Is Wii less powerful than Xbox One? N'Gai investigates
by Ross Miller 
{ May 9th 2007 at 5:55PM }
Last week in an interview with eWeek, Microsoft's president of Entertainment and Devices division Robbie Bach made the claim that the Nintendo Wii "[doesn't] have the graphics horsepower that even Xbox 1 had." Is the Nintendo Wii, with or without duct tape, less powerful than the original Xbox? Newsweek's N'Gai Croal decided to investigate by talking to "two of our most reliable technical experts at third party publishers" speaking under the condition anonymity (given Croal's credibility, we trust him).
The article therein is a very technical discussion on fixed function shaders, pixels and vertexes, and ultimately concludes that the GameCube 1.5 moniker isn't far off from the truth, though said one source, "keep in mind that the Wii's GPU is not as fast or feature rich as the Xbox 360 or PS3, but that doesn't mean you can't get very close results." And of course, given the hardware sales we've seen since the console's launch, how much does supreme technical prowess really matter to Nintendo?
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Ken @ May 9th 2007 5:59PM
*pisses on thread and leaves*
We all know what's about to happen.
Grab your marshmallows guys!
polly @ May 9th 2007 6:02PM
*grabs chair and sits down*
This ought to be good.
JodyAnthony @ May 9th 2007 6:03PM
in the words of dr. sam beckett, "oh boy"
kingofwale @ May 9th 2007 6:05PM
OUCH!!!
man, even as a person who doesn't like fan, I find this article too harsh. ;)
But still, we all know it's true, xbox 1 was an fantastic powerhouse machine, too bad it got retired too early.
but look at the bright side, Wii's graphic right now isn't even as good as GameCube, let's not compare to xbox 1 JUST yet. :)
rarehero @ May 9th 2007 6:06PM
This line is pretty deceiving : "Almost all the shader effects on PC, Xbox 360 and PS3 can be reproduced on the Wii by re-implementing them with the fixed function hardware of the Wii's GPU. Most games just port the effect over. A few teams have gone as far as making a shader-to-Wii conversion tool. It reads the shader code and generates the fixed function code necessary to achieve the same result. Keep in mind that the Wii's GPU is not as fast or feature rich as the Xbox 360 or PS3, but that doesn't mean you can't get very close results."
I suppose they're talking about simply rendering a single effect on the Wii and other platforms, but the difference in speed would be hundreds of times (literally).
Panadero @ May 9th 2007 6:07PM
I think the better question is "And of course, given the hardware sales we've seen since the console's launch, how much does supreme technical prowess really matter to the gaming populace at large?"
I can only hope we're entering an era where graphics aren't the be-all end-all they've been since the post 16-bit era when 3D finally came to fruition. As little as I care about graphics in the long run it would be foolish to dismiss their importance outright - yet there *is* still way too much importance being put on them.
As for the Wii comparison to the original Xbox, it's never as simple as "one is just better than the other". Xbox's abilities on paper trashed Gamecube's abilities, yet when done right, the Gamecube could do many things comparable to the Xbox, and the system was built to be efficient when doing them. I hate to pull out the old cliche, but what's done with the power at hand is more important to what power there is.
Darkness @ May 9th 2007 6:08PM
I'm starting to get the feeling that Joystiq thrives off of flame wars. They always seem to purposefully get one started.
Well, let me grab the popcorn and watch the show.
Mr Khan @ May 9th 2007 6:08PM
The whole thing seems kind of iffy, really
It said that similar shader effects to the competition can be achieved, its just harder, and it really didn't look at anything else. It didn't look at polygon count or a few other things
In the end, the articles conclusion seemed to be Wii=Xbox, as opposed to Bach statement of Wii
NeverSage @ May 9th 2007 6:10PM
I don't know if I care. I still think high end gamecube graphics look good.
Ian Von Porter @ May 9th 2007 6:11PM
This aint news.
It seems the added 0.5 only allows the games to be more stable in 480p.. so, we're still talking about sub-xbox graphics... take a look at Spiderman 3 Wii... its on the same level as Superman 64.
Seriously, God of War 2, a last gen game ... looks better than every single Wii game thats ever come out.. the one game that may approach it is RE4 Wii.. which also happens to be the best looking Wii game available.
Ken @ May 9th 2007 6:11PM
I guess if you think about it, most people that bought a Wii weren't really expecting amazing graphics.
Anyone who did, is ignorant.
