Xbox 360 creates "limitations" for GTA IV

by Kevin Kelly { May 2nd 2007 at 2:42PM }

Apparently the lack of a built-in Blu-ray or HD-DVD drive in the Xbox 360 means that the year and a half old console is already starting to feel growing pains. In an interview with Official PlayStation Magazine, Rockstar creative VP Dan Houser was asked, "On PS3 you've got a guarantee that every machine is going to have a hard-drive and, with Blu-ray, you've got plenty of storage, whereas on Xbox 360 there's no guarantee of a hard-drive and you're working with the DVD format. Does that create limitations?" His answer? "Yep."

On the flipside, Rockstar is using the Xbox 360 to demo the game to the press ... so they might say it's not the prettiest girl at the ball, but they sure love dancing with her. There's no doubt that as games get more graphically intense and the sheer scope of them continues to increase in size, storage is going become a more pressing issue. However, don't forget that right now the larger storage leads to longer load times, with the PS3 taking longer than the 360, due to the Blu-ray drive.

We didn't expect it to start happening quite so soon, but we're sure it's minimal as far as this title is concerned. We'll be watching the widening gap with interest.

Tags: grandtheftauto, gtaiv, Rockstar

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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)

Montana @ May 2nd 2007 2:46PM

Possible leaked footage?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=598Iz44Ri6g

sheppy @ May 2nd 2007 2:46PM

*grabs popcorn and waits for the console war to erupt like it did on the Nintendo release list thread*

I mean, seriously... Nintendo announces games and that starts a war? Oh shit, here they come!

vidGuy @ May 2nd 2007 2:46PM

"Limitations" doesn't mean anything. Hell, Blu-Ray creates a limitation of load time and even storage space. DVD-9 creates a limitation, but any competent compression scheme is going to eliminate the problem.

haywood jablomey @ May 2nd 2007 2:47PM

I thought OPM was cancelled.

Zoot Suit Jedi @ May 2nd 2007 2:53PM

Didn't he actually say that there were both advantages and disadvatages with BOTH systems?

My console in an Honor Student.

James @ May 2nd 2007 2:47PM

Oh boy, here we go. I smell a fanboy slap-fight of massive proportions. A developer of a high profile game said positive things about the PS3 AND negative things about the 360? The tide is indeed turning.

jay @ May 2nd 2007 2:47PM

Positive PS3 news? Okay I want you, you and you to line up there. Say cheese.

EvoAnubis @ May 2nd 2007 2:49PM

Well, it was kinda enevitable. I really didn't think storage would be a major issue for another year or so at least. And yeah, compression is an option, but when you have the BD-ROMs that hold up to 50 GB of info, when some developer makes full use of it, how the hell do you compress all of that onto DVD-9?

Brian @ May 2nd 2007 2:52PM

The hard drive comment I can agree with, but I doubt they are pushing the DVD's size limit. Resistance had to pile on the crappy pre-rendered slide shows to exceed a DVD's size.

Striderhayasa @ May 2nd 2007 2:52PM

Wait....does that mean MS is admitting that PS3 is the better value by releasing the Elite?

Jack of No Trades @ May 2nd 2007 2:52PM

No shit! In about 2 years the 360 will be hurting more. PS3 will have content already on the disc like Oblivion while you have to download it for 360.

Eaode @ May 2nd 2007 2:56PM

Actually, this is interseting. EvoAnubis is right, when people really do take advantage of BluRay, what'll happen? You can't expect people to buy the add-on hd-dvd drive just to play your game. Either sometime down the road, MS will make HD-DVD standard with all 360's, or PS3 exclusives will stay, well, exclusive.

Mark @ May 2nd 2007 3:01PM

Nice article, shame it was tainted by the Blu-Ray being slower nonsense. Go and read the difference between CAV and CLV, then realise the 360 and PS3 transfer rates are almost identical, as the PS3 is consistent across the whole disc, but the 360 quoted figures are only the outside track...

sheppy @ May 2nd 2007 2:56PM

Damn, flame war hasn't started yet.... maybe I should throw a little Gasoline.

"Is this what Microsoft meant by exclusive downloadable content? Haha, you guys get to pay extra for the full game...."

*runs away to protect his PS3, Wii, and 360 from the oncoming war*

jp @ May 2nd 2007 2:56PM

hmmm so it looks like gta will be lookin better on the ps3 also

aC @ May 2nd 2007 2:57PM

A major point to note is that this will be an issue in "streaming" game where you have access to the entire world at any time.

In most other games, multi-discs are a realistic solution (albeit annoying).

However I think GTA style games were always the ones people used as examples of the disk space issue, and it's proving to be a reliable piece.

