A valiant attempt to get Xbox 360 failure rate answers
by Alexander Sliwinski 
{ Jun 16th 2007 at 10:00PM }
Highlights from the interview after the break
Some examples:
Q: Your returns as a category. Is there any No. 1 reason for a return?
A: There are no systematic issues. The vast majority of the people just love the product, have a great experience with it. When there is an issue, we get on it and address it as quickly as possible.
Q: I've heard varying accounts of what is considered a normal return rate. Some people say that 2 percent is normal. Sometimes 3 percent to 5 percent is considered normal. Back to that question, can you address whether you are within those rates or within a normal rate.
A: We don't disclose the actual number.
Q: What explains this anecdotal evidence that it's out of whack, compared to the Wii or the PlayStation 3 or other consoles.
A: I would go back and say the vast majority of people love their experience. We continue to go back and address all of these issues on a case by case basis. There is a vocal minority out there. We go off and try to address their issues as quickly and as pain free as possible.
Takahashi keeps drilling Holmdahl and attempts every imaginable angle to get a straight answer -- all attempts fail. He ends the interview saying to Holmdahl that he believes the quality of the Xbox 360 console is the "critical issue for this whole generation." Holmdahl responds that "customer happiness" is one of his top responsibilities. Remember everyone, as Peter Moore said, don't focus on the Xbox 360's failure, focus on its repair. Should we ever expect to hear the truth about the Xbox 360's failure rate?
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
kingofwale @ Jun 16th 2007 10:06PM
Love it. This is what a good journalist should do, MAKE them answer the question they don't want to answer, and keep hammering on it. :)
and you wonder, if they have nothing to hide, why not release the 'actual number', after all, didn't stop them from releasing 'shipped' number, did they? :)
Funny how this turn into "We will only release numbers beneficial to us", What happened to full-disclosure?
LTNK @ Jun 16th 2007 10:12PM
If they could just say, "Listen. This is the second piece of major hardware we've ever made, so we honestly don't have as much experience as Nintendo or Sony. Yet not even they can foresee every problem. This industry has never worked that way. But we do admit that the system has problems, and will help you fix those in any way we can, especially since it will help prevent problems with the next system," then we would be a bit more understanding.
Dirk Dorkelson @ Jun 16th 2007 10:13PM
"Q: You guys did get rid of Wistron. Was that related to product quality?
A: We didn’t get rid of Wistron. It was a voluntary decision between the two of us. We try to run as efficient as possible. With our supply base the way it is now, two high quality contract manufacturers satisfy our needs."
This is a great question. When they made that move, I wondered whether it had anything to do with quality. Too bad the answer is a non-answer.
Also, to the first poster, who said this:
"and you wonder, if they have nothing to hide, why not release the 'actual number', after all, didn't stop them from releasing 'shipped' number, did they?"
I don't think I've ever seen any company release failure rates or how many defective units they've manufactured. It'd be foolhardy to do so.
Imadogg @ Jun 16th 2007 10:20PM
Well whatever the failure rate is, it's too much. I had one Nintendo. I had one Super Nintendo. I had one Nintendo 64. I had 2 Xboxes. I'm on my 3rd Xbox 360.
One of my friends is on his first 360 since launch. Another is on his 2nd 360. Another is waiting for his 2nd.
As much as I love my 360, this is too much.
Viridium @ Jun 16th 2007 10:20PM
People (or companies) who have nothing to hide, hide nothing.
I do agree with Moore etc in the sense that I know things go wrong. I don't mind so much if something breaks, so long as the company takes measures to make the experience as smooth as possible.
However, if there is an abnormally high failure rate,(and I'm already on my second console), than while it's still noble to take care of the customer, that wouldn't be necessary if the product was not shoddy to begin with.
Judd @ Jun 16th 2007 10:23PM
Voilà! In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran, cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of Fate. This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is a vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished. However, this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation, stands vivified and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin van-guarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition. The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta, held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous. Verily, this vichyssoise of verbiage veers most verbose, so let me simply add that it's my very good honor to meet you and you may call me V.
