Rockstar's Manhunt 2 rejected by UK ratings board

DocR, come off your fucking anti-united states bullshit. you are no better than anyone else because you were born in a different country, you ass.

Never though I would see so many Jack Thompson supporters on this web site.

@ DocR

Pssst. I hate to break it to you but...Manhunt 2 is a fictional game. The events and characters, even the locations, do not exist. Nobody was hurt in making the game nor is anyone is ever hurt in the game. It is all virtual, there is nothing wrong with harming virtual people. You know that, you play the FPS's. Do you give a shit about the guy you just shot? Do you wonder about Enemy #512 kids and wife and that you took away the father figure and income maker in the virtual home of his family? Nope. Why? It is not fucking real.

This might be a revelation but it is true.

Taste is defined by the individual, the only time when taste can impede the way of someone is when it harms physicaly another human being. Real Life Rape, Real Life Murder hence are wrong.

Note that your fucking Magna Carta document did not prevent a lot of shit that happened in the UK that had no redeeming qualities what so ever. Jack the Ripper survived, I rest my case.

Oh, and if you know what is waaaaay worse than Manhunt 2 that has caused much slaughter and rape thought centuries, I elect the ban of this book:

http://www.evilbible.com/

"Yes, an NC-17 rating in the US means that a lot of distributors won't carry the film. However, for a movie as big as South Park, I don't think that would have been an issue."

Apparently for a game as big as GTA:SA that was an issue. Regardless of who you are, a NC-17 or AO rating is a de facto ban.

Jody,

I agree, you have the right to not play something you do not have an interest in. But is it right to tell someone else that they cannot play something because you do not like it? That's the big issue here.

Thank you, BTW, for not condemning the game as a sucky bit of software because you disagree with the themes. That is a mindset I wish most of the US (and the world for that matter) would embrace.

I am quite frankly bored to tears with racers, but I will never condemn the Gran Turismo franchise as a set of crappy games because of it. I also think that customizing cars is one serious waste of time, but who am I to say that the people who spend hours and hours on their Forza cars are wrong?

It's all about choice and personal accountability people. We've made it all to easy for others to make choices for us and to blame others when we actually do choose and choose poorly.

@DocR

So why does the BBFC get to decide what's "artistically to morally" redeeming? Hell, why does a work have to be either in the first place? The public should have the right to decide that in either case. I'm all for ratings, but I'm against outright bannings.

@Farseer

You keep complaining about people saying the frist game was rubbish without giving reasons, yet you have hardly given any reasons for anything yourself. All you've really said is you respected R* for taking a step in a different direction. You never gave any reasons why you liked/disliked the game itself or why you didn't finish it.

"But is it right to tell someone else that they cannot play something because you do not like it?"

absolutely not. I even stated before that I dont want to play the game, but banning it is stupid.

lol, speaking of censors, hi joystiq...

This game can't be that bad. Every time a film or game is hyped to be gory or graphic, it usually turns out to be just like any other gory/graphic game or movie out there. Who reviews this stuff, little old church ladies? Rockstar & Ninty must be grinning ear to ear from all the FREE publicity.

New NGamer review 92% rating, that combined with IGN praise is making me glad that I pre-ordered it. :)

http://computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=166229

Why I liked Manhunt:

- It was not a standard 3rd person shooter (with generic special ability added)
- Because you had to take so much time thinking about your next move and analyzing the behavior of your target(s), the suspense level was extremely high when you moved in for the attack. But, if you let your nerves get the best of you and over-reacted, your plan could fall apart. On top of that, (with a good subwoofer), the heartbeat got louder and quicker as you got closer... it was, at times, a surreal experience.
- To go back to the first point, because of this, you could never rush into a room, kill everything that moves, then move to the next room... rinse and repeat. The game required thought.

Why I didn't finish Manhunt:

-I honestly find it hard to finish most games anymore. With my library spread across so many systems, and my time spread entirely thin with work, home, and family, I play what I can, when I can.
-I have to admit that it got really hard towards the end. I recall playing the same sequence 8-10 times, without success, and putting the game down for a bit. Unfortunately, new games were released, and I never got around to picking it back up.

