Major Nelson co-host burns Epic in 'free' debate

by Justin McElroy { May 8th 2007 at 11:01AM }

Those of you who regularly listen to the podcast for Xbox Live's Major Nelson may have noticed your clicking finger heating up as you moused over the "Download" link this week, probably because the Major's co-host "e" used the show to totally burn (In l33t parlance: own) Epic. It's either that, or you were having a stroke. Let's hope it was the totally sick burn.

The burn-a-thon started last month with Epic's Tim Sweeney's complaint on 1UP Yours that they wanted to give their new Gears of War maps away, but Microsoft was forcing them to charge. On this week's cast, the Major's fellow Xbox Live staffer e retorted: "I do find this amusing though; a lot of people may not remember this but a year ago Epic was bragging about how they cost us one billion dollars." OMG! Burn!

Unwilling to let the mysteriously-named e be the sole Burninator, the Major added: "They love spending other people's money, it's always easy to spend other people's money." Ooh, mini-burn! Now, this isn't exactly a fair accounting comparison, as Epic just helped convince Microsoft to give their system more RAM and Epic developed (read: paid for) the maps. But why let facts get into the way of a good burn?

In much more disappointing news, the Major has already busted out the fire extinguisher, updating the show notes on his site with apologies for offending anyone and the insistence that he was only joking. Guys, when you step away from a sick burn, you only burn yourselves.

[via CVG]

Tags: 1upyours, epic, gearsofwar, majornelson, timsweeney, xbl, xboxlive

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)

Matthew Walsh @ May 8th 2007 11:15AM

Epic may have paid for the staff who made the maps, but who paid for the advertising that sold the game which gave Epic money to pay their staff to make maps?

It's not clear cut at all, and whilst I'm not going to pay 800MSP for four maps no matter how nice they are, I'm not prepared in this case to get worked up like I did over the Guitar Hero 2 tracks. I'm going to wait to buy them for free, and hopefully the number of people doing so will reinforce the argument of those of us who believe free maps will get MS more money than charged maps.

thegrey @ May 8th 2007 11:19AM

Well if Microsoft feels that way about Epic, then maybe they should give back the profits gained?

guess not......

tituspullo @ May 8th 2007 11:20AM

money well spent the maps are excellent.

Todd @ May 8th 2007 11:21AM

He was only joking, eh? Sure, sure. Afterwards the PR team probably came down on his head asking for him to forgive and forget.

AssaTM @ May 8th 2007 11:37AM

He was just joking, trying to stir things up huh ;p

sheppy @ May 8th 2007 11:36AM

I consider this the same as the David Jaffe incident. If Major Nelson wants to retain his apparent role as unofficial and not just the vagina clown of Microsoft, then he needs to let this burn stand. It's unofficial, it's a podcast, it's done by himself... I say he's allowed to say whatever and screw pulling punches. Apologizing compromises his apparent position.

Kinsella @ May 8th 2007 11:42AM

Wow, Major Asshole and e-peen really came off sounding like morons with that podcast. Thanks for helping me make my purchasing decisions, Larry!

heretrix @ May 8th 2007 11:52AM

Sheppy, actually Major Nelson is on the Microsoft payroll. There is nothing unofficial about him. He is Microsoft's "vagina clown"...

Lord Chako @ May 8th 2007 11:59AM

Sheppy,
Even if it was unofficial, and done on his own time/podcast, he still represents microsoft. He doesn't have to be at a ms press conference to represent ms.
Companies still hold you accountable for what you say/do even when you are not on the clock. Your actions/words still represent the company as a whole, even when you are not being paid.

Not apologizing, and clarifying that he was only joking, compromises his position with microsoft, and also compromises microsofts position with epic.

Jake @ May 8th 2007 11:58AM

MS wants to make money. They saw this as a good opportunity. Most of the people still playing Gears are the people that really love it and won't be pissed about spending 10 bucks on 4 maps after getting a free 2 maps and an excellent game mode. My guess is that MOST of the people bitching, not even including fanboys of other systems, wouldn't have payed $5 for the maps. If they were free, they'd have downloaded them and played them a little bit.

I bought the maps and think they are worth it if you like Gears as much as I do. I've already logged 12 or so hours on them. Process is straight-forward but solid for all modes. Garden is crazy for Annex and even a bit frustrating at times. Bullet Marsh is just plain badass, though the torque cycle on Annex is a pain in the arse. Subway is also quite fun and gives such spawn point disparity it makes for crazy non-annex matches and solid straightforward annex matches.

Like all maps in Gears and Epic maps in general, they are very well designed and each provide unique strategies for advanced players and further depth to Gears online. I've played a lot of shooters and feel that Gears is very shallow by way of options, yet extremely deep by ways of strategy. The strategy comes from both team elements and how you use the weapons.

These maps certainly offer new team and individual strategies to devise and master.

felixlighter @ May 8th 2007 12:04PM

When it comes to the Major Nelson blog and podcast you have to take it for what it's worth. You can get some decent information but don't expect it to be completely unbiased and consumer oriented. He's not a complete corporate shill but he's not going to throw Microsoft under the bus regardless of the issue.

