NOA's Reggie Fils-Aime talks Manhunt 2, AO titles
Fils-Aime makes the company's stance with the ESRB very clear: no AO-rated titles. "This is not an image issue, Wii welcomes games rated E, T and M," he said, adding that he doubts Nintendo will ever approve an AO-rated title.
Concerning Manhunt 2, Fils-aime said that, "What Rockstar has right now is a game rated outside our spectrum, outside any manufacturer's spectrum," and asserted that they are still interested in releasing the game if it receives a Mature rating.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Darth Nihilus @ Jun 27th 2007 6:33PM
I hope Rockstar doesn't water down the game to make it M-rated. The worse thing they did was decided to even try and release this thing on a Nintendo console.
Chris @ Jun 27th 2007 6:40PM
@Darth
It's not just about Nintendo. Sony has the same stance. Their only option if they keep it AO is to release it on PC. Granted, all this publicity will probably increase sales more than w/o, but I don't think it would be in their best interest. They'll water it down, and it'll release on the Wii and PS2.
Shagittarius @ Jun 27th 2007 6:46PM
They should release the AO version on PC though, and if microsoft is smart they will make it require Vista lol!
Steve @ Jun 27th 2007 6:46PM
But Reggie mostly talks about WiiWare, which is what we should be talking about too. Manhunt 2 will be watered down to an "M" rating and that's that.
As for WiiWare, if they truly hold to their word of not providing much oversight on the content as long as it passes ESRB with an "M" rating or lower, that would be a surprising change for Nintendo. They usually want things to be "neat and clean". A huge list of mostly crappy indie and mini-game cash-ins would be anything but.
By the way, does anyone know how much the Wii dev kits cost? I doubt he truly means "darn near free", it would probably still be a substantial cost to a couple dudes who want to make a game.
Pixelantes Anonymous @ Jun 27th 2007 6:46PM
I think Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft (yes, they all have the same policy) are making a mistake here.
The gamer population is aging. The average age of a gamer is 33, according to the latest ESA study on gamer demographics. That's up from 30 a year before.
Why is it so hard to accept that there might be adults using these devil machines nowadays?
Darth Nihilus @ Jun 27th 2007 6:50PM
I am not really blaming Nintendo but I think the fact that it was going to be released on the Wii garnered more attention to it and an extra look over because the Wii is essentially the only console for children. The original Manhunt was pretty grusome so I don't see why the change of rating for a sequel aside from this.
LTNK @ Jun 27th 2007 6:56PM
Darth nihilus, it isn't the supposed kiddie audience. Have you forgot about what kind of control the Wii has? That was the concern of the ESRB.
Charron @ Jun 27th 2007 7:00PM
Steve, I'm less worried about cost and more worried about access. Am I going to have to go through more hoops than in Superman 64 to get a game on there? I know they say they're going to be fairly hands-off, but it's easy to say that when you're restricting dev kits to certain parameters in the first place.
I just don't want there to be such a thing as "too small" a small studio.
Phillip @ Jun 27th 2007 7:20PM
This is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard.
Basically, the content doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is a group of people on a rating board's _opinion_ of the content. If the game is rated for 17+ years old, that's cool, but if the game is rated for 18+ years old, we won't allow it.
Personally, I'm not interested in this game because of the content... NOT because of the rating. I don't like brutally violent games of this kind, and I do feel it deserves an AO rating. I don't feel, however, that because it is rated for 1 year older players it should be denied release.
That's dumb.
Steve @ Jun 27th 2007 7:26PM
Charron: They probably don't want to make it too easy and cheap because then they'll be flooded with requests for dev kits from people who have no skills to put together a whole game, let alone one that is enjoyable I would like them to NOT turn away garage-style projects if it looks like they have the manpower and skills to likely succeed, but I think some hoop-jumping will at least weed out the people who aren't serious about it.
I hope there's no "too small" studio too. I really think 2-3 people with some great ideas and a couple computers could make some excellent games for any of the consoles' electronically-distributed games.
Steve @ Jun 27th 2007 7:26PM
Charron: They probably don't want to make it too easy and cheap because then they'll be flooded with requests for dev kits from people who have no skills to put together a whole game, let alone one that is enjoyable I would like them to NOT turn away garage-style projects if it looks like they have the manpower and skills to likely succeed, but I think some hoop-jumping will at least weed out the people who aren't serious about it.
I hope there's no "too small" studio too. I really think 2-3 people with some great ideas and a couple computers could make some excellent games for any of the consoles' electronically-distributed services.
Utils @ Jun 27th 2007 7:27PM
They should release the game on the black market.
Remember Thrill Kill?
Smoke_Dawg_187 @ Jun 27th 2007 7:32PM
@ Darth Nihilus
Do you listen to Sirius/Howard Stern?
