Sega: Wii hype may soon wear off
Et tu, hedgehog?Sonic and Mario may be friendly enough to co-star in the Olympics, but there are some dissenters in the upper ranks of Sega who think Nintendo's console reign will soon end.
"I am a little concerned about the creative depth of the Wii pool. I'm not sure if they will top out in 2008 or 2007," said Scott Steinberg, VP of marketing for the U.S. unit of Sega Sammy Holdings Inc., in an interview with Reuters. "The Wii will start to look really dated in a couple years when developers get more value from the 360 and learn more and more about the PlayStation 3."
Steinberg seems to be equating creativity to graphical horsepower, a notion that runs counterintuitive to Nintendo's party line. "How much value can developers and creative folks get out of this wrist motion two years from now, or 5 years from now, or 10 years from now? ... How can they design products that aren't too derivative of what's already out there?" he said. Those are strong words, though we aren't sure what parallel dimension he lives in where the PS3 and Xbox 360 are immune to a multitude of derivative titles, themselves.
To be sure, Steinberg does not oversee any of the development and production decisions -- he's a marketing guy. However, with Nintendo currently riding high on sales charts and a once-unimaginable friendship existing between the two companies, is Steinberg being short-sighted or prophetic?
[Update: Responding to some of the negative reaction to his comments, Scott Steinberg has shared additional remarks with Reuters Blogs. His new comments can be viewed after the break.]
Says Steinberg: "SEGA has fully supported the Wii since day one and we continue to do so – it's no secret that we are close partners. Nintendo has done a masterful job of selling its vision and expanding the market. That said, it's a shared responsibility and opportunity for the whole industry to take advantage of the possibilities of the Wii. If we don't realize its true potential, we will have missed a great opportunity to expand creatively and that is what I was cautioning against in the Reuters interview. I'm not just putting the responsibility of innovation on Nintendo. It's on SEGA and all the publishers and developers as well to carry that flag."
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Dud @ Jun 15th 2007 1:50PM
Sounds like someone who is just upset he spent $600 on a PS3 to me.
Awwwwwwwwwwwww.
Phaty000 @ Jun 15th 2007 1:57PM
I'll start listening to Sega when they put out a good game.
Last one that was truly amazing was Skies of Arcadia.
Raikage @ Jun 15th 2007 2:00PM
Compared to the PS3/360 it looks dated now. But thats not the point! It never was. It's about fun, according to Nintendo, not graphics. Thats why people are eating up games on the VC, they are fun, plain and simple.
On the other hand, fun games CAN and ARE made for powerful systems, even those that would not be the same on the Wii (Dead Rising, Oblivion come to mind). That's where the Big N fanboys get it wrong, they think only the Wii can have fun games, but that is obviously not true.
spikepoint @ Jun 15th 2007 2:01PM
... I'm sorry, I just can't stop laughing over the irony of this statement after taking into consideration how much better Sonic Rings was in comparison to Sonic Next.
Crono @ Jun 15th 2007 2:01PM
Sega is about the LAST company Nintendo needs to get console advice from.
hvnlysoldr @ Jun 15th 2007 2:03PM
ZING!
Shagittarius @ Jun 15th 2007 2:03PM
More companies need to ban together against Nintendo and their casual gaming platform. This route will only lead to the de-evolution of gaming. As a popular medium casual gamers will abandon the platform relativley quickly and its important that the industry doesn't shift to cater to casual gamers if this artform is to retain the things that are truely important to games.
The Wii is a cash grab every way you look at it, and its championed by casual gamers who are known to buy terrible games. If casual gamers are allowed to dictate the industy it will become like all other popular exploited artforms, music, movies, etc...the true gamers (who really know which games are good and reward companies by buying those games) will continue to be marginalized until the industry no longer apeals to them at all.
I use to be terrified that this was the course the uninformed consumer would dictate but recently i've comforted myself with the fact that soon the casual gamers will abandon the platform all together before it can do any real damage. Sure we might lose a few companies who get too hevily invested in the casual market but I don't think we'll see a crash like we did in the 80s.
I hope more industry people aren't afraid to speak out against the Wii. Its not good for the industry long term as an approach to gaming.
Dud @ Jun 15th 2007 2:04PM
The real issue I have with him is that his statements are the same as someone last year prior to E3 that had never even tried a Wii. "DUURR A Remote?? Look at those Gamecube graphics!!"
And a year later that idea was smashed into the ground.
It's pretty amazing someone from marketing would take a poo on one of this generations biggest money makers for Sega. Could you imagine if this was Nintendo circa 1994? Sega would lose their publishing on the console entirely and left to rot. Not cool.