Moe @ Jun 16th 2007 10:26PM
I don't see why people love their 360s so much. It's a white good. Literally.
William @ Jun 16th 2007 10:27PM
Damb this guy is GOOD he should run for president. I read the whole interview and he did not answer a single question not one even though they were all very direct. Its a while since i have seen such an interview that is quite as bad as this one.
Matt B @ Jun 16th 2007 10:34PM
They would never release the number because it would effect sales.
Noxat @ Jun 16th 2007 10:36PM
We'll hear the truth when someone manages to throw together a class-action lawsuit.
LTNK @ Jun 16th 2007 10:37PM
"They would never release the number because it would effect sales."
Imagine if Sony had given the full rate of disc read errors on the first runs of the PS2. They might have stumbled in their lead. As it was, they fixed them, and we know how well the system turned out.
Harold @ Jun 16th 2007 10:43PM
The 360 is the biggest piece of crap that I have ever bought. I loved it for a year, then it died and I had to spend $140 to get it fixed. My replacement just died out of warranty and MS thinks they're doing me a favor now by knocking 25% off the repair cost so I "only" have to pay $105 for a replacement. This is not how you treat a customer who lined up to buy you P.O.S. console on launch day!!! I can definately say that this is the worst purchase of any kind that I have ever made. As long as I can avoid it I will never buy another MS product of any kind. They treat their customers like crap and their product is pure garbage! My 360 just sits in the corner of my appartment doing nothing. I had to put a blanket over it just so I couldn't see it because every time I glanced at it my blood just started to boil. I am so pissed about this entire experience I don't know what to do with this piece of garbage. I wish I had never wasted my money on this crap and got something decent like a Wii or a PS3 but I just couldn't wait. And really, every time I hear some MS exec not being truthful or avoiding questions it puts me off even more. These people ARE NOT addressing the issue and the customer servicxe IS NOT satisfactory AT ALL!!!! These people make me physically sick. Sorry, I have to go throw up just thinking about this smug S.O.B. Todd Holmdahl sitting around saying how great the 360 is and thinking that they offer customer service of any kind. He and Microsoft can both go to hell!
copa @ Jun 16th 2007 10:43PM
Holmdahl: "There is a vocal minority out there."
Exactly. The failure rate is 47%, so that makes us a minority. We need to shut up and just send in our repair fees.
LTNK @ Jun 16th 2007 10:49PM
"Exactly. The failure rate is 47%, so that makes us a minority. We need to shut up and just send in our repair fees."
I would hardly call such obvious bashing as even .47%. I know there are a lot of anecdotes, but those don't prove any numbers better than that interview.
cheese @ Jun 16th 2007 10:51PM
I have to hand it to Microsoft for making the extra money on consoles that already cost $400. I am fortunate my 360 has not crapped out yet *knock on wood*. I never had one problem with my previous xbox or even my launch day PS2.
Spilt_Milk @ Jun 16th 2007 10:51PM
Isn't there some federal law that requires a recall if they admit a certain % failure rate?
Dirtyboy @ Jun 16th 2007 10:58PM
My 360 just died today, thank God I bought the store's extended warranty.
caramelzappa @ Jun 16th 2007 11:05PM
Harold, that's what happens when you're an early adapter. The first versions of almost any product in the tech industry always have a higher rate of failure and terrible errors that aren't fixed until months later. That's why a lot of us wait for the product to be thuroughly tested for bugs and shortcomings so that the company has a chance to fix these before we buy. If you're an early adapter to almost any product, you get the product before anyone else, but I don't think the price you pay is worth it.
LTNK @ Jun 16th 2007 11:11PM
caramelzappa, get your logic out of this place. This is a bandwagon. LEAP ON ALREADY!
Ninegauger @ Jun 16th 2007 11:12PM
Just fess up and fix it...