Meh... You may now resume your previously scheduled console bitch-fight.

kingofwale @ May 2nd 2007 2:58PM

so.. then why is the game even on Xbox? You will just end up dragging the whole game down. Geez. nicely done T2

Roger @ May 2nd 2007 2:58PM

make it for the 360 but with a little[microscopic!] graphic blandness. but make add ons up the ass for cheap or free. that way you can add up near the ps3s so called "gReaTesT GraPhiz eVOR!". graphics or no the game play is what sells me a copy and a copy to my 8 year old depressed child.

j/k im 16

EvoAnubis @ May 2nd 2007 3:01PM

Wow . . . I was really expecting this to escalate into a flame war by now . . . I'm glad it hasn't. To answer my own question (or at least provide an idea), could it be that a fully loaded PS3 game, if it was multi-system, would be realeasesd on two or three DVDs on the 360?

Martez @ May 2nd 2007 3:02PM

Misleading headline. Should be "Game Developer Points Out the Obvious"

Billy @ May 2nd 2007 3:02PM

Microsoft really fucked up, no question, by making a version of their console without a hard drive. BIG TIME fuck up. Other than that, the 360 rocks.

I really don't think having "only" a DVD is a big deal. It takes an assload of content to fill up 9GB. Sure, Blu-ray or HD-DVD would be nice... but also $200 more. :P

Adam Sutherland @ May 2nd 2007 3:03PM

IF GTA4 has to have 2 discs on 360, how about an option to load one of the discs to the hard drive if available? Pretty please?

polly @ May 2nd 2007 3:03PM

Stopped reading after "interview with Official Playstation Magazine"

Is anybody else tired of these fanboy fights?

JimyD @ May 2nd 2007 3:05PM

This won't be a problem with the yet to be announced, Xbox 360 Elite HD version.

Tom @ May 2nd 2007 3:15PM

But...but... my Xbox360 HAS a HD in it... so how is this bad? When I run GTA4 it'll cache info to the drive, duh. Where's the problem? This isn't a problem for anyone with a HD.

Markusdragon @ May 2nd 2007 3:09PM

Whatever happened to using two discs?

robert @ May 2nd 2007 3:13PM

releasing it on more than one disc isn't an option... due to the open nature of the game you can't plan where to split up the data for each disc.

EvoAnubis @ May 2nd 2007 3:14PM

polly, you're missing the point. This actually hasn't turned into the standard "xboxxx suxxx !!!11!111!!!" flame wars that a post like this normally degenerates into. This is simply a discussion on the point of storge sizes and other aspects of the media that Sony and Micosoft have chosen for their platforms.

ill trooper @ May 2nd 2007 3:15PM

Honestly it isn't reaally an issue YET. This game is nowhere near shipping and only AFTER it ships will we be able to tell if more storage on blu-ray helped.

OF COURSE a large storage medium could always help (I guess the soundtrack might benefit from larger storage as it could mean less compression on the audio for the radio stations), but given the installed base of the 360 versus the PS3's, you really gonna believe the 360 version is gonna suffer? No, I think the 360 version will define the assets used on both, like it seems to have been doing on most games that have been available on both systems. Both versions will likely be nearly identical.

Also, it sounds like his quote might be addressing the way not every 360 can be assumed to have a hard drive, more than storage on the game's disk. That sounds like a larger concern.

3cubedminus3squared @ May 2nd 2007 3:14PM

It doesn't matter. the 360 version will more than likely sell more than the PS3 one.

Greg2k @ May 2nd 2007 3:16PM

I don't think they'll go all balls-out mad on the BD-ROM storage advantages. Take into account they will probably be releasing a PC version of GTA:IV, and there's no way in hell there will be HD-DVD-ROM or BD-ROM drives out there. Remember how long it took companies to start releasing games on DVDs?
I guess the PC version should look nicer (on pimped-up machines) than the PS3 version, but won't need no 25GB nonsense. 1 (or at the most, 2) DVD-9 should do.

h0mi @ May 2nd 2007 3:16PM

VMD. MS can support VMD discs with current drives by updating the firmwares of the 360 drives (bye bye to your hacked backups) and it will provide about 40 gigs of storage.

mkoracer @ May 2nd 2007 3:19PM

Word up aC

The problem with a compression scheme is the extra processing time it takes to decompress the data.

A game like GTA which is constantly streaming textures, sounds and objects from disc has to be able to load that stuff as fast as possible with a minimum of processing.

I'm sure developers are constantly struggling with the time and processor power it takes to read a 10MB uncompressed texture vs. reading and decompressing the same texture at 5MB

erac3rx @ May 2nd 2007 3:21PM

This news, when combined with the fact that Microsoft is basically forcing developers to charge for downloadable content, does not bode well for 360 users. Either you're screwing over people that don't have the hard drive, screwing over people that don't have internet, or screwing over people that don't have the hd-dvd addon. None of those choices is good.

