European Commisioner: MS has a week to explain Xbox 360 scratching disc issue

Maybe I'm one of the lucky ones, but I own two 360's use them constantly and have never had a disc get scratched. Maybe these people are the ones flipping it while a disc is in to see the light flip over.

Microsoft: No comment.

This problem is bugging the heck of me, everytime I turn on a game on the xbox I get the ¨error: cant read disc¨ problem. Usually around 5 mins after I started the game... real friggign annoying

I love the consumer populism of the European Commission.

maybe the top and the bottom of the drive are too close together and the cd gets caught next to it?

One can only wonder if this were Sony....the backlash that would ensue. I am not saying that Microsoft will not catch any heat from this, but if it were Sony that had the 40%+ RROD failure rate, they would be catching so much crap that they would look like they just came from the sewer.

That being said......
"let the hate flow thru you"

My brothers 360 has this problem, it couldn't be moved at all while there was a disk inside or it would scratch. He was playing Call of Duty 2 one day and moved the 360 over to get it off of his controller cord, he heard a sharp scouring sound. He opened the tray and there were two perfect rings on the disk. He couldnt play past a certain point in the single player game, so he only plays online.

Its also happened to a friend of mine, I dont know the cirmcumstances of his situation, but he has showed me the now ruined copy of Oblivion he now owns.

I just sent my 360 in for this reason today. Silly thing ate my copies of Dead Rising, Call of Duty 2, and Oblivion.

Well, nothing is going to come of it, MS are experts at throwing crap producst at customers and getting away with it.
And it does work - if MS does win this round of the console battle, it will be because of their price-gouging on peripherals and dirty quality. All the bad publicity on the PS3 price, "forcing Blu-ray" on customers, obscures the fact that Blu-Ray cost-to-company is just USD90-100 more than DVD. The remaining difference is because of better quality, free multiplayer and not hammering the customer on everything from hard discs to wifi. Thats why the PS3 will always face a USD100 cost difference over 360.

this is stupid. anyone should know that you can't tip over ANY kind of CD playing device while it's running. I've had the same thing happen with laptops, especially.

i will admit that many xboxes cause more damage than some other disc based media when it's done, but that is really a random thing since it just has to do with their drive supplier. And that doesn't change the fact that you can't tilt something with a moving disc.

HAHAHAHA!!

Europe...

I just called them today to get my 360 serviced since it decided to red-ring last night. I mentioned as a seperate issue how it had eaten two discs in the weeks prior to it bricking, and no I wasn't moving it, and if they could look at that too.

The line of shit she gave me that I'm not allowed to do while the XBox is on was ridiciulous. I can't believe they can tell me with a straight face that the problem is that I might have touched the console when it's on rather than that the peice of shit can't be looked at funny while it's on or it will chew up my disc.

I bought my XBox like 4 months ago too, so it's not just a problem with the older ones.

@GodisaMyth

40%+!?!?!?
You just pulled that figure out of your ass!!
I hate when people do things like that.. it enrages me...

lol, i'll go eat my dinner now.
But seriously, why say crap like that? I've got 2 360s and have had no problems with either, and one is a launch console.

Run the system horizontally. Worked for me. Oh, and rfom, is MS does win, it will be because of the games. Enjoy playing rfom, rfom!

The 360 has some fantastic games on it, and there are only going to be more over the next few months.

However, it is the most poorly designed console I've ever seen. I opened one up recently and this thing is shoddy. Which surprises me because the Xbox 1 was a very well crafted machine. Everyone is at risk of having a 360 fail even under the best conditions (I've gone through two). I think if my warranty ever expired...I'd probably not get a new one. By then, surely the ps3 would have good enough games to justify the switch.

Make sure to run it in horizontal mode though...less vibration that way.

@Alex K.

You mean like CD Walkmans?

"14. Run the system horizontally. Worked for me. Oh, and rfom, is MS does win, it will be because of the games. Enjoy playing rfom, rfom!

Posted at 12:43PM on Jun 2nd 2007 by AirIntake"

No, if they win, its because of the price, the main complain I have seen about he ps3 is the price, not the games, people have just become too embarrased to show that they actually want a ps3 and just complain about the lack of games, when their main problem is not having enough money to afford one (even when I offered a few friends to lend them money -_-)

Lesbian Ham... great name by the way

You are right. I do not know the actual failure rate of the RROD60, only Microsoft knows the real rate. Since they refuse to tell anyone the actual failure rate other than it is a "moving target" and it is "within industry norms" leads me to believe that the actual defect rate must be much, much higher.