Karen @ Jun 15th 2007 2:05PM
@spikepoin
I was thinking the exact same thing!
Genius @ Jun 15th 2007 2:09PM
As far as Im concerned the hype has already worn off for me. I havent played my Wii in months, hell I havent turned it on to update it in months. They lost me at the point I realized I cant buy any non-minigame gimmicks for it (AKA real games).
Craigo @ Jun 15th 2007 2:10PM
Wait, Sega is criticizing a console-maker?
What's next, will the NHL be criticizing the NFl for failing to expand its fanbase?
sheppy @ Jun 15th 2007 2:10PM
Wow, a company sounds off and you people act like you're personally vested in Wii. This is not the first time it's been stated, nor will it ever be the last. I remember the HUGE backlash after the "two gamecubes duct taped together" incident. Are you guys really that insecure? Do you see the sales today and really think "this isn't gonna last forever. Let's be the biggest insecure dickheads we can while we can."
Sega has been wrong in the past, they could be wrong now. Either way, who cares? Is this really all it takes you fire you people up?
I have my Wii, I love my Wii, but I am definately waiting for these epic experiences that 360 and PS3 are focused on.
Leobebes @ Jun 15th 2007 2:11PM
Is there anyway the Wii can implement HD support through some type of patch? I remember when the Xbox version 1 first came out it didn't have HD support but they implemented 720p support later in it's life cycle. I know I sound like early adpoting dork when I say this, but I have two HD tv's in my home and the Wii looks like crap on both of them. If Nintendo had some HD support on the Wii I would get one like right now!
Captain @ Jun 15th 2007 2:12PM
Put a sock in it Shagittarius.
MaX PL and the 360 r4pe Tr4iN @ Jun 15th 2007 2:12PM
you laugh now but even as a xbox fanboy i'll admit in their assesment that the PS3 will win this generation. sony will do what it did with the PS2, and while microsoft and nintendo come out with xbox 3 and wii 2, sony will make profit from the low cost PS3 years from now.
wii hype will be non-existent 2 years from now when both next gen consoles have low prices.
CapAmerica @ Jun 15th 2007 2:13PM
Like Sega knows anything about the console market.
kraoro @ Jun 15th 2007 2:13PM
I haven't even plugged in my Wii since I beat Zelda. How about we get some real games, and not 4-year-old ports with waggle controls tacked on? And I will strangle a kitten if I see one more damn collection of minigames.
Naota @ Jun 15th 2007 2:13PM
@7
What the heck do you mean? That's like saying that the world will end if democracy is spread world wide.
What I can see happening is that more people will be introduced to gaming and then they may become more towards the hard-core side than casual. What gaming needs is a good amount of exposure because that's what pushes it forward.
Think about it. When you see the kinds of people who play games like Halo, you don't exactly see the hard-core crew you speak of. Just people who think that characters with cheesy one-liners like master chief are awsome. If you were to ask me, I'd define that as the same kind of crap you see in movies and TV, not to say that it's a bad game, I enjoy a round of Halo every so often, but I think you're missing the point of expansion.
Craigo @ Jun 15th 2007 2:14PM
On a more serious note, it's amazing how frightened these industry types are of a future where they'll have to prosper by using creativity. They've spent the better part of the decade folluing graphics-whores into believing that pretty polygons equals a great interactive experience, and as a result the techies, not the artists, are in control of most of these companies.
JodyAnthony @ Jun 15th 2007 2:15PM
I swear sheppy is the only person on this site with any sense.
chenry @ Jun 15th 2007 2:16PM
That's a lot coming from a company that's been making the same Sonic the Hedgehog game for the last couple decades.
Dustin @ Jun 15th 2007 2:17PM
I agree with #10, the Wii had me, I was excited as hell and pitching the system to everyone I knew. Then I was playing the same type of shat over and over. WiiPlay finally killed it and I havent turned it on since, they really need some good games stat!
Gamble20 @ Jun 15th 2007 2:18PM
I agree with Sega...
there is no lasting appeal to the Wii. If you buy it, your buying it to have fun now. The Online is crap, the games are nothing new (outside of the controls which wont be new years from now), and we all no how aful the graphics are in comparison to its competitors.
I don't think it will fail, I'm just happy I'm not wasting money on that last gen crap. I own a PS3 (or you can insert 360 here I would say the same thing), so I will get a new revolutionary experience in the years to come.
Adv2k1 @ Jun 15th 2007 2:19PM
in a year or two the motion controls will be so refined it will be impossible to play 360 or ps3 games because they will FEEL more primitive.
