Kutaragi officially retires from Sony

@Mr Khan

Not sure I'm following why the percentage of total market effects what I'm saying. The reason I was bringing up console numbers was to show the impact Sony had on gaming. (Mostly for the people that drink too much Nintendo kool-aid)

If we look at total market we have:
SNES: 49
Genesis: 29
TG16: 10

Total: 88 million

Then:
PS1: 102.5
N64: 32.9
Saturn: 9.3

Total: 145.1 million

(I left out some of the system that didn't sell too well)

Sony dramatically increased the gaming market.

@ cc123

As you know the SNES wasn't the only major player in that gen so you seem to be deliberately scewing the facts in order to forward your argument. Mr Khan's post pretty much sums up the numbers over those gens. You can insult me all you want but it wont change the fact that you have failed to make a dent in my argument. IMO opinion resorting to calling somebody names is a clear sign of weakness.

@ sheppy

Look at the number of patents filed next to products released based on those patents and you'll see that there is a huuuuuuge disparity. The motion sensing in SIXAXIS is pretty basic and has been around for years so why did Sony only let dev's in on it at the last minute if it had been a part of their early plans for PS3? The only logical explanation of course is that it was a rush job and a direct reaction to N's strategy with Wii.

The PS2 launched in 2000, a year after the patent was filed, why no motion sensing in PS2 pads? Even after Sony releases it's consoles they're not shy in adding new functionality to their pads, ie. thumbsticks, rumble, & soon rumble again so why not motion-sensing? We both know the answer to this question but only one of us wants to hear it.

@BiggerBoat

"As you know the SNES wasn't the only major player in that gen so you seem to be deliberately scewing the facts in order to forward your argument."

Can you direct me at which facts I'm skewing?

"You can insult me all you want but it wont change the fact that you have failed to make a dent in my argument."

You argument was asinine from the start till the end. All I did was call a spade a spade.

Ken Kutaragi: great hardware engineer, terrible executive.

That's all I got to say.

"Look at the number of patents filed next to products released based on those patents and you'll see that there is a huuuuuuge disparity. The motion sensing in SIXAXIS is pretty basic and has been around for years so why did Sony only let dev's in on it at the last minute if it had been a part of their early plans for PS3? The only logical explanation of course is that it was a rush job and a direct reaction to N's strategy with Wii.

The PS2 launched in 2000, a year after the patent was filed, why no motion sensing in PS2 pads? Even after Sony releases it's consoles they're not shy in adding new functionality to their pads, ie. thumbsticks, rumble, & soon rumble again so why not motion-sensing? We both know the answer to this question but only one of us wants to hear it."

Actually, this patent lead to many rumors about PS2 being tilt based in their controllers and since this patent was filed before PS2's E3 debut, and rumors were circulating about a "leap forward" in controller design, it was a reasonable assumption. Too bad the leap forward equated to analog buttons.

But if we ignore the PS2, jump forward to the PSP. When Mercury Meltdown was shown intially, it featuring a tilting dongle. This dongle, of course, would eventually be cancelled but it was the first public appearance of that fateful patent. And then PS3 debuted and Ken Kuturugi kept saying the controller was not done and that there were more suprises in store. Even Kaz was kept in the dark to the extent that he wasn't even allowed to touch the boomerang. But these rumors stayed relatively unknown compared to "LOLZ Boomerang controller sucks!" I was expecting Tilt in the PS3 controller since it's a patent they'd been sitting on for 7 years. But as someone else pointed out, the tilt is only part of the Wii's controller and a not unheard of part either. So I wouldn't consider PS3's inclusion reactionary but rather evolutionary.

And you can call me completely in denial or whatever, but I am amused that DS is the first touchscreen system and WiiSports is the first time we've played games like that. This of course assuming people ignore Game.com, PlayTV, and Xavix. A role which Nintendophiles fill beautifully.

Nintendo is NOT the master of invention, but rather the refiner of it. Nintendo crafts some damn fine games. But their innovation nowadays goes as far as making a stew.

@ cc123
""As you know the SNES wasn't the only major player in that gen so you seem to be deliberately scewing the facts in order to forward your argument."

Can you direct me at which facts I'm skewing?"

You posted"You just tried to discredit the impact that the PS1 had by showing the NES numbers. Lets look at all the the numbers for that time:" Then only posted numbers for the SNES that particular gen when the Genesis sold almost as many units thus almost doubling the combined installed base for that gen and making the disparity with the PS1 gen much less significant. You most definately didn't "look at all the numbers".

I at no point claimed that the PS brand didn't have a big impact on gaming, I'm saying that it didn't bring gaming to the mainstream like you stated in an earlier post. If the DS or Wii goes on to sell 50% more units than the PS2 will that mean thay have brought gaming to the mainstream? Of course not, it's been there for a while. Feel free to ignore my points and insult me though, it makes you the bigger man!

