Ubisoft admits to over-porting Wii
While EA was caught off guard by the Wii, Ubisoft ended up over-saturating. Ubisoft CEO Yves Guillemot now admits that "mistakes" were made in just porting games with tacked-on controls. Although many can debate the quality of original titles like Rayman Raving Rabbids and Red Steel (both reached the million sold mark), it's not so easy to be kind about sloppy ports FarCry: Vengeance and Prince of Persia: Rival Swords. Speaking with German über magazine Spiegel, Guillemot admits that they sacrificed quality in their haste to capitalize on the Wii.Well, hopefully Ubisoft learned its lesson and got enough cash from the Wii to put some effort behind the next crop of games. They've already announced a sequel for the Rabbids at their UbiDays event, but there really isn't too much else announced in the Ubisoft Wii pipeline. Maybe they'll save the Wii announcements for E3, despite Guillemot's feelings about the event.
[Via WiiFanboy]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Koopaknight29 @ May 31st 2007 4:32PM
Well glad to see that they owned up to that one, now lets see some action behind those semantics...
Mr Khan @ May 31st 2007 4:35PM
Captain Obvious says hi
sheppy @ May 31st 2007 4:41PM
I just think their action on Wii lowered their status amongst gamers and they had to do SOMETHING to redeem themselves. Don't worry though. By Christmas? Red Steel 2, Raving Rabbits 2 (not a bad thing), Prince Of Persia: Wiggler Within, Ghost Recon: Advanced Railshooter, and at least 4 more generic racers with sterring wheels bundled in...
Captain Obvious @ May 31st 2007 4:43PM
hi
JodyAnthony @ May 31st 2007 4:44PM
"4. hi
Posted at 4:43PM on May 31st 2007 by Captain Obvious"
brilliant!
Terrak @ May 31st 2007 4:46PM
If they continued doing that $#!t Nintendo should have banned them from making anymore Wii games altogether. F**kers put all the new stuff on other consoles and just ported games to make quick buck of the Wii's unprecedented success. Thats why i haven't bought any Ubisoft stuff for the Wii until they get there act together.
Lets hope this isn't just mere talk on there part
and that they are serious.
erac3rx @ May 31st 2007 4:47PM
Well at least he owned up to it. As we all know the Wii is home to more poorly rated games (as a percentage of total releases) than 360 and PS3, by a long shot... and Ubi definitely contributed. I agree with the comments that their credibility has taken a hit lately... if they don't turn it around soon they might as well just let EA take them over...
zwarrior @ May 31st 2007 4:55PM
Who cares, its not a stupid statement they should have made, they should take action, since that speaks louder than words. PS3 and Xbox 360 are getting Haze, Endwar, Conivction, etc. and what the heck are Wii owners getting? A slap in the face that's what; "My word Coach," so now we don't deserve quality games and you think we can't spell, F U Ubi, F U
Grog @ May 31st 2007 4:55PM
Hmm... I was under the impression that the Prince of Persia game was decent, though still a port. Metacritic has an average rating of 71 which, while not very high, would indicate that it was at least average.
Far Cry, on the other hand...
cc123 @ May 31st 2007 4:57PM
"Hi Wii gamers! We are like soooo sorry for telling you how awesome our games were when all along we knew they were flaming turds.
Please buy our new games coming this Fall. We promise they are totally awesome!"
-Ubisoft '07, '08, '09...
sheppy @ May 31st 2007 5:11PM
"If they continued doing that $#!t Nintendo should have banned them from making anymore Wii games altogether."
You've SEEN any given Nintendo handheld library, right? Provided you pay licensing, Nintendo won't tell you no. The shite that passes through the "quality assurance" program is hilarious. In other words, as long as Ubi pays da dough, Nintendo isn't going to come even remotely close to stopping a game, no matter how horrid.
Patrick @ May 31st 2007 5:15PM
i used to have respect for ubisoft but the last year and a half has lowered them, to ea level imo
BPM @ May 31st 2007 5:18PM
Can they redeem themselves, though, I wonder.
Crono @ May 31st 2007 5:24PM
Thats true sheppy, but that is only because their "quality assurance" is what drove all the publishers to playstation in the 90's, because sony's "quality assurance" let anything go through as long as they paid the licensing.
Ironic, no?
OrganicShadow @ May 31st 2007 5:25PM
Release those two games later on in the lifespan of the Wii instead and see if they sell a million copies. Half the reason the crap Red Steel displayed was even tolerated is because of consumer curiosity.
