Sony's naysayers, then and now

As Lloyd Bentsen said Quayle was no Kennedy.

PS3 .... YOU ARE NO PS2!!!

God Bless my Dreamcast but the PS2 launch was a 1000x different than the PS3s......as the PS2 was a MUST own for gamers.

A PS2 hocked on ebay for 2000$ was actually worth that price. And telling your gf/wife that it was a DVD Player actually was a good excuse to buy it.

As an early adopter.....I buy EVERYTHING.....and then my friends either come over and play with stuff or ask me on my recommendation.

Sony has to remember that its the games that matter....not HOME, not Blu-Ray, Not Media Card Readers, not Replaceable Hard Drives.....GAMES. Everything else is extra......something MS and Nintendo have firmly learned.

HALO 3 BETA BEGINS TODAY!! WOOHOO!!!

"Don't get me wrong; it's definitely the most powerful video-game machine on the planet right now. But that's not enough. ... There's just not much software available that can take advantage of it."

This is one way history is repeated...

Sony convinced people the "Emotion Engine" was super-computer-like powerful. Even when XBox specs were released, Sony boasted the PS2 was more powerful, with three times the "GIGAFLOPS" of the XBox! And yet, the XBox, with its "weaker" general-purpose CPU, produced the better graphics! It took a couple of years for people to realise that the PS2 wasn't really as powerful as Sony claimed (Toy Story graphics?).

And once again, Sony has convinced people the "Cell Processor" is uber-powerful, with Sony boasting one and a half times the "GIGAFLOPS" of the 360's "weaker" general-purpose CPU! How long will it be for people to realise Sony overhyped the PS3's capabilities? How long will it be until Sony fanboys STFU about the PS3's power!

I went to the local Ford dealer last night. They had 15 mustangs and only 1 Focus. The Mustangs have clearly failed.

McKnight: "no decent platformers, no innovative titles, no new Japanese game concepts"

I admit the 360's game lineup is lacking, but the PS3's game lineup is just as bad...
Platformers: by next Christmas they'll each have only one exclusive, Banjo-Kazooie verses Ratchet And Clank.
Innovative titles: the Wii has stolen all the innovation.
New game concepts: at least the 360 has a "gardening simulator".

Matt B, your precious Mustang still needs gas does it not? so does the PS3.


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I think Joystiq(or someone) should post more predictions like that and hold those know it alls accountable. Like all the Wii naysayers. It should be like a weekly session on Joystiq.

I have a PS2 and a 360 right now. I've owned the majority of consoles ever available since my first Atari 2600 - not all, but most - throughout my life. I don't believe in fanboyism simply because these are products from companies, not local sports teams. I don't argue who makes the best writing pen or go on the Gateway site and post "Dell FTW!!!". My opinion is that the two are not the same. I don't think the "bad press" surrounding the PS2 is anywhere near the bad press (and consumer reaction) concerning the PS3. The biggest, most obvious issue is the price point. It also lacks games but, to be honest, most launching consoles do until a year in. Sony shouldn't have married themselves to Blu-Ray, there is no arguing against it. They also shouldn't have tried to build a super computer when most of us only want a gaming console. There were mistakes made this time around that can't be said for previous incarnations. The point is, I know people call these marketing periods "console wars" but the concept is silly. Why should only one "win"? It's almost like fanboys feel their taste in games or consoles is justified (or even needs to be justified in the first place) by the success of their favorite console. I like Pepsi products, myself, but I don't stay awake at night dreaming about the demise of Coca-Cola company. Chill out, people.

Jake,

You made some valid points and I forgot and won Oblivion :) but I am certainly not in alliance with Sony (just with entertainment) and Playground Namecalling does not alter that.

I finished Gears but am no 'expert' and dont wish to be one either! I am not motivated by it.

You maybe right about Viva but the last time I spent so long with some worms, A patch of grass, a spade, rake, seeds and a watering can....

My comments were not meant to be read as argumentative, only showing a different perspective, A perspective that possibly a huge number of other potential customers may have also.

Take Sheppy's wishlist (his post and the flames that followed are on prev page) to see what I mean.

People like him, sat on the fence waiting to see something like ICO/Shadow of the Colossus etc to give them a reason to buy a console, and with a potential 100m customers up for grabs, I am sure theres a lot more like him sat around.

