Sony did not have a problem with an AO rated GTA San Andreas

Fuck ERSB! Fuck Jack Thompson!

There are a lot of violents games, even more bloddy than Manhunt... the AO rating is because Jack Thompson...

So Suda51 doesn't have a hope of selling games if he wants to make it "more violent than Manhunt 2".

Well here's the thing.

Nintendo doesn't license it. Okay, does that mean it won't work on the system? The game is 3 weeks away from release (a little late to be rated, isn't it?), so surely the game has been pressed and is ready to be packaged and shipped to retailers very soon. So if the game is pressed, shouldn't it contain all of the code that is necessary to run on the specified platforms? Wouldn't lockout keys already be implemented in the discs?

I may be way off, I'm just thinking here. If I was Take Two and my games would still play on the consoles, I'd go ahead and release the AO version now and censor down a new version for a M rating for release in the fall.

So Suda 51 doesn't have a hope of selling any copies of No More Heroes if he wants to make it "more violent than Manhunt 2".

Can they sell this unlicensed like Action Replays are?

Manhunt....art....that's a new one.

@ mstngo (#1):

GTA: San Andreas was not rated AO at the time of release. Only after the Hot Coffee mod was discovered was it slapped with an (temporary) AO rating. When this happened, production was halted until such a time as a solution could be provided.

I was criticizing most of Europe's decision to ban the game outright on a different thread.

I should have been praising it. At least they had the balls to come right out and do it. This de facto censorship is some sneaky shit.

In essence, the ESRB as reserved the AO rating to effectively ban a game without saying it outright. If a console manufacturer will not support an AO game, then the AO rating does not exist because therefore the game does not exist.

...Why would they actually kill the game and eliminate any chance of making money off of it when they could just re-tool it and probably make 99% of the revenue they were originally expecting?

Uh oh...Guess they better port this one to PC. As for the San Andreas comment, it was given that rating after release.

And to "oh boy" and the hordes that are sure to follow, I would hardly call Manhunt art. It is their right to deny playback. Why should they have to suffer all of the bad publicity and lost sales just because they supported a mediocre game with sadistic content?

They should just release the game with the AO rating and see what happens in the market. Anything watered down will lose the buzz that they've created and won't sell well with a lower rating. Stick to your guns and consumers will reward you with great sales even if corporations don't want to expose themselves to lawsuits (it isn't like they are trying to take a moral high ground or something). I say if parents want to keep this out of the hands of their children then they will need to take an active role in raising and controlling their child instead of leaving it up to v-chips and rating systems.

We all saw this coming. I know a lot of gamers are pissed but if Manhunt 2 is edited at least they would be able to sell it.

Yep they could, and they should.

Also I can't wait till Microsoft says "Hell yeah we'd allow AO, why the fuck wouldn't we!?!?!?!?"

They probably won't, but it would be cool for at least ONE of them to.

The world is so afraid of itself.

Sony will sell this thing because if I were Take Two, I would say I'll retool the game for the XBOX360 and release LA Noire and GTAIV as 360 exclusives. Sony isn't in a position right now to piss on a big third party developer and they would love for Nintendo to drop the game so you'd have to go out and buy the PSP or PS2 version.

Damn, meant to add that this could be viewed as a great plus for take two. Release a censored version, let the heat cool and then release an uncensored unlicensed version or uncensored PC/360 version or whoever will have it. Effectively selling more than they would have originally.

Maybe Sony's "currently" will be absolved to allow a Manhunt 2 release.

And what I find funny is that SCE does not allow the playback of AO games, but there is nothing stopping you from using the PS2 to watch Porn titles.

Hahahaha, BURN!

Time to replace the weapons with nerf baseball bats!

M rating and AO isn't that much different.

These companies are acting like babies just because they know the game might not hit most big stores because the AO is 'sooooooooooooo bad'

It's just stupid crap.

I hope Microsoft says they will allow the game because the differences between M and AO are basically nothing. Underage kids shouldn't even be playing most M games. An AO basically keeps them away unless their parents buy it... so in other words

M AND AO ARE BASIALLY THE SAME RATING

I don't want to say I told you so- but I've been saying for over a month (you can check the last bunch of Manhunt 2 threads) that Nintendo will not allow this game to be released on the Wii. Sony saying they will not release it is a little surprising, but they really don't need anymore bad press. Now obviously Take-two can edit the game down to a M rating, but this is getting blown so out of proportion (similar to the Imus situation), that I can totally see this game be canned all together and never released.