I could never go back to playing Godfather on 360, its just allot more fun on Wii. Just think with time how better an experience will be on Wii.
Shagittarius your a elitest snob and you disgust me.
JodyAnthony @ Jun 15th 2007 2:19PM
"If you buy [Wii], your buying it to have fun"
NO SHIT!
Kizzle @ Jun 15th 2007 2:20PM
Bought it in January. Last played it in late March. Biggest console disappointment ever.
spikepoint @ Jun 15th 2007 2:21PM
@sheppy:
For me personally it's less about being insecure with my Wii (... please don't read that out loud, it sounds rather vaguely dirty,) and more about being snarky because this seems like a ridiculous thing for a person in his positon to say publicly.
I love my Wii and I love my 360. Currently one of those platforms has SEGA games on it that I like. Although, to their credit I quite enjoyed Full Auto at E3'05... it's just superfluous in a world where Burnout exists.
I look forward to SEGA getrting their ducks in a row for all of the machines on the market, since Crush for the PSP is pretty amazing and I'd love to see more from whereever they got that.
In the meantime, snark abounds.
Gamble20 @ Jun 15th 2007 2:22PM
I love how joystioq forgot to mention that he also predicted that PS3 would enjoy the largest install base by the end of the generation.
not that it means much for any console, Sega has proven with their failures both now and in the past that their opinion means nothing.
Keeko_ca @ Jun 15th 2007 2:23PM
That's funny Shagittarius, I could have used that EXACT same arguement last generation when referring to the GameCube and the PS2. I STILL think most of Nintendo's games are considerably top notch...and can only be made better with new creative input. Too bad in the past, they were often over-shadowed by shovelware on the PS2. From a specific console fan's perspective, it's unfortunate to be on the other side of the fence isn't it?
Anyways, this is one man who has an opinion. Sure, he works for Sega, but in my opinion, he may as well be on joystiq here typing his fanboy rant in the comments section. Move along.
Gamble20 @ Jun 15th 2007 2:23PM
@ JodyAnthony
I said to have fun NOW, as in right when you buy it. After a while it sucks.
Bachus @ Jun 15th 2007 2:23PM
All of this talk about the new console wars got me interested. Currently i don't own a single current gen console just because i'm a college student and can play all 3 thanks to buddies in close proximity. As such, i've never bought a game so i never experienced what the game-type disparity was, but if metacritic can be trusted, not only are the wii's games lower scores on avg, but most of the top 20 are indeed mini-games or half-assed ports. Looks like i may save up for a ps3 to connect to my psp after all...
Grey Acumen @ Jun 15th 2007 2:24PM
Yeah, it's so obvious that the Wii hype will just wear off. I mean just look at how badly DS has been doing against the more superiorly designed PSP now that it's been almost 3 years.
All the DS has is stylus controls going for it. It was just a quick cash cow for horrible uninventive cashcow games like Elite Beat Agents, Phoenix Wright, and Nintendogs. Not like anyone is going to bother developing a game along the lines of FinalFantasy, DragonQuest, or Castlevania for it.
The same thing is going to happen to the Wii, so Nintendo might as well just pack up their bags now before they ruin their image.
Chris @ Jun 15th 2007 2:24PM
I love when people try to post intelligent sounding posts and then it is all discredited when you see their username is "r4ape tr4in" lol
Ass-Ass-In @ Jun 15th 2007 2:25PM
"in a year or two the motion controls will be so refined it will be impossible to play 360 or ps3 games because they will FEEL more primitive."
Please. A "year or two?" Are you retarded? Look how long it took to get from the Power Glove (not that it was the first motion control interface, but it's what most Nintendo fans would know) to the Wiimote...and the Wiimote STILL doesn't work well on several games that have been released.
More likely scenario - in a year or two, this motion control fad will wear off and people will go back to the tried and true formula that wasn't broken to begin with.
I didn't entirely agree with Shagittarius, but he does bring up some good points. People ripping on him - don't be jealous that your thought process doesn't extend beyond "huh huh, Twilight Princess is a ten no matter what Gamespot sez."
sheppy @ Jun 15th 2007 2:28PM
I'd like to state first off, if the minigames collections are as good as Rayman, no worries about bringing more. Sadly, Rayman remains the apex (Mario Party should have just removed the board game aspect). But with a Raving Rabbits 2 on the way, I cannot complain. Also, Manhunt 2...
But god how I'm tempted to mod my Wii just for Bleach. Nintendo? Seriously... fuck you for region locking after saying you wouldn't. You kept Naruto games from being released in the US for way too long and now I fear Bleach will be lost to me as well as that new Gundam Ace Pilot game (dodge and move with the nunchuck, aim with the remote.... blasting the RX-78-02 to hell in your custom Gelgoog as the Red Comet.... priceless).