I am not be one of the 6 million people interested buying Halo 3 yet I was one of the 40 Million who got Super mario, 11 Million who got GTA and 10 Million who got Gran Turismo and and speaking of which, thanks for reminding me of Forza.

That should help for a long long time though and if GT5 is good enough, I'll get a PS3 for it :)

Here here, Satan Is My Motor.

I think one of the big points that people seem to be overlooking in the area of competition that the PS3 faces is in fact the PS2.

Which of the systems currently available at major electronics stores is $129, small in size, able to play movies, has rumble in the controllers, has the largest games library, has guitar hero, and has games that can be purchased at an inexpensive price?

Think about it, I could pay less than $200 and play David Jaffe's GOW2 or I could pay $610 and play Jaffe's Calling all Cars. Given that decision which would you rather do?

I can an honestly say that my next game system purchase will most likely be a PS2. My money will go a lot further and there is a huge catalog of games I need to catch up on.

"Suppose you have a friend who, for no apparent reason, suddenly becomes obsessed with the Amtrak Corp. He babbles about Amtrak constantly, citing obscure railroad statistics from 1978. He puts Amtrak bumper stickers on his car. When something bad happens to Amtrak -- a train crashes, for instance, and investigators find that the engineer was drinking and wearing a bunny suit -- your friend bcomes depressed for weeks.
You'd think he was crazy, right? "Bob," you'd say as a loving and caring friend, "you're a moron. The Amtrak Corp. has *nothing to do with you*."
But if Bob is behaving exactly the same deranged way about the Pittsburgh Penguins, it's considered normal guy behavior. He could name his child 'Pittsburgh Penguin Johnson' and be considered only mildly eccentric."


I thought this Dave Barry quote was relevant. Just replace 'Pittsburgh Penguins' with Sony Playstation (or whatever) and 'normal guy' with 'gamer'.

The PS2 sold 110+ million consoles. How many of those consoles stopped reading the discs after 2 years? There should be a statistic to see how many ps2s are gathering dust. I know of many people who threw away their malfunctioning PS2s, later to buy an Xbox or the newer PSTwo. Still the user base should be far less than what Sony is claiming.

Anyway, I bet that God of War could look better in the Dreamcast if it hadn't failed or Xbox. What killed the DC was the lack of funding for advertisement and the lack of DVD. On the graphics and development department, it was a rock solid console.

I'd buy a PS3 when they release LocoRoco game for it. When that happens, as rumoured, the price of the PS3 would have been cut for a while. :)

I said it before and I will say it again, last console war was nothing like this one, Microsoft is not sega, and until people grasp that fact they will not fathom the problem sony really has now.

The xbox 360 is not going to run out of cash, their fan base isn't going to be swayed with the promises of better graphics. They are going to get a drought of first party games with no 3rd party back up. MS is not sega, ignoring this fact and just pointing at past media comments is exactly how Sony got into this situation.

It is like the people who are actual sony fans don't really give a damn about them. Enough lying to their face the gap is not getting better it is getting worse. Sony's huge boost came from the death of the dreamcast and no competitor in sight. Yet nobody wants to remember this fact, xbox 360 is going no where. Halo 3 will soon be hitting the stores what happens then? At which point does sony realize that MS has the upper hand and they have to act.

It is cool to review the past and learn from your mistakes, but if you only going to review half the story, your only going to be prepared for half of the consequence. Sony can't think what happened 7yrs ago and they have to focus on getting gamers today. Telling them that this is the PS2 all over again and if they hang on they will be ok will not help them. I repat they didn't out live sega, Sega went bankrupt because of their own circumstances and financial situations giving sony the edge. This will not happen right now, MS is not going bankrupt in my life time, and nintendo is making a profit on every system sold, this is what is happening in the present, this is the current competition. Compared to 2000 that doesn't look to positive for sony from my point of view.

PS3 = Sega Saturn
1. Complex hardware design, many high cost chips/CPU 2. difficult to write code, high development cost
3. Wrong prediction on games trends (Saturn emphasis on 2D games while PS emphasis on 3D games, PS3 emphasis on HD effect while Wii emphasis on new experience)
4. Poor marketing

DC:

I'm getting sick and tired of all the ridiculous equations steming from people on the net. The PS3 is not a Sega Saturn. The PS3 is not an N64. The 360 is not a Dreamcast, nor a PS1, nor a PS2, nor a Super Nintendo. The Wii is not a PS2. PS3 is not a PS2.