Rayman's not that bad, but it's certainly not the best it could have been, and my statement about it not reaching 1 million sold if release later on still stands.
Perhaps Ubisoft is doing a bit of damage control with this statement, even though it seems to just be adding to the damage. They keep talking about not wanting to make PS3 games, talking about how PS3 and 360 aren't selling enough, trying to calm down the rumors of being bought out by EA, and now they're admitting to doing sloppy ports?
I can see EA writing the check right now. They just can't resist any help they can get at releasing sloppy games on every platform under the sun. Ubisoft will have to eat their words when that happens too, as EA isn't going to leave any stones unturned, not even PS3.
XGamerX @ May 31st 2007 5:26PM
im glad they say this while they reap record profits
Craigo @ May 31st 2007 5:33PM
15: I find it really weird that EA has actually produced two of the smartest uses of waggle on the Wii: Madden and Godfather, both of which I feel are underrated. It's as if my entire world has been turned upside down. Next thing you know, Sony will be releasing affordable hardware and MS will rule Japan.
Of course, they also made MoH: Vanguard, so it kinda almost evens out.
AoE @ May 31st 2007 5:37PM
Wow, a lot of you are acting like Mr. Guillemot ran over your puppy and then backed up, got out of his SUV, kicked you to the ground, and laughed about it... Just out of interest, those of you who are loudly complaining, how many Ubi games did you purchase at launch, and which ones? I'm curious because, you know... I'm willing to bet none of the whiners here actually purchased a copy of Far Cry, did you? And if you did, feel free to keep venting. Except you zwarrior, you forgot your pills this morning I think...
And for the record, I got GT Pro Series in a bundle the day the Wii dropped; I returned it at another store and got Rayman Raving Rabbids (which I was quite pleased with) and Red Steel (which I was not so pleased with, but it didn't give me the "Yves Guillemot is out to destroy my life" feeling that you all seem to have.) Honestly, Kudos to him for actually owning up to the fact they made some shitty titles; it's a sincere move, IMO.
3cubedminus3squared @ May 31st 2007 5:58PM
The only game I want from UbiSoft anytime soon is Assasin's Creed.
Gavin @ May 31st 2007 6:08PM
How is owning a Wii like being in the Merchant Marines for too long?
Every week it's just another port that you've already seen before.
GodisaMyth @ May 31st 2007 6:34PM
Why get mad at Ubisoft? Why not port a PS2 or GameCube game to a WeeCube? It is the basically the same tech and the same generation. You want new games?
Get a RedRingofDeath 60 or a PS3.
robothouse @ May 31st 2007 7:02PM
@GodisaMyth
PS3? New games? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
And yes, that all was necessary.
BPM @ May 31st 2007 7:09PM
ROBOT HOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUSEEEE!!!
GodisaMyth @ May 31st 2007 7:16PM
HAWRHAWRHAWRHAWRHAWRHAWRHAWRHAWRHAWRHAWRHAWRHAWR....
See? I can do all caps too, gawrsh yer funny, huhyup.
Even though the PS3 does not have very many games out....it in my opinion already has more "actual new" games than the WeeCube.
And by this Mythmass, you will be playing your craptacular minigames and Mario this, Mario that, and Mario other, while I will be playing Drake, Haze, GTA4, Lair, LBP, DMC4, R&C and many more.
accidental @ May 31st 2007 7:36PM
GG calling it a WeeCube you insecure little turd. Its making a bitch out of our PS3s right now.
GodisaMyth @ May 31st 2007 7:39PM
WeeCube is outselling the PS3 because it is less than half the cost and it appeals to the non-gamer. Interesting isnt it, a game console that appeals to people who do not play games.
Sorry, just because a bunch of lemmings are buying it does not make it good.
I will take a RedRingofDeath 60 over a WeeCube anyday.
SuperMario21 @ May 31st 2007 7:55PM
@GodisaMyth
Actually if you look at the line up for the Wii this fall and winter, you see very few games that are mini-game based. I know you feel insure about you $600 paperweight but its ok, you can always trade it in and get a Nintendo Wii that has a superior line up than your paperweight. Mario, Super Smash Bros, Nights 2, Sonic and Mario, Dragon Quest Swords, Final Fantasy: CB, Disaster: Day of Crisis...its going to be a great holiday for Wii owners
Nathaniel N. @ May 31st 2007 7:56PM
Red Steel was loosely enjoyable and at times a brilliant shooter. Though the game was mired by irritable glitches and a general unfinished quality to it. I defintely understand why it's seen as a "bad game", though unfortunately the creative ideas implemented just weren't done properly or done at all.
