Anecdotal: Microsoft low on Xbox 360 coffins
For the most part, we've given up on reporting every single time one of our colleagues in the gaming press has an Xbox 360 die on them. Frankly, we'd be writing a piece every couple weeks. A brilliant recent example was the Weekly Geek Show's Xbox 360, which we covered, died again in late May. Exactly one month and six days after being "repaired." But, like Peter Moore asked of all of us, we shouldn't focus on the failure rate of Xbox 360s, but on the service in repairing them. And so, we have the story of Officer Craig Ravitch of the New York Police Department.
Officer Ravitch discovered last Friday that his Xbox 360 died on him in a classic New York "You gotta' be frickin' kidding me!" moment. He loves his Xbox 360, it's his "favorite system," but the "constant breaking down is amazing" to him. He called Microsoft, as he's done three times before. This next console will be his fourth since the 360 launch. He bought the $60 two-year warranty after his last failure and also received a 50% repair discount after arguing the last time. Microsoft support told him he'd have his box by Tuesday. After not receiving a confirmation that this Xbox 360 coffin was sent (which he received the last time he did this), he decided to call support again. They informed him his box wasn't sent because "the service department is running very low on boxes, so it will take a little longer than expected to get that box" out to him. Ravitch was shocked. Is Microsoft getting back so many defective systems that they don't have a fresh supply of coffins anymore?
We spoke with Officer Ravitch, who has a 26,000 point Gamerscore and buys about four games a month, and he told us, "As a consumer, I'm extremely, extremely disappointed with the way these consoles are dying. I don't have small children, I'm married, I get my three hours of gaming in when I can." He points out that the time he's lost in the back and fourth transit of his Xbox 360 has cost him three months of Xbox Live and he's thankful that he bought the warranty last time around, despite it being an unnecessary expense. Ravitch was mostly concerned that Microsoft is running low on coffins and now his repair has been delayed by a full week. Ravitch says, "I hate to badmouth the 360, its one of my favorite systems, but this burns me."
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Knuckles Dawson @ Jun 6th 2007 12:47PM
I've gotten at least one Achievement every calendar day since launch and I'm still on my original Xbox 360.
mheat2k6 @ Jun 6th 2007 2:55PM
Round of applause to you and your achievements sir. You just wait and see....go ahead...keep playing....
oldest gamer @ Jun 6th 2007 3:38PM
This is confusing. Are we consumers expected to buy a piece of crap console because we can get it replaced as many times as we want for a small fee? How about making a better console?
Biphster @ Jun 6th 2007 4:14PM
That PS3 price isn't so bad in the long run. ;) How many 360's will the average joe go through in 10 years? (jk)
HotShotX @ Jun 6th 2007 4:24PM
You know, when you take into account all the hassle, shipping, and repair fees, the 360 is more expensive than the PS3.
And I still want one, but damn you Microsoft, you need to make a better console than the piece of shit you can hardly keep from melting down on itself.
Get your act together, or there's a class-action lawsuit in your future (God I hope so).
In fact, YEAH! Class Action Lawsuit, wasn't that what got Sony to do free repairs, regardless of warranty, considering a LOT of PS2s were plagued with Disc Read Errors? Look it up, it's time we banded together and stick it to Microsoft, hard.
~HotShotX
Matt B @ Jun 6th 2007 4:24PM
This is one of the deciding factors to buy a PS3 even though a few friends have a 360. Money well spent.
Viridium @ Jun 6th 2007 4:25PM
I play with a core group of five friends inclusive. Three have launch boxes, two are from Dec 05. Two launch and one Dec unit have failed. The Dec unit died last week, and is being put through under the credit card extended warranty.
Mine launch unit died in Dec 06. (It is kept in our cool dry basement, completely open and only adult operated). It was after the 1 year warranty, but was repaired for free by Microsoft as a good will gesture since it was a launch unit. The refurb replacement came with a 1 year warranty to January 2008. If it doesn't die before then, I'll call and get an extended warranty - otherwise, I'll let its replacement ride out its 1 year warranty.