@15


I'd love for MS to step up and make such a statement, but who knows if they will.

Really, what the fvck is the point of all these AO and 18+ ratings if the game companies won't license them, many retailers won't carry them, and some countries outright ban them?

so much for Wii appealing to every gamer. What's the point of AO rating when consoles do not support them? Why not just refuse to rate it until cuts are made.

Farseer -

AO exists. The problem is, it only exists within the realm of personal computing, it seems.

HOLY CRAP Nintendo and Sony just sold 360s. With all this news and hype about Manhunt 2 and the only way to be able to play it is on 360. HAHA M$ will be crazy to not take advantage of this LOL.

If they do water the game down, I hope the uncensored version magically gets 'leaked' on the internet like what happened with Thrill Kill.

Why the hell not? What is the point of having AO if it basically means they have to tame it down to sell it anyway? It makes me sick that the ERSB, the retails, and Nintendo and Sony are collaborating to push this absurd censorship. I mean, it's fairly obvious that this title should not be in the same room as a kid, but there are lots of book, movies, and albums that also fit that description, and I can walk into almost any store and buy them. Most of the time I don't even have to prove my age. This is ridiculous.

I have a hard time being truly upset about this, since I'm not actually interested in the game itself. But as far as I'm concerned AO is an important rating that needs to be used, and games that get that rating need to be available for purchase by adults.

Who was that asshole that posted yesterday that an AO rating wouldn't stop adults from buying the game? How very, very wrong he was....

Wow. Looks like it'll be redesigned or something. Chances are they could have taken a hit with the UK banning and AO status in America. But to be outright cancelled. Eep

Even thought I will buy the Wii version even as M rated (Manhunt 1 was M rated and I loved it) but I must say...

RELEASE A PC VERSION DIRECT TO DOWNLOAD AO RATING! :D

...what a sad situation. Nintendo and Sony are pussies and freedom and art are becoming extinct very quickly in the gaming media... sad, sad, sad...

"And to "oh boy" and the hordes that are sure to follow, I would hardly call Manhunt art. It is their right to deny playback. Why should they have to suffer all of the bad publicity and lost sales just because they supported a mediocre game with sadistic content?"

I never said I thought Manhunt specifically was art, all I said was that art and freedom are quickly becoming extinct in the gaming world. The thing with freedom of expression/speech is that you can not be selective but you have to be fair and equal. So if you allow Manhunt to be banned based upon whatever aspect of its contents you open the door for many other titles being banned for their "questionable content". I may not like Manhunt or gravitate towards it's subject matter, but that does not mean that I find it right for it to be outright banned just because of some media/political hype game scapegoat hunt, as this will affect titles I might actually care about down the line... that's all.

I will only buy this game in its original version, rated AO, unrated, unlicensed, whatever. I will not buy a censored, edited version.

ooooooohhhhhhhh .. take that take two! you finally get whats coming to you for your past shenannigans.

the reason they wouldn't just release it is that there is almost definitely proprietary nintendo and sony code contained on the disks that allows them to play on the system. the license permits the use of that code, among other things. if manhunt 2 were just released without sony or nintendo's blessing, rockstar would likely be sued for copyright infringement and breach of contract because they would not have permission to use that code.

it would make for an interesting fair use case, however.

Anyone any idea of the legal ramifications if Take2 release an unlicensed version..? Doesn't sound viable to me tbh.

Bang goes my idea of getting it from France :o(

To everyone saying Manhunt 2 should be on the Xbox 360, I doubt it would work even if Microsoft allowed it. The game is being developed for weaker systems (the Wii isn't a 360, folks).

Even if the game WAS ported to the 360, they'd have to retool it to add Achievements and other Xbox Live shenanigans, and everyone would be whining about the last-gen graphics.

The game is going to get delayed and retooled. It would cost Take-Two too much to cancel the game at this point, and releasing it uncensored and unlicensed would provoke lawsuits from Nintendo and Sony, similar to Nintendo's suits against Tengen in the 80's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengen_%28company%29

@28

Agreed. The game companies, retail stores, countries (UK, Ireland, etc.), and media have already called us law abiding citizens guilty. Guilty of what? Who knows. The game hasn't even landed on shelves. Why do I feel like this is something out of Minority Report.

