Microsoft in 'open dialogue' with ECC over disc scratching concerns
by Ross Miller 
{ Jun 13th 2007 at 3:54PM }
The company released a statement saying that they "are working in an open dialogue with Commissioner Kuneva to clarify our position and all the efforts we are taking across the EU, and in fact globally, to address any consumer concerns."
However, as 1UP notes, Microsoft released a separate statement to MCV that has since been amended. That statement placed the blame on "improper use" of the Xbox 360, which involves moving the console while a disc is inside. Kassa's own report indicates that the scratching can occur if the console is switched from horizontal to vertical position, so though the user may be at fault, is the policy therefore unfair? Microsoft did retract this statement; it's unclear if they did so due to a change of heart or because implying consumer fault is just bad PR.
The statement went on to say, "As we have said previously, there is no widespread issue regarding scratched discs as is alleged by Kassa." That's a far cry from the statistical data we were hoping to see, and the subjectivity of the word "widespread" leaves Microsoft a rather large window for problems. We hope to hear more as the public investigation continues.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
vidGuy @ Jun 13th 2007 4:03PM
Scratch rings as pictured above are most definitely the result of shifting the console while the disc is spinning. Whether or not MS should be found liable for damages is up for debate, but it would have been nice for MS to ensure safer spinning or to at least pop up a warning message when the system is shifted during gameplay that says:
"Your console has been moved from a vertical position to a horizontal position [or vice versa depending on the direction the software recognizes]. Please note that moving the console during gameplay can cause serious harm to your game disc."
But, I've still had some pretty scratched up discs, and they are always either in their cases or in the tray, and my console stays flat. They don't prevent the games from loading, yet.
Jake @ Jun 13th 2007 4:06PM
If you tilt your machine while it is running, it WILL scratch the disc. I did this with Gears when I was drunk once; I actually kicked the machine over like a drunk dumbass. It scratched my game and left some kind of smudge marks on it. Fortunately it was still playable after I buffed it.
It was funny too because when it happened the first thing that came to my head was the gamestop employee earlier that week asking me if I wanted to pay $5 or something to insure my copy of Gears. I laughed in his face and said no. I was thinking, like what kind of idiot destroys a game. A drunk one.
hvnlysoldr @ Jun 13th 2007 4:08PM
"I am not a crook."
Vidikron @ Jun 13th 2007 4:10PM
On one hand I think is essentially correct in saying that it's user error. This is caused by people moving or bumping their systems while a disc is playing in the drive.
But on the other hand why do they have a drive like that in their systems? There are lots of consumer devices on the market that have drives that can be moved around without the disc scratching. MS doesn't manufacture the drives themselves, but they shouldn't have allowed their supplier(s) to give them such drives.
mprobins @ Jun 13th 2007 4:13PM
There are definately 360's out there with defective drives that will scratch disks. No movement required, just play a game long enough and it'll happen...
My 2nd refurb unit would scratch discs like crazy. I'd be in the middle of playing a game and suddently the dvd drive would make a horrible noise; after the noise stopped, BLAM, dirty disc error. Pull the disc out and sure enough, it's been scratched to hell and back...
baby sea tuna @ Jun 13th 2007 4:14PM
While the RRoD is definitely a legitimate problem, I personally have yet to see a 360 scratch a disc like that (and I know at least 10 360 owners personally.) Not saying it doesn't happen but I'm thinking user error is definitely a contributing factor. Just my $.02
WhackMushroom @ Jun 13th 2007 4:31PM
now if we could get those failure rates .. that would be the xbox watergate . god i love a theme.
ymmv @ Jun 13th 2007 4:21PM
Kassa did a number of tests and found that in a scratches could occour when the Xbox 360 was not touched or moved at all. They invited a number of Xbox 360 owners to their studio, put their consoles on a rock solid table, made sure that no one could get near a 360 and let everybody there play brandnew games for a whole day. They found there were one or two consoles out of the bunch that did in fact scratch disks and this led to an apology from Microsoft in the Netherlands and the assurance they would replace scratched discs.
joemoemino @ Jun 13th 2007 4:25PM
My 360 ate my disc when it was perfectly still. Not just scratched it til it could not be used, but swallowed half of it.
jman @ Jun 13th 2007 4:26PM
Ok so i agree that this could be a problem of the user but at the same time it shouldn't happen...how many times have you heard of ps2 discs being scratched from swithching positions??? I'm not hating on microsoft.....but, i do blame them for this problem....
Triforceowner @ Jun 13th 2007 4:36PM
It says clearly on a booklet that is titled something like "Read this before using your 360" that you should not touch your system while it is in use. Can't read, tough luck, that's your problem. Could Microsoft have included a disc drive that had a type of shock absorption? Yeah, but that would just cost even more money. (Not too much, but some.)
Goblemonster @ Jun 13th 2007 4:45PM
I'm another victim of the scratched disc issue. And for all you freetards out there, no, it's not from intentionally moving the console while it's on. I'm not going to waste any more discs trying to get down to the root cause in my system, but a few guesses (neither of which are acceptible causes if the console):
Vibrations from sub-woofer/home theater system,
Vibrations from foot traffic near the console (which is in my entertainment center)
I've isolated my console and put additional dampening in the form of a towel to help. I've also switched the position of the console (while off) from the verticle to horizontal positions, neither of which have resolved the disc scratching issue.
Say what you want, but my console has a scratching issue due to a design shortcoming.
TK00 @ Jun 13th 2007 4:46PM
This must have come up in testing, and they should have designed the 360 to ONLY lay on its side; problem solved. Instead they chose form over function, and copied the PS2 with the cool vertical look.
