Pachter poses Manhunt 2 costing Take-Two millions

by Alexander Sliwinski on Jun 20th 2007 9:45AM

Industry fortune teller, Wedbush-Morgan's Michael Pachter, says Manhunt 2's freedom of expression will cost publisher Take-Two millions -- good thing Take-Two may have gotten that GTA IV advance money! Pachter believes the game would have generated $25 million in revenues this quarter, along with another $15 million in reorders. He sees three options for Take-Two at this point:

Ship the game the way it is.
Edit the game, bringing it in line with UK morals and the ESRB's M rating criteria.
Cancel the game.

Pachter believes canceling isn't a reasonable outcome. The other two options leave Take-Two with either lower sales because of the AO rating and the banning, or increased development costs due to the edit. Pachter guesses that either option costs the company half their potential revenue. He also goes on to say that this incident hurts the longevity of the franchise, which is funny for those who feel Manhunt 2 came out of left field anyway. Take-Two can probably cut their marketing budget by half, look at all this yummy free advertising. We already know FOX News has a story locked and loaded for public consumption closer to the Manhunt 2's July release.

Source

Tags: bbfc, ccfc, cost, manhunt, manhunt2, millions, pachter, PS2, PSP, taketwo, Wii

Reader Comments (40)

We have top execs crying about digital distribution and we are worried that one game won't sell if it isn't in brick-and-mortar stores?

I say, release it as is. I will be seriously pissed if they edit the game. Keep it AO, sell it online and in any store that is still willing to take it. Even if only the people I've seen complain about this "ban" buy it, the sequel is destined to have sales at least equal to the first game.

They've got a hit on their hands if they release it as planned. Editted, I don't know if this game is even going to be on the radar when it finally comes out. Capitalize on this, Take-Two.

Cancel the wii title only is the best choice.
Cos it is murder simulation game using with your arms action.

Leave it alone on PSP or PS2

Why don't they just do what the movie indstry does, release 2 versions? Have a standard, eddited version for sale where the current version is prohibited, and an uncut, unrated version for those of us who want to see this thing in it's brutal raw form. That way they can have the best of both worlds.

"Cos it is murder simulation game using with your arms action."

I can't believe someone on this form would spew those vile words. Why don't you kiss Jack's ass some more, hu?

"Cos it is murder simulation game using with your arms action."
Yes... cause pressing buttons to murder people is SO MUCH LESS VIOLENT than waggling a wiimote around.
Yeah. right. ok.

It is why I want to remove Wii version. I don't want Jack to get involve Wii world.

Bring more mini games!

"Cancel the wii title only is the best choice.
Cos it is murder simulation game using with your arms action."

That's by far the worst choice. The outcry is not the level of involvement in the action but the constant blood and killing.

Plus, who cares if it is murder simulation? Murder simulation does not a murderer make.

I'm all for keeping this out of kids' hands, thanks to an AO rating, but DO NOT EDIT THIS GAME. I think Steve's idea (two versions of the game) works, but only because those that want it unedited could still get ahold of it via online stores.

"Plus, who cares if it is murder simulation? Murder simulation does not a murderer make."

Never say it will lead to be a murderer.
But it will bring bad thing from outside view like JT or soccermom

2 versions would be a great idea. That's what Capcom did to avoid Japan's Z(?) rating

I don't understand, are the criteria for a game to hit ao unclear? Take-2 must have realized their game was close to this line. And if so, must have a contingency plan for how to proceed. They certainly have been in ao land before.

The threat of bad publicity or offending someone should not be reason enough to ban something, Baby21. Or do you disagree? Do you think the statue of David should have been banned, too?

I don't care how much JT (I thought you had an agreement not to say anything about Take-Two's games?) or others complain and worry. I hope this sells a million copies to adult gamers; it's about time the mass media is jolted into realizing that video games aren't just for youngsters anymore and that they don't have to be targeted at them to sell.

And if they releases as-is and still manage to sell well, it would have huge ramifications that could turn the industry on its head.

The main reason I want Wii to keep clear forever.