I have a friend who is the Store Director at Toysrus and I know a couple other people from Best Buy and GameStop and they tell me that they get back more RROD60's than they ever did from the original PSX or PS2.

My guess for the actual failure is between 20-40%+ from all of the posts over the past year and a half stating multiple system failures 3+ from many different people. I mean c'mon even the bloggers on this site and many others have all had the RROD.

Until Microcrap grows some balls and tells us what they really know....then I will make my own assumptions on their poorly built machine that has been coddled together with parts of the lowest possible quality so thay Microcrap can start to dig out of that 5 Billion+ hole that they are in.

@Noshino

That may be true for a lot of people. I, however, have plenty of cash to spend on a PS3, and before I knew more about it, planned on buying one. But lack of something to play on it has kept it out of my house so far. Same goes for the Wii for me actually. I could buy all three if they had games I wanted to play on them.

To anyone who thinks this is stupid - remember, this is a game console. Its a toy, not a high end PC or some kind of sensitive piece of electronics, so kids play with these things. Not everyone set it up in in nice entertainment center; kids will throw them on there bedroom floors.

If the 360 must remain ABSOLUTELY STILL while turned on there's a problem. The least MS should do is put a giant warning on the box or the instructions: that if you EVEN TOUCH this unit while playing, you $60 game is a coaster.

GodisaMyth: Pulling numbers out of your ass and passing them as fact still doesn't work, whether you like MS or not. :P

My 360 has scratched games without me ever moving it, and it makes that terrible disc spinning sound when you go back to the dashboard.

"22. GodisaMyth: Pulling numbers out of your ass and passing them as fact still doesn't work, whether you like MS or not. :P"

Nor does putting words in a post that I did not say. Show me where I said that these failure rates were fact. Yeah, I thought so assclown. Try reading something and actually comprehending it before you comment on it.

alright how dumb is female dog. Everyone knows that if its standing up and you try to flip it it will scratch because of the fucking laser. Who does this lady think she is you have 1week until i bitch again again and again just like this Website all you guys do is bitch about every little small fucking thing you guys remind me of IGN.

@Nathan M:
"Pulling numbers out of your ass and passing them as fact still doesn't work, whether you like MS or not. :P"
I dunno, seems to work for industry analysts... :P

I love my 360 and I've had mine since November 2006. I've always gotten some freezing and the stupid "your disc may be dirty" error, and more recently it has been recognizing games as DVDs and gives me message on a white screen saying I need to put the game into a 360 console. My fucking 360 is telling me my 360 game is not in it!!! Microsoft needs to get their shit intact.

This article has the scoop on what's going on.

http://www.hardware.info/en-US/articles/amdnY2pxZGOa/Scratching_Xbox_360/2

It comes down to small cushions that need to be placed near the lens.

"I have a friend who is the Store Director at Toysrus and I know a couple other people..."

Oh yeah? I know LOTS of people, not just a couple.

Well I have a cousin who has an uncle that has a friend who is the store manager at best buy, and he told me that both playstations were the worst built consoles in the galaxy.
I also know (literally) tons of people who have friends that work at gamestop, ebgames, and gamecrazy, who told me that they had hundreds of playstations returned everyday for 15 years straight.

So I've come to my own assumptions that every single playstation (1&2) is garbage.

You can't argue otherwise, because sony never gave official numbers on defective playstations.

mines a launch system, play it almost every day. not one problem since I bought it. I keep it horizontal, and I'm not a fucking tard so I don't move it while it's on. It's not that hard people, just treat it lik a 400$ piece of equipment. ugh. It's annoying to have to say this shit over and over, some people don't get it.

Remember that video of the Finnish kid who turned his console on its side while it was playing and than the people broadcasting it threatened to sue Microsoft. I think that is the problem here. Microsoft is using CD Drives that do not have the "shock-absorber" functionality of many modern CD Drives.