OrganicShadow @ Jun 6th 2007 4:28PM
I'm all for good customer service, and taking care of your customers after they buy into your products/services, but this is just ridiculous.
If the Xbox division was taking this widespread failure rate seriously,(and don't even try and soften that statement. how many PS3 and Wii failure articles are popping up? next to none)they would either fix the problem that's causing these problems once and for all or they would at least set up with 3rd party companies like Dell or BestBuy to be a "depot" of sorts for the systems. It would save a lot of hassle and money trying to ask for coffins, send it back, pay them money, wait for it to get back etc.
Just drop it off at (insert retail outlet that set up deal with M$), and wait for them to call you up when it's back and ready to go. Everyone else living in the middle of the woods can just send it like normal.
Ryan LN @ Jun 6th 2007 4:33PM
My 360 is a year or so old and while I've had more disk read errors than I care to admit, I consider myself pretty lucky. However, the failure rate does concern me and I hate the fact that every time I fire the damn thing up I'm thinking "is this the day?" If the thing didn't have the most elegant online interface in the business (and wasn't first to market) I'd probably have invested in a PS3 earlier in its stead. Although I like my Wii alot and do see a PS3 in my future, the 360 multiplayer experience is what gaming is all about and what I am most enjoying about gaming right now. I can't stand the fact that Microsoft has made me and millions of others their bitch, but sometimes you gotta call a spade a spade.
Game Artist @ Jun 6th 2007 4:35PM
I love my 360, but I hate the reliability. I had it go down once and it took 3 weeks to get it back. Im afraid it will die again. I just with MS would pull units that get repaired more than once and replace them with new units. I think part of the problem is a whole cycle of lemons in the repair que. You get a box with a problem. Its repaired, but get that box or another with the same flaws that just cause it to break again.
Dante @ Jun 6th 2007 4:35PM
I must be in the minority I guess. I've had my 360 just over 15 months now and not one problem. I use it all the time and watch HD DVD movies on it as well all the time. I also have about ten other friends locally that own 360's and not one person has had a problem yet.
Matt @ Jun 6th 2007 4:35PM
I have 2 360s, both played heavily. 0 problems. Oh and #2, you dolt, #1 is a writer for xbox360fanboy.com
Alex @ Jun 6th 2007 4:36PM
Jesus, no wonder so many 360 consoles are sitting on shelves. No one wants to risk spending hundreds of dollars to repair an inherently faulty console.
Joshua @ Jun 6th 2007 4:41PM
I'm hoping the 65 nm refresh at the end of the year will help alleviate some of these problems. With that and the price drop, I'll be buying a 360 later this year.
However, if things don't turn out so well, I'll just put the money toward other, non-Microsoft related things.
chalito @ Jun 6th 2007 4:42PM
The worst of all is that from what I'm reading in the article and comments, many people are buying extended warranty because of 360's problems... so what's the lesson here? 360 users should be considering class action suit seriously, and AVOID extended warranties. Instead, insist in getting the console repaired for free??
An extended warranty is ok when you really want to be safe with a well-crafted piece of equipement that your kids might break or something like that, but it's a no-no when the equipment problems are due to faulty design! otherwise you're encouraging MS to keep building melting boxes, since it gets them extra profits in 'extended warranty' sales! (I highly doubt it costs 60 bucks to get the 360 back in shape after a RROD, at least for them).
Dirk Dorkelson @ Jun 6th 2007 4:46PM
Re: missed Xbox Live time. When my (launch) console got repaired (for the first time) back in April, they packed in a prepaid 1 month card for Xbox Live Gold, to make up for the gaming time I missed. And while I still missed out on the Old Spice Rewards Challenge (I was a couple hundred points away when my machine broke), I still thought it was a nice gesture. All in all, my 360 was down for three weeks. And I got the original unit back so that I didn't have to deal with any DRM shenanigans. It went about as well as it could have. In the interim, I played Beyond Good & Evil on my Xbox and FFVII on my PS2.