Does anybody remember how Sony dealt with their widespread CD Read Error problem?
LTNK @ Jun 16th 2007 11:15PM
"Does anybody remember how Sony dealt with their widespread CD Read Error problem?"
They denied it completely until there was a class action suit. Yet they did fix it after about a year after the US launch.
mrnimblewick @ Jun 16th 2007 11:21PM
It's not fair to say that if you purchase a launch day symstem and it fails that you should have to pay $140 to get it repaired. When you purchase a product, ANY product, you have a right to have it work. (Heck, my launch day Wii had graphic glitches and they sent me a new one before mine was in the mail.)
Microsoft should be reported to the government for screwing their customers over this.
Borat @ Jun 16th 2007 11:22PM
The 360 has been a fine machine so far but this failure rate has disappointed me, especially the fact how MS admit it doesn't happen that much.
I don't have a 360 myself, but my friends who bought the system have had some kind of problem at one point or the other. One had a 360 which was working fine for the first 4 months and he was kind of gloating at our other friend, but then his broke too.
I am NOT buying a 360 until MS takes care of this serious problem. IGN has also had a lot broken in their offices.
pman @ Jun 16th 2007 11:29PM
I work in the industry and can say that the failure rate of systems purchased within the first few months is very high. Out of the people I know, it's probably up as high as 60%. Some are on their 3rd or 4th system. I am on my second.
Genital Ben @ Jun 16th 2007 11:31PM
@20
How did Sony fix it? When I called with the problem they wanted 169 bucks to fix.
Red Ringed @ Jun 16th 2007 11:35PM
@18
I intentionally waited over a year before buying a 360, with the purpose of waiting until they "worked out all the bugs" in manufacturing them first. Bought mine in late December 2006, and it was dead by mid-May 2007.
I have owned gaming systems all my life, including the original Xbox, the Sega Dreamcast and Genesis, even an Atari 2600 way back in my childhood, not to mention a Falcon Northwest gaming PC. I have never had even one of these machines die on me, even when I was an early adopter, until the 360.
It would be one thing to just shrug it off and say the law of averages has finally caught up with me. But it seems I have too much company in this to chalk it up to that alone.
Whether you bought early or late, it doesn't matter with this system. So forget the conventional wisdom on early adoption here. MS screwed up, not the buyers' timing.
Lets just hope they can learn from all these failures, and finally get a handle on the problems.
DWells55 @ Jun 16th 2007 11:34PM
"Q: Can you say anything about the yield? Do you have a good yield? Can you say anything about the yield?
A: The important thing here is that each product that comes out of the factory is rigorously tested. To ensure highest quality for our customer."
I have a hard time believing this, seeing how my 4th Xbox 360 arrived in the mail and booted immediately to the three red lights. You can imagine how pissed I was to have my "repaired" 360 be DoA. Anyways, I'm on Xbox 360 number 6 at the moment. Look, I love the 360 and the games, but I'm 100% dissatisfied with Microsoft support and their obvious lack of quality control.
Werbal @ Jun 16th 2007 11:36PM
Nothing short of a class-action lawsuit will get Microsoft to even ACKNOWLEDGE this failure problem.
And it IS a problem.
Frankly, its shameful that such an expensive product is sold with such a high rate of failure. Microsoft DESERVES to be sued for knowingly selling a defective product.
LTNK @ Jun 16th 2007 11:38PM
DWells, you might have my sympathy, if you gave us actual proof. I'm no fan of Microsoft, but this is starting to look more and more like a bandwagon, considering how many of you on the web are so unlucky to have so many 360s in a row break down.
Hence, I don't believe you have that many broken, and in fact believe you are exaggerating, just because it's fun to troll on the web.