Shut the fuck up already, all machines are equal. All machines can be compared to other systems, but they're never equal. PS3 has tons of advantages over the Saturn and N64 situations. 360 has tons of advantages over the dreamcast situation. Wii has many disadvantages compared to the PS2, same for the PS3 and 360.

Conclusion:

Wii = Wii
PS3 = PS3
360 = 360

@Laura's Dave Barry quote

The debate is over. Dave Barry wins.

"b) the PS3 costs relatively more than the PS2 did compared to the competition"


James, please tell us how $200 more than the price of its competition is only "relatively more".



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Digi Smalls:

Do you know the definition of Relatively?

Let's put it this way: If you wanted backwards compatibility, WiFi, and playing online, then Xbox 360 would come out more expensive.

ERGO, PS3 is "RELATIVELY" more expensive, not ABSOLUTELY. Moron.

really, resorting to name calling now boots?

paying for backward compatibility, wi-fi and online huh - yeah really ties it back to this original article and the PS2 now...

they (and we) were talking about the price of entry.

i love how you guys always desperately grasp at added accessories NOT NECESSARY FOR GAMES for you to validate PS3's high price.

in fact, purely for playing games, the Core in 2007 is $300 cheaper than the PS3. it's "absolutely" the orginal price of the PS2 in 2000.


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yeah but the dreamcast didn't have 10 million unit lead and Nintendo wasn't around to kick sony's ass like it is now.

@ bootsielon

those equations are the best way to draw on the past and try to determine the future

Its how market analysis works, except that we gamers know what the market analysts don't, that consoles can basically fall into 1 of 5 schools of marketing style

1. Revolutionary: consoles marketed to more than the average gamer: NES, Wii, (to a lesser extent, because it targeted the PC gamer specifically,) Jaguar
2. 1st Party: consoles built to suit the needs of first party development teams: Master System, Genesis, N64, GC
3. Market Blitz: consoles that pioneer that generation: TG16, 3D0, DC, 360
4. Power: built to satisfy the hardcore gamer: 7800, Neo Geo, Saturn, Xbox, PS3
5. 3rd Party: built to appeal to all 3rd parties: SNES, PS1, PS2

thus those little equations do work, under those parameters

When the PS2 came out, DVD players costed over $700 and DVD wasnt even standard. I remember 95% of the population was still using tapes. No one could afford a DVD player. Until the PS2 came along, at the price of $300 you can play games AND watch DVD's. Games could be on DVD for faster load times and more storage. The PS2 made DVD the standard, which then helped sell the PS2 even more.

The PS3 on the otherhand, is promoting Blu-Ray, which is leading ahead of HD-DVD. But soon, when people have to throw away their old TV's and buy HDTV's because of the new law, then people will start to enjoy the qualities of Blu-Ray over HD-DVD. Also, because of the intensity of the Blu-Ray laser, they can add MUCH more layers to the disc to hold even more storage. And we all know in a year or so, HD-DVD will reach its limit and people will move on to Blu-Ray for more storage.

I remember when the PS2 came out, everyone wanted a Dreamcast, Dreamcast had lowered its price down to $125 just because of the PS2 launch. PS2 was more expensive, had "worser" graphics, and no good titles. A year later, people were still thinking Dreamcast will win. But shortly after that, no one even remembered what a Dreamcast was.

Even the PS1 launch was basically the same thing. But what made Playstation win each time was because they offered the format which can store more data, allowing developers to offer a more cinematic experience. Which was what sold FF7. "Not coming to a theater near you" was it's quote.

But just because PS1 and PS2 had major success doesn't mean the PS3 will beat the competition as badly. Of course the PS3 will win, but most likely only by a little margin.

Just think of this, 200+ million people who have owned a ps1/2 will most likely transfer to PS3 when the price drops and games come out.

The PS3 is becoming easier and easier to develop for as Sony keeps on releasing new dev-tools such as EDGE and etc. So production costs will go down. Which means more games in less time with better graphics and more time to emphasize on gameplay which equals higher sales.

And trust me when I say this, in two years, when the PS3's price drops a few hundred bucks, people will be swarming in to buy it. Most people aren't even buying next gen consoles yet. Most people have decided to buy a new PC instead. Mainly because they are waiting for the PS3's price to go down. And believe me, the world will be in "Shock and Awe" when the prices go down.