Yaktastic @ Jun 6th 2007 4:49PM
I wonder if they are just trying to hold out till the 65 nm chipset and hope for (or be working on) better reliability.
but running out of cardboard replacement stockpile is a certainly a sign of considerably worse reliability than they tested for (if they even did so).
or who knows, maybe there was a breakdown at the cardboard plant and this is just a supply chain stockout. (that in itself is also a bad thing, i am not trying to absolve MS of anything).
this reliabilty issue is high on my list for why i decided not to get a 360.
cartman80 @ Jun 6th 2007 4:50PM
If all water on earth started tasting like old diapers tomorrow, we'd still drink it cause we'd have no choice, drink or die.
I guess some people just HAVE to play Halo 3, and the .... 3? 5? other exclusives, otherwise they'd die.
So when you have loyal customers like that, who can't just NOT buy it, why spend money on fixing it?
This sounds like a flame, but I swear it's not, I just don't get people who KNOW these things break, buy them anyway, and then COMPLAIN when they DO break.
I'd like an Xbox360 too, I just won't buy one until they fix the problems. I think I'll live without one a little longer...somehow....
chris furniss @ Jun 6th 2007 4:50PM
Not only did Caspian's unit die (from The Weekly Geek) but now mine has as well.
I called the repair center and talked to one of the two guys who handle repairs for the media and he confirmed to me that yes, they basically throw your broken unit on a pile to be fixed, and ship you out a unit from another pile of refurbs. He assured me that they use brand new parts, but still. THERE'S A REASON THERE'S SUCH A HIGH FAILURE RATE. JUST GIVE US NEW UNITS.
Jacki Boi @ Jun 6th 2007 4:51PM
Im sure i have one or six coffins to spare. Been through 4 console and got one free (thanks MS..ebay!)
Relativiox @ Jun 6th 2007 4:52PM
I just don't see this happening anywhere I look. I have a 360, I got mine from the Mountain Dew giveaway so I had it 3 days before it was released. It is the exact same console that I use now. I play it every day for at least 3 hrs or more. People just need to be not stupid and take care of their consoles.
rokerovakero @ Jun 6th 2007 4:54PM
But, after you got your console back from the repair shop, were you happy? You bet.
That's The Microsoft Experience NO ONE CAN TAKE AWAY FROM YOU. TELL YOUR PEERS ABOUT HOW YOU FELT WHEN YOUR CONSOLE WAS LIKE BRAND NEW!
Pete @ Jun 6th 2007 4:55PM
"Jesus, no wonder so many 360 consoles are sitting on shelves."
There are more PS3s on store shelves than 360s these days from what I have seen in the Atlanta area. I have actually been really surprised at the lack of 360s on shelves lately.
Jacki Boi @ Jun 6th 2007 4:56PM
@:Relativiox
unfortunetly we can't if they come broken.
Iv had two(out of 4) which have scratched my disks, and when i phone up MS they tell me that the console shud be lying down...then the second time they told me it should be standing up...GET UR ACT TOGETHER MS.
Tangled Spider @ Jun 6th 2007 4:59PM
What gets me is that it seems you either have no problems or you're sending your 360 for repairs every few months!
I have no idea why this is but myself and other friends have never had problems and yet other friends have had to send their console back multiple times now.
Are some people just jinxed?
Darren.
twism @ Jun 6th 2007 5:01PM
Mine just died on June 3, 2007. It just froze up and died. I tried to reboot it but it froze again, then the Red Ring of Death popped up. SNAP!!! My warranty expired and I am pissed. I loved my original XBox and that one was fine. I'm going to get another one soon and this time I will get the extended 2 year warranty through the retailer.
P.S. I sold my broken unit on eBay for $70.00 (Xbox 360 Only) and the Power Brick for $30.00. I kept the Hard Drive.
I thought this stuff only happened to people who didn't care of their stuff. I took care of my XBOX 360 and it died and I hardly played with it.