This bickering back and forth between Microsoft and Epic is good news for PS3 owners. I wouldn't be surprised if Epic goes with a new publisher and makes Gears of War 2 multi-platform (don't expect a Wii version). Hopefully the relationship isn't completely ruined, they did make beautiful music together at least one time.

Lord Chako @ May 8th 2007 12:05PM

redundancy ftw.
Sorry for the last post, I'm tired and not thinking straight (finals this week).
Heretrix hit the nail on the head.

fawazr @ May 8th 2007 12:06PM

It's always cowardly when someone says "I was just joking" and apologizes.

Epic should be able to voice theri opinion freely. They've earned that right. They've delivered for Microsoft and managed to make the most critically acclaimed and best-selling title for the 360 thus far. I think when you make the best selling game for any system, you should be allowed to have your own thoughts.

Major Nelson, on the other hand, stirs up shit and spends most of his time convincing fanboys that he really isn't a manifestation of corporate PR.

Konny @ May 8th 2007 12:14PM

Major Nelson gets to much coverage; hes the Paris Hilton of the gaming world.. hes a freakin MS shill.. always will be..

xBots seem to eat everything up though.. like how the HDD is such a good value.

hoos30 @ May 8th 2007 12:16PM

Tim Sweeney should have kept his trap shut. This is what happens when you let internal debates spill out into public. The whole Xbox team is probably pissed that he threw THEM under the bus and e and Major's true feelings on the matter slipped out just a little bit.

fildo @ May 8th 2007 12:21PM

haha, I went to the highschool of the shirt that girl is wearing..

mcelroy where did you get this pic!?

Byll @ May 8th 2007 12:36PM

@11 - felixlighter

If you think Gears 2 will be multi platform you're seriously mistaken. Epic is just the dev of that game, it's a Microsft Games Studio game. They're the publisher. It will never go to another platform. MSG would get rid of Epic and have another dev make it before it'd go multi-platform.

felixlighter @ May 8th 2007 12:44PM

@17

Epic owns the IP, not Microsoft... Gears goes with them. I don't own a PS3, so it doesn't really matter to me if they go multi-platform. The only problem I would have is if Epic decided to cut off their nose to spite their face and made it a Sony Exclusive, but that wouldn't happen. It's just not good business sense.

Jason @ May 8th 2007 12:48PM

I hope to be seeing her in my dermatology clinic in a few years with a suspected case of metastatic melanoma.

RangerPrimeX @ May 8th 2007 1:09PM

Wow! Where did the Major hate come from? Major works for Microsoft and I keep that in mind when I listen to his podcast and I enjoy it ever week along with all the other ones out there. $2 a map is fine and you eventually get them free. MS is the publisher and they get to decide. Epic had a long tradition of giving extra stuff free but they knew that may not happen when they did Gears for MS who gave them major support for the game. Don't forget that Gears is a showcase for the 360 but also for the Unreal 3 engine and certainly helped Epic land some nice licensing deals to other developers. I listened to both podcasts in question and both sides made their comments in a half joking half serious way. Let them say their peace. In the end, MS got a slam dunk game for XMAS and to combat the PS3 launch, Epic got a beautiful way to showcase their new engine to make licensing dollars and best of all we got an awesome game to play with new kick butt maps. Win, Win and Win.

juicebytim @ May 8th 2007 1:28PM

Funny, I went to the same high school as the girl in that picture.

thebigfatj @ May 8th 2007 2:01PM

So I take it Nelson is 12? Does that mean he's about to grow out of his 360?

It's hard to keep up with all of the Microsoft FUD these days. Why don't they focus on addressing the faltering sales of the Xbox 360. Here's a burn for you:

-> Microsoft *failed* to reach their forecast of 10 million xbox 360s sold before the PS3 launched. They've still failed to get 10 million Xbox 360's sold despite stuffing the retail channel.

-> Microsoft shipped 500,000 units, world wide, in Q1 2007. They anticipate shipping 500,000 more units in Q2, 2007. This is a small fraction of that which Sony shipped of their PS3s and even a smaller fraction of what Nintendo shipped with their Wii.

Microsoft is quickly losing grip of their lead. Look, if they have a problem with amassing huge losses (about 6 billion so far) on their entertainment division, get out of the kitchen or develop a strategy that doesn't require a huge set of $6,000,000,000 crutches.

And maybe they should stand behind their product and make it *very easy* to get the thing replaced when it is obvious that there is an extremely high failure rate. Many members of the gaming media have reported returning faulty/broken 360s for brand new systems several times since launch. One of the gents at arstechnica replaced 4 using EB warranties, and was recently informed that EB in Canada increased its warranty to $100 because they were losing money on the $50 Xbox 360 warranties.

