No political influence in Manhunt decision says BBFC

LOL@Pinnochio

Lets see its 6:35ish,under 5 1/2 hours til midnight. Yeah, you guys can probably squeeze in another 8 stories about this.

Well i live in the Uk anyone got some sites where i can import the game?

"but if they haven't, that feels like a double standard."

Haven't you heard? Hostel had what they call "artistic value", therefore it was protected free speech. Everyone knows video games have no value, they are just sucking our will to live!

@4

Your kidding me, right?

Ok, what about Saw, Saw 2, Saw 3, and whatever number of sequels they make.

I know people who know people, who kill people based on stuff on the movies.

They certainly can't ban movies, can they?

Even crazier here is that Jekyll, Casualty and Doctor Who get the saturday afternoon slot on BBC1. BBC1! Jekyll being a bit intense by BBC standards, Casualty getting ever more realistic in their gore dept and Doctor Who having the highest body count of any fictional TV show!

Yes double standards.

Though it's probably all down to the interactive nature of games.

Yeah, can't say it's entirely a double standard. There is a difference between passively watching a violent act, and pantomiming a violent act. Which isn't to say it should be banned, but comparing it to hostel is apples and oranges. Or if not apples to oranges, oranges to tangerines.

To be fair, the BBFC is independent of the government. Although I do not agree with this ban, I always thought that there are one of the most capable video game ratings board. They did defend Bully when there was a violent games hysteria among the British tabloids and some politicians (it was rated 15).

You don't have control of the environment and directly interact with the gruesome act being performed such as in Saw and Hostel. So I fail to see how its a double standard.

Also, Joystiq, the biased meter is on its way to the moon. You complain so much about the unfair treatment the press gives video games, but you aren’t proving to be strong journalists here.

The Pinnochio graphic implying the BBFC is lying is a bit unfair. There's no reason to doubt them, and frankly my opinion - as an Englishman - is that they do a good job!

Oh, and I agree with the Manhunt 2 decision!

@#7, Jay:

What the hell are you talking about? Doctor Who and Casualty are both shown in the evenings.

What exactly is the story here? How many times do I have to come here and tell you people that we TRUST THE BBFC! I don't care how screwed up the ESRB is, the BBFC WORKS and there is NO STORY in saying that politics played no part in their decision because we knew this already - it's an excellent organisation that sets an example for other ratings boards around the world.

@ Crackjaw

They are not journalist, they are bloggers who report on video game news. There is a huge fucking difference fuckwad.

Also, what would you rather have? A kid that plays Manhunt 2 who will not hurt anyone in real life or a man that is desperate for drugs so he takes a knife and goes out to kill you for your cash.

Your choice.

@ 14

What ever they are they are being hypocritical.

Also

"Also, what would you rather have? A kid that plays Manhunt 2 who will not hurt anyone in real life or a man that is desperate for drugs so he takes a knife and goes out to kill you for your cash."

WTH is this? I have no idea what you're trying to get across? Are you saying that kids will ethier play Manhunt 2 or turn into drug crazed killers? If that was the case then let them play Manhunt 2 all they want, but I doubt that is the case.

I'd have to agree with previous comments here; this article seems full of implications and assumptions that the BBFC has somehow done something wrong.

If anything their lack of rating for Manhunt shows they have standards; the current criteria by which movies, games etc. are judged simply doesn't cover what is in the new Manhunt.

If Rockstar wants to push the boundaries beyond what the rating body can judge, a body that has judged such movies as Hostel and Saw (both of which keep getting quoted despite not being interactive; which is obviously a major factor in a game rating), then they'll have to face the backlash.

Violence can be an great asset to a game, and is very welcome. Violence, however, should not be the game itself.

"We don't know if movies like Hostel or the other hardcore horror movies have been banned in the UK, but if they haven't, that feels like a double standard."

Yeah, and it would take so much trouble to actually do some research instead of inflaming the situation.

Whether you agree with the BBFC's decision or not, shouldn't the gaming media at least to try to behave sensibly over this and not do an inverse-Thompson.

Hostel was rated 18 in the UK

The BBFC have played Manhunt 2 and I doubt anyone posting in any of these threads has.

The BBFC are not a bunch of US-politicos or puppets of UK government. In fact they've regularly come out in support of the games industry. They're not even scare-mongering over Manhunt, just doing the job they've been doing for nearly a century. And treating games in the same way as they treat films.

