Wii to be the death of the hardcore gamer?

Galaxy, Prime, and BRAWL. 'nuff said.

Galaxy, Prime, and BRAWL. 'nuff said.

The hardcore gamer isn't going to go away. He's just going to become a smaller percentage of the gaming population... therefore games that appeal solely to h.c. gamers are no longer going to be cashcows. So these people whine.

But, new gamers could possibly migrate to h.c. games, so that would mean BIGGER profits for these devs. They just have to play their cards right.

Plus, no one has really defined hardcore. I consider myself a pretty frequent gamer - about 7-14 hours a week - but I'll play Guitar Hero, Rainbow Six, Halo, Mario Party, Zelda, Wii Sports, and Madden all in the same week. I imagine that's pretty typical - so even if a small percentage of new gamers float to other genres, these devs could cash in.

Bottom line - make interesting games that are worth buying and your precious consumer base will stay. Keep making the same big-gun-and-run games and you'll be out of a job. Survival, baby!

WTF do people even mean when they say "hardcore?" Violence? Cinemas? Nintendo's series are the most "hardcore" of all time and pretty DEFINE the word "videogame."

Bullshit

they fear their company's irrelevance in the industry (entirely illogical, especially with the success of their engine, applicable for more than just ultrarealistic action/shooter games), so spread FUD against those with different artisitic visions about what gaming can be

Its not like the hardcore gamers are going to go away...

this is a bunch of garbage. here's a good example of a casual gamer that could become a hardcore gamer: my mom. she loves shooter games, and especially enjoys war games. i rented MOH, and she loved it. i got her to start her own game, and after a few minutes of guidance, she was on her way. she's pretty good at multiplayer too.

anyway, she would never have even given MOH a shot on PS2, because of the controls. now all she has to do is point and click, and only press a button or two. there are countless numbers of people who are intimidated by gaming because of the control schemes. the wii eliminates that, and welcomes more people to play. it's the publishers fault that we're being barraged with mini-games and ports. it's not like nintendo specifically told them not to develop new games.

B.S.

There are lots of games which allow for multitude of games plays.

My favorites are RPGs. When I compare to how my friend plays and I do - I really understand that I am no gamer. (Hint: I always have several extra levels and potions are always stocking up. He plays with hero several levels lower and uses up all money/potions/items/etc to their fullest.)

I honestly think that Wii might help hard core gamers - by separating non-hardcore demographics. IOW, studios would be able to produce games for casuals for mass market. But also produce - probably fewer, but hard core folks need fewer but better - games specifically made for the population. I mean, most often heard complain from hard core guys: silly stuff put into game to appeal to casual gamers.

Historically, studios were using hardcore gamers as free advertisement for games. Now that seems to be over.

Not even remotely true. I'd imagine the Wii to do about as well as the PS2, the only difference will be that everyone in a household will use it, not just the one or two gamers.

This would mean there are just as many 'hardcore' gamers using the system, you just also have the advantage of the non-traditional gamer using it as well. The audience is bigger, not smaller.

My support for the argument that the Wii isn't just for 'casual' gamers? Check wikipedia for the #1 selling Wii game. Apart from Wii Sports (bundled in most territories), it's the 40+ hour long Zelda:TP.

I have plenty of 'gamer' friends who want/have a Wii. Just because a smaller percentage of Wii users are 'core' gamers compared to other systems, doesn't mean the overall number of such gamers has gone down.

If I already check gonintendo regularly is there really any need to continue reading Wiifanboy?
Of course gonintendo doesn't post near as many pictures of cats, but then again for that I can always go to catfanboy.

First:
It's not the Wii who could do that. It's the companies who think Wii is only for casuals.

Second:
The real hardcore gamer is in extinction danger, so it doesn't matter if the fake ones disappear. Sony with its PSX gave life to the new 'hardcore gamer', and I really hope Wii kills that concept, because the current hardcore gamer concept is pure B.S.

Though I'm a fan of the Wii, I thought his article was well written and he had strong reasons to back up his idea. He is right that EA and Ubi would follow Ninty's path in that they both announced a number of casual games, EA creating an exclusive division for them.

But he is ignorant of what Nintendo has planned for the rest of the year and 2008. New IPs like Disaster and HAMMER are both focused for the hardcore crowd.

I wonder which game would he let his little girl play? Gears or Wii play?

Hardcore gamers are already dead. They're a myth. The best selling game last year was Madden. Hardcore my ass.

I am a hardcore gamer.

I refuse to believe that Final Fantasy whatever-the-hell they are at now is better than the Final Fantasies on Super Nintendo because they spent millions more dollars and added a bunch of cool videos to it.

I'm almost as worried that we'll see nothing but mini-games and sports games... although I'm comforted by Metroid Prime 3 and Mario Galaxy. But really, THE POINT IS GAMEPLAY. Mini-games offer gameplay and nothing but.

Screw all the million dollar cinematics. It's a waste of our money, and it's stunting innovation in GAME PLAY.