Rubang B @ Jun 27th 2007 7:34PM
When Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft all make the same decision to never license AO games, why pick on Nintendo and call them a kiddie system? Either pick on the industry and call it a kiddie industry or shut the fuck up thanks.
Well hey, at least the ESRB is finally gaining some credibility, which will help the industry in the long run. The rules will relax over time. Just watch Street Fighter (1974 starring Sonny Chiba) or Midnight Cowboy (1969) and think about how they were rated X when they came out.
Darth Nihilus @ Jun 27th 2007 7:35PM
Yeah I love Sirius.
Gross Greg @ Jun 27th 2007 7:39PM
By the way, do you know who Sony and Nintendo are really scared of? Moms. No company wants to be on the receiving end of the wrath that they'll receive when thousands of moms come home to catch thousands of 11-year-olds playing AO games. Seriously, an army of Weapons of Motherly Destuction (WMDs) are a company's worst nightmare.
Mr Khan @ Jun 27th 2007 7:59PM
@ Steve
Good idea.
Because it was a group of 3 guys who were the original staff of Sonic Team, in its entiriety, when they made Sonic the Hedgehog
mayhap another garage group might come up with something equally cool
icicle0424 @ Jun 27th 2007 7:59PM
Darth: what's with all the "kiddy system" crap? seriously, remember that the xbox version of Conkers was much more censored than the n64 version, but why doesn't the xbox get stuck with the "kiddy" label?
and as others have pointed out before, Nintendo isn't the only company with a policy against AO games...
/pet peeve
stoik @ Jun 27th 2007 8:08PM
How about beat the game and it unlocks the AO version. Or Rockstar releases a code to do the same long after people buy it. Take that...whoever is bad.
NintendoFanbot @ Jun 27th 2007 8:13PM
Nintendo's kiddy image has existed but mostly under superficial circumstances. At the same time Nintendo was getting hammered for content regulation Sega had their own self-regulation board when they were trying to sell the now-broken 'cool image' that started with Sonic.
But hey, it's all good now.^_^
Rubang B @ Jun 27th 2007 8:17PM
BMX XXX was censored ONLY on the PS2, but not on the GameCube or the XBox. Clearly Sony is for babies.
Saturn2888 @ Jun 27th 2007 8:33PM
If image isn't the matter here, then what is? If it's just because policy says so, isn't Nintendo's policy about new an innovative things? This game doesn't even have nudity as far as I know and BMX XXX was released on GCN no problem. How did it get an M rating? People said the ESRB is crazy because it wasn't even that much of a gore fest compared to many movies. Then why not make AO for 19 or 20 or 21 year olds only. I mean, alcohol can kill you, smoking can kill you, a game cannot! I highly doubt it would make many people want to kill either if they realized that the majority of people (by law) that can play this game are wait... ALL OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO PLAY THIS GAME ARE OVER 18 ONLY. Why would mothers come home and see their 12 year old kids playing it? Because they're stupid. They should just enforce on the box or something, NOT FOR UNDER 18. Geezus... They card at the freakin' store. If they see a mom, they should card her so she knows what she's buying.
bm @ Jun 27th 2007 8:37PM
Why? Because they're just trying to make an example out of the game. Or because they've *secretly* been threatened by Jack.
Steve 3.2 @ Jun 27th 2007 9:07PM
If Nintendo can upgrade the Wii's firmware to support SDHC, then they really don't need to bring out a HDD. With up to 32GB per card, there would be more than enough space for most people. Heck even a standard 2GB SD card is probably enough for the average Wii user. (Hopefully Nintendo also gets a little less cheap and opts to put more than 512MB in future Wii models.)
Spiza @ Jun 27th 2007 9:58PM
Releasing it for PC would be a good idea.
351 Ranger @ Jun 27th 2007 10:13PM
One question!
Does PS2 and PS3 play PORNO MOVIES???? Sorry for the wierd question, but if they do...what is the difference if the allow "sexual activies" by actual humans insted of a fictional game???
If they do not, then nevermind. haha
Charron @ Jun 27th 2007 10:24PM
Steve: I totally understand where you're coming from about quality. I think the ideal way to do it would be to have a prototyping stage. Offer some public forum where teams can show off prototypes to Nintendo and the world. The best games gather the most attention from the public, which translates to attention from Nintendo, which translates to a dev kit. If they're only posting prototypes and not full games, it won't eat into sales and could even function as a demo service. If someone posts a full game... well, it's their own fault for putting the full game out for free and cannibalizing their own sales.
zwarrior @ Jun 27th 2007 11:41PM
LOL #3
BPM @ Jun 27th 2007 11:54PM
@Steve:
"...oversight on the content as long as it passes ESRB with an "M" rating or lower, that would be a surprising change for Nintendo. They usually want things to be "neat and clean"."