Really looking forward to Red Steel 2. I expect great things from that, hoping of course the team in Montreal have much more time to finish it up.
Rubang B @ May 31st 2007 8:12PM
Red Steel was a hit-and-miss experiment for a new control scheme. The last level was awesome, and the cheesy plot was hilarious. It was a fun campy romp through a bad 80s action movie. A sequel would probably be 10 times better.
And GodisaMyth, The Wii is outselling the PS3 because it comes with Wii Sports which is the most "next-gen" game out right now. It makes people want to buy a new gaming system. People see it in a mall for the first time and their jaws drop and they have to play it. They pick their sport of choice, fall in love, and then they hear the price and start hunting for one. Then their brother or mom or neighbor sees it and suddenly they need one. Gears or Resistance or whatever do not have a similar effect on people. Those games are shooters. Shooters are nothing new.
And yes, Microsoft priced themselves out of the casual impulse buy market, and Sony priced themselves out of the Earth market.
GodisaMyth @ May 31st 2007 8:14PM
27. @GodisaMyth
Actually if you look at the line up for the Wee this fall and winter, you see very few games that are mini-game based. I know you feel insure about you $600 paperweight but its ok,
I feel as unsure about my $600 paperweight that I can watch Bd's on my 50" Panny as I did about my $300 paperweight that I watched DVD's on till the good games started coming out in droves.
you can always trade it in and get a Nintendo Wee that has a superior line up than your paperweight.
Superior line up....sure if all I wanted was CRAP.
Mario, CRAP Super Smash Bros,KINDA CRAP Nights 2,GAY CRAP Sonic and Mario,MEGA CRAP Dragon Quest Swords,OK Final Fantasy: CB,GOT ME ON THAT ONE Disaster: Day of Crisis LOOKS INTERESTING...its going to be a great holiday for WeeCube owners
Your opinion and mine...are different that's all.
Your system is CRAP and most of what it will have is CRAP.
CRAPCRAPCRAPCRAPCRAP....Mega Crap
Rubang B @ May 31st 2007 8:35PM
I'm sorry but your opinion is CRAP.
Meloche @ May 31st 2007 8:41PM
GodisaMyth, you lose the little credibility you had. SMG and SSBB, crap? Sure... -_-+
GodisaMyth @ May 31st 2007 8:44PM
"Wii Sports which is the most "next-gen" game out right now."
For something to be called next-gen does it not have to contain some new hardware? The WeeCube is not next-gen or even current-gen....it is last-gen with a tacky, wave your arms around like an epileptic controller.
GodisaMyth @ May 31st 2007 8:51PM
@32
I know that I am in the minority when it comes to Mario game #500,000. I have not had a hard-on for the Plumber since oh, about 1987 give or take a year.
My 8+ years spent in the industry just reinforced my belief that Mario had run it's course and that it is just re-hashed crap over and over.
Sorry if I am not a lemming.
Mario and all of his pals are full of CRAP.
It's ok if you still like to hop around in a plumber outfit landing on cute little furry enemies with your butt and eating shrooms so that you can shoot fireballs. I don't...I am not 12 anymore
chalito @ May 31st 2007 9:07PM
The way you post you must be like 13 then.
"For something to be called next-gen does it not have to contain some new hardware?"
Right, congratulations, you got a super powerful processor, now you can have 10x the resolution, 10x details on the textures, and loads of shiny new visual effects, on the *same games* you played the last few years. Good for you.
I don't give a shit what's under the hood, as long as the game I'm playing is fun, and I do like to play old games that I've enjoyed too, but I'm not paying a shitload of money just to have them repainted. If you like that, and your daddy has the cash to drop on it, then by all means, be happy and play ps3, but please stop acting like a 5yr old in a pissing contest, and go comment on ps3 stories.
Thank you.
Grog @ May 31st 2007 9:14PM
"For something to be called next-gen does it not have to contain some new hardware?"
It does... the Wiimote.
GodisaMyth @ May 31st 2007 9:29PM
"36. "For something to be called next-gen does it not have to contain some new hardware?"
'It does... the Wiimote."
No, the weemote is a peripheral, not hardware.
"I don't give a shit what's under the hood, as long as the game I'm playing is fun,'
Let me translate that for you....you dont give a shit if Nintendo bends you over and makes you pay $250 for a GameCube that they sell for $100. Yeah, that makes alot of sense.