@sheppy

"Actually, this patent lead to many rumors about PS2 being tilt based in their controllers and since this patent was filed before PS2's E3 debut, and rumors were circulating about a "leap forward" in controller design, it was a reasonable assumption. Too bad the leap forward equated to analog buttons."

So we've established the tech was easily implementable(if that's a word?) so why wasn't it used in the PS2? What makes the PS3 so much better suited to tilt than its predecessor?

"But if we ignore the PS2, jump forward to the PSP. When Mercury Meltdown was shown intially, it featuring a tilting dongle. This dongle, of course, would eventually be cancelled but it was the first public appearance of that fateful patent. And then PS3 debuted and Ken Kuturugi kept saying the controller was not done and that there were more suprises in store. Even Kaz was kept in the dark to the extent that he wasn't even allowed to touch the boomerang. But these rumors stayed relatively unknown compared to "LOLZ Boomerang controller sucks!" I was expecting Tilt in the PS3 controller since it's a patent they'd been sitting on for 7 years. But as someone else pointed out, the tilt is only part of the Wii's controller and a not unheard of part either. So I wouldn't consider PS3's inclusion reactionary but rather evolutionary."

Why would you expect it after 7 years when it hadn't been used in either of it's previous 2 consoles? If something's a great & viable idea you'd think that it would be prudent to get it out there as soon as possible not wait the best part of a decade. You even state that they had it up and running on PSP so why was it ommitted? Sony evidently didn't think it was a worthy inclusion in 2 of it's previous systems so what happened between it's decision to pass on tilt for the PSP & include it with the PS3? I'm thinking of something along the lines of a hugely well received move into motion sensing by Nintendo but that's just me. You also have to concede that dev's not knowing about tilt until very late in the day implies that it hadn't been part of Sony's plans for very long. Heck Wii devs knew about the Wiimote way ealier and N are notorious for being secretive.

"And you can call me completely in denial or whatever, but I am amused that DS is the first touchscreen system and WiiSports is the first time we've played games like that. This of course assuming people ignore Game.com, PlayTV, and Xavix. A role which Nintendophiles fill beautifully."

I'm not ignoring them, to be honest I've never heard of them & I'm willing to bet the average gamer hasn't either. Again, my point is that N innovates in the mainstream gaming arena where there's a lot of money at stake and taking risks can sink you. I don't doubt that Sony has some awesome, innovative ideas going on behind closed doors, it's just that the string pullers don't have the balls to take a risk on them.

"Nintendo is NOT the master of invention, but rather the refiner of it. Nintendo crafts some damn fine games. But their innovation nowadays goes as far as making a stew."

If you look at my earlier posts I state that N is not an inventive company but innovative, there's a big difference. You could say that they make stew but surely you'd also have to concede that they consistently add new ingredients, most of which are quickly implemented in the other cook's more traditional recipes.

Looks like Kutaragi could have used a little Smykowski:

"Well-well look. I already told you: I deal with the god damn customers so the engineers don't have to. I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people. Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?!"

From the eurogamer article on Ken:

"However, his contribution to this industry, and this medium, is undeniable."


Load times for video games?

@BiggerBoat

"Then only posted numbers for the SNES that particular gen when the Genesis sold almost as many units thus almost doubling the combined installed base for that gen and making the disparity with the PS1 gen much less significant. You most definately didn't "look at all the numbers"."

The PS1 sold more than that entire generation combined!! And I did post all the numbers, look at #51 above. You can look at the numbers up, down, left, right, they all prove my case.

"I at no point claimed that the PS brand didn't have a big impact on gaming"

BULLSHIT. You tried to play off the PS1 and PS2 sales numbers by saying they were just part of normal industry growth. So what you say here is complete bullshit.

As far as it being mainstream somebody already mentioned that the PS1 took gaming out of the hands of just video game nerds and expanded it to different areas of the population. This is what taking video games mainstream means.

"Feel free to ignore my points and insult me though, it makes you the bigger man!"

And stop acting like a wounded puppy. If you say things that are beyond stupid on the internet somebody is gonna call you on it.

@ cc123
"The PS1 sold more than that entire generation combined!! And I did post all the numbers, look at #51 above. You can look at the numbers up, down, left, right, they all prove my case"

So theoretically if one generation is made up of 3 consoles that each own a third of the market then a single console dominates the next gen, lets say with 100% of the market and sells 50% more than the installed base of the previous gen that console has brought gaming to the mainstream? I think that is a nonsense and if that is the case surely the NES or Gameboy can claim a similiar feat?

And my comments about your scewed numbers were aimed at your earlier post, #44 I think, & the numbers in #51 dont prove that Sony brought gaming to the mainstream, ever heard of Tetris?

