Anecdotal: Red Ring of Death rate is 33% says DailyTech
by Alexander Sliwinski 
{ Jul 3rd 2007 at 7:20PM }
Ever hear the song that doesn't end? We have our own rendition for the continuing Red Ring of Death debacle: This Red Ring mess just doesn't end. Yes it goes on and on my friend. Xbox owners started getting it not knowing what it was. And we'll keep on reporting it 'til someone fesses up. (And now just keep repeating.) The latest news comes from DailyTech who says that the failure rate is somewhere around 33%. Now let's just slow it down and take a step back. DailyTech came to the conclusion with the use of unnamed sources and no documentation. The Microsoft version of the Pentagon Papers this is not.
But, they did put some effort into the work, which although being anecdotal, does give a better picture to the situation. DailyTech contacted retail outlets that offer in-store extended warranties and found the Xbox 360 to be the least reliable. They also mention conference calls for EB Games stores which led to warranty policy changes due to the failure rate. A former EB Games employee by the name of Matthieu G. says, "The real numbers were between 30 to 33 percent ... We had 35 Xbox 360s at launch I know more than half of them broke within the first six months (red lights or making circles under the game discs). Two of them were dead on arrival." Of course, this is referring to launch Xbox 360s, an issue Microsoft has already addressed.
The rest of the article beyond that is just a chronology of everything that's been covered before, culminating in the cringe inducing Holmdahl interview with the Mercury Times. As more and more media outlets join the bandwagon, it's amazing that Microsoft hasn't just released the numbers regarding the failure rate, which they say is less than 5%. If you were a corporation with the evidence to make this all go away and you were telling the truth, why wouldn't you just do it at this point? And the next media outlet to report on the Red Ring of Death is?
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Spitkicker @ Jul 3rd 2007 7:27PM
Meh, I own two 360's and love them. I admit my launch day premium had to be replaced, and then the replacement had to be repaired but MS handled them both times within a week and a half. So long as they have great costumer service they will get my money (I love my Elite!!!)...oh yeah great games and XBOX LIVE help. I agree though, MS needs to address these issues openly. They still have the best system out there now.
Rubang B @ Jul 3rd 2007 7:32PM
Microsoft is lying
OR
Microsoft is stupid.
DWells55 @ Jul 3rd 2007 7:35PM
I'm on my sixth 360. 33% doesn't sound all that far fetched and it's definitely a lot higher for refurb consoles.
Myke @ Jul 3rd 2007 7:37PM
I don't know, maybe the numbers of defects really ARE that high, all I know is I keep playing my 360 every day, and keep reading these stories, and keep playing it and keep reading these stories. If it craps out then by god every Sony lameboy is right, but until that day I'm totally cool putting my faith in MS.
GodisaMyth @ Jul 3rd 2007 7:39PM
If the actual defective rate is 33% and I believe it is, then Microsoft cannot admit it. It would kill their system immediately. By pussyfooting around the issue and playing dumb...no-one can know with absolute certainty what the defective rate is.
They could do what the Japanese do (Actually in Japan, the only RROD claims have been on imports. All Japanese 360s use IceLink technology to keep it cool not to mention they have carbon fiber x-clamps instead of the plastic ones used here.
Posted at 6:04PM on Jul 3rd 2007 by GJM)
Thanks GJM
but they choose not to. Why, money?
I do wonder how much longer it will be before we see a class action lawsuit.
Raikage @ Jul 3rd 2007 7:40PM
I agree with Spitkcker, the 360 is a wonderful system that is unfortunaetly being plagued with an absolutely unacceptable, yes, RIDICULOUS failure rate. Listening to the problems with the broken systems, it sounds like a simple fix (Come on! Use a little glue!). I can't remember anytime in the industry (besides the dreaded PS2 disc read error *I hate you*) where the flailure rates were anywhere near this high. Microsoft better hope soccer mom don't get wind of this, $400 is an investment, not pocket change.
Spitkicker @ Jul 3rd 2007 7:41PM
Or....SONY had paid to put this story into rotation. This would explain why they don't "bribe" companies for exclusivity...they have no money to do it. Yeah, that's it. SONY did it. Wait, maybe it was Bush's fault.
Or it could just be true that the defect rate is that high.
Spitkicker @ Jul 3rd 2007 7:43PM
Damn you MS! Just be straight with us. I already own the system it's not like I would sell it. Honesty is the best policy...although it may not be the most profitable. If they continue to avoid this issue then it could just snowball out of control.
Chris Putnam @ Jul 3rd 2007 7:45PM
Remember that the RRoD is just one defect in the system. That guy with 11 defective boxes went through a whole circus of different problems, from the RRoD to sound to graphics issues, all of which made the system unplayable.
If you factor all that in, I have no trouble believing the 2/3 failure rate figure reported by other sites.