If you do not care what's under the hood, then I suggest going on Ebay and finding a Texas Instruments TRS-80 or Trash 80...it has some great games, so what if your character is just a block...graphics dont matter right?
Nexas @ May 31st 2007 9:38PM
Well its nice to know that they admit it at least, but I still won't be taking them seriously until they put some good games on the Wii.
Oh and GodisaMyth PS3fanboy is the next door to your right.
Number Six @ May 31st 2007 10:05PM
Ya know, sometimes I get the feeling that I'm the only person on the planet that honestly thinks Far Cry Vengeance isn't all that bad.
...and the ridicule starts in 3...
2...
1...
yomanDS @ May 31st 2007 10:08PM
Is anybody surprised about comments like the ones GodisaMyth posted. I am sure as hell not. Joystiq's comment sections are fully-fledged cesspools for noisy little kids like GodisaMyth. Arrogance is like an art to some people. If you don't like a particular videogame that is fine. What's not fine is how people so full of themselves and their own opinions come here and talk trash like it's their job.
I am fine with debates or someone expressing a difference in opinion. I engage in debates and I don't at all mind a difference in opinion or expressing one myself. I enjoy listening to other people's comments, that's why I read them after all. However, when the high and mighty, know-it-all, smack talking clowns come in, they come in fully prepared to ridicule every one of your thoughts they don't agree with. They are the catalyst that drags the entire story to hell.
I don't care what we're talking about, if somebody comes in here with the childish, smug, "I know better than you" attitude, I officially don't give a $#&@ what he/she thinks anymore. I move on to the next story and wait for that article to be trashed by someone.
(On Topic) Red Steel 2 better be good.
Rubang B @ May 31st 2007 11:13PM
I've had a boner for Mario since 1981 when Donkey Kong came out, and I was born in 1983. Yes, my boner is 2 years older than me. What are you gonna do about it GodisaMyth? You gonna dis my boner? Bring it.
Go grab a non-gaming stranger and ask them which game is more "next-gen" between any 10 games at random and Wii Sports. Then punch yourself in the face for saying "next-gen" to a non-gaming stranger.
erac3rx @ May 31st 2007 11:59PM
Okay, I'll jump in. GodiasMyth actually made some valid points, amidst some puerile commentary and PS3 Fanboyism. Let me try to articulate why, as a PS3, 360, and Wii owner I am fairly convinced that the Wii will provide the shortest lifespan and fewest AAA titles of the bunch:
The hardware--by Nintendo's own admission-- is essentially an overclocked gamecube. Not capable of anything above 480P, and not capable of playing DVDs. This is a somewhat moot point now, but does not bode well for franchises or games that are defined by an emphasis on graphic realism in their games. Many franchises-- Final Fantasy, DOA, Ninja Gaiden, Call of Duty, nearly all sports simulations, MGS, DMC, GTA IV-- are identified as next-gen and are sold based on graphics that push their respective genres. All of those games will be at their best on PS3 and 360, and therefore all of us that own either in addition to the Wii will be buying them on those platforms... unless the Wii controls lend themselves extremely well to it (Tiger Woods, Cooking Mama, etc). It doesn't affect Nintendo's franchises very much, since they have--for years-- relied nearly exclusively on a more cartoony or at least stylized art style for decades. In a nutshell, the games that push the realism envelope aren't going to appear on Wii, because the hardware doesn't compare to the competitors.
The Wii will be dominated by superb Nintendo products, a few quality third party titles that effectively utilize the Wiimote, and filled in by an avalanche of subpar ports and subpar games aimed squarely at kids. That's not fanboyism, that's reality.
As those subpar ports quit selling, and it gets harder and harder to take PS3/360 titles and replicate them on the Wii, they will quit appearing on the platform... just like on Gamecube and N64.
And that's the funny part about what Guillemot said that people aren't really getting. He's not saying 'we will try harder with our shooter ports like Far Cry,' he's saying 'we're not going to bother with ports of graphic-reliant titles like Far Cry and racing sims, but rather focus on titles like Rabbids which will actually sell on the Wii.'
Unless of course they get bought by EA, in which case their games will appear on ALL platforms, regardless of quality...
GodisaMyth @ Jun 1st 2007 12:04AM
"If you don't like a particular videogame that is fine. What's not fine is how people so full of themselves and their own opinions come here and talk trash like it's their job."
So, you decide what is acceptable in a blog? Now who's the arrogant one.
"when the high and mighty, know-it-all, smack talking clowns come in"
When did I say I was a know-it-all? I am not the one dictating what kind of comments people are allowed to leave.