Why I will probably buy Manhunt 2 for the Wii (reviews pending):

-Though I love my Zelda, Mario, and Metroid, I'm really looking forward to something with some teeth. That way, when I have a friend over who decides to go on the whole "kiddy" rant, I can have at least something to counter it with.

Wow, that was the longest post I've ever had here. :)
I didn't realize I was taking up so much real estate. Sorry all!

No prob Farseer (I've seen much more windy posts), thanks for the info. I didn't play the original because I thought it looked generic but it sounds interesting. I might have to take a look at it, but I'm definitely going to grab MH2 for Wii.

I'm floored that some people on this site are supporting the BANNING of a work of free speech.

I don't know about you, but I would NEVER trust the government enough to have them tell me what I can and what I can't see.

I think that while they may have a point in banning the game outright because of its content (from what I've read, the game revolves around killing and torturing people in imaginitive ways for no reason other than "because you can" - and the Wiimote's controls don't help that argument), it might also have something to do with the fact that the previous Manhunt game was villified by the UK tabloid press for ostensibly contributing to the murder of a teenager. Never mind that the *victim* owned the game, not the killer; never mind that both were under 18 and shouldn't have been playing it at all; it got blamed. And the BBFC are thinking they're acting in the best interests of the British public by banning the second game.

Footnote: There is a higher rating than "18" - it's called "R18", and is reseverd for hardcore pornography. Films rated R18 can only be sold in licensed sex shops. Basically, the highest rating for violent content is "18".

After all that, though, I have to add (as is obvious in this thread), that Manhunt is certainly not for everyone. I had to play when my wife was either sleeping or not home. She couldn't stand the game.

It's funny because she likes horror movies and I don't. How about that twisted logic. :)

I guess there's a difference between those who like to act and those who like to be acted upon...

I really have to say this as I've said it in every Manhunt 2 thread so far.

First, where is Rockstar's creativity to make anything but bloody and violent games? Midnight Run, Smuggler's Run, Beatarator, Tabble Tennis? Oh wait, those don't count because it shits all over the usual rants. Also, Night Trap remains the only game to be banned in the US.

Second, the first Manhunt was awesome. You need strategy, you needed a goal. It was not a simple mindless killfest like people labeled it as. As the game got further, however, a focus on guns occured and the action became frenzied and panicked rather than subtle and nerve racking. And to get the full experience, you had to plug a headset in. I remember one time, finally got a guy that took me forever and as I applauded myself, I alerted others to my presence. Not to mention the random disturbing things that would be whispered in your ear.

And finally, I'm done defending Manhunt 2. Seriously. While the game appeals to me, it's because it has more of a psychological impact (little clue, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE DISTURBED BY THIS GAME), it's not for everyone. But while you blatantly give this one up to the censors, remember this stance you've taken. Because once they have one victory, they'll USE that victory to obtain others. And in five years time, we're in the same boat as Germany, playing shooters against robots or zombies and splurting green blood because red is TOO much. And you ignorant bastards will have given that to them. In Europe, we see Gran Turismo being blamed for car accidents. Think we'll avoid that here?

Farseer, quick Q for ya. Have you played the 360's Condemned? That game was similar to the way I've heard Manhunt described; lot's of murderers to silence, lot's of scripted jumps, etc.

Honestly, this news brought the game to my attention. I went from a rent to a buy, as long as it doesn't get panned by the critics.

I mean, Eternal Darkness, Condemned, and Metal Gear Solid are three of my favorite games and this sounds like a healthy combination of all of them!

Thank you sheppy. Your post was poignant and insightful, as always.

When I saw the title I knew the comments weren't going to disappoint.

=)

Carry on.

@ Sidepocket...again.

I agree completely that there is a definite line between video games and reality. However, especially for children, videogames and other media depicted realistically can provide a strong influence.

As IGN reports, the Wiimote really allows you to do some gruesome stuff that shouldn't be done by anyone--especially children.

If our current system of keeping extremely-violent videogames away from children (and others who shouldn't have it) was sufficient, I wouldn't be arguing.

The real problem may not be totally the casual sadism of manhunt, it may be in part that games are interactive especially with the wii version where you can mimic stabbing someone or choking someone. I don't understand why gamers are getting so defensive over such an obviously excessively violent game.