Aex @ Jun 6th 2007 5:02PM
My Xbox 360 just crapped out this weekend. And not in the good RROD way. You know, the way you know for certain. Instead, it just freezes 5 minutes into everything I do, and not ALL the time, just most of the time. Sometimes It'll happen straight for an hour, others I'll get 1 good run and it'll work just fine til I turn it off or change games. :( I called up MS, and soon I'll be sending mine back for repair. They are very friendly at least, it is just a shame my unit is dying.
luxera @ Jun 6th 2007 5:02PM
First time i had to send my 360 in for repairs it took about a week total to send it off and get it back. I was happy. This time it has been 6 days since i called and i dont even have a box. Now i know why. Pissed...
I dont own a PS3, but in order to make my XBOX 360 have the same features:
$400 Systems
$100 for Wireless
$200 for High Def DVD
$140 just to keep it working.
= $840 total
werehare @ Jun 6th 2007 5:02PM
Unbelievable that a company can put out a product that is so faulty and yet have so many mindless followers accept the that fact. With people like that, no wonder Bush got in a 2nd time. ;)
Player1 @ Jun 6th 2007 5:03PM
I'm really sick of the "take care of your consoles" people. I mine dusted, on an open air rack and don't abuse it any way. No one else touches it. I'm on number three. Oddly, none of my other consoles have had any problems.
So am I supposed to create an anti-static room with air showers on exit and entry with a independent electical circuit with voltage regulation and monitored temperature and humidity levels?
Surely your day will come. Everyone who says they never had problems ends up getting it the worst. You should just consider yourself lucky and leave it at that.
bl13 @ Jun 6th 2007 5:03PM
@21, gotta love the "everyone with a broken 360 is a dumbass" argument. Wonder where you were when people were complaining about PS2 DRE's.
@25, probably because as #19 claimed, they ship you refurbished consoles as replacements.
Kompressor @ Jun 6th 2007 5:05PM
I agree with #25, it seems like when your unlucky your extremely unlucky. obviously, microsoft, just like most all companies who produce hardware probably are not sending brand new systems to people who warranty broken 360's, I wonder if there is a deeper problem to broken 360's that isn't caught during referb testing
either way I still have yet to hear of a friend with a broken 360, my 3 launch 360's (2 given as gifts) are still going 100%
i'm suprised a troll hasn't commented saying hes on his 14th 360 yet
AirIntake @ Jun 6th 2007 5:06PM
Most people don't care about crap electronics. It really shows. Look at cell phones these days. They're practically designed to break after a year. I went through 3 Motorola V262s in a year. They would just randomly power down or restart. Same with iPods, those things break down all the time. But you know what? People love what cell phones and iPods do for them, and happily put up with the failure rate. Is it right? No. But it does happen, and I don't really see it changing.
Devre @ Jun 6th 2007 5:07PM
With the constant failures, an online service you have to pay for and no Wi-Fi, the price difference between a 360 and a PS3 hardly matters, eh?
Brent @ Jun 6th 2007 5:10PM
@Relativiox
I didn't believe it either. How could Microsoft make such a crappy console?", I thought. "People just don't take care of their 360's."
WRONG!
I've treated my 360 like a delicate flower...it had never been mistreated in any way. One day, I'm playing some Crackdown and all of the sudden, the damn thing freezes. Well, I reboot and it doesn't get past the splash screen. I try again and again to no avail. I remove the hard drive, unplug it, etc, etc and nothing. Then I see the dreaded red ring of death. By the way, my PS3 has run perfectly since day 1. Reliability is a HUGE problem with the 360. Just wait. It will happen to you too.
Kojo62 @ Jun 6th 2007 5:14PM
@18
When I bought my console last December, I had no idea about this failure rate. MS obviously made an effort to hide the facts on this issue up to now. But you can't contain something like this forever, if there really is an issue.
@21
My buddy and I are both adult working computer professionals, who treat all our electronics with the utmost care. Our 360s are situated in open, well ventilated spaces, receive only casual adult gaming usage hours, and are not abused in any way.
Yet, our systems, both purchased brand new in December from the same store within the same week, BOTH failed in May within 2 weeks of each other. That defies the odds.
Meanwhile, our 5 year-old original Xboxes continue to hum along without issue all this time under the same conditions.
