Ubisoft admits to over-porting Wii

"I wish Joystiq had an autoban system for anything someone says something really stupid."

You would have been banned a long time ago. They should ban you for crying all day.

@BiggerBoat

I wish you'd re-read what I wrote if you have time. You state I am a graphics whore and also state that you feel I believe graphics are most important.

Early in my argument, I state that gameplay is most important and to a lesser degree graphics only because it allows me to immerse myself more in a game.

Granted, I did provide many points regarding the importance of graphics so I do see how you could have became confused on this point and I may have seemed pro-graphics. However, gameplay still remains supreme.

The points provided regarding Jade Empire were merely meant to illustrate how hardware strenght can effect the following:

A. The game mechanics

B. Graphics via fps or quality(quality possibly affecting game mechanics inturn gameplay).

Personally, as a reasonable person, I do not discount the only slightly more powerful game cube theory. It has been stated during this discussion and through many sources that Nintendo makes about $50.00 profit off a Nintendo Wii?

I haven't researched this myself but will just for argument's sake agree this is true.

So that means the Nintendo Wii + Wii Sports included is $200.00.

People have commented on the price difference between the United States Price and Japanese selling price to which the only desernable difference is that one comes without Wii Sports to determine that Wii sports costs roughly $35.00. I will downplay that estimate and say $30.00 to be on the safe side.

So $200 - $30.00 since we are talking about hardware costs = $170.00. As a reasonable person and with reasonable math skills, we can now see the difference has dropped to $70.00 between the game cube's $100.00 sale price and the Wii hardware.

So the Wii must be 170% faster? Hmm, at first glance yes, many people would assume higher price equates faster hardware. Keep in mind, please, the points you've mentioned and provided to me.

"You get built in wifi, 512mb flash, sensor bar, wiimote & nunchuck". So if we removed the 'extra' features over the gamecube to just get the price of hardware related to game performance. Sorry for a wifi adaptor won't improve fps over a gamecube game :). Let's start with some rough estimates. Please note, these estimates are more than likely wrong as I don't have specific costs of these parts.

I am going to say that most Wifi adaptors/cards for a pc cost $25.00 (source ncix.com searching for wireless g). The cheapest I could find for pc was ASUS WL-138G-V2 at $28.12 + taxes, but I am only estimating 25.00 as Nintendo probably buys them wholesale and to try to make a safe estimate. Hopefully, Biggerboat, you'll agree with this estimate for arguments sake.

So $170 - $25.00 for the built in wifi = $145.00. Now only $45.00 over the gamecube's selling price. But like you said biggerboat, you expect to pay more money for better hardware, right? So let's carry along.

Next we'll look at the sensor bar, wii mote and nunchuck. Now earlier in this thread, someone stated the wii mote costs $50.00. Another person underneath stated, yes, its expensive but only $40.00 and the nanchuck is $20.00. We'll cause I am a good sport, I will try siding cautionly in my estimate.

I'm going to estimate $35.00/$15.00 instead of the higher amounts quoted earlier in this thread and assume the sensor bars hardware is magically 'free'. So we now have $145.00 - $35.00 - $15.00 = $95.00.

But how could that be possible? $95.00? $5.00 cheaper than the Gamecube? But how could that be if its nearly twice as you've powerful ? You expect to pay more for hardware nearly twice as powerful, don't you BiggerBoat?

Ohh, but I forgot to remove the gamecube's accessories. - 10 dollars for a gamecube controller. The gamecube goes down to $90.00 verus $95.00 for the base hardware for a Wii.

Now, let's say we are going to go 'hardware' shopping Biggerbloat? alright? As a reasonable person, how much 'better' to do think the hardware I buy for $95.00 would be over the hardware bought for $90.00?

For example, what kind of performance boost would I receive? 5%? 10%? Nope, nearly 100%. I believe you stated nearly double?

However, as a reasonable person basing my opinion off (very possibly incorrect) mathematics, I cannot believe your nearly double performance claims due to common sense. Paying an extra $5.00 on hardware has never gotten me a nearly double performance boost. Ever.

Not to mention, hardware incapable of playing dvd movies? Even the ps2 can play dvd movies and I don't think anyone is considering the ps2 'next gen' cause it has the 'Eye Toy' with 'motion tracking' simulating action. Look mother, I wave my hands and the basketball goes into the hoop! :)

@Burnt Meatloaf
Hmm, we better start adding that as a next gen contender? It might be old hardware from a few years ago, but in its defense, it has next gen controls? and if 'Wii-Sports' is the only 'next-gen' game as someone earlier stated in this thread, perhaps there are '2' next gen games? =)

Just kidding of course. Old hardware on that system plus motion controls wouldn't automatically qualify those games or hardware as next-gen.