"I don't care what we're talking about, if somebody comes in here with the childish, smug, "I know better than you" attitude, I officially don't give a $#&@ what he/she thinks anymore. I move on to the next story and wait for that article to be trashed by someone."
Do you actually read what you post? You sir, are the hypocrites of hypocrites. Do you want a golf clap for your incredible lack of reason?
I am going to say it again...just for you. And I will put it in all caps so you can see it better.
YOUR OPINION AND MINE....ARE DIFFERENT, THAT'S ALL.
MY OPINION (specifically on the wee) IS DIFFERENT FROM YOUR OPINION OF THE WEE. AND YOU KNOW WHAT? IT'S OK TO HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION ON THE SAME SUBJECT, THAT IS WHAT MAKES US ALL INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE.
In my opinion, I think Ubisoft did the only thing they thought they could do to make money in a launch period of a "new" game console. They made a bunch of rushed ports. The hardware is the same (that is NOT my opinion but a stated fact from both Nintendo and IBM) both chips are smaller, and they run at a faster clock speed that's the ONLY difference. If you still do not believe then you are dillusional.
In my opinion the wee is a piece of crap, it is a joke, it is a scam, and in my opinion in 2 years at most, I think it will be within a year and a half, the wee will look so small and sad and outclassed by mainly the PS3 and somewhat the Crap 60.
I look foward to that day, just knowing those of you who are in love with their wee, will be saying to themselves...damn, the Plumber played me for a fool, and I fell for it.
Remember oh mighty one who decides what is acceptable to post....it is JUST MY OPINION.
yomanDS @ Jun 1st 2007 1:20AM
@GodisaMyth
First of all, I don't own a wii and don't plan to buy one for a while. I am not the "wii guy". My comment was not to defend wii AT ALL. Second of all, while my comment mentioned you, it was not targeted at you but rather any trolls who comment here.
"So, you decide what is acceptable in a blog?
No. Where did I say that? My comments were observations about antagonistic, rude, or childish comments that found a home on joytiq comment sections. They are all too common here. Why would I mention you as a culprit of such comments? I'll tell you.
1.) Read the title of the article. "Ubisoft admits to over-porting Wii." Now read your first comment. Wii=Gamecube/new games only on 360/PS3. It seems this story was an excuse to talk crap about the wii. That falls under the antagonistic category.
2.)Criticizing people who buy a wii. They're lemmings right? That falls under the rude category.
3.)"its going to be a great holiday for WeeCube owners" You know "wiicube" owners don't consider it crap so what's with the sarcasm. That falls under the antagonistic category.
4.)"I don't...I am not 12 anymore" Patronizing mario gamers. That falls under the rude/childish category.
That is why I was annoyed by your comment. The other commentators that were annoyed by your comments may or may not share my same thoughts.
"Do you actually read what you post? You sir, are the hypocrites of hypocrites. Do you want a golf clap for your incredible lack of reason?"
I'm sorry but I just don't know what you mean by that. Losing respect for someone because they are being a jerk is hypocritical?
"Remember oh mighty one who decides what is acceptable to post....it is JUST MY OPINION."
As I alluded to, it's not your opinion I find offensive. It's the way you present it.
Wes @ Jun 1st 2007 4:46AM
I'm sorry YomanDS but I am going to have to side with GodisaMyth on this one. Although his comments might be worded a bit towards making an outcry/debate, he has very valid points.
Very valid from my perspective. Yes, graphics and hardware are not everything but I tend to side with him in your statement that 'Wii-Sports' is the most 'next-gen' console.
I think it would be about 8 years ago I used to belong to a bowling league. In the bowling alley, they had this nifty game. It was a bowling simulator. You rolled a ball with your palm to simulate bowling moves like hook, straight shots, curved shots, etc.
It was a controller designed to simulate the sport! Imagine that? and it was developed ...7? 8? maybe more years before the Wii even came out. I don't know how a game that uses a new perphial to simulate the results of technology available/concepted 7-8 years ago can be considered next gen?
Similarly, there was a boxing game from about that time where you grabbed onto two boxing-game controllers, one with the left hand, one for the right hand. You'd move your right controller from Left > top to do an upper cut, straight down to block, etc. Designed to simulate once again, the motions made in a sport. Amazing, isn't it?
You know something interesting though? Despite the neat controls on both those arcade machines, its very very very hard to find either of them in modern arcades. Want to know why? Basically its because the graphics on these games were also from the early 90s. The boxing game was the equivilent of virtual fighter. The bowling game reminded me of a dos-based 256 color 320x240 game.