In the DVD drive there's an assembly that lifts up to the base of the disc as the tray brings it in. This assembly has the read head and the main motor, which has a metal disc on it. Once it reaches the DVD disc a separate plastic disc at the top of the unit magnetically "locks" onto the top of the motor and this is what holds the disc in place. When you eject the disc the motor assembly goes back down, breaking the magnetic seal. This is how any tray-loading CD or DVD works, from a PC to a PS2. Slot-loading things, like the Wii or PS3 are very similar as they also have the magnetic locking disc.

I've run DVD players and yes even the XBox 360 with the drive assembly completely open. The disc spins so fast it's scary, and this is coming from a guy who Dremels without safety goggles. If the disc has a bump or the "locking disc" with the magnet isn't locked on correctly the disc will indeed tilt and scratch itself. Not always on the laser head (which is a plastic ball and thus not very destructive) but other sharp edges of the read head as well. Combined with the high speed it can scratch easily.

As for overheating, I would say it's the very passive way the cooling on the 360 is done. Heatsinks on the GPU and CPU and 2 fans at the back of the case. It'd almost be like running your PC with the rear case fan but nothing on the CPU or video card.

Though I love my Xbox that thing is a piece of CRAP...I mean there are reasons why...JUST HEAR ME OUT GUYS AND TELL ME IF YOU DISAGREE...(Without being jerks)LOL...The 360 has been in developement since maybe late 2003 so the technology used is not up to par with the PS3's because one it released way to early.. I know people say there was only a year difference but ALLOT can change in a year..Think about it CELL PHONES are all thin now, digital distribution is at an all time high, and we have a new HD format(just for example)...So I don;t think MS built a piece of trash on purpose they just tried to put to much new tech with old tech cus thats all they had at the time..Because you gotta remember they were still losing money on every system...

I can't believe how many people move their consoles while its on, why? what could you possibly need to move it for that is soo important you can't knock off the console first? And another thing I don't get it why people decide to put their consoles vertically, it looks stupid and its not going to do anything positive, the 360, like 90% of electrical products is designed to be horizontal and not moved while on. The exception to the not moving rule is the Walkman, its designed for it, theres no need to make a moveable console

Lord Chako,

Well, I've worked in an independant videogame retailer for about 4 years now. We must've sold over 2,000 PS2's and about 500 360's while I've worked there. I'd say we've had at least 150 360's returned, whereas we've probably had about 50 PS2s, if that.

Nice exaggerations by the way, though I'm sure tales of "hundreds of playstations returned everyday for 15 years straight." would have made it to the mainstream media at some point, don't you think?

My PS2 and my brothers PS3 dont pitch a fit if they are moved while the disk is spinning, and the PS3 Has a friggen blu-ray player in it. WHY cant a 360 have a stable functioning drive when a 7 year old PS2 can.

My brother didnt even move the thing much, it was sitting on a cord, and he basically lifted it less than an inch to get the cord from underneath. If friggen 7 and 8 year old dvd players can manage, i think a 6mth old 360 should be able to as well.

thats definitely one thing great about the EU compared to the business friendly US, they don't take crap from big corporations and are consumer friendly.

"I can't believe how many people move their consoles while its on, why?...."

While I agree that there is a certain responsibility of the customer to keep the console still, there is also a middle-ground that Microsoft should be able to reach to meet the consumer at a logical level of dependability. My friend knocked his over while we were playing; it destroyed his Rainbow Six disc. Understandable. But many people are simply having problems with it destroying disks, untouched or even little bumps like the guy whose cord was under the corner. It's just not very well built for real-world situations, and that's what's being inquired about by this European commission.

It's a device used for entertainment and games, which means younger excitable people will be using it. It should be more robust.

Why is it people act like Microsoft is the hero and the gamers are the idiots all the time? I always see posts from people saying "Red ring of death? So what... MS sent me a box and a new console. Problem solved!" and they don't even realize that their own statement indicates that MS is building a low-qualiy product, it was just handled so smoothly they don't notice.

Just the fact that there is a well-known catchphrase and a subsequent acronym for "Red Ring of Death" should tell you it's a real problem. There is nothing like this level of failure for the Wii or the PS3 that I've heard of, and I check all of these sites regularly.

If the thing weren't the best game console right now, I wouldn't bother with it, but it's like the girlfriend you had that you would argue with all the time, but the physical side was so great you put up with the dumb antics. Why, Microsoft, Why? Why can't I quit you!?!