That's why I am worry this game that Wii will be spoil

But I won't mind if they edit this game into zombie world with green blood or not all.

and Jack Thompson has official won. He is not only a house hold name (admittidly mostly to people that come to sites like this and other internet locales, but also the media runs to him first) but he has also scared the bejesus out of the entire industry.

There is actually a Wii fan above me that says more mini-games, which I pray was sarcasm. The Wii needs this game (first Wii game I will have purchased since Cooking Mama...)

The Wii had me, I was telling everyone I could find how great the system was, but after on game after another having awful wiimote function all of the novelty has been sucked out. IF (big if) this game uses the Wiimote well it could get people like me reinvigerated for the future. Or they could drop it out of fear and insure that they only sell a 2 mario and 2 zelda games this gen.

Nintendo's online buyer's guide says the following:
"Please note that Nintendo does not sell or license games that carry the ESRB rating "AO" (Adults Only)."

Manhunt will be censored to an M rating before its release. In fact, the conspiracy theorist in me almost wants to suggest that Rock Star already have an M-ready version prepared and sent an outrageously-offensive version of the game to the ERSB purely in the interest of drumming up free publicity for the title. But I'm not sure how smart such a strategy would actually be...

Errr...I mean Take 2. Stupid mistake...

AO ratings just mean a parent can claim ignorance when their offspring looses it on society for their lack of parenting. Really, does a rating mean anything to a gamer? No. No changes will occur to the game. Take Two is in a bad karma situation now over screwing PlayStation gamers over the GTA IV m$50 million pay off. A franchise Sony largely built. Rockstar you have forgotten you're fathers. Now it's time to reap what you've sewn, REAP IT.

Gotta say this... show your support. Sign my petition.

http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/manhunt2

I only hope that Take Two stands strong and releases the game as it is. Get it into the hands of consumers in any way you can but keep the game. If they back down they are showing a sign of weakness to industry critics who somehow believe they have the right to limit what we can and can't play. Rockstar has been making videogames a long time and they know what constitutes a mature title. If they say the game should be rated mature, it probably should. Sure today its just Manhunt 2 but how long before they start putting AO ratings on Grand Theft Auto, Resident Evil and No More Heroes? Take Two finds itself at the front of one of the most important events ever to happen to this industry and its a responsibility they need to handle with courage. If they don't, we all lose.

@13 Ryan
"Nintendo's online buyer's guide says the following: 'Please note that Nintendo does not sell or license games that carry the ESRB rating "AO" (Adults Only).'"

We know that Nintendo does not make AO (or even M) games, but does license M games. Who says that R* really cares that it is "Officially licensed by Nintendo"?

Nintendo's website also holds this statement:

"UNLICENSED PRODUCTS
If a product does not carry one of the seals listed above, it is likely not licensed by Nintendo. Unlicensed products and accessories do not undergo Nintendo's testing and evaluation process. They may not work at all with our game systems, and they may have compatibility problems with certain games or accessories."

I really hope R* sticks to their guns and releases this game with the AO rating.

Oh, and on a side note, Baby 21, can you please just go ahead and admit that you're a troll? No one is that ignorant or linguistically challenged, except on purpose.

This game will be a classic.

@oldest gamer: "Really, does a rating mean anything to a gamer? No"

Actually, yes.

Does it mean anything to whether or not they will play it if they get their hands on it? No.

Does it mean they will be able to get their hands on it? Probably not. How many stores carry AO? How many of the major online stores carry AO? How many console makers will license AO games?

"Nintendo's online buyer's guide says the following:
'Please note that Nintendo does not sell or license games that carry the ESRB rating "AO" (Adults Only).'"

So is the whole "Nintendo consoles are for kids" criticism warranted?

For all of the people screaming about censorship, nobody's trying to ban this game in American (as of yet). The CCFC is simply trying to make parents aware so they can keep this game out of the hands of kids. I think we are all in agreement that no 7, 8 or 9 year olds should be playing this game...maybe no 14, 15 or 16 year olds either. With the AO rating all adult gamers that want this game can still pick it up. If you are over the age of 18 you shouldn't have a problem with it because it doesn't affect you.

As for the affect this game has on Nintendo and their image... I can see how this could be bad for Nintendo. A game rated AO can cause the critics and the causal gaming crowd to think twice but ultimately the decision to have this game released on their machine is Nintendo's to make.