Yes, I too was shocked to hear that my beloved bowling game with 'next-gen' controls and 'last-gen' graphics would not continue to exist in arcades into the 21st and for that matter the 22nd century? It has good controls? Why wouldn't virtual fighter 1 graphics be enough for the year 2100? It truely truely rocked my world.
At least I can always try to concentrate on the good side of life and think to myself. Thank heavens I only wasted a few dollars on each machine in quarters. At least they didn't make play $250.00 for the whole machine that now adays would probably be worth only $50-$100.00 just cause it had 'next-gen' controls.
What would be really sad is if I actually found the arcade machine on sale for $100.00 and told the guy how cool I thought the motion controls were, took out the $100.00 to pay for it and he crossed out $100.00 on the sticker and wrote $250.00. Man, I'd feel like I had just been suckered in that situation.
Fortunately, I've never been put in that situation as I've never came across those arcade machines for sale or another last-gen gaming system with $100.00 hardware marked up to $250.00 due to motion controls that I've wanted to purchase.
On a completely different note, I am fearful of Wii graphics. I myself, will admit freely, am an electronics junky. I have a 72" 1080p hdtv screen.
Do I need a home-theatre setup like that with 7.1 surround sound wired into my basement? In all honestly, probably not.
Does it improve my enjoyment when watching movies and playing games? I think it allows me to be immersed a tiny bit more in the game itself. To me, more real = a bit more immersed in the gameplay. I feel gameplay is most important and to a lesser extent the graphics plays a role in my immersion.
For example, I really loved Jade Empire. It had good gameplay in my opinion, nice story, beautiful looking asian-based world. Some of the deep reds contrasted with mild greens in the trees, etc. Wonderful artistic design.
Could those graphics have been generated on the previous generation? the ps1/saturn? More than likely it could but to a lesser degree or to an equal degree with 5-10? fps assuming the system had enough memory/resources for calculations and frame buffering. These changes however would in turn have effected my gameplay experience affecting my ability to immerse myself in this gaming world.
Now, many people would jump to point out, HA! Idiot! They wouldn't run the game at 5-10 fps, they would reprogram the graphics for a lower resolution or possibly have programmed the game mechanics differently to make up for the different in hardware power. Much like a hit game's handheld version versus the console version.
To me, I personally see the Wii as being like a handheld version of xbox 360/ps3 console. They'll either get ports that change the gameplay to meet the hardware requiments, like when a console game is ported to the ds/psp.
That or the port may face poor performance such as dumbed down ai and the same game without special effects. The third possiblity which is what brings about my fear is that the Wii might holdback the 360/ps3 when companies like EA decide to release their 2009 nhl game on all consoles known to mankind. (Look for NHL on stone tablet).
Programming for the lowest console in mind = all consoles become no more indepth than a Wii's hardware permits but saves companies money as they can program just 1 version. Thankfully, we know companies never love to save money at the cost of the product being delivered to the company being garbage(See article title and please sense the sarcasim).
Honestly though, one area I did disagree on was when GodisaMyth, referred to the PS3 as being manly and the 360 as being...crap? unmanly?
The only reason I state that is because the xbox 360's video card uses unified ram versus ps3s non-unified. xbox 360's video card has a higher potential fill rate. xbox 360 has I believe 16 mult-function shader piples that can do either pixelshading or vector shading. The ps3 has 8 that can do pixel and 8 that does vector.
Note, that means in an entirely pixelshaded or entirely vector shaded scene, xbox 360 would have twice the pipes available for better bandwidth. Theoritically, the xbox 360 video card can be up to three times more powerful than the ps3 under the right circumstances.
In most circumstances, its about 20% more powerful last I heard. This is based of modded xbox 360s running linux running 3d benchmark versus ps3s running linux running 3d benchmark. (Google each system before flaming please).
Of course, the PS3 does have a more powerful processor that theoritically could produce more gigaflops. However, most pc gamers will probably agree with this statement:
'The game-limiting factor on your pc is usually your video card and not your pc'.
For example, I buy a brand new computer from a store. It comes with an Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 processor and a 64-mb Intel on-board video card. What's my game-limiting factor? My crappy intel graphics chipset? or my Core 2 duo processor?
Versus a Intel Pentium 2 Duo E6400 processor with a more powerful ATI Radeon x1300 and/or an nvidia equivilent. Now what would my limiting component in games be? Still my graphics card as most games atm have 'recommended' processors of at most 2.0ghz but have 'recommended' gpu settings of 256mb dx9 and now some games, dx10 cards.