(By the way, with a 5% failure rate, the odds of getting 11 defective systems is roughly 1 in 200 trillion. That's if I remember how to do statistics).
cc123 @ Jul 3rd 2007 7:48PM
33% sounds right if you count all the refurbished units as separate failures.
My guess is that the number of unique systems that fail is around 15% which is still absurd since that's already 1.5 million. This percentage may also be moving up as those systems spend more time in the hands of users.
I don't even know what Microsoft's gameplan is with these...it seems like their just closing their eyes covering their ears and praying for a miracle.
hegemonyhog @ Jul 3rd 2007 7:54PM
I returned my 360 after 29 days - it got a RRoD, and there was no way I was paying $80 extra for the warranty since the 30-day return period was up. (This, of course, is something that the above analysis may not take into account: returns that are still within the in-store warranty.)
I want one, but I refuse to invest in one until we're paying less for more reliable product.
Kemo @ Jul 3rd 2007 7:58PM
People must be beating up there systems or something.. ive had mine since day one.. I keep it well ventilated and i haven't had ONE problem at all.
Spitkicker @ Jul 3rd 2007 7:59PM
Yeah, I think the fact that they replace "broken" systems with refubs does not help. Probably half the problem.
Michael K. @ Jul 3rd 2007 8:10PM
further proving that microsoft and the 360 suck
Dustin @ Jul 3rd 2007 8:13PM
My box red lighted last night... I think Jesus hates me
Spitkicker @ Jul 3rd 2007 8:14PM
@Michael K.
Back to your cave PS3 fanboy. Tell that to the huge install base on 360. How is your piece of shit 3 doing? Hope it is folding those proteins well, because that is about the most fun you will have on that system. Unless of course you are waiting for HOME....
Velops @ Jul 3rd 2007 8:20PM
It's ironic that a Microsoft representative criticized Sony's online strategy by saying it's not in their "DNA". In this case, it's not in Microsoft's "DNA" to produce reliable hardware since it's roots are in software. It seems only Nintendo is the only one trying a balanced approach to both hardware and software.
All it would take to resolve this issue is if Microsoft ordered a recall. Microsoft executives are probably reluctant because the Xbox 360 has been on the market for over 1.5 years now, making a worldwide recall a massive undertaking due to the number of units in the market.
Kris @ Jul 3rd 2007 8:21PM
The problem with some xbox people is they deny all the problems just because their system HASNT died yet but once you get a visit from the rings your whole outlook changes. for ex
" 12. People must be beating up there systems or something.. ive had mine since day one.. I keep it well ventilated and i haven't had ONE problem at all."
I used to work at gamestop and they made it a huge selling point to sell the insurance on all 360s bc they ARE known to have problems. Its not a rumor or speculation its fact
Red Leader @ Jul 3rd 2007 8:23PM
One of the (relatively few) good things about the Gamecube: you could use it as a soccer ball and it'd still be more than able to keep playing games.
I'm just hoping my Wii holds out on me. Wiimote straps aside there haven't been any major issues with the actual system. I suppose the low-power nature of the system is the reason.
Mr Khan @ Jul 3rd 2007 8:24PM
I would release all the failure information September 27th, the day after everyone with a 360 gets thier Halo 3 copy
Then everyone with a 360 will be too busy to care...
Attila @ Jul 3rd 2007 9:15PM
I've had my 360 for 8 months now without any problems whatsoever. Maybe I'm lucky, but I also made sure that unit and power adapter have plenty of space to breathe.
anghus @ Jul 3rd 2007 8:43PM
here's something.
a friend of mine works at Wal Mart. Another works at Best Buy.
Every single 360 Elite they sold came back in 72 hours with the red ring of death. Every. Single. One. 33% might even be a low number.
Have they ever determined what causes it?
I was going to buy an xbox. i have the money to get it, but this is making me rethink the purchase.
Spartacus @ Jul 3rd 2007 8:44PM
Velops:
Your arguement doesn't hold any water. MS' debut console was arguably one of the most rock solid consoles in gaming history. I think the 360 should be categorized as an exception to the rule unless the next Xbox has similar issues. Until then, while it is unfortunate, the 360 failure rate is not indicative of MS' quality or competence as a console maker.
What is curious is how they have handled it. If heat truly is the issue, then upgrading the fans or X-clamp shouldn't be a big deal, especially if the Japanese version already employs these parts. Possibly MS is waiting on the 65nm chips to warrant a system make-over and are trying to hold back the dam until then... Who knows.
Spitkicker @ Jul 3rd 2007 8:48PM
@anghus
Well I have had my elite for more then 72 hours, with no issues. In fact it seems to run better then my premium ever did (and quieter), imagine that. I don't want to hear that I'm the exception, because I know other people with an Elite with no issues.