That hasn't been true for a long, damn time. They haven't tried to censor other publishers' games since Mortal Kombat on the Super NES.
"By the way, does anyone know how much the Wii dev kits cost? I doubt he truly means "darn near free", it would probably still be a substantial cost to a couple dudes who want to make a game."
A Wii devkit costs US$2,000. Which is even less than what the PlayStion devkits used to cost.
@All that complain about the difference between M and AO:
Yes, one year may seem arbitrary, but it's more about the meaning of the rating, than the age limit. An AO rating means the content of the game is far more extreme than that of an M rating.
The situation is similar in Japan, too. CERO has the D (17+) and Z (18+) ratings. Getting a Z rating is usually asking for trouble, as a lot of retailers won't carry them.
For example, Biohzarard 4 is toned down compared to Resident Evil 4. They took out the decapitations from the Japanese version, as that would've earned them a Z rating (even though it's passable for a M rating in America). If it was kept in the Japanese release, it would've been much harder for Capcom to sell.
BPM @ Jun 27th 2007 11:59PM
@351 Ranger:
The difference is the porno movies have already been made. So, there's nothing stoping the playback of them on PS/Xbox (except for parental controls).
Manhunt 2 has not already been made, and both Nintendo and Sony (Microsoft, too?) have a policy against licensing AO rated games, which prevents the game from even being released.
laserboyjc @ Jun 28th 2007 12:31AM
@ 5 Pixelante. "I think Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft (yes, they all have the same policy) are making a mistake here.
The gamer population is aging. The average age of a gamer is 33, according to the latest ESA study on gamer demographics. That's up from 30 a year before."
Yes the gamers are aging, but for a lot of them that also means they're maturing, not just getting older. Believe it or not, some of us, even 27 year olds such as myself don't need/want all our games to suddenly drop the fun factor and become little more than bloody messes for the sake of shock value.
You ask "Why is it so hard to accept that there might be adults using these devil machines nowadays?"
I ask, why is it so hard for people to think that companies want to control what's sold for their wares? If you had a store, it doesn't mean you have to take any product some lousy vendor wants you to carry...it's YOUR store, your choice. It doesn't matter whether the product is good or whether people want it or not, you are not obliged to sell it if it is not consistent with your ideals/image/goals/etc...
If you ask me, the ones making the mistake here are the gamers who are crying bloody murder to the companies that have provided us years/decades of fun because of one game they don't want to carry? Too many of these "anti-censorship crusaders" don't really care much for freedom of expression, and believe me, neither does the team behind Manhunt 2. They are not trying to create something to challenge people's ideas and confront their values, which is something that many violent movies, plays, novels have done. Let's face it, they don't crave artistic merit, all they really care about is using shock tactics to get your money into their pockets.
It really is time we demand that developers make better games that speak to us "adults." Will they be more violent? Very likely, and I don't oppose that, but I'm tired of developers thinking they can shove any piece of junk to us 20-30 year olds just because they think that making it gratuitous will make it worth our while.
Smokes2Much247 @ Jun 28th 2007 8:31AM
Just put in a pre-order, no word of rejection yet... 31st August release?
http://www.play.com/Games/Wii/4-/3321141/Manhunt-2/Product.html
metalhed27 @ Jun 28th 2007 9:04AM
7. Darth nihilus, it isn't the supposed kiddie audience. Have you forgot about what kind of control the Wii has? That was the concern of the ESRB.
Posted at 6:56PM on Jun 27th 2007 by LTNK
According to Reggie Fils-Aime (see N'Gai Croal's recent interview), he felt the standards of the ESRB do not (and should not) apply to the Wii's interface, but rather just the game content itself.
Reggie cites:
""That's an issue for the ESRB and Rockstar to work through. And as I understand the ESRB guidelines, the Wii controls should not be an issue.""
Almack64 @ Jun 28th 2007 10:20AM
Some many people talk about the one year agae difference being arbitrary. Well true it is but aren't all age restrictions.
Between 15 and 16 do I become significantly more able to operate a motor vehicle.
Between 17 & 18 do gain more understanding concerning the effects of tobacco on my body.
Between 20 & 21 does alchohol get somehow less intoxicating or do someone how become more tolerant of it.
At 25 do I somehow become more competent and responsible in renting a car.
This is just how these types of restrictions work. There has to be a cut off at some point. I guess one could argue just have everything open to everyone. Well let's just see how fast society destroys itself if that's the case.
Then again if parents actually parent maybe such an open society could work.
Cyrus @ Jun 28th 2007 1:00PM
WTF, can't any of these companies say WHY they don't license AO rated games?! When they get asked they just parrot the same stupid line, "Because that's the policy." Well, WHY is that the policy?! They just said it isn't an image thing, so WTF could it be?!