I have a friend who said he'll buy one when Super Smash Bros: Brawl comes out, another who said when the VC gets a few more titles, and another who said the controller is great.
It pretty much supplies all the people who drifted away from consoles over the years.
Oh, and I bought it because I knew it would be a great party machine. And it's not let me down yet. ;)
rinks @ May 9th 2007 6:13PM
FANBOYS, ASSEMBLE!
/popcorn
Next-Gen-Gamer @ May 9th 2007 6:13PM
"but look at the bright side, Wii's graphic right now isn't even as good as GameCube, let's not compare to xbox 1 JUST yet. :)"
It must eat at you to know that such a console is greatly outselling the one you "True HD" machine in nearly every region (latest Japanese numbers show Wii outselling PS3 about 9:1).
If you really want to make a point, post some actual facts with your claims.
Mr Khan @ May 9th 2007 6:14PM
@ Ian Van Porter
you haven't looked at Sonic and the Secret Rings yet
seriously good looking game, and definitely a step above GC's level...
Next-Gen-Gamer @ May 9th 2007 6:15PM
Edit: **the one "True HD" machine you worship
Got that all jumbled.
Ken @ May 9th 2007 6:16PM
@Khan
C'mon man. You know not to say anything to the troll. Just ignore him and he'll go away quietly. :)
Next-Gen-Gamer @ May 9th 2007 6:17PM
"FANBOYS, ASSEMBLE!"
If you're referring to me, I'll just let you know that I play all three consoles on a daily basis.
Ken @ May 9th 2007 6:20PM
Man, should have posted this thread at around noon. That would've brought all the flames.
It seems pretty calm right now.
Mr Khan @ May 9th 2007 6:21PM
@ Ken
I know, and i feel ashamed
Its just hard to fight the urge to descend to thier level and go flame crazy
kingofwale @ May 9th 2007 6:21PM
>It must eat at you to know that such a console is greatly outselling the one you "True HD" machine in nearly every region
what make you think I care how much Nintendo's making? or PS3 and xbox for that matter, do you think I get a cut from that? and frankly, considering how often you bring that up, Obviously you get some kind of profit from it.
As gamers, it just PAINS me to see crappy games selling like hot cakes (on any console for that matter), It just encourage developers to rush games for a buck or two.
Ken @ May 9th 2007 6:22PM
@Mr Kahn
I know the feeling. :) But that's what they want you to do!
Earl @ May 9th 2007 6:22PM
I assume graphics don't matter much. The Wii is consistently selling out worldwide and will, more than likely, surpass the 360 in sales this year. Sorry Sony fans but the PS3 isn't even a contender now.
So, the Wii could very well be less powerful than the original XBox, but I promise you MS would sell their left nut to make the profits Nintendo is making.
Tim @ May 9th 2007 6:23PM
I have a friend who always whines about the graphics on the Wii and asks me if the machine is faster than xbox1. I guess I'll just forward him this article. PS360 FTW!! OMFG
Rod Munch @ May 9th 2007 6:23PM
Bah, I'm moving to PC gaming anyway.
Ken @ May 9th 2007 6:23PM
@kingofwale
As a software developer (aspiring game programmer) it makes me feel good to know that the video game market has become as big as it has!
I'm glad the Wii's made this sort of impact; Gives me job security in the future. :)
WillTheSecond @ May 9th 2007 6:25PM
@16
Good point. Though I would also point out that Excite Truck looks great too, and, though this has been said a thousand times, Metroid Prime 3 and Mario Galaxy look damn, damn amazing.
And really, I don't care about tech specs, as long as I can get the sensation of rushing through the air (with a perfect framerate and nice lighting effects) 500 metres above the ground before crashing back down to earth, bashing another truck out of may way and sending their twisted, splintering wreckage over my head, that's good enough for me. So on a side note: if you own a Wii and don't own Excite truck. Buy it. Now.
Ken @ May 9th 2007 6:25PM
@Tim
LOL you own a PS3 and a 360? Waste of money. Keep your 360, because almost every game coming out for the PS3 is coming out for the 360.
Well, nevermind, you own it already. You can't even make a profit on eBay for them anymore.
Mr Khan @ May 9th 2007 6:25PM
@ kingofwale
It may sound a bit apologistic, and it does depend on a few factors, but...
