Scratchin' it: Xbox 360 class action lawsuit filed
by Kevin Kelly 
{ Jul 10th 2007 at 4:30AM }
We knew it was only a matter of time until someone brought a class action lawsuit against Microsoft and the Xbox 360, but we thought it would be related to failure rates and the red ring of death, not scratched discs. But, here it is before the ink is even dry right after being filed in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. The plaintiff and his lawyers are seeking more than five million dollars (insert Dr. Evil laugh here) to cover the damages and costs. C'mon, this is Microsoft, their soft-serve ice-cream budget for a holiday weekend probably exceeds five million smackers.
The lawsuit contends that the plaintiffs in the case "have been damaged in that their game discs were destroyed by the Xbox 360 during reasonable, foreseeable, normal, and intended use." They blame Microsoft because "The Xbox 360 was negligently designed and manufactured in that the Console's laser disc reading assembly contacts and scratches the video game discs during normal and intended operation and use." They cite at length the scratching study conducted by the Dutch TV program Kassa (are they getting a cut of this?) and the fact that the plaintiff couldn't play his Madden NFL '07 disc.
Either someone smells blood in the water, or the timing on this thing is just impeccable, we're not sure which one. One thing is for certain, this will probably get lost in the cacophony of E3 this week. Check out the pages in the gallery below, and chime in with your two cents.
The lawsuit contends that the plaintiffs in the case "have been damaged in that their game discs were destroyed by the Xbox 360 during reasonable, foreseeable, normal, and intended use." They blame Microsoft because "The Xbox 360 was negligently designed and manufactured in that the Console's laser disc reading assembly contacts and scratches the video game discs during normal and intended operation and use." They cite at length the scratching study conducted by the Dutch TV program Kassa (are they getting a cut of this?) and the fact that the plaintiff couldn't play his Madden NFL '07 disc.
Either someone smells blood in the water, or the timing on this thing is just impeccable, we're not sure which one. One thing is for certain, this will probably get lost in the cacophony of E3 this week. Check out the pages in the gallery below, and chime in with your two cents.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Enliven @ Jul 10th 2007 4:48AM
I'm not usually one to agree with this kind of litigious action but this is long overdue. It isn't reasonable for equipment to be so delicate and cause damage to other products during use.
I'm scared to look at my 360 when it has a disc in the drive in case it takes offence.
BNinjaC @ Jul 10th 2007 4:53AM
+1
I've suffered from this myself. Not fun.
Hannibal @ Jul 10th 2007 4:55AM
Agreed. I just wish I got a piece of it for my Blood Money disc.
Patrick @ Jul 10th 2007 2:12PM
why are some comments so light?
Wes @ Jul 10th 2007 8:49PM
It says in the manual, 'DONT MOVE WHILE CONSOLE IS IN USE'.
Its not really the xbox 360's fault that people are moving the consoles WHILE IN USE causing the discs to be scratched.
That's like trying to change tires on a car while its in use and saying 'Its Microsoft's fault my feet have been damaged beyond repair!'
Heh @ Jul 10th 2007 5:03AM
Enliven- you are doing it wrong. My friend has a [day 1] 360 and told me it's all about showing it who's in charge. Just stare it down (try looking towards the lower left green part of the ring) and show it you're man enough to play another GoW match. You'll never get a scratched disc, ever.
Also, I'm willing to bet $5 that $ony fanboys will use this as firepower against the 360 DURING E3's coverage.
synce @ Jul 10th 2007 5:14AM
You know there's a new reply function, right?
Rare Hare @ Jul 10th 2007 5:40AM
the reply function makes me feel like my comment is less important :(
synce @ Jul 10th 2007 5:02AM
I've probably spent over 1,000 hours on my 360 so far, and I've yet to have a single scratch. People who get scratched discs ignore the user manual. You're not supposed to the move the console around when it's in use, which I'm betting the idiot who's suing them did.