I'd also like to remind people who are currently bashing Sega right now, they are giving us FUCKING NIGHTS as a console exclusive. Think about that. The most demanded sequel in Sega's library that the constant answer had been "nope, not happening" and it's happening right now. Personally, Nintendo fans should be feeling a massive amount of debt to Sega.
Sam G. @ Jun 15th 2007 2:28PM
I hate the idea that lack of creative games is somehow the fault of the console maker. At this point, to be completely honest, the graphical power of all three systems is enough that any competent software studio can be as creative as they wish.
If studios (*cough*SONIC TEAM*cough*) fail to make good games, or games that are creative and fresh and new, that's THEIR fault, NOT Nintendo's (or Sony's or Microsoft's, for that matter).
As for you, Shagittarius, explain to me how the de-evolution of gaming is a bad thing. i'd argue that, in fact, it's a very good thing for the industry.
Shagittarius @ Jun 15th 2007 2:29PM
"Think about it. When you see the kinds of people who play games like Halo, you don't exactly see the hard-core crew you speak of. Just people who think that characters with cheesy one-liners like master chief are awsome. If you were to ask me, I'd define that as the same kind of crap you see in movies and TV, not to say that it's a bad game, I enjoy a round of Halo every so often, but I think you're missing the point of expansion."
Those games your talking about are universally acclaimed. Acclaimed by hardcore gamers and reviewers who know a good game. The kinds of games the Wii put out are mostly universally panned, and those are the kinds of games casual gamers buy. Casual game driven market is a recipe for shit games pure and simple. bring on the movie lisences and same old tired gameplay...just make me move my arms to play it instead. Lame shit.
"On a more serious note, it's amazing how frightened these industry types are of a future where they'll have to prosper by using creativity. They've spent the better part of the decade folluing graphics-whores into believing that pretty polygons equals a great interactive experience, and as a result the techies, not the artists, are in control of most of these companies"
If you can name me a single game on the Wii thats more 'creative' than any game thats been out before I will stick a wiimote up my ass. You can't, beacuse they are not more creative, they are the same old shit watered down for the casual gamers with waggle controls. Again, pure crap.
"in a year or two the motion controls will be so refined it will be impossible to play 360 or ps3 games because they will FEEL more primitive."
That comment is so misgudied, the tech used in the Wiimote is very primative and will not get any better than it was when it was released 10 years ago by microsoft and ignored by everyone. What Nintendo will get better at, is fooling people into thinking the controller is doing more than it really is. Then again a lot of people are easily amused by card tricks so I don't doubt people will fall for it.
"Bought it in January. Last played it in late March. Biggest console disappointment ever."
Bought mine in November and its been on 7 times since December. What a joke.
spikepoint @ Jun 15th 2007 2:33PM
@ Shagittarius:
A lot of the hardcore made the same proclaimations when Sony brought the Playstation to market, (and again when Squeenix brought RPGs to the masses with FFVII,) and while the idea might be sound in theory- it's not entirely realistic.
There will always be money to be made on the core gamer and so they will always be represented in the marketplace. Even if the game shelves are flooded with 'Hannah Montana's Mini-Gamez 4 Girlz' there will still be a market for games anywhere from Gears of War to Disgaea. As long as we put money into the industry from these games, they will continue to be made.
In another light, the existence of films like War of the Worlds has not stopped films like Brick from being made.
Craigo @ Jun 15th 2007 2:33PM
34: Wow, some games don't work well with motion-control? Well, that's it. If not every game for the Wii has good controls, it must be doomed.
After all, every game with a traditional scheme controls perfectly.
Craigo @ Jun 15th 2007 2:34PM
38: Madden, Godfather, and RE4 are all better on the Wii.
Not just good. Better. Early word is that Scarface and Metroid continue this trend. The remote is just a better way of controlling games, now that companies are actually taking time to implement it sensibly.
But wait - they're not HD. And for graphics-whores, that's all that matters.
Careful now - you don't want to get that remote stuck up there.
JodyAnthony @ Jun 15th 2007 2:35PM
"I said to have fun NOW, as in right when you buy it. After a while it sucks."
I bought it launch day, and I still think its VERY fun. I also bought/got a PS2, PS1, SNES, NES, GC, GBA, DS, and PSP at or near launch and..i know this may sound crazy..they are STILL fun! Imagine that.
Dale @ Jun 15th 2007 2:37PM
"How much value can developers and creative folks get out of this wrist motion two years from now, or 5 years from now, or 10 years from now? ... How can they design products that aren't too derivative of what's already out there?"