ChrisBo @ Jun 16th 2007 11:44PM
I only own a Wii and wanna make either a Wii60 or PSWii combo. I wanted a PS3 'till I saw the price. I wanted a 360 (god, that Live sure is tempting) until I heard 'bout all these failures. Of course, I want all the systems, but I'll prolly get a 360 before a PS3 'cause of the price and the fact that 360 has more games right now. But these failure rates... c'mon, Microsoft. Do something so I can become another loyal customer!
theGreenGrunt @ Jun 16th 2007 11:45PM
LTNK - Im on my 4th box also. 2 xbox 360 machines that had red lights and one 360 with a dead DVD drive. 4th machine is still kicking. but i dont trust it so i bought a 2nd xbox as a back up. stupid eh? now if one dies i replace it with my back up and send the bad one in to be fixed. no down time.
Burnt Meatloaf @ Jun 16th 2007 11:47PM
If the repair rate is really this high, why wouldn't Microsoft dump another hundred million or so into getting a 65nm contract sooner? Surely they could get parts from *someone* for less than what they are paying in bad publicity?
ill trooper @ Jun 16th 2007 11:48PM
"WAS THE TOAST BURNT OR WAS IT NOT BURNT?"
"I will only say that the family continued to love their breakfast experience. I can not speculate as to why the toast was left on the plate."
-
We got our answer last week when it became common knowledge that refurbed models had an added hardware heatsink - there would no reason to do that if everything was fine, would there? The original design was flawed, and Microsoft is instigating a quiet update. All while refusing to actually discuss it.
I can understand, they would be fucked if they acknowledge it.
But just so you know Microsoft: now we know.
DWells55 @ Jun 17th 2007 12:00AM
LTNK, the only proof I have is that before I send in a 360 for replacement, I remove the faceplate to keep as a souvenir. The new unit always arrives with a faceplate on it. Would you like a picture of the faceplates? Most people wouldn't have a bunch of OEM 360 faceplates for no reason.
Pete @ Jun 17th 2007 12:06AM
LTNK
Are you really as moronic as you sound?
"Hence, I don't believe you have that many broken, and in fact believe you are exaggerating, just because it's fun to troll on the web."
So if MANY people report having repeated failures, that makes NOT believe there is a quality problem?And if FEW people report having breakdowns, that would convince you there IS a problem, then?
I love the logic of fools! These fanboys are less likely to beleive there is quality problem the more they hear about it. And the ONLY thing that changes their mind is when it happens to them.
LTNK @ Jun 17th 2007 12:10AM
Damn bugs making me quadruple post. >=(
And it's not the number. It's the fact that it's the number mostly on message and posting boards. I have seen a lot of those where people jump on bandwagons that have little to do with reality. Thus since most of the anecdotes of breakdowns are from suspect sources, not all but most, I find the majority of the sources suspect.
In other words, I think there are breakdowns, but I also know about people on the web willing to lie just for fun.
DWells55 @ Jun 17th 2007 12:10AM
Nice posttacular, LTNK. I asked if you wanted a picture, and you respond by ignoring me and talking about people making stuff up.
LTNK @ Jun 17th 2007 12:13AM
Those posts were from glitches, that made it look like I kept having to sign in over and over again, and not those posts are apparently gone.
As for a picture, how will I know those came from repairs, and you didn't just buy them? If there is actually an exclusive faceplate for repairs, then you have something resembling proof.
Imadogg @ Jun 17th 2007 12:14AM
LTNK, I too find it hard to believe someone can be on their 6th (HOLY CRAP) 360, but fuckin a, before I knew it, I was on my 3rd (in a 1 year span). I guess it could be true. I sure as hell know if my 360 kept breaking I'd keep on getting a new one (for free) with my Best Buy warranty.
That's the best way to go. As soon as it dies on you, go to Best Buy, return what doesn't work, keep what you want (HDD), and go home with a new 360.
DWells55 @ Jun 17th 2007 12:15AM
Do they even sell the stock faceplates? Furthermore, why would I waste money on 6 of them?
Imadogg99 @ Jun 17th 2007 12:19AM
Hahaha yea why would anyone waste money on 6 faceplates. Do you have to pay everytime though or you get em all free?