Poisoned Al @ Jul 10th 2007 5:37AM
Microsoft have used a range of different DVD drives in the 360, and I believe this problem is limited to one of them. So it is very likely that you have one of the better models in your box.
VerticalEvent @ Jul 10th 2007 5:40AM
... or, it's a faulty console. Not all systems are built with the exact same parts; some consoles may have lower quality parts, simply because of the manufacturing process.
Of course, there's still something to be sad about human stupidity, though. But, a report was done on the 360 scratching discs (from a third-party).
Dadidito @ Jul 10th 2007 9:48AM
I run my xbox360 all the time and my disc are pristine. You have to handle them with care. As synce stated there are certain things you shouldn't do with a Cd in the drive.
Dadidito @ Jul 10th 2007 9:48AM
I run my xbox360 all the time and my disc are pristine. You have to handle them with care. As synce stated there are certain things you shouldn't do with a dvd in the drive.
Wes @ Jul 11th 2007 2:17AM
Aye, exactly. I think MS should come out of this lawsuit ok. They clearly say do not move the console while in use in their manual and product safety sheets.
People don't read them. I mean, how many eletronics do you move while in use? Anyone tried moving their computer while in use? How about your tv? Your dvd-player? Your stereo system? Your backup power supply? Your video card? do you move your video card in your pc while in use?
HELL NO! Do you move your xbox 360 while in use? 'Yes, but but but it shouldn't scratch it! Jsut cause it says in the manual not to move it and I moved it doesn't make my suing for money less valid!! Nor does the fact that you wouldn't move alot of other products while in use'
Shane @ Jul 10th 2007 5:02AM
My 360 scratches discs. I've had it since last November, and since then I've gone through three copies of Call of Duty 3, 2 copies of Gears, and two copies of Crackdown. Test Drive Unlimited is close to death, and Rainbow Six Vegas currently works fine but also has plenty of damage.
For the benefit of the peanut gallery, I do not move my console while it is on or while it has a disc in it. And, I have experienced this problem with the console in both the horizontal and vertical positions.
Also, Microsoft refuse to repair it under warranty because it is 'impossible for an Xbox 360 to scratch discs.' The lady on the phone told me that I had moved the console, despite my insistence that I had not.
So good luck to these people.
Sean @ Jul 10th 2007 3:00PM
The rep I talked to argued that I moved my 360 too, then I told her to get me her supervisor since they were refusing to fix this thing. After 10 mins on hold she came back on and said that they would be repairing my 360 at no charge and sent a box to ship it in. Now whether they do anything or not remains to be seen. Dammit MS gives us a break I havent heard of any issues with the PS3 like I have the 360, your going to start losing customers to Sony and you cant afford that to win this battle!
TheMag @ Jul 11th 2007 12:56PM
when people vote down your comments, it gets lighter and lighter. This means it's usually a troll comment or just a dumbfounded one.
serotoninzero @ Jul 10th 2007 5:11AM
But five million dollars?
How does this even make sense?
Will @ Jul 10th 2007 5:31AM
He had a lot of games?
Krakk @ Jul 10th 2007 5:31AM
It's simply a starting point, where dependent on class discovery can be adjusted
mrduckbear @ Jul 10th 2007 2:27PM
funny how you say this isn't serious or that they have shoddy claims considering had it been a Sony lawsuit against PS3, you'd be all over it and say more bad press for Sony. Can't you for once admit this is bad press for Microsoft now?
Frank East @ Jul 10th 2007 5:52AM
5 mill... thats just plain greedy, I hope he has to sell his house after the lawsuit. A dvd costs less than half a dollar. and he wants 5 mill??? this world is getting sue happy. (UK suffers from it worst though)
Poisoned Al @ Jul 10th 2007 6:22AM
What? You mean the US surely? I've been over to the US and almost every item on sale has a blatantly obvious warning printed on it somewhere to stop some corn-fed fuck-wit hurting himself or others and getting an undeserved pay day!