When your new product fails to outlive your old product with this level of regularity, it's time to consider that there IS a manufacturing problem at work here with the 360. It is not just an issue of "stupid" users being at fault.
Reverend Slim @ Jun 6th 2007 5:14PM
I feel the guy's pain. My 8th Xbox 360 since launch arrives Friday. I love it when it works, but this is the first console ever that I've had to buy a backup unit just so I didn't have to go without when they're repairing one. That's why I have a Premium and a Core.
And don't even get me started on their support. It took them from October 15, 2006 to January 14, 2007 to get me a working console the last time I had to send one in, having received one dead refurb, one bricked by the Fall update, then having had my returned console lost for over a month.
Again, I love the 360, and it's the best gaming experience out there right now. They just need to make the things more reliable.
Relativiox @ Jun 6th 2007 5:14PM
@31 I have a PS2 /still/ and it's never had any problems.
And for all the "bad karma" people, I wonder how in the world that one person could have so much bad luck with different consoles..... Could it be the person?
Come on, I have a friend to tests these things for a living. He stuck one in a box and ran it for an hour and a half straight. Final ambient temp in the box was 68 Celsius (154.4 Fahrenheit) when the thing finally died.
Kojo62 @ Jun 6th 2007 5:15PM
My best friend & I both bought new 360s last December from the same store within the same week, only to have them BOTH succumb to the Red Ring Reaper in May, only 5 months later, within 2 weeks of each other. That defies any "normal" odds you can calculate.
Something is seriously wrong with Microsoft's 360 manufacturing process, and they need to own up to having an issue in this area. They didn't extend the standard warranty to 1 year out of charity, so even they have to know something is wrong here.
RoidRage @ Jun 6th 2007 5:31PM
People that buy 360's are like the knuckleads that insist on having unprotected buttsecks with tranny hookers. Might be fun for awhile but sooner or later you're gonna suffer some SERIOUS CONSEQUENCES!!
MSFT = OWNT!
Jake @ Jun 6th 2007 5:32PM
I bought a 360 near launch and spent $40 on a Gamestop same day exchange warranty. I have had two boxes fail, both returned same day. After the second, they asked if I wanted to put a $40 extra year on that one and I did. I have not had a failure since then. I have 7 friends that have had 360's since around when Oblivion and GRAW came out or sooner. Not one of them has had a single problem. My first 360 had occasional disc read errors when playing certain games and froze when playing Oblivion every 20 hours or so. My second and current (third) systems never have had a freeze or disc error. My first failed system never red ringed, but would sometimes not output video and I had to restart several times to get it to work. My second system red ringed when my gf tried to boot Tetris Evolved. I didn't have any patience with trying to get either system to work because there is a Gamestop 1 block away and I can return a system anytime no questions asked with same day return.
That is my complete 360 story. Between my 3 owned systems and 7 between my friends, there have been two failures. That is 2/10, or 20%. When I've talked about it with people on Live, I find very few people have bricked systems. Many of my friends with systems have said they don't know anyone with a bricked system. My guess is that there is about a 10% failure rate, which is unnacceptable. Let's just hope that the PS3 doesn't have any problems when it starts getting a year old and older.
With all that said, the 65nm will reduce heat and likely reduce problems. MS is not profitting off of failed systems. It creates negative buzz and costs them a shit-ton in warranty repair work. I am very glad to own a 360 because there are very few PS3 games worth a damn and extremely little coming out until next holiday season. If you don't own a 360 and can wait until the 65nm chip, you probably should. But you are going to want to play Forza2, Mass Effect, Too Human, Bioshock, Halo3, Unreal 3, Fable2, and the plethora of other console exclusives and even multi-platform that the system allows you to play. Live is also very nice. The 360 is by far the "funnest" system out there. I have friends with all consoles and they play the 360 damn near exclusively. Right now it is for C&C, Forza2, Gears, Halo2 (sad but true), and others.
So yeah, the 360 is a poor reliability issue away from being easily the best system out there.
sparki1980 @ Jun 6th 2007 5:36PM
So 360 owners wait for coffins, PS3 owners wait for a game worth playing, and Wii-fans wait for a system to be available (and more fun-flalling games)... seems like too much waiting for everybody...