There are Hostel 2 ads on TV at the moment, we just saw one on C4 about 15 minutes ago, so I'd say they were screening it. I'll be going along with my Wiimote, and replicating every single gory violent action in the film as it happens. CENSOR THAT BBFC!!!

The strangest thing is, in the UK we pride ourselves on being that bit more liberal and open minded about controls over media. Im surprised that we're banning a game that will be available to adults in the US, which (to us, at least) has a much more conservative outlet on media.

Before, I kind of wanted to play this game to at least get something made for my age group on the wii, now I HAVE to play this game, even if it is purely to exercise what i feel is my right to experience whatever media I should want to. This game is bound to get an eventual UK release, I just hope we don't end up with another SNES Mortal combat.

-Reid.

What I can't understand is, why is Manhunt 2 being banned, when Manhunt 1 wasn't? And yet, every 'gory' horror film released recently (Hostel, Saw, etc) hasn't had a problem coming out in cinemas.

I also don't know why the British Board of FILM Classification still has final word on GAME ratings? Shouldn't someone else be put in charge of that?

In any case, all this decision means is rather than buy the PS2 version, I'll import the PSP copy from another country.

Try stopping THAT, BBFC.

I don't understand why some of you find that the BBFC is worthy of being put on a pedestal that is higher than those of similar entities especially with this situation.

MoominBiscuit -

Did you even read the statement issued bey the BBFC?

"Although the difference should not be exaggerated the fact of the game's unrelenting focus on stalking and brutal slaying and the sheer lack of alternative pleasures on offer to the gamer, together with the different overall narrative context, contribute towards differentiating this submission from the original Manhunt game. That work was classified '18' in 2003, before the BBFC's recent games research had been undertaken, but was already at the very top end of what the Board judged to be acceptable at that category."

This really blows my mind. I don't live in the UK, but if I did I'd be furious that someone I didn't even elect has the power to decide what is appropriate for me. I'm not adult, I have a few more years until I legally am, but I can imagine I'd feel at least little concerned that soembody can decide things like that without my concent. If they're going to censor depictions of violence in games such as Manhunt 2 (Which I'm sure is completely extreme, even unneaded in some cases, but doesn't mean it should immediatly be banned), then they have to censor all similar depictions of violence. It does seem like a double standard though.

This game is no doubt morally deplorable.

What I don't understand is why people are defending the complete banning of speech, no matter how disgusting it is.

And to think, not so long ago, I complained about too much Halo 3 coverage....

Wow, a lot of needlessly angry people here today.

Thing is the shows I mentioned are on before the watershed so my point still stands, any age can see these. They're not on during "adult hours" tucked away at 11pm.

Thinking about it, I'm just pissed off that Americans get to play this and we don't. Not fair!

-Reid.

Now I might have to buy TWO copies of this game, and mail one to one of my wanker brethren! This is bull.

i'm not being funny or owt, but what's the problem? Rockstar (as much as i love them for their previous titles) were bating ratings boards to see what they could get away with with manhunt 2. and this is exactly what they wanted. no wonder they cut a deal with jack thompson beforehand (and that guy's a crazy).

yes hostal 2 is just the same but who thinks that a film of torture porn is a good thing for anyone? if you enjoy seeing other human beings being tortured and brutilised then i think theres bigger issues going on than whether a game's banned. if you dont see you carrying out 'physical' (wii) acts of violence as a bit weird as entertainment then you're surely missing a few screws. the BBFC hasn't banned anything mainstream in a few years and they are very seperate from any polictical viewpoint. They didn't even mind hot coffee, disregarding it as part of GTA:SA and said it'd make no difference if it was part of the final game. Manhunt 2's not been played by oneone else outside of rockstar and the BBFC and other ratings boards yet, so why judge them beforehand? we all know it's a game about hunting down and killing people in horrific ways. it doesn't surprise me at all. what does is the likes of hostal and saw etc where it's somehow acceptable to allow people to pay to see real people ripped apart in the most brutal ways imaginable for 'entertainment' and although not as visually convincing in practise, games should be treated with the same seriousness as film if we're ever going to be considered a mainstream form of entertainment. if they banned it it's probably for a good reason. there's a difference between getting a gun in a game and shooting 'people' to that of hunting down a person and mutilating them for gratuitous 'pleasure'

Reid,

The US has a much more liberal policy on violence, I've seen violent films on at 2pm in the afternoon over there, but they have a much more conservative view when it comes to things like showing people taking drugs or similar.