#2 - actually you can thank Senator Joe Lieberman for the ESRB.

#20 -

There are vast differences between M and AO ratings...

In it's current state, Manhunt 2 DESERVES the AO rating, at least on the Wii...when you start 'acting out' actions that kill individuals on screen (as opposed to pressing buttons.' that makes it considerably more 'gruesome' than others.

AO games are 'normally' reserved for porn titles and such, which are much different than your 'normal' M rated game. I dont' know of any other game (besides GTA:SA for a brief time) that has received an AO rating outside the porn industry...

There are considerable differences between M and AO. I for one haven't seen anything on Manhunt 2 (the first one was terrible and too sadistic for my taste), but from what I know of from the first game...the PS2 version should get a M rating, and the Wii an AO just because of the controls...

R* should slip the ESRB that $50 million to change the rating to M.

Honest question: Why do you guys want a game this violent?

Right about now would be a good time for Microsoft to step up and buy exclusivity, since T2 will lose money anyway. Maybe they can even parlay exclusivity on the the next GTA after IV as part of the deal?

Why is it when companies say they are "family oriented" it just means they make kiddie crap? Every family I've ever known had adults in it, so why can't Nintendo condone adult games? I thought the point of ratings was to inform, not censor.

"And what I find funny is that SCE does not allow the playback of AO games, but there is nothing stopping you from using the PS2 to watch Porn titles."

Ahh, that's another problem with corporate censorship; the sex/violence double standard. The thing is, Manhunt2 didn't get its rating for sexual content (thank goodness, I surely wouldn't watch a porn called "Manhunt") but rather graphic violence of the more sadisitc kind. Remember, not all violence is treated equally. Sadistic, remorseless acts of violence aren't and shouldn't be treated the same as violence commited by soldiers or police (heroes) acting in the line of duty. Some day there will be an actual, legitimate porn title that people will want to play, not becaus its porn, but because it's a good game. That game will get an AO and people (oblivious that "Adults Only" is pretty self explanatory) will complain that AO is too lenient because AO is for violence and decry that the game needs some kind of X/XXX rating. Because, for the most part it seems, people are idiots.

Andrew -

I don't at all. There's violent, and then there's overkill. Manhunt2 is overkill in my mind.

I'm not one to censor and deprive others of viewing/playing what they want. But Manhunt2 on the Wii, with that control scheme just creeps me out...

also, why are light gun games where you shoot people allowed? Pointing a gun at the screen using the wiimote as a 2x4. WTF is the difference?

"Honest question: Why do you guys want a game this violent?"

its not about wanting to play a violent game its about censorship.

This is simply ridiculous. The age of the average American gamer is increasing all the time -- so why can't we get a few games that are rated for adults?

oh boy,

I understand your point, and I agree that we need to watch our freedom and everything because there are those who would rather have us more "under their thumbs", so to speak, than running around choosing our lives.

But there are a few things to keep in mind here. One is that the ESRB is not the government. Two is that the businesses that don't sell AO games are not the government. Three is that Nintendo and Sony are not the government. They are all entities that don't want to sell, play, and otherwise support AO content. All consoles are "kiddy consoles" to an extent and can't afford to have this type of content. It doesn't matter if it is AO and parents should be responsible. You know how Fox, CNN, and their fearful followings will see it.

That is their freedom to do so. I could make a movies twice as bad as Hostel II if I wanted. I could have plenty of people that want to watch it. But if mainstream movie theaters like Crown and others say they won't show, rent, or sell that type of content in their establishment, their ain't nothing I can do about it.

If you want to make a really sick game, you need to use an open platform like PC and code it for Linux or something. Because Nintendo, Sony, and MS if they were put in the position will not allow the content to be displayed by their system.

Hell, Nintendo saved the industry by tightening down on what was allowed to play on their system. Sure, back then it was based on quality and not content, but still. The fact of the matter is that if you want to release "art" on somebody's console, it has to adhere to certain clearly outlined rules.

We need to be careful when we point and scream "you're taking my freedom a**hole!" We don't want to numb the complacent non-thinking sector of our population to our cries of true violations of our constitution and rights.

Man, all this controversy makes me really want to play this game when I didn't before. Damnit.