Newsweek's Croal, MTV's Totilo hands-on with Manhunt 2
Newsweek's N'gai Croal hasn't been afraid to defend his tastes on his LevelUp blog. The site's Vs. Mode debates feature some of the best back-and-forth gameplay analysis to be found anywhere. So when Croal and MTV News game writer Stephen Totilo got to play the first few levels of Manhunt 2 at Rockstar's office, you know the resulting conversation is going to be good.Totilo's portion includes some graphic descriptions of the asylum escape in level one, which includes scenes of public urination, in-cell hangings and stealth kills via syringe and axe-based decapitation. The protagonist isn't completely cold to his role, though -- Totilo describes how he "watched Daniel vomit because of his quick-passing guilt."
Most of the discussion so far, though, deals with the game through the lens of comparative media studies, comparing it to controversial movies like Natural Born Killers and Taxi Driver. Croal and Totilo both harp on the idea of organizations like the BBFC and IFCO and companies like Nintendo and Sony imposing content decisions on consumers. As Croal aptly puts it, "Unless they have good reason to believe that this game is an imminent threat to the public order, or that it will in and of itself incite adults to violence, [the BBFC and IFCO's] decision seems to me to be based on taste, and I will never believe in substituting anyone else's tastes for my own." Amen!
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Hirsbrunner @ Jun 25th 2007 12:55PM
"...escape in level one, which includes scenes of public urination, in-cell hangings and stealth kills via syringe and axe-based decapitation."
I'm still not seeing the problem w/this game. More games need public urination in them. Imagine if that's what Mario did in Sunshine rather than using the FLUDD pak. Much more interesting, I think.
Savok @ Jun 25th 2007 12:57PM
Such a pity then that Newsweek has all the credibility of a used car salesman in a very bad suit.
vidGuy @ Jun 25th 2007 1:10PM
Newsweek better watch out, they have a new-born criminal on their hands... I mean, isn't that what playing Manhunt 2 does, create murderers?
Rob Accomando @ Jun 25th 2007 1:29PM
if it's inside an asylum, how is it "public" urination?
Rob Accomando @ Jun 25th 2007 1:49PM
whenever I read a Manhunt 2 story I can't help thinking of Alex from A Clockwork Orange being forced to watch violent films. They should have made him play Manhunt 2.
Jake @ Jun 25th 2007 1:54PM
If I were Nintendo, I would get a group of people together and decide which course of action will make us the most money possible. I would use this approach on every decision. If it meant not releasing certain games for various reasons, then I would do that. For some reason, I think Nintendo, like me, makes most of their decisions based on how they can make the most money possible. A lot of companies are doing this these days.
Because of its rating and content, Manhunt 2 has become a game that will bring too much negative press to any console maker that allows it on their system. Smart businesses avoid actions that lose them money in the long run. Nintendo and Sony are smart businesses. You have your answer.
Rob Accomando @ Jun 25th 2007 2:02PM
I think they're just playing it safe, not necessarily smart. It could have had a positive impact for all they know. Like huge sales and more 3rd parties being less hesitant to produce games for the Wii.
Jake @ Jun 25th 2007 2:39PM
Rob,
But it isn't for us to decide what is "safe" and "smart". You can disagree with their decision, but you must agree that it is their right to make it and that it was made with $$ in mind, not the desires of a small segment of their customers.
Almack64 @ Jun 25th 2007 2:59PM
@ Jake
You know I wish I had my own special group of people that could help me maximize my money making decisions and more importantly maximize my decisions that will earn points with my wife.
...If only such a group existed...
..."Mr. Iwata do you think this time 'no' means no or does it really mean 'yes'?"
"Almack-san I think you should talk to Mr. Miyamoto, he's being developing this new device he's calls the wife-o-meter. However to this point his results have been inconclusive."...
Ben @ Jun 25th 2007 3:14PM
Most of the article seems to support the views of the BBFC, Stephen Totilo describing the way it made him feel and N'Gai Croal going so far as to say he cannot quibble with the BBFC and IFCO's descriptions of the game.
What the article does do is disagree with the fact that the BBFC has the right to not give a game (or for that matter a film) a rating. Or that any organisation has the right to censor.
But I suppose stating that wouldn't go along with Joystiq's own slant on this story.
Now, I don't agree with censorship, but so much of the reporting of events has been so utterly one-sided that frankly it falls into the hands of the anti-game movement. Adopting a Jack Thompson-like approach of making bold statements about a game before even having seen it or evangelically defending your passion while chastising anyone who says anything against it are not positive traits. This is not the way to prove the games industry, journalists or gamers are mature and capable of dealing with adult concepts. It is not a way to get games accepted on an equal footing with other expressive and creative mediums.
Jake @ Jun 25th 2007 3:22PM
Almack,
Women are crazy. The End.
Greg @ Jun 25th 2007 4:21PM
@Ben
Are you saying that we, (by defending the game without playing it) are as bad as JT (who attacks the game without playing it)? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm just not sure I understand your comment.
I think that most of us haven't been defending Manhunt 2 per se, but the industry in general, and that industry's right to produce controversial content with the same liberty that other industries do.
MH2 could very well turn out to be absolutely gratuitous and exploitative- pornography for the murder crowd. But even if it turns out to be a virtual snuff film in the most literal sense, it's not a government's job to keep adults from playing it.
Ben @ Jun 25th 2007 5:51PM
@Greg
Yes that's pretty much what I'm saying. Although it goes beyond the mere act of defending and into the whole approach of some of the 'supporters' of the industry and their commentary.
From my reading of many (not all) of the posts made by Joystiq writers and a lot of the comments here, not to mention many other news stories and forums, there has been a huge polarisation occurring. We (rightfully) cry foul when the games industry is treated badly, when partisan commentators accuse the industry of wrong-doings, when games are classed as immature or not treated the same as other industries.
Then what happens when a game is actually treated the same as a film? (Which it was by the BBFC). A large proportion of the community jumps into a mindless reflex action of defence. It's understandable to a degree given the slating that games get in some quarters, but I feel the approach and targets have been entirely misplaced.
In the UK, the BBFC acted within it's remit, additionally they have defended the games industry time and time again. They've spoken out against the backlash against games like Bully and performed extensive research into the medium purely so they can do what they've been doing in this country for decades. Agree with them or not, they were doing their job. Admittedly this means it's illegal to sell the game (although not to own it) but it's not a first for games or film.
In the US the game was given a rating, retailers and platform holders have decided they won't stock or approve the game. It hasn't been banned.
Censorship laws vary throughout the world. How these are implemented is an important and wide reaching issue. There also should be some sensitivity (or at least basic research by those writing 'news') to the international variation, rather than an entirely US-centric approach which we have largely seen. there has also been little questioning of Take 2's motives. Manhunt has currently shot into the top 5 PS2 games at a large web-based retailer in the UK. And if Manhunt 2 ends up being available I'm sure this free publicity and the interest and mystique will do sales no harm. It's a game the company regularly play, and frankly they do it solely for their own profits without any care for the impact on the rest of the industry or to prove a point about 'art'.
Unfortunately this isn't what most have been discussing. Instead, yes, people have been acting like zealots. And sadly often falling into the hands of the anti-game movement and proving that the industry (or at least the commentators and consumers) are often not as mature as they profess to be.
V1L3 @ Jun 26th 2007 12:06AM
I'm pretty sure bestiality doesn't incite people to violence either. And if people don't copy what they see in games, why not have a game where you run around kidnapping and molesting children?
Not that I'm equating Manhunt 2 to either, but just to get it through people's heads - censorship exists for a reason, and there are some lines that just shouldn't be crossed.