"BULLSHIT. You tried to play off the PS1 and PS2 sales numbers by saying they were just part of normal industry growth. So what you say here is complete bullshit."

I believe you are referring to my below statement.

"Well before the PS1 came out the Gameboy had moved 70 million units, & the NES 60 mill so I think it's safe to say that gaming was already mainstream before either one of your examples released so I dont see where you're going with this point. The PS 1 & 2 sold more but is that particularily surprising consisering the VG market generally grows with each new gen?"

Saying that the the console's sales weren't particularily surprising due to an expanding market doesn't = me saying that PS didn't make an impact. I still feel you underestimate the growth of the world's economy and as a result the number of people who can afford to spend on luxuries.

You seem to pick and choose which of my points you respond to. I'll make this point again, if the Wii or DS significantly outsell the PSs does that mean N has brought gaming to the mainstream? I mean how many times can it happen?? The NES, GB, PS, PS2 each surely furthered the acceptance of gaming in the mainstream but surely to say that 1, particuarily one of the latter ones was responsible for mainstream adoption is just....well, dumb.

The likelyhood is that overall the installed base of gaming consoles will be significantly larger this gen than last and N will likely play a big part in that, will you then 5,6, or 7 years down the line post on these boards heralding N as truly delivering gaming to the people???

Can you honestly say that your views are unbiased and without a clear agenda to 'push' the PS brand?

Huh...wonder if it's anything like when Jeffrey Skilling resigned from Enron and then just a bit later Enron declares bankruptcy. No SONY makes money..just not on the PS3. Hah fanboy flamewar fodder.

No sales numbers don't necessarily mean it's mainstream. I already explained what mainstream was in my post above. Nintendo does seam to be expanding the market to the casuals but I wouldn't even know what to call that at the moment.

"I still feel you underestimate the growth of the world's economy and as a result the number of people who can afford to spend on luxuries."

WTF?? The total market grew from 90 to 150 million and according to you it was due to economic growth....for fucks sake.

You seem to be looking for any angle you can find to downplay the effect the PS1 had on popular culture.

"Can you honestly say that your views are unbiased and without a clear agenda to 'push' the PS brand?"

Actually my comments were more directed at knocking Nintendo off the pedestal the N-hive puts it on.

Thanks for the PS1 PS2 look forward to the PS3 price drop...



Thanks Ken, but it was time for you to retire.

I guess poor old Kenny just got plain fed up with being fired out of the 30th floor window at the boardroom meetings all the time and took his gold watch and Lambo and went back to his old job sweeping up fishheads in the Tokyo fish market.haha.

@cc123
"WTF?? The total market grew from 90 to 150 million and according to you it was due to economic growth....for fucks sake."

I have said already that the growth of the global economy played a significant part in the succes of the PS1 gen but the system also made an impact which also factored in its sales. How much clearer do you want me to be?

I wouldn't be surprised if you believed the Ipod brought music to the mainstream, then again it wasn't made by Sony so maybe not.

I'm beginning to realise that a mature debate with you is not possible. Good luck fulfilling your dream of taking down the N-hive or whatever you call it.

Something Every Sony Fan Should Realize:

Nintendo invented gaming you douches! Without Nintendo, your preeecious Playstation brand wouldn't exist! Nintendo innovates everything! Ever heard of the D-Pad? Ever heard of RUMBLE? Ever heard of the three-pronged controller? Sure no one has adopted that style from the N64, but Nintendo did it first!

Without Nintendo, all you losers would still be playing with your willies! Because Nintendo invented EVERYTHING!

Something Every Nintendo Fan Should Realize:

Nintendo did NOT invent gaming, and the only reason why Sony made a video game console in the first place was because Nintendo dicked them over. Well, looks like the fucks shot themselves in the foot on that one because after that Sony has consistently kicked Nintendo's ass! Take that you italian midget-loving Wiitards!

While you losers were waiting for your crappy, three-pronged N64 nonsense, I was playing my gangsta rap music on my PS! Then, when the PS2 was released, I was watching MOVIES man! Sony has done more for the video game industry than any other company. Just look at it now, I can play BLURAY videos man!

To all fans of VIDEO GAMES:

This is what I hate about consoles. If nothing else, Nintendo and Sega gave birth to the idiot fanboy. Before all this shit went down I was playing Commander Keen and Duke Nukem on my ancient DOS PC, and I was playing Pitfall on my Atari 2600. There was no fanboyism back then.

If anything, the real "innovation" with Nintendo and Sega was idiotic fan loyalty. Then Sony took that (oh my muthahf%^#ing gawd, Sony even copied Nintendo on that!), and launched it to new heights.

If only the video game community were so enthusiastic about the GAMES as opposed to the systems and the companies. Oh well, that's politics I guess.