Honestly, I think their best move is to drop the Core, offer the 20gb hard drive as a free trade-in for a memory card (one per 360 core SKU), and/or sell the 20gb HD for $50-- and then start allowing devs to require a hard drive for games. This, combined with a new policy that lets developers download content to your hard drive for free (as opposed to charging out the ass for everything), would let them get around the storage limitation fairly cleanly.

Konny @ May 2nd 2007 3:21PM

This guy is just stating fact: more storage = better, standard HDD = better. Thats it.

And, vaaaaaarrrrrOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM! ... thats the sound of a last gen optical drive spinning at 12x so that the read speeds are adequate.

felixlighter @ May 2nd 2007 3:21PM

Whoa... I read the source article. The headline and corresponding quote seem a bit out of line with the complete article. This post seems unnecessarily sensationalized and is sure to be brought up several times in upcoming fanboy flamewars... The following comments are going to get ugly. I'm just gonna duck out of the way now...

BertTheHappyFish @ May 2nd 2007 3:22PM

Of course being interviewed in a playstation magazine doesn't have any impact on their point of view.

The issue with the 360 was, do they get it out now or wait. The lack of HDD as standard _was_ a big mistake though, although games should be talking advantage of the caching capabilites of the drive if present.

The big issue with higher capacity media (Bluray, HD-DVD) is that it is used currently for duplicating data around the disk for speed of access rather than extra content. Remember content costs money, someone has to spend time & money developing the extra content resulting in fanbois bitching about increased costs with very little return.

Jonathan Tran @ May 2nd 2007 3:25PM

Have fun in the bitch fight, meanwhile I will play on a PC with unlimited storage, free online mods and add-ons/hacks, oh yeah and better graphics than even the PS3.

Roger @ May 2nd 2007 3:25PM

you could always have like 3 gigs on the hard drive to smooth the data and put the music on the drive.

EvoAnubis @ May 2nd 2007 3:25PM

Damn . . . I did forget about streaming. Thanks for pointing out my error. It seems that the popular solution to this would be putting info on the HDD on the 360. I think that's viable . . . honestly, I don't even know anyone that bought the stipped down 360 (or the 20GB PS3, for that matter).

h0mi, forgive my ignorance, but what's a VMD? 40 GB of info is interesting, but I honestly don't know what you're talking about.

JodyAnthony @ May 2nd 2007 3:25PM

more hd art assets take more space. As there were already games last generation that took up multiple dvds (in standard def) its not surprising that 360 will end up being limited with its dvd9 format.

wackychan @ May 2nd 2007 3:29PM

I bought a core and then bought a hard drive shortly afterwards when i got the cash. I know alot of people with 360s and none without hard drives. Before people start bashing me for buying core, i dont play online, so i didnt need the headset.

Ive got plenty of space on my hard drive to add on if it goes 1-5gigs over the dvd. Besides, theres nothing else coming out that will require alot of hard drive space.

This is no big deal to me. And after playing oblivion, I dont see the need for anymore space than that game used.

Leshrac @ May 2nd 2007 3:29PM

Wow, talk about linkbaiting. What a headline.

Can we just get over the "Core" crap and start having games that just require the HD to work please if this is really an issue?

In any case, not sure this really shows anything except that Rockstar has to work a little harder to get around the "limitations" on the 360... just as they probably have to work a little harder to work with the PS3's cell chip in general.

-Leshrac
http://alinktothefuture.com

EvoAnubis @ May 2nd 2007 3:29PM

Oh, and Jonathan, the reason i got out of PC gaming is because I got tired of having to upgrade a graphics cars, and a sound card, or something like that everytime a new triple A title gets released. Consoles are, for the most part, easier. I'd rather have to but a new console every 6 years or so than but upgrades for my PC every 7 months. Stop trying to turn this into a war. If you're going to discuss the issue like we are, that's fine. If not, then simply obsereve and do not comment.

heretrix @ May 2nd 2007 3:30PM

He said both machines have limitations not just the 360.

What a piece of shit article. Quoting half of what the guy said and putting a bullshit flamebaiting title for the article is fucking low.

AirIntake @ May 2nd 2007 3:30PM

@Jonathan Tran

There's no antivirus running on my console. How about your PC?

jay @ May 2nd 2007 3:31PM

Load times can be sharply reduced with the PS3 if devs utilize the hard drive as a data cache. Ridge Racer does an awesome job of this and Ninja Gaiden Sigma will do it too. I know a lot of you are gonna say that the hard drive's gonna fill up with game data, but who cares? Do you really need to have every game in your collection cached on your hard drive? Most people don't play more than 3-4 different games at a time anyway. Plus its not like you can't play games if they're not cached on the HD. So IMO, the PS3 can have its cake and eat it too.