There are stupid parents who would buy manhunt 2 if their kid sees it on a shelf in a game store without a second thought. Banning this game from the shelves makes it that bit harder for it to get in the hands of minors.

I felt the BBFC was right in banning this game. It is actually a very fair board and total bans of this kind rarely occur. They must have felt justified in their decision after playing the game. It is probable that rockstar made the game even more graphic and violent than the first to get ever more PR. I don't feel it would set a precedent in banning violent games I just feel that Manhunt 2 may have pushed it too far to stop a spiral of games in the manhunt trend.

As for those adults who really want to play the game, they can always get it from amazon etc. Whats the big deal?

Personally I trust the BBFC.

This is hardly a slippery slope, they are well known for being immensly open minding about things they look at and are rarely swayed by public pressure (not being a government organisation etc), from everything I have heard of them in previous articles it would appear that they work tirelessly on each submission to try and get them rated. Manhunt 2 must be pretty degenerate to fail absolutely, without any suggestions for cuts.

People can whinge and moan about free speech, but ultimately the system is in place to protect the majority and it does a good job of that, numerous articles tell of skeptics being shown stuff that was cut out of movies etc and being hugely offended and glad they went. In addition free speech, does not, atleast here in the UK, give you the right to say absolutely anything you want, and unfortunately there are very few places that is the case.

There are plenty of organisations that get things wrong over here, but the BBFC, in my opinion, is rarely one of them. Sucks to be you if you wanted to buy this game but here is the crux, import it, or don't, you don't have a god given right to play this game, a panel of people who's job it is to look at these things has decided that, regardless of all options, it is beyond a certificate, and these are the same people who let Saw etc into our cinemas, I can hardly think they're jumping on the censorship at all costs, nanny state bandwagon...

Ash

"Ahh, beautiful, spoken like a true Nazi.
You're right... not everyone deserves freedom... only ones we agree with...
Hitler would be proud."

If this were the government doing this, then I would be worried, but I am not, because it is an industry body (this is ignoring other problems with your Nazi comparison, such as the subversive nature of the Nazi regime and racist aspects to it which do not exist in the BBFC, and the nature of the body as a controller of media products compared to the Nazis, who were a political party, and ideological group. In other words, you're talking crap).

I don't care that they've banned it, since I would never want to play this game and can't understand why anyone else would, but I don't think it was a wise decision to, it was a reactionary decision, especially considering the number of torture porn movies the BBFC let through.

This isn't a terrible breach of free speech really. Night Trap got banned (or effectively banned) in the US, at that was the only case. Here in the UK this has been the only game to be permanently banned. One game. That's it. If it happens again within the next year, we will have cause for concern, beyond that a pretty sick game enjoyable for dubious reasons at best has been banned for reasons that are partially understandable, lets face it.

There are more important things to be worried about in terms of human rights: Guantanamo Bay; US Patriot Act; UK Anti-Terror legislation, you know: IMPORTANT issues.

"People can whinge and moan about free speech, but ultimately the system is in place to protect the majority"

I thought the notion of free speech was intended to protect the minority? You know, the speech of those who would otherwise be ignored and discouraged by the majority?


"tell of skeptics being shown stuff that was cut out of movies etc and being hugely offended and glad they went. "

Who cares if they were "hugely offended"? Is causing offense reason enough to remove material from an artist's original work? If the artist complied, to get a better rating or to reach a wider audience, that's one thing, but outright censoring is another.

"you don't have a god given right to play this game"

Just as you don't have a God given right to read a book, view a piece of art, view a play, listen to a work of music, or watch a film? True, I suppose, but I'd like to think I have a state-given right to do so.

Maybe we should have just banned the statue of David.