Some shows on in the UK really shock some Americans.

If the BBFC have banned this then it must be pretty bad, not many games get pulled over ratings so it probably needs toning down a bit.

I don't get the references to free speech, its not a game about talking as far as I know.

The BBFC rarely bans everything, and while ot can't please all people all the time, it does a remarkably good job.
(we had none of the hassle with GTA or Oblivion cos they were rated correctly first time around).

Also, an 18 certificate (like AO/NC17 in US) doesn't mean kiss of death for a product over here, as shops still continue to stock them.

Good job BBFC...

sorry, meant "rarely bans ANYTHING"

16. "Violence can be an great asset to a game, and is very welcome. Violence, however, should not be the game itself."

Amen to that. IMO games like this are doing more harm than good to our fair industry. BBFC are alright by me.

When it comes to questionable content, the UK is more fussy than the US over violence, but less so on everything else. I admit that I havn't played Manhunt 2, so I have some faith in the BBFC (since they generally do their job well) that the desicion was justified. Especialy since, like they said, there was no political or media hype about the game.

Please, please, please American commenters, understand that the UK has a different concept of what constitutes free speech and that such plurality of ideas is a consequence of our democratic choice.

We have free speech. We are not oppressed. Our definition of free speech just differs from yours. The BBFC has the support and confidence of the public (as many comments on here from Britons are a testimony to).

Clark says,
"We are independent of government..."
"We've rejected this game so you can't buy it legally in the UK."
==============================

OK... So how can a private organization ban anything?

I don't know why people are so outraged. For years haven't we been inundated with europhiles bragging about the superiority of their nanny-state governments over the sink-or-swim style found in the US? Haven't our "american" celebrities been instructing us for years to behave more like the collectivist europeans because of its inherent superiority, and haven't they been successful in getting millions of gullible Americans to parrot their every word?

I'm glad that Manhunt 2 was banned in the UK and I hope it spreads because it's so damn funny. Those people love their nanny-state governments so they should all should sit down and shut. After all, their nanny-state government has declared it "harmful"! You can't have it both ways eurolefties: either you can live like an animal in a zoo or you can be an individual. You can't pick and choose when you want to be a collectivist and when you want to be an individual, and this situation proves it.

"We don't know if movies like Hostel or the other hardcore horror movies have been banned in the UK, but if they haven't, that feels like a double standard."

C'mon. How on earth is it double standards??? they clearly have a specific set of criteria for videogames and another set of criteria for films. Just because the two don't match your own criteria for both it doesn't logically follow that there's any double standards at play at all.

"I'm glad that Manhunt 2 was banned in the UK and I hope it spreads because it's so damn funny. Those people love their nanny-state governments so they should all should sit down and shut. After all, their nanny-state government has declared it "harmful"! You can't have it both ways eurolefties: either you can live like an animal in a zoo or you can be an individual. You can't pick and choose when you want to be a collectivist and when you want to be an individual, and this situation proves it."

LOL at simplistic, binary thinking. watch out for all the strawmen! :)

How many people here work at the BBFC or know how the ratings system works with regards for video games? Also look at the language used, everyone is throwing around the word "ban" which has a very pejorative bias. While they essentially have banned it, did they "ban" it in a fit of moral outrage or did they find that they could not fit it into the available ratings using the criteria they have. The former certainly sounds like it's bad while the latter hardly conjours up an image of a fascist UK. Like it or not I'm sure most people would agree that things need to be rated and in extreme cases prevented from being distributed. snuff films anyone? there has to be a line and some people will think it's too high and some will think it's too low. And with all this comes beurocracy... the ratings available finish at 18!! 18 years old (only 18, that is young!!!) is the upper threshold and clearly this has shown that it has an upper boundary in their criteria. Has anyone stopped and asked "if there was a higher rating above 18, would this game have successfully got a rating?". perhaps we do need a higher rating for games like Manhunt 2!
Anyway all I can say is at least the BBFC haven't made companies re-rate games because a third party user hacks nipple textures into the game

I'd rather have a nanny state government than an American style one.

Yeah, it sucks having unelected officials telling you what you can and can't do, but i bet it would be worse if they were elected, then they would be looking out for thier constituency

Generally, their constituency isn't hardcore gamers