More profit equals more money to put into R&D, which (might) make a better experience for gamers if they use that R&D to make something awesome (the next Nintendogs, the next LIVE-esque service, the next HOME)
Fanboyism can (although usually doesn't) have roots in self-interest other than winning pointless pissing contests. If Wii sells more, it will get more (and for god's sake, better) third party support, which will benefit me as a Wii owner
I'm not justifying a lot of the crap that goes on here, but there are advantages to seeing companies make mad profits
REUYL @ May 9th 2007 6:29PM
Did anyone bring popcorn? The show's about to start.
LongshotX @ May 9th 2007 6:33PM
@Ken
Thats great that you're in it for the money and it doesn't matter if its a crappy/rushed/thrown together mess as long as it sales a billion copies and lines your pockets full of money right?! The reason I hate the Wii so much is because the games are BULLSHIT put out to make a quick buck off the casual consumer and I don't buy BULLSHIT. Maybe if developers actually made decent games for the system MAYBE I would buy it, but hey when you can SELL loads of copies of BULLSHIT for little cost to the developer, why not keep releasing SHIT! It makes sense.
darconi @ May 9th 2007 6:35PM
The article was hardly detailed... All they talked about was shaders? Come on, where's the other more important info like polygon count or crap like that?
Just another piece of flame bait apparently.
FrankTheCrank @ May 9th 2007 6:38PM
This is Vole going after Nintendo.
Micro$oft doesn't care about PS3 anymore. PS3 is too expensive and the adoption rate has slowed due to price.
M$ is going to go after Nintendo trying to eat their lunch. Microsoft obviously feels threatened.
AndrewNeo @ May 9th 2007 6:37PM
Instead of looking forward to flame wars I find it more fun to look forward to the idiots who look forward to flame wars.
kingofwale @ May 9th 2007 6:39PM
@Mr Khan
AHH, and there lies the difference of opinions between you and me.
see, you think just because Wii's hot now, they'd be more development for Wii.
but the way I see it, this will ONLY need to more CRAPPILY made games for Wii because everyone is trying to make a quick buck. Sure, you get all sorts of games coming to Wii, but how many are those are really good ones? (outside of Nintendo's first party games?)
Kye @ May 9th 2007 6:39PM
"FANBOYS, ASSEMBLE!"
@ #17 Next-gen... I believe they were speaking to us.
Lets form Nintentron;
Ken, Rubang, you form the legs,
Jody, Will, you form hands and arms,
I'll form the head.
Mega-thrusters are go...
Other hyper-sounding commands.
[yes Nintendo = Voltron and Sony = power rangers.]
FORM BLAZING SWORD!
Next-Gen-Gamer @ May 9th 2007 6:40PM
"what make you think I care how much Nintendo's making? or PS3 and xbox for that matter, do you think I get a cut from that?"
You're a troll. In other words, yes.
"and frankly, considering how often you bring that up, Obviously you get some kind of profit from it."
Notice I only say something after you start trolling? It has nothing to do with what I think, and everything to do with you constantly being wrong. If you're not going to stop trolling and use facts, then I'm going to keep going. You make it too easy.
Davinche @ May 9th 2007 6:46PM
Right now I am looking at the de facto Nintendo fanboys defense and guess what? Its about the sales of the console.
How many of you work for nintendo again?
I mean its not like you have a seamless online environment were all those users can play some good games together is it?
And its not like third parties are jumping to wii and brining all their big guns either are they? I mean the big third party games are still not on the wii...
So what beneft is nintendo success to you as a consumer. I mean with sony era i could kinda see how thier is an advantage with the more consumers and such, but all i see here is Nintendo getting richer, and the game situation and console services stays the same. funny hey.
Lets face it. Ninetndo took away graphics this generation because they wanted to make a good profit from the hardware from the get go. And Nintendo fans have let them do that.
If you think consoles are expensive now tho, wait till all manufacturers decide they should make money from hardware from day one as well. Either that, or enjoy the graphics you are getting now, because the nintendo philosphy is they ain't gonna get better if you still want to make a killing!
Say what you want about sony and ms but you get value for money, more bang for buck. But these days people would be happy just watching another man get take thier cash. Ninetndo is getting a way with murder and some people are actually gloating on message boards about it.
Im an xbox fanboy tho, so you know, my opinion is useless, right? go play some generic halo right? hey as long as you don't answer the claims its all good with you.
Fernando Rocker @ May 9th 2007 6:47PM
Nintendo Fanboys (including me)
We should make a boicot against the fucking lazy developers...