Also, in my estimate, I didn't subtract for the 512mb of flash you mentioned. I think 512 mb would go for $19.95 give or take the cheapest prices 512 mb usb flash drives from ncix.com again.

Well, Farcry had great controls.. the best of any of the FPS on the Wii.. its just that the rest of the game sucked! So you can hardly blame that one on "tacked on controls".

And Rabids was great, and also one of the best reviewed and selling games on the system.

Weird thing is, all the CASUAL gamers who i know who tried Red Steel LOVED it.. they thought the controls were so much more intuitive for a beginner gamer.
(us long time gamers forget that "mouselook" has evolved over time, and when it was first introduced a lot of even hardcore gamers found it very confusing.. so imagine what its like for newbies who have to contend with dual analogues, analogue triggers, 8 buttons, zoom, etc!)

But they really kinda did BLOW their head start over EA on the Wii, it was their chance to play some real catchup.

PS/ Where are the adventure games and RTS games on the Wii? The control would be great for it!!

"forum antichrist(GodisaMyth)"

Oh, the irony of that statement. If I have a name like GodisaMyth...then logic would assume that I do not believe in any manmade God(s) past, present, or future. So, why then would I be the antichrist? I will repeat, I do NOT believe in any of that superstitious nonsense, so calling me the antichrist would be like me calling you rational.


"Idiotic things like "WeeCube" disqualifies any point a person has to make (fanboyish or not). Stop being an insecure, teenage, foolish fool and call the system what it is called: Wii."

Oh no.....sarchasm, it is for the immature and children only. Really, you dont say. I am sorry you think that sarchasm is limmited to the immature.
In my opinion, you are immature for thinking it is.

Wes,

Great posts!
Yes I could use more tactful and less abrasive and refrain from some harmless banter and sarchasm....but I choose not too.
It is more fun that way.
As for the Crap60, that comment was mostly just a little fanboy banter, but I still think that the PS3 is already showing more promise than the Trash60.
At least we can agree that the 360 and the PS3 are basically in the same ballpark. As for the Wee (oh no, look out sarchasm police, I said it again) as for the Wee, well, that joke of a machine is still in little league and is sitting on the bench.

Keep up the logic Wes,
its fun to see the pathetic counters to your arguements.

GodisaMyth

Hey is this Jeebus Crust?

Now I recognize that angry ranting tone!

Joystiq needs to get a new banstick. Their old one has holes in it.

@ Wes

What a load of pointless waffling.

No matter what sums you do based on prices you yourself admit could easily be wrong you are not going to convince me nor any sane person that console A should cost the same as console B when A offers twice the performance, wifi, flash, sensor bar, more expensive controllers, bluetooth, not to mention free online features(browser, voting, gaming etc.). It just DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.

The only way I can see your warped logic working is if you deem a company making a profit on one of its products 'not fair' or 'cheating'. N make a profit on the Wii, GC, DS and most every other platform they've launched so trying to make cost of components=RRP is completely pointless.

If you are indeed against buying anything which doesnt retail for less than cost I expect you wont be getting much enjoyment from your PS3 or 360 as pretty much every games/Blueray/HDDVD/peripheral is sold at profit.

Please consult your brain before posting next time.

@ GodisaMyth

So when you call somebody a motherf****r you actually mean the f**k mothers? Or when you dont object to someone calling you a troll that means you belive in trolls??

It's known as not taking something literally.

Jeez.

@ This Thread

Wow

GodisaMyth,
Yeah, except that isn't SARCASM (there's no "h" in that word, pal). Sarcasm is usually funny. "Wee"/"WeeCube" is just lame.

Wes:
"People have commented on the price difference between the United States Price and Japanese selling price to which the only desernable difference is that one comes without Wii Sports to determine that Wii sports costs roughly $35.00. I will downplay that estimate and say $30.00 to be on the safe side."

Objection! This argument is flawed. Direct conversions of prices are not applicable, because hardly anything in gaming is equally priced between regions. I can't find any examples right now, but games usually cost more in Japan that the US to begin with.