Paulish @ Jul 3rd 2007 8:49PM
My 360 is heading in for repair for the second time once I get the box to send it in. As long as it's under warranty, I have no problem sending it in for repair, even though it is an inconvenience. If it wasn't under warranty, I'd let it collect dust. No way am I paying more to fix it. That's absolutely ridiculous.
First, my 360 died with a disc read error. Now, it's the Red Ring of Death. I wish I didn't have to worry about my $400+ investment crapping out on me if I play too long but I do and that's pretty sad.
Spitkicker @ Jul 3rd 2007 8:50PM
Maybe people should shop at better stores then Wal-Mart or Best Buy. (I really hate both of those companies so I had to say it)
Imadogg99 @ Jul 3rd 2007 9:03PM
I love Best Buy. I'm on my 3rd 360, Best Buy replaces my dead 360s as quick as I bring em in.
All 3 360s were new too, no refurbs... the 33% might be too high, but the rate sure as hell is higher than 5%.
rom @ Jul 3rd 2007 9:09PM
@Kris
"The problem with some xbox people is they deny all the problems just because their system HASNT died yet but once you get a visit from the rings your whole outlook changes."
You just described what happened to me. I thought it was that people were mistreating their consoles and blaming MS. Now I see things clearly now, but it cost me. $400 + tax and games to be exact. This is completely unacceptable.
Genosyde @ Jul 3rd 2007 9:43PM
"They could do what the Japanese do (Actually in Japan, the only RROD claims have been on imports. All Japanese 360s use IceLink technology to keep it cool not to mention they have carbon fiber x-clamps instead of the plastic ones used here."
I wish that was true. I had two Japanese Xbox 360s died on me. The second one just a week ago. Both lasted less than 6 months. I don't live in Japan and the Xbox is not officially supported where I live so it really sucks when it breaks down. I've sent my 2nd unit to have the xclamp replaced. Hopefully it can be successfully repaired.
Those who have not experienced any problems with their units, thank your lucky stars.
Joop @ Jul 3rd 2007 9:15PM
Did all of you fail math?
If the failure rate was %33, rather than the %3 they claim, there would be over a thousand people on their 10th console, and hundreds on their 12th. At %33 there would be over 3 million people on at least their second console. 3 million, not you and your buddy, that other guy, and some people on a forum, 3 goddamn million.
Even at %3, which I think everyone can agree is a pretty conservative figure, there's a definite possibility of some one needing a 12th replacement, because you're dealing with over 10 million units.
There's a calculator down there in that start menu, learn to use it.
Also, at the risk of sounding too fanboyish, this isn't a unique incident. There were so many faulty first run PS2's that Sony had to settle a class action lawsuit over it.
BNinjaC @ Jul 3rd 2007 9:17PM
@ 27 same here.
I'm lucky enough to own all 3 current gen consoles and while I use my 360 the most, the build quality is terrible compared to the wii or PS3.
My second (new)360 is on it's last legs and I won't be getting another one. Hopefully it'll struggle on until Halo3...
Chilly @ Jul 3rd 2007 9:27PM
@22 Spartacus:
What are you talking about?!? The first Xbox had an official product recall on their power bricks b/c they were causing fires. I would hardly call that "rock solid." Whether you're a Nintendo fan or not, the truth is the only console company with a rep for hardware not breaking down is Nintendo.
Kris @ Jul 3rd 2007 9:37PM
I think you failed math 28. joop its not " %33 " its 33% sign after the number. hehe by thats besides the point
Anyway we all know Sony had their far shares of disc read error problems but at least they learned to fix it with the newer iterations of the slim ps2 and the ps3 doesnt do that now so good for them.
but
Microsoft on the other hand hasnt. The Elite has the same problems as the 360s before it. I think you can all agree disc read error is not as bad as a new scratched up 65.01 disc (thats ny taxed) that
and besides bringing up ps2 problems is the past no ones complaining about that now.
Johnny_Ridden @ Jul 3rd 2007 9:37PM
I wouldn't have believed this if I'm not on my 3rd xbox360 in the span of 6 months.
Ian Von Porter @ Jul 3rd 2007 9:55PM
Maybe 360 is the number of days the xbox360 is expected to survive... although, a lot dont even make it that far. I expect a huge spike in RRoD once Halo3 hit... its gonna be taxing the system like crasy. It'll be the death knell for a lot of units.
Dan @ Jul 3rd 2007 10:08PM
My 360 has lasted longer than my first PS2 did.
Fingers crossed, I still have a launch 360 and it hasn't died yet.
azesino @ Jul 3rd 2007 10:32PM
I was one of those guys saying... Sony fanboys must be writing this stories because my 360 had 14 months, and it was still going... until last week when it give me the ROD, I felt so stupid, because everyone told me and I tough It was just lies.. all I can tell you is cherish your 360 because it will brake like mines, I had mine vertically and cleaned the vents every week in a well ventilated area and it still broke.