Henceforth, the xbox 360 better graphics card and in most gaming systems graphics cards are the performance limiting factor. So from this, we can conclude that the xbox 360 may possibly be an equally deserving console with the title 'Manly'. Well, 'Manly in games'. PS3, 'Many in raw gigaflops but not gpu'.
BiggerBoat @ Jun 1st 2007 5:57AM
@ Wes
From reading your post it seems obvious to me that you are a total graphics whore, which I dont mean as an insult. As a result the Wii most definately isnt for you and you should stick with PC, 360 or PS3.
What you should know though is that many, many people dont think the same way and see visuals as secondary to gameplay. From your point of view you may find this hard to understand but you and the forum antichrist(GodisaMyth) need to accept this.
It does no good to say that the masses are paying $250 bucks for a $100 bucks machine as as I think you know, it is simply not true. The performance of the Wii is widely accepted as roughly twice that of GC. Now would you refuse to pay more for a PC or any piece of electronics which offered twice the performance? Of course not. In addition you get built in wifi, 512mb flash, sensor bar, wiimote & nunchuck(which surlely cost more to produce than a single GC pad) & a game which retails at full price in Japan.
Now if you're even a slightly reasonable person you must surely be able to admit the whole 250 for a GC argument is just plain dumb.
As for your arcade example, in the UK you still find plenty of Daytona, Sega Rally 2, Time Crisis 2 etc. machines which are well over the hill in terms of tech so I dont see your point. Also N has managed to integrate the functionality of the 2 machines you've mentioned plus undoubtedly many more into one controller, dont you think that is an accomplishment worthy of some praise?
Finally regarding the point that you and many others bring up regarding visuals adding to immersion. Is this really the case? To this day I've seen nobody more immersed in a game than Tetris which lets face it, fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down. For me graphics add wow factor for the first half hour of a game until all your attention is singularily focused on the task at hand, whether that be blasting your way through an FPS or landing on a tiny platform in Pilotwings. Your brain is wired so that when it focuses on a task it diregards all superfluous data which surely includes the reflections on shiny body armour or the sweat glistening on a boxer's face.
At the end of the day what you are saying is that gaming isnt worth it without cutting edge visuals which for me is a nonsense. Maybe the extra CPU power can be used to further gameplay but I've yet to see a released PS3 or 360 game successfully integrate physice into a game which adds to the experience as much as Elebits or Power bowling from Wii Sports so until I do I'll reserve judgement.
Burnt Meatloaf @ Jun 1st 2007 6:01AM
@Wes: I remember seeing a game console at Sears about 3-4 years ago that used a motion sensor to play tennis, golf, and several other sport games. Of course, it was made by a company I'd never hears of, so of course it didn't last long.
BPM @ Jun 1st 2007 6:35AM
I wish Joystiq had an autoban system for anything someone says something really stupid.
Idiotic things like "WeeCube" disqualifies any point a person has to make (fanboyish or not). Stop being an insecure, teenage, foolish fool and call the system what it is called: Wii.
For Christ's sake, man, "wee" jokes are a year old. They were childish then, they're even more-so now. Repeating it doesn't make you look "mature" or "cool." Just childish.
Get over yourself.
So, what, if the Wii is selling more than PS3 (and is soon to outsell total 360 sales)? They are, afterall, going for different markets.
Wii aims for everyone. From casuals (Wii Sports and the WAY too many mini-game collections) to "hardcore" gamers (Zelda, Paper Mario, etc.), it has the broadest appeal. Plus, the price tag makes it more accessable to more people.
(Have I ever mentioned how I hate terms like "true gamer" and "hardcore gamer"? Mostly due to how they have no definite definition)
360 and PS3 aim only at the "hardcore" gamers. Especially those who don't mind paying more for hardware this generation than the previous generation.
I still wonder about what happened to all the Sony fans that said, pre-E³ 2006, that there would be no way Sony would charge more than the 360, because it'd be really foolish to charge that much?
Instead of wasting your time bashing another system, why not just enjoy the one you have? After all, is not the purpose of video games to play them and have fun?
Walking Contradiction @ Jun 1st 2007 8:11AM
"I wish Joystiq had an autoban system for anything someone says something really stupid."
You would have been banned a long time ago. They should ban you for crying all day.
Wes @ Jun 1st 2007 8:13AM
@BiggerBoat
I wish you'd re-read what I wrote if you have time. You state I am a graphics whore and also state that you feel I believe graphics are most important.