I have my receipts if anyone needs proof... though I probably won't care enough to scan em and post...
Pete @ Jun 17th 2007 12:21AM
"Thus since most of the anecdotes of breakdowns are from suspect sources"
Obviously this is total complete and utter BS, and you are a tool for saying it. The reports of breakdowns (including multiple breakdowns) come from a vast array of reliable sources, such as reviewers, investors, industry journalists. That's why reporters are asking these questions. The vast majority of people reporting breakdowns are telling the truth.
Imadogg99 @ Jun 17th 2007 12:26AM
Seriously, I'd hope IGN wasn't lying about broken 360s...
Ryan @ Jun 17th 2007 12:28AM
I bought my 360 on January 28 and have had no problems at all so far. So does that mean I'm one of the lucky ones or what? I hope some of these stories are exaggerations because they're making it out to sound like buying a 360 is like playing Russian Roulette with five bullets.
DWells55 @ Jun 17th 2007 12:32AM
Okay, so I dug the faceplates out of my closet and apparently I only have a total of 5. I must have sent my first one back with the faceplate still attached. If anyone cares, here's the 5 of them: http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/5932/faceplatesgu6.jpg
Wii360dsPC @ Jun 17th 2007 12:34AM
Of the four people in my office that have 360s, all four of us have experienced in warranty failures of the hardware. Fortunately, no one has had to pay any out of pocket expenses.
The service is solid, but you're going to be waiting a couple of weeks. In that sense, it's flawed. If they're going to send us a refurbed box anyway, can't they just ship the refurb to me and allow us to ship the dead console back in the box it came in. I think the community would be willing to have Microsoft put a credit card hold or deposit to be back gaming as soon as possible.
Locke Wiggin @ Jun 17th 2007 12:37AM
It's a simple PR thing. By REFUSING to answer the question, everyone immediately expects the worst. Since they won't come out and say it it's clearly well over the 5% mark.. A lot of stores based on returns estimate more like a 20-30% failure rate. Based on New's numbers, the ammount of systems warrantied through them that get sent in hover around 12% but that number is by hearsay, so I can't say if it's true or not. And it seems to be the first round of systems that are sucking it up.. That first 4,000,000 or so systems.
sheppy @ Jun 17th 2007 12:41AM
@LTNK
How would you know all those faceplates weren't simply purchased?
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/catalog.aspx?st=&g=206000000&s=0&p=1&c=10
Microsoft doesn't make the standard white faceplates for sales. AKA, only way to get one is from a new machine.
But you do realize the consoles being sent out to consumers ARE refurbished machines, right? You're not paying $140 for all new goods. They take the broken, fix it till it works, but the defect is still there, biding it's time. So when I hear a story like "I'm on my fifth," I can believe it, and relate, because I am on my fifth. And as Microsoft redistributes faulty consoles, is it soo strange to believe such streaks considering the source? Now if someone told me they got 4 ringed from a store, I'd doubt it (Unless it's Walmart, who HAS been caught repackaging faultly 360s). But considering most of these people are getting their machines from a stockpile of hazardly repaired defective consoles, it's not sooo much of a stretch. No companies trust their refurbished machines. If you want evidence, look no further than Nintendo.
A gamecube has a 90 day warranty, a refurbished has a 30 warranty. DS has a one year warranty, refurbished 30 day. Makes you wonder...
DWells55 @ Jun 17th 2007 12:46AM
sheppy, when I sent my DS Lite in repair for the hinge crack issue, my replacement came with a one year warranty. I was quite impressed. Go figure that my properly-treated DS Lite got the hinge crack, but my friend who abuses his handhelds hasn't had it happen yet. Guess I'm just a defect magnet.
LTNK @ Jun 17th 2007 12:54AM
sheppy, the refurbishing comment clears things up. Saying you are on your x 360 machine makes it look like you had to buy x 360s, not simply have the same one repaired x-1 times. This was part of the problem I had with the comments.