Enliven @ Jul 10th 2007 6:01AM
I understand the manual says don't move the console but why does no other console have this problem?
Basically there's a problem with some of the drives and instead of fixing it Microsoft place the onus on the consumer to ensure optimal conditions for their defective product to work.
That's just not right. If a manufacturer advised to place a tv next to an open window to prevent overheating would that be acceptable? I don't think it would be.
Watership @ Jul 10th 2007 10:25AM
No other console has this problem due to PHYSICS. The 360 dvd drive runs at 12x speed. The centrifugal force that a dvd spinning at that speed, resists any change in orientation, and when that happens, it tries to retain it's orientation when you move the box. They've reduced the impact, but you just can't defeat physics. PS3 has a 2x speed drive, and I'm sure the Wii's drive doesn't move very fast.
tuan @ Jul 10th 2007 1:36PM
sorry watership but stop being a stupid fanboy. the ps3's dvd drive also runs at 12x. and i do not get any scratches on any of my ps2 games i still play on the dang thing... [waiting for warhawk] ^.^
Supino @ Jul 10th 2007 6:28AM
On thing is for sure; the original XBOX was quality hardware compared to the 360.
I am surprised how robust the PS3 and Wii have turned out so far. especially the PS3 with so many new components.
I love my 360, but all this is a little sad.
FordGTGuy @ Jul 10th 2007 6:30AM
This will never go through because of the Manufacturer Warranty in the back of the Xbox 360 Game booklet.
That says that if the game disc doesn't perform like it said it would in the first 90 days that Microsoft will replace the game. If it cannot be replaced or repaired Microsoft has to pay you the equal amount of money you paid for the game. I'm going through this crap with Microsoft right now trying to get them to give me the money for my broken Forza Motorsport 2 disc.
FrankTheCrank @ Jul 10th 2007 6:52AM
This is friggin HORRIBLE!!
If this doesn't affect month to month sales, than this is bizzaro world.
This is not going to be good for M$. First the admission by Microsoft that their hardware is crap, then they slap a 3 year warranty to try to sweeten the pot, now a class action lawsuit?
Sony's engineer must be laughing at this right now. Ken Kutigari is having the last laugh.
Shit, my Dreamcast is still working fine and Sega rushed to market to try to beat PS2.
360 Confidence Level is at a 2 out of 10 stars right now. M$ get your act together!!!
Spongie @ Jul 10th 2007 7:16AM
Class action lawsuits only benefit lawyers. Legal extortion, they make millions while the people drawn into the lawsuit get pennies...
BananaBoat @ Jul 10th 2007 7:12AM
I remember when the 360 came out and there was a (softly muted) outcry that the thing scratched disks. Almost 2 years to the day, and I've yet to see a single scratch on any disc played in my launch Xbox 360. Then again, I've never seen the red ring of death either, and according to some folks that actually happens too. It's amazing though, because out of the 10 or so people I know that have 360's, not one of them has ever had the red ring of death. Couldn't tell you if they've had scratched disks or not though. Needless to say, Microsoft's lawyers will probably beat this guy senseless, and then offer him 50k in hush money or something.
Peaefuloutrage @ Jul 10th 2007 7:24AM
@Enliven
I can understand being upset if your system scratches discs during normal operation, but moving the console while it is on is downright stupid. The xbox is not a walkman and is not designed to be moved while a disc is spinning in a 12X DVD-ROM drive. I would suspect that most people realize how stupid it is to do just that, and don't speak up when they change their system from vertical to horizontal (or vice versa). I had a lapse in judgement and had the ethernet cable where someone could trip over it (so someone who wasn't expecting it to be there did), which caused my 360 to fall 3' and scratch a ring in a demo disc. The disc and the 360 still worked, but I wouldn't blame MS for my stupidity (sometimes otherwise sane people do stupid things).