And quite personally, I find that trying to break down the price of Wii components to show that Nintendo makes a lot of profits on it is just silly. Reason is we really don't know how much ALL of the components cost to Nintendo. I highly doubt they make $50 profit on each Wii sold. $25 sounds more likely.

And, frankly, I really don't care how much money any company makes or loses with their products. As long as I'm enjoying the games I buy, nothing else really matters.

@BiggerBoat

What's up with the continual stream of personal insults? I mean honestly, I appealed to you as a reasonable person and you've responded calling me a 'Graphics whore' and telling me to 'consult your brain' before posting.

Geesh, I thought mathematics was a function performed by my Brain. Oh well. I'm just going to opt out of this thread after this point. You've even posted in other threads to say my posts in this thread are "poor excuses"? Its odd to see someone post in that manner.

However, in reading your rebuttal it appears that you've missed the purpose of my writings above.

In short, you were stating that the wii is nearly twice as powerful as a gc and that's why the hardware is more expensive($250.00 versus $100.00) and competely justifable.

I just removed all the 'Extras' that they've taked on to get to the base hardware costs like cpu, ram, gpu. You know, those game performance limiting hardware devices which you stated were nearly twice as good.

Your argument was 'if performance is nearly twice as good, you don't mind paying more and games on wii will look better than games on the gc'. Of course, that's not the exact words you said but words with a similar meaning.

I just merely stripped the pricing for the extra parts and compared the base hardware. Ironically, it costs the asme and with some games like Spiderman 3 on the wii looking worse than Spiderman 2 on the gamecube(imho), I've seen no evidence of this nearly double performance. Cost wise, I find it heard to believe that hardware only costing $5.00 more than the gamecube(extra's stripped) could provide 'nearly double performance' as you've stated to try to defend your console.

Never did I during this process insult you personally though. I wish you could have shown the same kindness. Ah well, alas, there are worse things you could have referred to me as someone who doesn't consult his brain before thinking and a graphics whore'.

BTW, My issue isn't with perphials being sold for profit as you've implied. Every company has to sell for some profit. That's how they stay in business.

My issue would be if someone sells 'Generic Component Cables' under the name 'Monster' for $60.00 which is effectively the same hardware as 'Belkin [generic] Component Cables' for $19.95 and tries to market it as 'The Next Generation in component cables! Brings your video to a whole new level! Nearly twice the performance of previous component cables! Buy it now! for only $60.00. What a steal.'

Fact is, consumers walk into Futureshop, Best Buy, Wal-mart or countless other retail stores and get suckered everyday. I just had seeing fellow consumers getting suckered by large greedy comporations. Especially if they imply/use false advertising.

Its like a con-man who cheats old-ladies out of money. Just general scum you wish didn't exist. The only defense against con-men though is education. Teach people about common cons and how to avoid them. Alas, you can lead a horse to water, but cannot force him to drink it.

Wes, if you can find me a generic Wii that costs far less than the official Wii, but is every bit as functional, then show me the way. :P

@BPM
Sure, if you had a gamecube. Nintendo could add you a wifi adaptor, sensor bar, 512mb of flash, a wiimote and wii nun'chuck. Nintendo could make a GC > Wii upgrade kit for 50-100 bucks.

Ah well, better to charge people for the gc hardware again, then tax on the 50-100 bucks for the extras listed above, increase the price by 50 bucks for profit, add in a free game and label it as next-gen due to the new controller.

People will pay for it. Why not?

Sure the xbox was a single threaded 700mhz intel celeron processor and their next generation console the xbox 360 is a multi-threaded(2 threads) 3x3.2ghz intel processors. = 9600mhz. Yes, 700mhz > 9600mhz is a fairly large jump and I'd consider that a new generation of technology. You know, a processor more than 12 times more powerful than its parent console if not more.

If the Wii is nearly 'double' as powerful as the gamecube which wasn't as powerful as the xbox to begin with and I believe was clocked near 300mhz like the ps2. You've reached 600mhz. Xbox speeds.

I think of it as like going to a store to pick out a new air conditioner. You can measure the power or ability to cool by looking at the BTU like 9000btu, 12000 btu etc. Air conditions for personal home use also range from about $250 up to $600 for upper end ones.

If you walked into a store and a sales person pointed you to an air conditioner for $250.00 that did 600BTU and the sales rep kept going on about how it had motion sensing. You just had to point to and it would turn on and start cooling!