... and yes, I do believe the price of the PS3 is the major setback to the PS3. I also believe that PS3 will churn out some major selling games in a year. And once PS3 is widely available, people will be kickin it at "Home". More and more people will want to join in on all the fun of Blu-Ray, 1080P, Home, no online fees, built in hard drive, 7 wireless motion sensing controllers, great graphics, Guitar Band, Little Big Planet, Singstar, Uncharted, MGS4, and even curing cancer!!!! ^_^

At #52, Evans.

I don't know anyone else who has made a fool of themselves as much as you have in one post.

If you don't believe the power of the Cell Processor, then why has it shown up in Science magazines and Scientific research facilities all over the world? Sony even lets researchers test the Cell for themselves to see how powerful it is.

The Cell Processor itself is almost Super Computer. The Cell Processor is so efficient that multiple hospitals are planning to use it to display 3D models of the human body from putting together CT scan pictures in only a matter of seconds. Compared to the super-computers they were using which takes a minute to do the same thing the Cell can do in 4 seconds.

These are all websites about cell and what it can do. These are not according to what Sony wants to "lie" to us about.

http://www.mc.com/microsites/cell/

http://www.edn.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA6393560&ref=nbednnenews&industryid=2813

http://www.ddj.com/blog/portal/archives/2006/07/hpc_more_than_a.html

If you still don't believe how revolutionary Cell is, do some more research on it. And you'll realize how much of a breakthrough Cell was. No one else can make a microprocessor of that size with the ability to do THAT much calculations. Even the military wants to use Cell. Cell could even become a new product on the market for cell phones or other products. To make hardware cheaper and smaller but better. The possibilities are endless for Cell.

Most people just don't know all the potential Sony has created for the world just because of the PS3. Sony isn't the type of company to sit around and use whats best out there. No. They're the type to create an even BETTER solution. They're all set on revolutionizing technology. Stop hating on Sony and support it for it will change the world.

Oh yea, and this here is replies aimed at multiple people's comments on here. But I didn't keep track of who they were.
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The Dreamcast wasn't a rock solid console. They made it with the intentions of "upgrading" it whenever they see fit. Forcing the gamers to buy new stuff to upgrade it to play certain games. Which was why it failed.

Which is basically the same thing the 360 is doing with the HD-DVD add-on and HDMI ports.

Come on, the PS1 and PS2 might've had revisions to cut down prices on the hardware, but they didn't UPGRADE their specs.

And stop saying Microsoft is not Sega, the guy behind it all is still the same dude who planned out Sega. The only difference is that Microsoft has tons of money to waste on 360 to keep it in the game. Also, the death of Sega came from Sony's competition. And quickly after that, Xbox and Gamecube came out with better graphics, and was also easier to develop for. But none of that stopped the PS2.

Also, it doesn't matter about Halo3 hitting the stores. What matters is in the end, which console will have the most games that attract the widest audiences. This is the exact same reason why Sony never lost, and never will. Because Sony has the games that aim at EVERY audience.

"Most people just don't know all the potential Sony has created for the world just because of the PS3. Sony isn't the type of company to sit around and use whats best out there. No. They're the type to create an even BETTER solution. They're all set on revolutionizing technology. Stop hating on Sony and support it for it will change the world."

holy shit, Rocky. you are the reason PR people exist. they are shephards of people just like you.

PS2 was a succesful console, but it wasn't a tenth of what Sony said it would be. why do you believe them now?

the Cell is a powerful specialized processor, but you won't find many articles saying that GAMING is one of those specialties. in fact you'll find many more saying the opposite. medicine and static number crunching aside, thats why at the last minute they had to go and buy an off the shelf part from Nvidia after seeing the specs of the 360.

so much for revolutionary.


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lol @ rocky

your vision sounds good, but the only problem is price. While PS2 only had to drop from $300, PS3 has to drop from $600, in the face of 1 competitor that could easily be down to $200 in a year and another that could have the "good" version down to $300 in that same time period

a lot of parallels can be drawn between PS3 and its predecessors, but that price will be the killing factor that offsets it, in the end

also, can people stop referring to that "law" that's supposed to sweep HDTV into every home in America?

that law isn't taking effect until 2009 at this point, when it originally was scheduled for this year, and if HDTV adoption rates don't get to a realistic point by 2009, it'll be delayed again

plus, by 09, unless we see all the competitors remain neck-and-neck throughout, this generation will be pretty well decided