Iam not paying the 150 to fix it so i guess ill just wait until ms adress the issue and buy another one, yes I know microsoft rape me, but the 360 is still a great system
foamking @ Jul 9th 2007 11:01AM
I visited my local Best Buy today and their display 360 was blinking the RRoD.
Friend of mine has gone through 3 360's and is on his 4th. He bought the store(Gamestop) warranty for $80 on each purchase. Whenever the system(s) died, he just brought the whole system back and got a new one - and they let him keep his hard drive. They did charge him an additional fee of $50 for each system.
I wonder how long it'll take the stores to start making some noise - they're getting returned systems, but the warranty revenue could be why we haven't been hearing anything from them...
Loki @ Jul 3rd 2007 10:54PM
It seems only Nintendo is the only one trying a balanced approach to both hardware and software.
Thanks for the chuckle...But producing a underpowered system with the a bunch of mini games is not a balanced approach...
Loki @ Jul 3rd 2007 11:08PM
Ignore post 38 sorry tired of the mini game parade being pushed out.
I do agree Ninty's shit doesn't break down...
But hell I still have my original PS2 from launch day and my 360 from launch day...
Trismegistos @ Jul 3rd 2007 11:29PM
I've had my 360 about 10 months and had no problems so far. I do worry when I read things like this.
It would be interesting to know what Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo consider to be an acceptable percentage in terms of system failures.
John Doe @ Jul 3rd 2007 11:30PM
How much "anecdotal" evidence do you need before it becomes obvious to even the most inept person that this isn't a case of only a few systems having this problem?
h0mi @ Jul 4th 2007 12:17AM
Admitting the problem won't kill MS, other than maybe being fodder for a class action lawsuit (damn it lawyers, where the hell are you and what are you waiting for?). The more important news is if it's getting better or not.... has the problem(s) been fixed or are the elites failing, are newer 360s still failing?
Cuja @ Jul 4th 2007 12:38AM
My launch day 360 is still kicking ass, unenclose next to the AC vent. Lot better than a Piece of Shit 3.
Chris Putnam @ Jul 4th 2007 12:47AM
@Joop: I think you might want to go back to math class or learn to use that handy Start Menu calculator yourself.
At 33% failures, there would be 170 people on their 10th console, not over a thousand. That's assuming they all kept replacing it after getting burned again and again, which I doubt very many would.
At 33%, yes, there would be over 3 million people on at least their second console. I think that's entirely believable, if not even a little conservative. Because you're right - it's you, and your buddy, and 3 of your other buddies, and most of the people on that forum you visit, and at least a couple people from every major gaming news site. In other words, it's just about everybody. And this is after only a year and a half - a lot more of those original consoles could still go.
And the odds of someone needing a 12th unit at a 3% failure rate, as you mention? 1 in 56.5 quadrillion. The odds of just one person out of all 10 million Xbox 360 owners needing 12 units? Those are much better - a healthy 1 in 5.6 billion. If that's what you call "a definite possibility," I want to play poker with you.
Yeah, you're probably right. Nothing out of the ordinary here, the 360 is just fine.
Brian @ Jul 4th 2007 12:53AM
My Elite broke 2 weeks ago. I had a premium from launch break a month before that. I'm on my 3rd box(premium) so that puts me at 66%. Eat that anecdotal data!
jimmith @ Jul 4th 2007 1:00AM
@28 Joop
Your math skills might be superhuman for all i know, but you logic fails on one point. For your calculation to be correct every single incident of broken 360's has to have happened already. This is not true, there has only been so much time since the release.
So your figure of thousands of people on their 10'th 360 might come true- in the future. If people keep sending in their machines that is. I think that a fair amount of people would give up before they reach such a high number.
Also, to all of you with fully functional 360's that refuse to believe this failure rate: 33% does NOT mean that your 360s have to break. It means that one in three will fail sooner or later. There two times the chance that you will get a unit that doesn't break as opposed to one that does.
Ritz @ Jul 4th 2007 1:15AM
I love my launch Gamecube. And my launch Wii. And my launch DS Lite. My best friend's brother's 360 broke down 2 weeks ago; RRoD--8 months old. And the killer is that I want a 360 for a lot of those games. But, I am not spending half a paycheck on something I am convinced will break down.
Brian @ Jul 4th 2007 9:16AM
Out of the 13 people on my friends list 6 of them had to send their 360 in for repair. I also had to send my launch system in for repairs. That's 7 out of 14 users. Absolutely terrible. The odd thing is that I love the 360. Fantastic Machine. It's just a shame how many failures are going on.
unosturgis @ Jul 4th 2007 1:54AM
hey azesino wanna sell your broken system?