Early in my argument, I state that gameplay is most important and to a lesser degree graphics only because it allows me to immerse myself more in a game.
Granted, I did provide many points regarding the importance of graphics so I do see how you could have became confused on this point and I may have seemed pro-graphics. However, gameplay still remains supreme.
The points provided regarding Jade Empire were merely meant to illustrate how hardware strenght can effect the following:
A. The game mechanics
B. Graphics via fps or quality(quality possibly affecting game mechanics inturn gameplay).
Personally, as a reasonable person, I do not discount the only slightly more powerful game cube theory. It has been stated during this discussion and through many sources that Nintendo makes about $50.00 profit off a Nintendo Wii?
I haven't researched this myself but will just for argument's sake agree this is true.
So that means the Nintendo Wii + Wii Sports included is $200.00.
People have commented on the price difference between the United States Price and Japanese selling price to which the only desernable difference is that one comes without Wii Sports to determine that Wii sports costs roughly $35.00. I will downplay that estimate and say $30.00 to be on the safe side.
So $200 - $30.00 since we are talking about hardware costs = $170.00. As a reasonable person and with reasonable math skills, we can now see the difference has dropped to $70.00 between the game cube's $100.00 sale price and the Wii hardware.
So the Wii must be 170% faster? Hmm, at first glance yes, many people would assume higher price equates faster hardware. Keep in mind, please, the points you've mentioned and provided to me.
"You get built in wifi, 512mb flash, sensor bar, wiimote & nunchuck". So if we removed the 'extra' features over the gamecube to just get the price of hardware related to game performance. Sorry for a wifi adaptor won't improve fps over a gamecube game :). Let's start with some rough estimates. Please note, these estimates are more than likely wrong as I don't have specific costs of these parts.
I am going to say that most Wifi adaptors/cards for a pc cost $25.00 (source ncix.com searching for wireless g). The cheapest I could find for pc was ASUS WL-138G-V2 at $28.12 + taxes, but I am only estimating 25.00 as Nintendo probably buys them wholesale and to try to make a safe estimate. Hopefully, Biggerboat, you'll agree with this estimate for arguments sake.
So $170 - $25.00 for the built in wifi = $145.00. Now only $45.00 over the gamecube's selling price. But like you said biggerboat, you expect to pay more money for better hardware, right? So let's carry along.
Next we'll look at the sensor bar, wii mote and nunchuck. Now earlier in this thread, someone stated the wii mote costs $50.00. Another person underneath stated, yes, its expensive but only $40.00 and the nanchuck is $20.00. We'll cause I am a good sport, I will try siding cautionly in my estimate.
I'm going to estimate $35.00/$15.00 instead of the higher amounts quoted earlier in this thread and assume the sensor bars hardware is magically 'free'. So we now have $145.00 - $35.00 - $15.00 = $95.00.
But how could that be possible? $95.00? $5.00 cheaper than the Gamecube? But how could that be if its nearly twice as you've powerful ? You expect to pay more for hardware nearly twice as powerful, don't you BiggerBoat?
Ohh, but I forgot to remove the gamecube's accessories. - 10 dollars for a gamecube controller. The gamecube goes down to $90.00 verus $95.00 for the base hardware for a Wii.
Now, let's say we are going to go 'hardware' shopping Biggerbloat? alright? As a reasonable person, how much 'better' to do think the hardware I buy for $95.00 would be over the hardware bought for $90.00?
For example, what kind of performance boost would I receive? 5%? 10%? Nope, nearly 100%. I believe you stated nearly double?
However, as a reasonable person basing my opinion off (very possibly incorrect) mathematics, I cannot believe your nearly double performance claims due to common sense. Paying an extra $5.00 on hardware has never gotten me a nearly double performance boost. Ever.
Not to mention, hardware incapable of playing dvd movies? Even the ps2 can play dvd movies and I don't think anyone is considering the ps2 'next gen' cause it has the 'Eye Toy' with 'motion tracking' simulating action. Look mother, I wave my hands and the basketball goes into the hoop! :)
@Burnt Meatloaf
Hmm, we better start adding that as a next gen contender? It might be old hardware from a few years ago, but in its defense, it has next gen controls? and if 'Wii-Sports' is the only 'next-gen' game as someone earlier stated in this thread, perhaps there are '2' next gen games? =)
Just kidding of course. Old hardware on that system plus motion controls wouldn't automatically qualify those games or hardware as next-gen.