Of course you could get it from an Amazon based in one of the free countries in the world. Just make sure not to wave it in front of one of the 10 video cameras on the street between the post office and your flat.

contact_the_bbfc@bbfc.co.uk

Tell the BBFC what you think

ATTN DOCR:

There are NO US CENSORS. I REPEAT, NO US CENSORS. You mentioned the South Park movie and Team America-those were judged by a RATINGS BOARD, who decides what RATING to apply to the movie. The scenes that were cut were cut BY THE MAKERS OF THE FILM in order to get an R rating from the ratings board. It works the same way with video games, except it's a different organization called the ESRB. NEITHER OF THESE ORGANIZATIONS HAVE THE POWER TO BAN ANY CREATIVE WORK. They can only rate it more harshly if certain elements aren't cut. You may insult the US, but I'm glad that I can view all mediums of entertainment and art without them being cut off by censorship groups.

Will the game have English audio in France?

wow, that sucks, i was actually looking forward to dusting off my wii to play this. I hope the rest of europe doesnt follow suit, importing would be nice.

"4. The BBFC do their job very, very well and are not the puritanical, religious zealots that run the US censor. In general, they pass almost everything and work hard with the creative forces behind films and games to ensure that they can be released.

I think the BBFC have done a wonderful job here. Censorship and free speech are not mutually exclusive, despite what some naive morons on the internet think."

Speaking of naive morons, you do realize US has probley the least censorship in the world. Even if the govn't wants it, the courts always shoot it down.

The original Manhunt never appealed to me but with lots of great write-ups in respectable magazines I was looking forward to a 'grown-up' Wii game. Sadly it looks like those plans are scuppered and importing seems my only option which is a shame since I will not be able to (term used loosely ;oP) enjoy this game on the Wii but will have to buy it for the PSP.

Since the Import will be very easy using sites like play-asia or eBay I doubt the BBFC will stop the dedicated people from getting this game and in a way that is a perverted form of justice.

On the upside Blue Dragon has been localised!

vidGuy,

I haven't played Condemned yet, but I plan to. Unfortunately that doesn't mean that I will. :(

I've been playing games as early as the Commodore 64 and Atari 2600, and this is the greatest time in history to be a gamer. The only problem is that there are too many good games and not enough time...

"Sucks to be you if you wanted to buy this game but here is the crux, import it, or don't, you don't have a god given right to play this game"

Ahhh yes, the import train. I know it well. Except here's the problem. Of the three consoles that are getting the game, only the handheld is region free. So this means importers have basically 2 choices if they want to play this game.

1. Import the console ALONG with the game. Given customs, taxes, and all that rot, hardly an intelligent route unless you plan to become a heavy importer from the region in question.

2. Install an illegal modchip, void your warranty, and be labeled as a dirty pirate.

Remember kids, Region Free FTW!

This thread really made me show who the fucking communist are. Seriously.

If everyone banned everything just for bad taste and misunderstandings, then we would as commoners have virtually nothing of ownership or entertainment.

Also, Fuck the kids. Seriously they have parents right? Not to mention, it is only going to "help" kids not get Manhunt 2 not fully block them. I have seen kids forge Amazon.com accounts, if kids or anyone really wants something they will get it.

The important thing is for parents to supervise and explain shit to kids. I mean, as a parent, how do you explain to a kid that his uncle was murdered and that he will be never coming back?

Having laws like this are going to create lazy parents, the kids will then grow up on whatever the government feeds them and....look we are now all communist with little red books! Joy!

Good god, xenophobia is everywhere in this comment section. Far to much of this 'my country is better than your country' shit. From my point of view we are all fecked and under control of some sorts. Some countries censor games and other media thus blatantly showing oppression, others use things like free speech to lead you to think that you have more control than you actually have. We are all cogs in the machine so everybody get off your high horse, think about what little difference you make to the world and continue to carry out your subservient existence. It is so easy to whine and bitch on the internet or through discussion but hardly anybody follows through to their convictions. I know it's probably futile but meh, I'm going to actually do something about this contradicting the negativity of my own post ;).

@Sidepocket:
Don't think your parents explained enough shite to you in the first place.


Nintendo still hasn't shed its corny game image, which is the source of the much-shunned kiddiness BTW.

I was just about to say how much I disagreed with the decision when I realised that actually, Ive never played the game so how can I say they were wrong?

It might really be so bad that banning it is the right option. They don't ban many things so maybe they had a good reason.

I think the US cencorship system is worse. If your gonna give games a rating then at least make it illegal for people under the certain age to buy it.