Starcraft pro gamers: a lesson in culture, ownage
One of today's hottest videos on YouTube is a recent match between Starcraft legend SlayerS_'BoxeR' (real name Lim Yo-Hwan) and Nal_rA (real name Kang Min). that was televised in Korea. Those who still play Starcraft (and with the sequel just announced, there's no better time to start again) could glean a lot from the 30-minute video, while nonenthusiasts can get a kick out of seeing professional coverage of a decade-old PC game, with involved spectators and expressive announcers.
Fun fact: Hwan, also known as the "Terran Emporer," reportedly earns about US $390,000 and has a professional record of 500 wins and 336 losses. Video embedded after the break.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
StevO @ May 27th 2007 12:13AM
god bless boxer. what a mad genius.
XGamerX @ May 27th 2007 12:34AM
wtf nr rush 20 min. lol im suprised they dont use the maps that gives you the most minerals. Guess they like it old school.
http://gamergeddon.com/
David @ May 27th 2007 12:37AM
I wonder if they wear glasses or if they are just so hardcore that they need eye protection to play.
fps_gene @ May 27th 2007 12:41AM
I'm such a nub.... awesome show.
Sensai @ May 27th 2007 1:24AM
Boxer. Is. God.
orAngeMicro @ May 27th 2007 1:42AM
lol @ david
this is funny you mention this i was just watching the starcraft networks on ppm earlier today... they're a blast to watch while your stoned. i love it when the announcers get excited.
Negativecool @ May 27th 2007 2:58AM
David-
They are shatter resistant protective eyewear... because they are so hardcore. I'm truly surprised they don't wear mouthguards and sweat bands as well....because they are so HARD....CORE!
Dan @ May 27th 2007 3:37AM
Ya know..I used to be in an elitist clan. Watching that nearly made me gag. I wish I was their to play them how we all used to play. That was quite slow and boring. That protoss player had a chance at winning when he was using the ship drops against the main front having the tanks rip eachother apart. But they both played really conservative..to the point where they missed so many opportunities to win. Right from the start the no rushing was a mistake. Oh well.
Jay @ May 27th 2007 3:51AM
Dan - Come on.. Thats like say "Oh damit! I would have done this and this! They shouldn't have done this!" while your watching professional sports.
Kn1ves @ May 27th 2007 4:09AM
Dan's one of THOSE guys.
Jecrell @ May 27th 2007 4:45AM
In a professional game, it doesn't matter who wins or loses, but who can humiliate the other person the most in about half-an-hour, and thus gain a ton of $$$ for putting on a good show.
@Dan: omg, I used to play starcraft 1, zerg rush always winz!111one.
kim chi @ May 27th 2007 4:49AM
@xgamerx
they dont play cheap money map shit like everyone else in america and mass everything.. they play it with strategy and skills.
Ihar `Philips` Filipau @ May 27th 2007 4:51AM
Such guys *destroy* gaming.
Because they are not gamers - they are professionals.
They do not like to play games - they like to pwn people.
If they would get into StartCraft2 beta testing expect nothing good from the game.
P.S. and list of example ex-good games destroyed by uber-kool beta testers is *very* long. because when normal people buy such game - they find it totally unplayable. recall MOO3 fiasco.
shaoron @ May 27th 2007 5:02AM
@13
same can be said with Jordan and Tiger Woods then...
Jecrell @ May 27th 2007 5:04AM
@Ithar
By merely mentioning MOO3 you have cursed this comment thread.
Kinsella @ May 27th 2007 10:46AM
"Professional gamers" is a term that makes me sick to my stomach.
Kim Jong-il @ May 27th 2007 11:08AM
Bring on the kimchi pancakes!
Mr Khan @ May 27th 2007 11:32AM
heh, they're just like my friend, except he doesn't get paid and he's hispanic...
LongshotX @ May 27th 2007 11:47AM
What a strange people...those Koreans.
oomu @ May 27th 2007 12:28PM
it's nice and entertaining
if people are paid for that I said : "good for them !".
Korean are just normal people with some TV broadcast of games.
Y The Fish @ May 27th 2007 1:04PM
I love watching these. Now I need to reinstall my Starcraft tho --- after all these years I still keep going back to it.
But reminding me about the existence of Money Maps makes my stomach to ache. Ugh. Let's hope I can still find a proper game from the ladder without that crap.
Patryk @ May 27th 2007 1:39PM
SlayerS_`BoxeR` is a beast. Looks like his service to the Air Force may have just ended. Good time to get prepared for Starcraft II.
Luigi193 @ May 27th 2007 1:45PM
ok
mike @ May 27th 2007 2:16PM
I agree with Dan. Both these player were not very good at all. The terren guy has 2 tanks and 4 marines while the other guy has 8 dragoons. All he needed was like 4 zealots with those dragoons and game over. Also the drop, he drops his 2 zealots on the non seiged tank. It must be because they watn to put on a show because Ive seen thousands of players better then these 2, including myself (well myself when I used to play starcraft, I would probably stumble now)
Mark @ May 27th 2007 2:29PM
Just for the record you called him by his middle name....