Ask Electronic Arts. They've been whoring the same basic games for over ten years with no slowing of sales.
Geist @ Jun 15th 2007 2:39PM
I think it's obvious that, when it comes to video games, no one knows what the hell they're talking about. Gamers are often too biased to know what's left from right, analysts have their heads so far up their asses that they're lucky to be right a fifth of the time (if that), and even companies aren't sure which way the winds will blow.
Jon @ Jun 15th 2007 2:40PM
Well if he is right then we are in a whole heap of trouble. How much value can developers get out of wrist motion? Well how much can they get out of button pressing? I am not saying one is better then the other but is sounds as if he is saying everything that can be put in a game has already been done. If the only way we can advance gaming is by pushing graphics then we have already seen everything there is to do in gaming.
Maybe that is why all first person shooters are starting to look the same to me, PS3, 360, or Wii.
I hope there is some young developer ready to take this guys job now that he is out of ideas beyond pushing graphics.
Myke @ Jun 15th 2007 2:41PM
Yeah, he's totally right. Novelties wear off really quick and people hate them. Remember the DS? What a lame gimmick, a touch screen! Wow, I mean honestly how many games can you come up with that use a touch screen? No wonder nobody is buying the DS anymore....wait, whats that you say? The DS is on a fast track to becoming the most widely distributed and best selling piece of video game hardware in the history of the industry? ......oh..... =) Gotta love the PR guys!
2-D @ Jun 15th 2007 2:41PM
Don't you think that gamers will eventually get sick of graphics? To me, there are gamers who are sick of just graphics now and there are gamers who will be down the line.
The whole super realistic graphics thing will eventually wear off. (Its just eye candy)
How long do you think graphics can wow a person? The same goes for movies. People are going to want next gen stories, next gen writing, next gen character development, next gen music, etc.
I mean, super realistic graphics can only take you so far. Don't you think gamers are going to get sick of it? I'm already sick of it.
There's too much concentration on graphics and not on other things. That's when the Wii comes in. It’s something different and it’s not using super realistic graphics to get you to play. What happened to fun? Now it’s all about trying to get a rain drop, to look a real rain drop. How is that going to help the game play?
But then again, I could be wrong. Gamers today care about graphics more than anything else. It’s on the top of there list. But look at the PS2 and Dreamcast.
Companies are still making games for it. I think the Wii can last just as long as the PS2 has, maybe longer.
student @ Jun 15th 2007 2:42PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again. People who are complaining about not playing anything on their wii, you might want to try buying a game or two for.
Here's some recommendations for you to play:
Trauma Center, Excite Truck, Zelda, Super Paper Mario, Rayman Raving Rabbids, Elebits, WarioWare, Godfather, SSX Blur, and Sonic And The Secret Rings.
Only two of those games are mini game collections and I promise you you'll get plenty of hours out of the other titles (well, except maybe elebits but its still hot). And before anyone says it, the only game on that list that can be found better on another system is Godfather and the Wii controls really helped the game.
My god, how so many people were able to get "tired of their wii after 1 month" blows my mind. Do you do nothing but play games all day? In which case, how are any of the other consoles treating you better?
mcr @ Jun 15th 2007 2:43PM
I think Nintendo's made a big mistake by not significantly ramping up the supply of these things. I have been wanting to buy one since they launched but I would never stand in line to buy this or any other console. I figured by February at the latest you could walk into any retailer and pick one up along with a 12 pack of coke. By now the shine's gone for me and my interest has dropped to nearly zero. So maybe if they start becoming plentiful and I can grab one for $150, I'll grab one, if only for Wii sports, Tiger Woods '08, and maybe Madden/NCAA '08 - IOW, stuff that can take advantage of the motion controllers. None of the other titles look interesting to me at all and the barely last-gen graphics capabilities are becoming more of a turn off.
SoulBlade @ Jun 15th 2007 2:45PM
I think casual gamer is a bit of a tough term to define for some. Most people who bash the wii equate it to anybody who plays only mini games or whatever. Tons of casual gamers play Halo - it's a simple pick up and play game that you can play for like 20 minutes, and put down. Same for GTA - tons of people have fun blowing up shit and not even doing the missions. WTF does it mean to be a hardcore gamer these days? Does it mean you like pretty pictures? Only focus on single player experiences? Play games a certain hours a week?
Poisoned Al @ Jun 15th 2007 2:46PM
If I could have found a Wii 6 months ago, I would have bought one... but I kinda glad I didn't. Not now at least. Unless some more interesting "hardcore" titles come out, I might get a 360 instead.