265, please don't be daft. It's not cute. The PSP does not have load times 10x longer than the DS. This is simply false and if you had a PSP you would know this.

The DS has horrendous load times (reading AND processing data) as I pointed out earlier, in fact often much worse than "PC / console" load-times and much much worse than the PSP. However you stick your head in the sand when confronted with this fact. EOS.

OK, required - here is a test. Please tell me *ONE* DS game that does the following:
- You are in the middle of playing and need to do something so you go to the pause menu.
- You close the lid and put the system to sleep.
- When you are ready to play again you open the lid.
- The system takes *30 seconds* to get back to the point where you can unpause.

Can you name one? No? Because there isn't one! There might be one or two games that have fairly long (15 - 30 seconds) load times as we've discussed, but that is a different thing.

On the PSP I can name 2 without thinking:
- Madden NFL 07
- Call of Duty Roads to Victory
- and Chili Con Carnage takes 15 - 20 seconds

These are actual times based on my actual play on my actual PSP. And if you have played 'Ys' you would have seen thousands of 10 second loads ... if you have played Dungeon Siege, you might have chosen to walk from place to place as I did since the load times on the teleport system were terribly slow ... or if you played 'Spectral Souls' you would have watched the UMD load ... every ... word ... individually ...

As I have said again and again, I love my PSP and it gets much more playtime than the DS. However it has an inherent flaw that bothers me - long load times. I cannot believe that after all of the documented evidence of the past two years that there is a person who would claim that the PSP doesn't have load times longer than the DS.

I was not being cute - I was being generous. Disks are much slower than flash. That is not opinion, it is physics - but perhaps your reality distortion field is impervious to physics as well as math. That is why the loads on the PSOne were longer than the N64, and why the memstick loads faster than the UMD. But I was willing to say that even assuming an equal data rate, the size of the art assets alone would account for the PSP having to transfer more information, causing longer load times. That seems like a fairly simple and logical argument.

txa1265,

PSP games (just like DS games) are instant when returning from paused. I don't have "Chili Con Carnage" nor does the DS and the DS doesn't have "Call of Duty Roads to Victory" either and the DS variant of "Madden NFL 07" is far removed from the version on the PSP so comparing their performance is literally a non-sequitur & nonsensical task.

You're being a total idiot when comparing media while overlooking the devices that process them. The fact is the PSP can read data off of its UMD faster than the DS can off its little card, hence the PSP is faster (and faster yet getting data off its memory stick).

Ok guys here is how I see it bottom line to me IMO.
Yes the PSP takes a little longer to load a level, and yes maybe a few seconds to get back into a game from pause be we are talking SECONDS?? I really don't see an issue. If the DS had the same capabilities as the PSP with s UMD drive and have the same memory requirements I would imagine it would take just as long. I DO NOT see this as a flaw with the PSP, the only way I could see it as a flaw as if there was another unit that has the same specs as the PSP that had load times that was much smaller, the DS does not fall into this catagory. As I have stated before the PSP is a Portable but it much more mimicks a portable Console, than a hand held gaming system, it really does more than most consoles with it's features It more closely resembles a Portable PC with all that it does.
I don't see the point in debating a few measely seconds to get into a game, resume a game or load a level.

There is one game the PSP has that the DS does not have that would have been interesting to compare, the GBA has a very watered down version. The game is Activision Hits Remix, with the memory of the PSP it loads all 40 games into memory there is NO LOAD time whereas on the GBA it had to load each 4k Atari 2600 game.

Can't we just revel in the joy we get with the Mighty PSP!

that should be put at 222MHz, since sony refuses to let game devs use the full 333MHz. Someone should bitch at them, since that extra 111MHz is ALOT, in the case of GTALCS, 222MHz, VS 333 is going from 30-40FPS to 70-80FPS. Don't believe it, play it for yourself on a 2.7 PSP with the GTALCS mod.

It's something that RAD was complaining about when they were interviewd by IGN on GOW for the PSP.

Oh, my sweet f****** abode of a hell! The hell's the matter with you people?

Do you also complain about PStwo and PSone loadtimes? Even better/stupid question: Do you deny either of them having load times.

For f***** sake, this is the price we pay for optical medium, and its greater potential of storage and aiding the visual umph of a homeconsole experience. PSP isn't some lightweight handheld, it's a friggin' portable console that's slowly putting my PS2 on the backseat. I expect, -accept-, and -tolerate- the load times (only a few titles being exceptions: Smackdown vs. Raw being one of 'em)!

Eeesh.

Can I get an Amen!

Re #42: "Do you also complain about PStwo and PSone loadtimes?"
- Irrelevant - those are non-portable systems. However, even on the PC when load times get excessive I *do* complain. For a portable game system my threshold of load times is much lower.

"Even better/stupid question: Do you deny either of them having load times."
- Apparently some people do - 'required' claims that no PSP games have load times and that anyone who claims otherwise is making stuff up, even about games he doesn't own.

"PSP isn't some lightweight handheld"
- Actually, it *is* a handheld gaming system by definition. And having a game (such as I just finished) like MLB 07: The Show with 1 minute loads starting and ending a game, is a minor hassle on a console but simply unacceptable for a handheld.

Look - I know this comes off anti-PSP, but that isn't the case. I love my PSP, but having seen good and bad games and everything in between I want to challenge developers to all aspire for the best - and if we as gamers accept 1 minute loads then that is what we will continue to get.

@ #44
"- Irrelevant - those are non-portable systems. However, even on the PC when load times get excessive I *do* complain. For a portable game system my threshold of load times is much lower."

[And pretty much your other two points.]

- Not quite. If I was to basically cram something that operates on the concept of a gaming pc-heavy reliance on a disc drice-into a portable, handy PDA form, doesn't mean that it'll be conforming to the standards of the genre. Sure, it means I am genre-bending, but it doesn't mean we mendaciously ignore the fundamental fact that it still retains those properties of a PC. Even you admitted that PSP is supposed to offer more of a homeconsole experience on the go.

I don't mean to sound like a flaming bitch at this point, sorry, because I actually agree with you. However, simply assigning the title 'handheld' to something, doesn't automatically clear the gadget of load times. DS doesn't have load times because it's based upon a tried, tested, and proven formula for a solid 'on the go' experience. This is why I am looking to dispel the wrong expectations that people hold of a PSP - typical handheld, which it is not.

As a matter of fact, I treat the PSP like a homeconsole/PDA laptop-like thing that doesn't tether me to a fixed designation in the house. At the same time, I can use it on the really long trips where I can tolerate load-times. I know this isn't the perfect hybrid, but this is what you get for merging two worlds that haven't ordinarily been merged within the convention of handheld gaming.

I am not trying to contradict you, Txa. And no, you don't come off as a PSP-basher.