Fuck... the Wii have a lot, and I mean, a lot of potential... just imagine that all the good developers start making reals good FPS (not like the most lazy and unprossefional Ubisoft)
We need to send some menacing letters to some developers (maybe with a little anthrax)
REUYL @ May 9th 2007 6:49PM
Davinche, it must be something in the water. I can't understand why anyone would buy a Wii either.
OMG TEH FLAMEBAIT
JodyAnthony @ May 9th 2007 6:51PM
"It has nothing to do with what I think, and everything to do with you constantly being wrong."
HAHAHA oh my god, thats fucking gold!
Luke @ May 9th 2007 6:51PM
Hopefully Metroid Prime 3 will show us what the Wii has to offer in graphics.
Next-Gen-Gamer @ May 9th 2007 6:52PM
Davinche
Don't confuse fanboyism with attacking a troll (kingofwale). Most of what I've said isn't even relevant to what you're talking about. It should be, however, relevant to kow, who has done nothing but troll.
Steve @ May 9th 2007 9:54PM
One of the things that's never mentioned in these discussions of the importance of horsepower is the human factor. Yes, you can make some surprisingly sophisticated games on older hardware but the flipside of that is that you need a team knows the hardware better than the back of their own hand and is clever enough to know how to pull every trick in the book to maximize the power of a piece of hardware. There are big downsides to this. If you can find a team with the skill you'll need the funds to pay for the extra time required to pull off these tricks, you're more at risk if key developers of this tricky custom software leave, and you'll increase the rampup time for new engineers to understand the source. In the end, as RE4 shows, your extra expenses may not even be rewarded with high sales.
More system power means that you can pull off well made games without performing all the financially expensive and risky programming tricks.
Think of it as being like Visual Basic. Yea it's an inefficient programming language from the computer's point of view, but from many business perspectives it's far more efficient than hiring some assembler-level programmer to create the same app for slower and cheaper PCs.
Ken @ May 9th 2007 6:54PM
@Kye
You made me laugh so hard, I cried. LOL!
Theta @ May 9th 2007 6:54PM
mmmm, interesting article. Though I do agree that it isn't terribly comprehensive and could have stood to compare the two consoles more throughly.
I have to say though, I do love seeing me some frustrated hi-def console fanboys who are busting hernias over how big a travesty wii's success is. hahaha
*grabs popcorn, sits down with the rest of the gallery*
Theta @ May 9th 2007 6:56PM
@ Davinche
Hey, check it out, we're having more fun with game console than we would with yours.
The relevance of your entire little rant just got flushed down the drain.
Ian Von Porter @ May 9th 2007 6:58PM
Lets see.. PS2 and Wii sales account for 70-75% of the console market.. so, its true that people are perfectly ok with last gen graphics for the time being.
Now, do you NintenBots really think that Wii is going to be pushing 280-300k units a month in SEVEN FREAKIN' years like the PS2? .. you can do that if you start with barely last gen hardware.
Ken @ May 9th 2007 6:58PM
http://a732.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/5/l_ffa7ad5e76f0af3f595779c211c0e103.jpg
Click the image guys, and have a hearty laugh. It's a friend of mine, trying to do the most awkward pose in Wii Bowling.
If you can't laugh at that; You have no soul.
Jdoki @ May 9th 2007 6:58PM
@33. This is Vole going after Nintendo.
I think you go it spot on FrankTheCrank.
If you look at it from a numbers point of view there's a good chance that the PS3 will outsell the 360 over the life of the console purely becaus eof the poor 360 sales in Japan, and the Wii looks like trashing the 10million MS have shipped/sold pretty quickly.
That leaves MS in third place.
The original Xbox came in 2nd against Sony/Nintendo - to come in third this time would be a serious defeat.
If MS can sway any of those potential customers who are sat on the fence regarding their next console purchase they will do anything they can to tarnish the competition.
Not that it should matter to any of us GAMERS though. I'll continue to play my Wii and 360, and when the PS3 becomes better value for money and if their exclusives look good I'll pick one of those up.
^FourthDimensionGod^ @ May 9th 2007 6:59PM
heh you fucking Nintendorks.
wait til the devs make some good FPS for the wii...but i thought FPS were bad? rmember the xbox is all about FPS.
Sit and wait, Miyamoto will say he could have made a powerful system like PS3 and all you fudge packing Nintendorks cant jerk off at playing Mario with 4xAA now instead of waiting til next gen(post PS3/360).
now run along and go to the voting the channel and vote the wii as being more powerful. meanwhile ill go play some games online(dont worry you guys will get online next gen after wii)