What does this guy know about hardcore? What does anyone know about hardcore anymore? People throw these buzz words around for attention, so they can say "you are cool if you are hardcore". So people can say "I'm hardcore I have _______ console!" How can this guy say that Nintendo is leaving hardcore gamers when they own the best selling franchises? It hasn't even been out for 1 year and people are jumping to the conclusion that everything is going to be mini-games.

Think of it, your a developer, this Wii starts selling well, and it will take 1.5~ years to get a GOOD game out for it, well why not release some mini-games now to make a quick buck. That's what the developers that did not believe in the Wii did, they didn't invest time into the Wii, and are now releasing these quick ports / mini-games to make some fast cash. The problem is people (for some reason) see the games on the Wii and say "another mini-game" but are blind to the fact that PS3 doesn't have that much games coming out at all. Or that Xbox360 doesn't have the number of system sellers yet, even though it's been out 4X longer than the Wii. After 1 year compare what Wii will have to what PS3 and Xbox360 will have, then see where the hardcore games are...

Might as well compare Pac-Man Championship to Twilight Princess and say MS are going to the non-hardcore gamers! It just doesn't make sense...

will it really be all that bad loser the hardcore gamer..?? i dont think so.. maybe they can actually get lifes :)

Of course this would be a bad thing. I myself would consider myself a hardcore gamer. I have a PS3 but that doesn't mean I dislike the Wii. I just don't want to see all of the developers just start making mini-games and fun games. I want to also be able to get caught up in a story and be amazed by crazy good graphics. It's a very good thing that Nintendo is bringin in more casual gamers because now they're expanding a different market so we can all play fun games on the casual market, but if it starts taking away from the hardcore gaming market, that's going to suck.

who decides whats hardcore? just because you play ultra violent video games and are obsessed with the latest graphics fluff like normal mapping HDRI bla bla bla.... does not make you hard core. Playing every single god damn Mario game since 1985, that makes you hard core!

Rubbish. The Wii is like marijuana in that it's a gateway "video game." Do you think heroin and cocaine dealers would be upset if pot were legalized and, as a result, everyone and their mothers started smoking it? Of course not! The Wii is going to open up the market to new gamers which will necessarily lead to more hardcore gamers.

As for existing hardcore gamers, the popularity of the Wii isn't somehow going to make us softer.

"I just don't want to see all of the developers just start making mini-games and fun games."

Yes, heaven forbid developers make fun games =)

Gonna have to agree with the death of hardcore.

I believe someone once said you have failed as an artist the moment you belong to pop culture.

Also note that success is catering to the most common demographic. The average person has an IQ of 100.

Here's hoping there is engaging gameplay on the Wii, and not overbeared with cheap ports, and uninspired same olds.

I'm pretty sure if I hear someone else say that 'hardcore' gaming is dying, I'm going to kick a small animal across a street, and pretend it's a 'hradkore-iz-dyig' idiot. I might do it twice, out of sheer spite. Get out of my hobby, already.

What an inane concept. Do people really think that the 'hardcore' crowd is going to stop playing games altogether if the Wii dominates the industry? BS. There will always be companies who will want to push the visual envelope. As much as I love my Wii, it is not the only system I have. I will not stop playing games if it 'wins' and pushes my other systenms out of commercial legitimacy, and those gamers that claim the sky is falling over this are as hardcore as water is dry.

Hardcore gaming is not solely about innovation, or graphics, or what games you play. It's about how much you put into the hobby beyond the petty interweb fanboy stupidity. How often do you play? Do you play with the intent to becoming better at the game? Do you play to win more than you play to have fun? How many systems you own, not merely which ones. Do you decide to pick up a game and cut it rather tight in the pocket book on a spur of the moment purchase, or can you control yourself and not desire a game so much that you must buy it as close to immediately as possible.

If you think trashing a system on an internet blog, and claiming your hardcore-ness is in danger, you are not hardcore. You cannot be hardcore if you think you are in danger of having your lifestyle becoming a moot point. You don't get what makes gamers gamers.

In short, stop worrying, and play your goddamned games. Hardcore ain't going away.

@John,

Video games, be they "hardcore" (meaningless semantics) or "casual" (easy to play, I assume this means), are part of popular culture, it doesn't take a particularly high IQ to play them (usually just good reflexes), so I guess all video games are worthless to you? And Beethoven and the Beatles must be failures as artists, since most people like at least some of their music, which makes them "pop".

I don't understand this line:

"Me? I'll take "Kashmir" over "Staying Alive" any day of the week."

Um, I like both songs, and wouldn't want to listen to Kashmir every single day; every so often I'd want to hear Staying Alive. I have more than one musical taste, and more than one taste when it comes to video games. I would think that as long as the market for "hardcore" (meaning, what, violent?) games exists, games will be made that cater to that audience. Doom has existed alongside Harvest Moon for years. Really, I hear these complaints about movies, too: Hollywood is obsessed with shallow, big budget epics instead of small indie films, blah blah blah, and yet thousands of films of every conceivable genre come out every year if one takes the time to look for them. It sounds to me that "hardcore" gamers are selfishly wanting the entire game industry to belong to them, and grandma and her 5-year-old niece aren't allowed to participate. Sorry guys, welcome to Planet Earth, the world doesn't revolve around you.