"Hwan"
Korean names go Family Name (last name for us), Given Name (first name then middle name)...
so his name is actually
Yo-Hwan Lim
A lot of people made this same mistake with the Virginia Tech massacre and were addressing the shooter by his last name..
bobartig @ May 27th 2007 2:38PM
@Dan: I was actually also really surprised by the molasses-like pace of this game. There were several moments of brilliant macro here and there, but it looks like everyone had given up on the micro and early game was nonexistant.
I've seen quite a few of the professional korean players' matches, and its clear to me that these guys are masters of micro, and can turn on a dime and adapt to almost anything... but this match ended up being heavy carriers versus nukes? wtf?
Mark @ May 27th 2007 2:59PM
also Yo-Hwan is the one on the right
Emma @ May 27th 2007 5:48PM
Dan and Mike, not that I watched the clip, but if Boxer and people at his level are playing in it... I'm sorry, but I find it extremely unlikely that you would have any kind of chance against that kind of people. They've trained day and night for many many years and are the best of the best korea has to offer; normal people can't compare.The reason things don't look very impressive is simply because every single unit means so much to them, spamming tons of units isn't something that will win you a game. If you try spamming at this level, your opposition will know and counter you accordingly - you've used up resources, he has not.
Aberu @ May 27th 2007 6:13PM
I hate it when people put down professionals that are at the top of their earning bracket in prize money and claim they are better. It is so BS. If you are better you are wasting your life by posting on this blog. I was in the top 100 consistently of Red Alert 2's online ranking, sadly it never took off like SC did. Doesn't mean I can go around telling the top 10 people NOW that they suck. I wouldn't be able to beat them anymore. If you really are that good you would be playing pro because you could make money. There are plenty of westerners in teams/groups that train for SC and get paid to play in Korea.
Bottom line, if you were as good, you would be playing, because part of being good is having the balls to take the risk of entering championships instead of just doing online scrims.
hi @ May 27th 2007 6:54PM
@bobartig
I thought the use of nuke was an easy (and playful) way of depriving the Protoss player of his resources. Yeah, sure Terran could have used his goliaths to destroy the Protoss multi base. But that would have taken too long and the carriers would have interfered. Now, with the nuke and EMP combo it's quick and easy, especially with all the resources the Terran player amassed.
Justin U @ May 27th 2007 7:19PM
Wow...
They use Hacked Maps. Ramps don't point northwards. How funny. I guess that makes the game... more fair?
Either way, I found it quite funny.
Sigrun @ May 27th 2007 7:19PM
Dan and Mike, watch the WWI 2007 Blizzard Invitationals- top foreigners from across the globe versus top ranked Koreans (sAviOr, NaDa, Nal_Ra, Bisu). And watch how the foreigners get their asses beat.
You don't stand a chance.
rip @ May 27th 2007 8:43PM
Having watched that, I have to say I wasn't all that impressed with the protoss guy. The terran was pretty good.
The protoss looks like he didn't properly execute the reaver drop. He didn't try a rush? No balanced attack... at all. And he didn't even build a decent defensive position for his home base.
I wasn't a "pro" but I was pretty decent at Starcraft. Good enough to get bored with the competition. I loved those starship trooper maps.
Come to think of it, I should fire up starcraft again, just to open a can of whoopass.
ZippyDSMlee @ May 27th 2007 9:27PM
Professionals do what they do best for a job and might even make a hobby out of it.
I am gamer..my hobby is life and I suck at it :P
c-lee @ May 27th 2007 10:26PM
Haha, i can't believe ppl think this is noob play.
Those two are the best of the best in the world. The reason why they not hassling each other as much is because they respect each other too much. They are both very good micro but they seem to be playing not to lose.
helm @ May 27th 2007 10:56PM
@rip
His reaver drop was to take out the armory not SCVs. It was trickier in his case because the armory was surrounded by supply depots and his shuttle was spotted as he was trying to find the armory. Reaver drop against SCVs are pretty easy to avoid btw, especially for pros.
I think the Protoss player lost because he was too behind in terms of resources. I mean the terran player had two multi's while protoss only had one. Too bad he didn't do anything about it. He paid the price with all those upped goliaths and a nuke (a friggin nuke!).
And what kind of defensive position should he have considered? I hope you're not talking about photon cannons... Not when there are siege tanks. I think he should have used his high templars better. I think he forgot all about them admist the chaos that he just let them die at their rally point. I loved how the moment the terran player saw the templars he sent in all of his vultures to take them out only that they weren't even being controlled at all.
Jason @ May 27th 2007 11:27PM
"Professionals do what they do best for a job and might even make a hobby out of it.