That suggests and unprecedented failure rate. Quality test much, Microsoft?

nate @ May 8th 2007 1:46PM

seriously 2 comments from low level employees barely makes a scratch in Epic and MSs relationship...come on now fanboys...now the funny one is how Sony trashes on Gears when Epic is supposed to come out with a huge game for them next year...and suddenly they announce its multi-plat...and I'm sure it's just a mistake...but for some reason when I went to my local Gamestop and asked for the PS3 date on UT3 they said next january...and PC and 360..september...obviously they're not a good source for dates, but that's what their books say....http://www.gamestop.com/search.asp?Ntk=TitleKeyword&Ntx=mode%2Bmatchallpartial&Ntt=unreal+tournament+3&N=0

xelloss @ May 8th 2007 1:48PM

What was the time in which they made these comments, don't feel like listening to the whole thing.

SpishackCola @ May 8th 2007 2:10PM

Haha, I went to the high school of the girl in that picture.

Rubang B @ May 8th 2007 2:13PM

McElroy, that last sentence was gold.

nate @ May 8th 2007 2:22PM

the funny part with ur story there thebigfatj is that still when I go to any certain store and ask...what's selling better....ps3 or 360...everyone still says 360....obviously no one needs to ask about Wii because they're always sold out..MS stuffs the channel by sending 100 systems over Christmas to stores and sells 90...Sony obviously then stuffs the channel by sending 20 to that same store and having 15 sit on the shelf longer than said 360s

Jake @ May 8th 2007 2:39PM

The 360 is owning the PS3 in the US. That is why everywhere you go gamestores sell more 360's. The PS3 is owning Japan and Europe compared to 360.

My theory, and I've stated it many times, is that MS is holding out on a price cut until Halo3 is out a few months. They know many people are holding out for Halo3 and they don't want to leave all that money on the table by dropping the price for people that would have bought anyways.

If Sony were really savvy, they'd drop the PS3 price about 3 weeks before Halo3 comes out. If MS were really clever, they'd have a earlier than expected release of Halo3 at the beginning of August, then drop the 360 price in November for the holiday season. If Sony couldn't match the price cut, you would basically witness MS pulling the old stick it in and break it off maneuver.

adg1034 @ May 8th 2007 3:12PM

@21, 25- I know people who went to the high school of the girl in that picture, though I must say I have no idea what club/event the shirt's for. Still, nice to see some MN love on the 'stiq.

Dux @ May 8th 2007 3:21PM

Screw Major Nelson. I pledge my allegence with Epic.

Zsavior @ May 8th 2007 3:20PM

Does MS own gears of war? I don't know much about its ownership, or is the game just made for 360 but can be ported anywhere?

Lex @ May 8th 2007 3:43PM

I thought it was quite funny - oh wellllll - lets all get uber serious about it then...

KG @ May 8th 2007 3:50PM

I NOES, just GTFO

Tom @ May 8th 2007 3:50PM

@felixlighter

No, I'm pretty sure MS owns the rights to Gears of War, just like they do with Halo. If you know something stating otherwise, please provide a link.

polly @ May 8th 2007 3:50PM

So does that mean vagina clown thinks 256 meg of ram is enough then?

What a weak ass excuse.

And yeah, it'll be free in September so it's not that big of an issue, which makes it all the more insulting that Major took a pot shot and made fun of the gamers that don't feel like paying 800 pts.

Total d-bag.

zero2dash @ May 8th 2007 4:36PM

...this coming from the same assclown who tried to justify the ridiculous price of the Guitar Hero II song packs.

Try again, "Major".

Steven @ May 8th 2007 5:21PM

@felixlighter

"I wouldn't be surprised if Epic goes with a new publisher and makes Gears of War 2 multi-platform (don't expect a Wii version)."

I'm afraid the only way Gears 2 would be multiplatform would be 360 & PC, as Epic have already stated GOW is not possible on the PS3, because its shite (low ram, over specific processor). So I guess what I'm saying is, don't expect a PS3 version!

Nessman @ May 8th 2007 5:24PM

WTF that's my school's shirt!

EnLiven @ May 8th 2007 5:50PM

@ Tom
"No, I'm pretty sure MS owns the rights to Gears of War, just like they do with Halo. If you know something stating otherwise, please provide a link."

No link at hand (can't be arsed to search), but the difference between Epic and Bungie is that Bungie are a second party developer and Epic are independent.

Also the fact that Epic lawyers were the ones dishing out the cease and desists over that GoW munny shows that the IP is being protected by Epic not MS.

EnLiven @ May 8th 2007 6:06PM

Found a link.
http://pictures.xbox-scene.com/xbox360/gow/DOC01.jpg
Epic owns the Gears of War IP. They could potentially take it where they please, though I'm sure there is some clause in the publishing agreement preventing epic just porting the first game wholesale to another platform.

For what it's worth I think MS should really pipe down. Undoubtedly they spent a pretty penny on advertising. However it's my understanding that Epic wholly funded the development of the engine and the development of the content itself is said to be around $10m
http://kotaku.com/gaming/mark-rein/gears-of-war-a-mere-10-million-to-make-234504.php

Considering that Gears has shipped almost 4 million copies I imagine it's been a very good return on MS' investment even without details of the figures involved.