The folks criticizing the idea behind this are not thinking...they are just being fanboys.

There is some basis for thinking the Wii could be the end of "hardcore" gaming. As I see it, a hardcore gamer likes games to continually push the envelope of technology. Bigger, better, etc. Obviously the games also have to be well done, have good gameplay, etc. But "true" gamers also want to see the envelope continuously pushed, graphics improved, production quality improved, etc.

The Wii, obviously, isn't a console that even considers that sort of thing, and because of it's huge success one has to ask whether there is any point for development studios to incur the higher and higher production costs of game development that pushes the envelope.

I personally have had the same fear myself as Wii has continued to be successful. I don't really see the Wii as a next-gen console. It's a last gen console with a gimick. I'm THRILLED for Nintendo that it is doing so well...but the direction it takes the industry, for ME, isn't a positive one. Honestly, I consider the Wiimote a pain in the proverbial arse to use. It is not as comfortable as a normal controller for normal game use (just imho) and the appeal of swinging a controller around, etc. to play a game quickly wears off (especially if you have tennis elbow, or other similiar injuries).

In the end, though, I've decided that the success of the Wii is a long term benefit to the gaming community. Although we will surely see far more "casual" games ... and by extension less non-casual games... that's not necessarily a bad thing. Developers won't put out so much non-casual crap, I think. Instead, those who just are after the quick bucks will invest the time in the casual game.

The end result, I hope, will be that more hardcore gamers will see a higher percentage of GOOD releases, despite fewer of them...that's not such a bad thing.

And, as others have said, many of the casuals of today will get into genres of games considered more hardcore as they get comfortable with the technology and find they really ARE gamers.

So...imho, I totally see where Tyler is coming from...but I have hopes that reality will pan out to the benefit of all.

And seriously... I may not like the Wii personally, but I do respect Nintendo as a company...and as I said, am thrilled at the success they are seeing. Brilliant businesses deserve to do well, even if I'm not the customer they are catering to.

I remember hearing that reality TV would kill the television writer, but now the bubble has burst. Everything works out over time.

Further, the notion that the Wii would kill hardcare gaming makes a big assumption: "hardcore" gamers are defecting to Nintendo, or that casual gamers would play games like Gears of War or WoW if there were no Wii Sports. Not very likely. Hardcore game development and casual game development appeal to different markets.

The market for 360 and PS3 will most likely be somewhat independent of the market for Wii, particularly with hardcore gamers. If the Wii is really EXPANDING (or in many cases, rediscovering) the video game market, then all things being equal, MS and Sony will not be harmed, and their target demographic will continue to buy their products. If, on the other hand, they put out an overpriced console...

My point is that the market will right itself. What will probably happen is that companies will initially see the immense profitability of making quick and easy casual games (vs. big-budget hardcore epics), flood the market with some mediocre games that will eventually not sell so hot, and then go back to some happy medium between the two. Neither one will kill the other.

What defines the hardcore gamer?? I think the wii is started bring things more toward what games used to be in the snes era...fun..tho i do admit there are lots of games so far that have been "lacking"...yet i still have hope...amd maybe sony and microsoft can join in too...if they focuz less on graphics and more on gameplay..

@19 So your government's drug propaganda works? Marijuana isn't a gateway drug. Nicotine is. Alcohol is. And YES, crack dealers would be pissed if pot was legalized because they can't offer pot buying kids their other stuff too.

Oh and the hardcore debate... There will be a market for those "hardcore" games in the future too. I guess the market share will decrease in relative numbers though. Because of the expansion n stuff.

Either mint400 belongs to the "most common demographic" that John mentioned or the lack of exhaling is cutting off his brain's supply of oxygen.

I disagree with the guy's idea of a good video game industry... but I do think his math is interesting:

METAL GEAR SOLID 2: cost $10 million dollars, sold 7 million copies
SUPER MARIO BROTHERS 3: cost less than $1 million, sold 18 million copies
WARIOWARE: cost less than $1 million, sold 1 million copies (so far)

By that metric, Warioware is already on its way to being as successful as Metal Gear Solid 2 -- in terms of sheer profit. Are gaming companies going to keep investing huge money into great graphics when they can sell just as much, if not more, with less development?

I think that's the real question.

The truth is, MGS2 was a piece of crap because you spent half the game watching movies. The other half you spent playing, only half of that was as the hero! What a rip off!

Graphics aren't fooling me. The most hardcore gamers aren't stupid.

Instead of seeing another FPS clone on HDTV, let's see Red Steel 2. THAT sounds dope to me.

Sooooo... Hardcore gamers = bloodlusting, over-sensitive, people willing to dish out thousands of dollars to play games on systems that seems to almost totally cater to their needs?

True hardcore gamers have already been marginilised, in my opinion. They were the ones who grew up on pure action games - shooters, fighters, and the like, which have since become niche genres while RPGs, first person shooters, and sports games became 'mainstream.' Those true hardcore people don't give a damn about what some random guys says about the industry, as they'd rather be spending thier time practicing!

Well i think this whole thing is not realy a concern anymore seeing as the wii is hosting the first AO console game (manhunt 2) aside from san andreas.