I am gamer..my hobby is life and I suck at it"
Wow, Zippy, that is awesome.
hagure @ May 28th 2007 12:30AM
Its easy to say "Rush ftw!" But if you don't succeed, you're in a really bad state. At that level of play, its not the smartest move. EOS. If you want some faster games, just look at the other matches that are up. Many thanks to the ULs.
whiny bitch @ May 28th 2007 1:26AM
The second half was a little dull-- a Terran with that kind of resource advantage is just going to own the Protoss. What's he going to do against that many minerals into metal? He needed to win earlier, and didn't.
Still, while I've seen a number of better Starcraft matches, it's always fun to see the announcing and crowd reactions. So exciting!
rip @ May 28th 2007 2:33AM
@ helm I agree with most of what you said... seems his main problem was that he didn't locate his enemy as fast. That and he didn't locate other resources soon enough. And your right, he seems to have mismanaged his forces a bit. It seemed like he had decent builds, but didn't use them properly. The terran player on the other hand, pretty much schooled him. But I thought the nuke was a bit cheesy.
As for defense, he could have placed a few cannons closer in. To protect against a drop at least. Your right about the seige tank part though.
It's been years since I've played the game so I'm a bit rusty. But just looking at the vid, it seemed like the protoss could have done a lot better.
@ kim chi. Your like the guy in the espn commercials. Just talking out of your ass. I'd say your the moron for just making assumptions, then starting with the insults. Either that or a fanboy for a starcraft player? Which might actually be sadder. Money maps are what they are. I played everything. And like I said, got bored with all of them. Actually, I liked playing maps with minimal resources. But why would you know that? You wouldn't, you tool.
And regarding rushes. A decent player can defend a rush. But the point of a rush often is just to harass, distract and delay. Obviously, if you take them out, all the better. But if the other guy has to spend time and resources dealing with it, it's still useful. I thought it surprising that neither attempted one.
Rare Hare @ May 28th 2007 5:30AM
@rip:
the point is man, you're talking out your ass. don't get me wrong: i was never much good at StarCraft online. i beat all the single player campaigns and then got owned against other people (partially due to a slow internet connection).
but these are the best players in the WORLD. it's like you criticizing Tiger Woods's golf swing.
if you honestly think you can beat these guys, then start entering competitions. maybe in a couple years Joystiq will be writing articles about YOU. but i doubt it.
dan @ May 28th 2007 3:26PM
I just spoke to a friend of mine living in Korea (and a ex-semi-pro Starcraft player) about this match... his comments are:
1. About the slow pace of game in the beginning: When Slayers_boxer went for the 5 o'clock expansion early in the game, he fully expected that it'll get discovered very soon, and he'll be forced to defend that expansion in a handful-of-zealots-plus-a-few-dragoons vs. bunker-plus-a-few-tanks type of small battles. He went for early siege-tank tech-tree for this purpose. Then he realized that the protoss has yet to discover the expansion. (In fact, I think he never sees it until the end.) So, he decided that if the expansion will go unmolested, then it'd be in his best interest to gather units and resources as much as possible before the first battle, since the early marine-medic rush timing is already well-past by the time he realizes the expansion will go unnoticed.
2. Slayers_boxer is still in military. In fact, the Korean Air Force decided that it's a better use of human resources to use these pro gamers for marketing purposes, and started their own pro Starcraft team. So, Slayers_boxer returns to the pro circuit, now as part of the Air Force starcraft team. This is because, in Korea, people get drafted into the Army for a compulsory service, but Air Force is purely all-volunteer force. They need to market themselves... they can't draft anyone. Apparently, ever since their Starcraft team launched, their recruitments are way up, so I guess it's working.
Chad @ May 28th 2007 3:27PM
LOL who cares about these ;pp
kim chi @ May 28th 2007 9:55PM
@rip
rip is a moron, he's talking about money maps and buidling millions of photon cannons at the choke liek a moron.. these pros dont play money custom maps u moron.. go ahead and fire up sc again all you'll see in america is money maps
TheBigDude @ May 29th 2007 11:11AM
@ #42 dan :
i love it when people claim they are so much better than professionals, and post comments about it on websites.
it just makes you sound like a loser ex-high school football player. "i could have made it in the big leagues!" wa-wa-wa.
best thing you wrote though: "I just spoke to a friend of mine living in Korea (and a ex-semi-pro Starcraft player) about this match... his comments are:"
...no those are YOUR comments. you don't know anyone. if he really exists then he could post his comments for himself. they're too long and detailed for you to "remember."
oh wait... before i type anymore let me go ask my friend Snoop Dogg for advice on what to say...
Joe Smith @ May 29th 2007 1:56PM
Man, talk about cultural differences -- I mean, Starcraft was fun, but to make it into a national obsession seems a little out there. These guys have amazing skills, but I find it pretty weird that developing expertise at an old PC RTS is something anyone would devote their life to.
jisturkey @ Jun 13th 2007 2:29AM
I got a boner watching that