@23: "With the AO rating all adult gamers that want this game can still pick it up. If you are over the age of 18 you shouldn't have a problem with it because it doesn't affect you."

Ok Charli3, just for the record, what color is the sky in your world, cause you sure aren't living in mine.

Trying to get an AO game is a nightmare, and very difficult even for someone well over 18. It took me several tries to get the AO SA, since places wouldn't sell it to me even though I'm well over 18 , my wife is well over 18 and there's no children in the house, ever.

An AO rating in america is just as bad as a ban in Europe, major online or store retailer will sell it, including Gamestop/EB games. I definitely wouldn't be able to find a copy in my town because thats all we have so its practically banned in America too.
The difference between an AO rating in America and 18+ in Europe is that Europe will sell 18+ games in any store, an AO rating in America wont sell well at all, if any.

"So is the whole "Nintendo consoles are for kids" criticism warranted?"

No. I ask you how many AO games any other console has released.

Go to the ESRB site and search all the AO games. Tell me how many you've even heard of.

If they change it, I will not buy it. AO rating is the reason I'm buying it. There is a market for AO rated games, but no one has the balls to go there.

@ 27

http://www.esrb.org/ratings/search.jsp

This is the point. The are only 23 games that have ever recieved the AO rating (mostly PC porn) and there are only two console games that ever recieved the rating. Thrill Kill which was never released and GTA: San Andreas which was quickly edited and re-rated. As Titus said a AO rated console game in America is as good as banned.

The two SKU's would be the only viable option for Rockstar to both stand there ground and also allow this game to be economicly viable.

Does anybody know what the real results of a game being non-licensed are? Also I wonder if one version can be licensed and another one not.

@3.

good idea!

@ 25, Apparently the sky is the same color in both our worlds...

It may have been difficult for you to aquire the AO title your were looking for but you are a grown man and were able to get it. The point is to make it near impossible for kids to get.

Nintendo will not let an AO game tarnish Wii's reputation. Nintendo brand means family gaming. So Manhunt 2 is not going to be licensed with its AO rating.
I'll go as far as saying that if the story goes mainstream, even a revised version with an M rating will not be licensed ; Nintendo will make a point about protecting their brand.

@31:

The *ONLY* reason I was able to get it was that I got to an online retailer that was too slow in pulling it off the system. Does that sound like "available to adults" to you, when the only way you could get it is because someone was sloppy?

Well, Rockstar has my money. I just pre-ordered the Wii version from Amazon. AO rating and all (hopefully it'll stay that way).

Just out of interest, does anyone know if the US version will work in a UK Wii?

Why did they even bother making the game? I'm not one for censorship but honestly, a murder simulator? A dumb idea. It's not that hard to make a fun game that sells well and doesn't include a psycopath main character.

"He sees three options for Take-Two at this point:

* Ship the game the way it is.
* Edit the game, bringing it in line with UK morals and the ESRB's M rating criteria.
* Cancel the game."

Er, he SEES three options? Like this is subjective? And what, praytell, would be the additional options besides "leave it as it is", "change it", and "give up"?

I see there being two numbers in binary:

* Zero
* One

I don't see how this is something parents can be worried about in a general way, if they have any interest in what their children are doing regarding consoles they (the parents) probably BOUGHT for their kid.

Hi to you, Parental Controls on wii.
http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/systems/wii/en_na/settingsParentalControls.jsp

Also, since when are adults not part of the family?

First thing Patcher is a moron and I have no idea why anyone listens to him. Second thing getting an AO rating could actually help this game sale better. Sure you might not be able to go get it at Wal-Mart or Toys R Us or Best Buy (I have no idea what their stance on AO games actually is) but that just means people will look towards online distributors. Getting the AO rating could be the greatest thing to ever happen to this game. It is probably going to be mediocre at best but with an AO rating it will probably sell like Halo 2.

Can I ask why my WII has parental controls. You can set the system to play Mature games as the highest level or you can set it to play any rating level. Why have these two options when Nintendo will not allow anything over Mature rating.

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Pachter poses Manhunt 2 costing Take-Two millions

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