"34. I can't believe how many people move their consoles while its on, why? what could you possibly need to move it for that is soo important you can't knock off the console first?"

this is a case of consoles that do this while sitting still, not people moving them while on.

I remember reading an in depth look into this and it turned out it was caused by the lack of the felt pads that are supposed to surround the DVD drive lens. It's not really MS's fault since they buy their drives from 3 different companies, and it was a certain drive that had a bad batch, but they really should look to that company to pay for a recall.

as for people that scratch their discs while moving the system while it's running, they are dumb and deserve what they get.

Fuck that. I went through 5 360's in a matter of months. The first won wouldn't play any games. The second one would lock up within 10 minutes of turning it on. The third destroyed Rainbow Six and Gears AFTER I built a small perfectly level ventilated table to place it on. Fourth red ringed on me. The fifth started having the same lock up problems as the second and I finally took that one back and got my money back for it. I'll buy one when the stop building shitty ones. This coming from someone who reads 360 fanboy every day. :\ AND I feel fucked with a zune. Its a peice of garbage. I'm on my fourth Zune. Microsoft needs to fix their hardware game and fast.

one*

Too busy watching the cpu monitor.

.... Wow is this all Europeans have to do? With there 10% unemployment rates and failing socialist economies.... Now they sit around and complain about private businesses. Get a life if you don't like the product don't buy it. morons....

@8 "Stenz"
you're either REALLY stupid, REALLY full of shit, or both. i'm leaning towards both. and i REALLY hope you are being sarcastic, cause you look like a dumbass on here saying something like that.

Heh, i wish the US government did this for us

It would really be a stumbling block for winning the generation for MS if the EU took legal action against the 360, although that might further cripple the 360's library (it already lacks solid Japanese support, if the Europeans were turned against it as well, the currently attractive, varied library of the 360 might sadly dry up quick to a bunch of American dominated titles)

@ capitalist cowboy
Here: http://www.cpusa.org

That'll set you straight

But i doubt anything will come of this. The EU has had it out for Microsoft for a quite some time

I find it amusing that the Xbox 360 cannot even do 90. Surely that's false advertising?

This video shows that the version of the TSST DVD player used in Xbob 360 is missing rubber pads that were meant to prevent the scratching.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlQYkaXv8RU

@43 MrKhan

You are a moron. This is the reason European countries average around 2trillion GDP a year because thier economies suck. They could never keep up with our capitalist free market which produces around 12 trillion gdp annually. Its not the goverments job to regulate the quality of products. Goverment regulation, socialism, capitalism, chokes any potential of innovation. R&D in private sectors produced 99% of video game technology today. SO you can say that without capitalism you wouldn't have video games.

@45:

It is the governments job to enforce the law; Xbob 360 is not fulfilling their warranty when they refuse to repair clearly defective products.

On top of that, many EU countries have a FIVE year automatic warranty, which requires manufacturers to replace any product that fails within five years of purchase due to a defective design. The Xbob 360 would fall under this rule, regardless of what MS's warranty is.

I don't understand how anyone can defend MS on this; we all have CD players, DVD players, laptops, and other game systems. They don't scratch the hell out of the discs. If this was the Hard DRive failing, I might be more understanding. But how can you say that the system is being abused when the DVD scratches, but the hard drive (which spins faster, and closer) is fine?!?!

@ 47

I'm not defending M$. I am saying that EU regulations is what keeps their economies from flourishing. They should let the natural effects of supply demand determine what sales and what doesn't. I also think they should be worrying about 100 other things then what M$ is selling.

@48:

That's a pretty tired excuse. "Don't enforce the law on me, because there is worse law breakers than me!" We have the same things here in the USA. FDA(Food & Drug Admin), FTC(Federal Trade Commission), NTSB(Nation Transportation Safety Board), NHTSB(National Highway Traffic Safety Board) and state attorneys general will often take action against companies which are screwing consumers.

Markets only work when everyone is fully & equally informed. The EU rules say that a manufacturer can not cut corners and create a substandard product that will fail either within, or after, the warranty period and refuse not to fix it. They do not think the greater population should have to learn that MS is a crook before they stop buying MS products. Instead, they say that MS (and everybody else) had better sell decent products.

That doesn't hurt the economy; it helps it by ensuring that economic activity is spent on goods that will have a longer lifetime, and that consumers can buy without having to fear for basic product reliability.