Scott Baio @ Jun 13th 2007 5:02PM
@9
My PS2 scratched a Taiko Drumming game disc when I moved it from vertical to horizontal. I learned my lesson and really wouldn't blame Sony for it at all.
What I would blame Sony for it why my PS2 wouldn't read CD-Rom based games after 2 years of use.
RCW @ Jun 13th 2007 5:08PM
The 360 is obviously a piece of junk. People can complain all they want about the PS3 price but at least it's a solid piece of hardware. I think paying 600 for something that works is a better deal than 400 for something that breaks constantly and destroys your games. To each his own though.
Dan @ Jun 13th 2007 5:50PM
The PSone/PS2 scratched discs... it just wasn't fashionable to get all angry and put it on the internet back in the 90s.
You just cleaned up the disc, tried it again, and if it didn't work, you bought a new copy.
It is almost always due to user error, and so you have to deal with it yourself by buying a new copy of the game.
Jacki Boi @ Jun 13th 2007 5:58PM
When i phoned up MS about my scratched disks, they asked me whether
"the console was vertical or horizontal?"...
i told them it was horizontal and always had been...
they then replid saying that :
"Sorry to inform you sir, but your console is likely to scratch your disks if it is palced in the horizontal position."
When we phoned them back telling them it was vertical they told us it should be HORIZONTAL.
it sounds like they should sort out their facts.
Steve @ Jun 13th 2007 6:01PM
With the xbox 360 love with committing suicide and users commonly reporting the need to send their systems in for repair 5 or 6 times within one year of purchase, isn't it strange that the only issue the ECC has with this defective device is the disc scratching issue?
Scott Baio @ Jun 13th 2007 6:11PM
Jacki Boi,
If you average out the two responses you will recieve the true answer...diagonal.
Jacki Boi @ Jun 13th 2007 6:18PM
Scott,
haha, i have to agree, they'll have to come up with a special stand for that one.
Lord HowitHurtz @ Jun 13th 2007 7:18PM
I can tell you right now this is a manufacturing defect. I get scratched games and DVD's. I have my systems on a marble table which rests on a concrete floor. The 360 is horizontal, it does not move and the only time I touch it is to press the eject button to remove a game. I ran different tests on it just to check. I went to the video store and rented a couple new movies and by new I mean I was the first one to rent them, there was not a mark on any of the dvd's. I put one in, started the movie and I let it play all the way through. After I removed it and it had several very visible scratches on the disc but the scratches weren't all the same, some of them followed the grooves of the dvd but some of them went across the disc. I put in a different dvd and let it play for 30 minutes and removed it. It had two very tiny scratches both of which followd the grooves of the dvd. The rest of the dvd's I played for various lengths of time and the scratches followd the order of time played. Example..the longer the discs were in the xbox the more scratches it had and the shorter had less. The system wasn't moved, touched or even looked at and it scratched the dvd's. This is definitely a manufacturing defect and it should be fixed for free by microsoft.
mike @ Jun 13th 2007 8:46PM
My first Xbox 360 had this exact problem in november, when GOW first came out. It just started scrathing up all my discs exactly like the picture showed. My console was not being moved at all. I called MS to get it fixed (since I was under warrenty) and they kept saying I was responsible and it was impossible to get scrathes without moving.
Well I dont care what they said, it was happening to me. After fighting with several managers over the phone, I was hung up on several times. Knowing I was boned, I ebayed the system and luckaly got most of my money for it. Second system went 5 months of heavy use and then freezes with 3 red rings. Overheating could not possibly of been a problem because I purposely had the thing next to my open 24/7 bedroom window. The system itself was practically outside, and in winter too, so it was nice and cool. WEll I had store warrenty this time and used it, jsut got my 3rd system as a replacment. Now im scared to use the 3rd system, especially with it being summer. So im now selling my 360 and plan to buy an elite whenever they fix these manufacturing problems. Sucks cause I have a gold live account which I wont be using for like the next 6 months it looks like.
ed @ Jun 13th 2007 9:09PM
My xbox scratched my gears of war disc on the first level and my xbox has always been horizontal and i was no-where near it at the time...
so, to those who claim otherwise, the xbox can definately scratch discs without someone moving it!!
my xbox was only 2wks old at the time. judging from the cd tray it had one of the first cd drives in that had the missing rubber pads that stabilise the disc, my replacement console has the second drive type in it. I haven't tried it with gears of war yet as i need to send it back and pay microsoft for a replacement which i still haven't swallowed my pride enough to do yet!
funny thing is - microsoft accepted that my console must be faulty based on the description of the scratched disc (and offered to replace my console) but refused to accept that it was at fault for scratching the disc (thus not replacing my gears disc for free)... crazy twisted logic!!!
Rod Munch @ Jun 13th 2007 9:43PM
My DOA4, Topspin 2 and Oblivion discs are scratched incredibly bad. But hey they work (unlike my 360 for the past 6 months) so I can't complain to much. I gotta say that I had little respect for xbox customer service, but a free year's Live subscription, 4000 MS points and a wireless adaptor aren't bad compensation for 5 months of not getting my 360 fixed! 3 replacements all braking on the first try FTW!!!
ed @ Jun 14th 2007 5:54AM
@triforceowner
"Could Microsoft have included a disc drive that had a type of shock absorption? Yeah, but that would just cost even more money."
haha, according to the tv investigation the drive in the original xbox360 disc drive *did* have shork absorbers as standard (little rubber pads), but -for reasons best known to themselves- Microsoft removed them!!