The salesperson then goes on to state whereas this 'Other' one for $400.00, doesn't have motion controls. Hows its BTUs? Ohh well, 9200BTU but you really want this one here. It has motion controls.

The customer inquires further, 'Wait, $150 more and you get 15x the BTU? So 15x the cooling?'.

'Yes, but you have to use this wireless remote control, no motion sensing. You'd have to pickup the remote and start pressing buttons. This $250.00 one has motion sensing, its truely next-gen'.

'So the $250.00 one is really best? because of the motion sensing? It doesn't look better in real life or on paper looking at the statistics!'

'Ohh, I assure you. Its next-gen even if its 600 BTU. Motion sensing air conditioners are the future! It sells like hotcakes. All the sales associates will recommend this one to you!'.

'Oh, alright then. I guess I'll buy it.'

'Great!'

*10 minutes later*

'So yeah, I sold another one of those 600 BTUs again hahahaha'.

'Man, you must be raking in the commission. Good job! Thank goodness there are so many suckers in the world!'

'You're telling me. I thought nobody these days would buy a 600btu air conditioner when there are 9600btus on the market for a bit more. Thank goodness for that Motion Control marketing Hype'.

My mistake, Wes. For a second there, I mistook you for a rational gamer. Sorry about that.

@BPM
Apology accepted, BPM.

I see you too have reverted to the level of personal attacks implying I am not a rational gamer when presented with opinions with some factual basis and analogies used to put those facts into terms average non-tech speak people could understand with just one read-through.

I thought you might respond with a valid counter-rebuttal regarding the hardware facts about the 360 and hardware estimations posted above about the Wii/Gamecube. I thought the counter-rebuttal might have been about the hardware pricing arguments.

Sadly, no. Just another personal attack against me similar to BiggerBoat. Oh well, its my own fault for raising my hopes of friendly open-discussion here once again.

Sincerely,
A disappointed Joystiq reader.

@ Wes

Here aere a few extracts from your posts, after reading I hope you begin to realise just how misguided your half baked theories are.

1)I just merely stripped the pricing for the extra parts and compared the base hardware. Ironically, it costs the same and with some games like Spiderman 3 on the wii looking worse than Spiderman 2 on the gamecube(imho), I've seen no evidence of this nearly double performance.

-----> So you judge the potential performance of every console after 6 months? I mean you even use Spiderman 3 as an example. A developer could put out pong with frame rate issues on the PS3, does that mean that the PS3's performance should be criticised or maybe the developer for putting out lazy, badly coded crap? Look at Galaxy or MP3 if you want evidence of improved visuals over the GC. And how can the base hardware cost the same? There's more RAM, and the CPU & GPU are faster and more efficient!

2)Sure, if you had a gamecube. Nintendo could add you a wifi adaptor, sensor bar, 512mb of flash, a wiimote and wii nun'chuck. Nintendo could make a GC > Wii upgrade kit for 50-100 bucks.

--------->Are you being serious? For starters the GC didnt support flash nor have an input for a sensor bar, do you want people to get their screwdrivers out and dismantle the thing? Not to mention the small detail of the GPU,CPU & RAM components being different from the GC's, that sure is a million doller idea you got there genius. Just for kicks let us take your upper limit for this 'upgrade kit' at 100 bucks (it'll cost you this for the 360 wifi adapter alone) That means a total of 200 for GC plus kit. A Wii costs 50 bucks more and in addition you get a larger capacity disc drive, bluetooth, upgradeable firmware, a free game, compact size etc. Not a bad deal if you ask anybody with more than a gram of sense.

3)If the Wii is nearly 'double' as powerful as the gamecube which wasn't as powerful as the xbox to begin with and I believe was clocked near 300mhz like the ps2. You've reached 600mhz. Xbox speeds.

----------------->You honestly just dont have a clue do you? The performance of a CPU isnt decided solely on its clockspeed. The architecture of the GC CPU was much more efficient that Xbox's and a lot believe it was the equal. Now the Wii's CPU is both faster and more efficient giving it a significant advantage over both the GC and Xbox.

4)'So the $250.00 one is really best? because of the motion sensing? It doesn't look better in real life or on paper looking at the statistics!

-------------> So looking at the specs of the GC and Wii you see no difference??? Piece of advice, if you ever go PC shopping take an informed person with you as not being able to tell the difference between different numbers may hinder your purchase.

These are just a few illogical points from many in your posts, I hope you take reality into account before you post your next batch of drivel.