Well since that I've yet to get that dredded RRoD *knocking* I'm still happy w/ my purchase.
Striderhayasa @ Jun 6th 2007 5:41PM
@luxera
Yeah, i did that math too and realized a long time ago the 360 isn't cheaper if you want the same features of the PS3.
Back on topic....
Three words
Class
Action
Suit
Shawn O @ Jun 6th 2007 5:45PM
Mine worked like butter for a year and a half, no issues, on almost 12 hours a day in a well-ventilated area, used as a media extender and then bam, increased lockups and failed boots until nothing. Almost the exact same weekend my friend's did the same thing.
I'd love to see some figures on this. I'm not interested so much in how many, but what do these things have in common? Were they made around the same day, what batch of chips are they using, do they have parts in common, is it an issue of power quality, etc. I'm sure Microsoft has been looking at these same issues and I'd really like to see these numbers and more importantly know what they're plan is besides just "fix 'em as they break". The fact that there are rumors of Elite systems dying as well means they haven't cracked down on the production lines as much as needed.
ill trooper @ Jun 6th 2007 5:45PM
I hate to type this, but I've found it to be true:
Despite being the least-reliable, tray-loading, noisy-fan, dongle-rific, space-heater ugly box that can eat discs if bumped, it's the best gaming out there.
It's gotta be like dating Naomi Campbell.
On the flipside for all you xbox-fanboys that love to point out that no port on the PS3 looks better or even different, ask yourself: How can the PS3 be doing the exact same thing but run cooler and not die as often? MS better hope the PS3 stays stuck in this game drought.
Digi Smalls @ Jun 6th 2007 5:46PM
spose i'm a lucky one then. launch unit.
my PS3 seems to be really solid too, but i don't think folding@home counts as putting it to the test.
.
Spitkicker @ Jun 6th 2007 5:47PM
Well my launch 360 froze up twice playing Halo 2 in march of 2006, so I requested microsoft repair it. I had a box in two days, sent it out on a thurs, by tues the next week I had a whole new system at my house warranty and registration transfered. I was blown away with the service. Let me note I have the extended warranty on it.
Then, at the end of April 2007 my replacement 360 got the dreaded rings of death. 4 of them not 3...I tried everything but eventually called microsoft and the process repeated itself. The only difference was this time it took a good week to get it back repaired.
I didn't want to miss the Halo 3 beta so I bit the bullet and bought an Elite..I love it, I just hope it doesn't die in 6-12 months or I will be getting angry. I haven't experienced many other issues with my systems, maybe I have been lucky.
Anyway, I do want to say no matter what the defect rate I have been impressed every time by their customer service. Seriously though, if they are running out of 'coffins'...LOL....then that is certainly gonna raise some eyebrows. No way to spin that.
Digi Smalls @ Jun 6th 2007 5:49PM
trooper - easy one. cost $200 more and came out a year later.
.
thebigfatj @ Jun 6th 2007 5:50PM
Microsoft's quality control with the 360 is no longer simply anecdotal. Here is another article on the whole situation:
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=25290
Note that it goes as far as a British consumer watchdog group assessing the excessive failure rates and Microsoft being in violation of British consumer law.
Is anyone here familiar with less reliable electronics than those Microsoft has produced in this console this generation? I've never heard of worse.
Striderhayasa @ Jun 6th 2007 5:52PM
@ jake
was the end of your post supposed to be the start of the flame wars or was that luxera's? (even though I totally agree with that post.)
I know quite a few people that are getting great enjoyment out of their PS3s, myself included. There are a number of titles in the pipeline this year that I'll be enjoying. Don't hate, Congratulate.
I have a friend that bought a launch day 360 that bricked two weeks after launch. I talked to some people at the local EB a few weeks back and at least 4 out of the 7 people I talked to had 360's brick on them and one guy returned his three times. It's an issue. MS doesn't even want to address the failure rate but instead tell us to focus on the consumer service? That's total bullshit.