And I know Joystick now has a reply function, but I just digged your post so it wouldn't let me.
Enliven @ Jul 10th 2007 8:57AM
Fortunately my 360 has never scratched a disc so i'm not upset. Just bemused.
I can't think of a console that has ever scratched discs to the extent the 360 has (although the proliferation of the internet may account for how quickly and how far these anecdotes travel).
I believe this Kassa program discovered that disc stabilizers were found to be missing on the drives that scratched the discs they tested. Even pc optical drives incorporate these and I can't think of a more unwieldy, static piece of electronics that incorporates a drive than the average desktop pc.
There really is no accounting for human stupidity. It's the mark of a good, well built product that this golden rule is observed.
It's not good enough to state the user must place it horizontally (when every piece of Microsoft advertising displays the 360 standing vertically as it was designed to do so) and don't move it whilst in operation. Not when the stipulation has arisen due to MS cutting corners.
The problem may not be as wide spread as believed but it exists and it exists due to poor workmanship.
Anyway that be my opinion and i'm done :p
Peace out.
Ian Von Porter @ Jul 10th 2007 7:40AM
Wow.. just wow.
The RRoD Class Action is just around the corner.. its inevitable now. No matter how it turns out, the important thing is that some lawyers are going to make a lot of money :/
Brian Alexander @ Jul 10th 2007 7:47AM
Let's all sing it together kids: it's not a class action lawsuit until a judge makes it class action. This here is a lawsuit brought by Jorge Brouwer that's seeking class-action status. Also, the $5 million figure means nothing. If this ever makes it to trial a jury will decide the damages. Lawyers put those big numbers in lawsuits to attract headlines.
pakit2 @ Jul 10th 2007 7:55AM
That's why I'm afraid to play my psp, because it might scratch the disk....lol
zwarrior @ Jul 10th 2007 8:01AM
Did he complain to Microsoft and sent his 360 to them first? That would be the logical thing to do, for a person who isnt greedy and who's not out to get rich quick without working hard for it.
zwarrior @ Jul 10th 2007 8:02AM
I wonder if any idiot tried to sue Nintendo when we were blowing inside our NES and its catriges
Jake @ Jul 10th 2007 8:07AM
A few things.
One. Disc scratching, not counting moving the console while it is running, is a very uncommon occurence. Perhaps one of the drives they use in some of their systems scratches discs.
Two. MS could probably seek damages from that particular drive supplier. They buy the drive from the supplier under the agreement that it works. If it is a scratcher, and MS is sued because of it, they can probably seek damages as well.
Three. This is being blown way out of proportion by certain fandorks. Anyone can file a lawsuit. This thing may be thrown out of court or only end up with 10 plaintiffs for all we know. In that case, MS would just give the plaintiffs money for 360's and games, which the lawyers would basically keep all of anyways.
SnapperDragon @ Jul 10th 2007 5:32PM
Well, my 360 seems to have started scratching the disc on the outside. From what I can tell, it happens when I power it on with the disc in there. I get this weird griding sound for a split second as it's powering up. I took out the DVD and it's got the start of that ring of scratches around the outside.
I'll no longer shut it down with the disc in there I guess. Mine already got replaced once due to RROD just 13 days after the original 90 day warranty expired. Had it plugged into a basic surge protector.
Since the replacement last October and lots of gameplay with the unit plugged directly into the wall it's worked very well except for this new disc griding noise on poweron. Maybe time to take advantage of my Best Buy replacement plan.
zwarrior @ Jul 10th 2007 8:10AM
Look at page 2 of the lawsuit, looks like MS had the beginning of their conference speech stolen.
Nerd @ Jul 10th 2007 8:31AM
I am only a law student but this suit looks like a P.O.S. to me. Strict products liability??? You need more than mere economic loss for that. And isn't MS replacing the scratched discs? If so, then how exactly are these people damaged? I mean I know they're caused some inconvenience but a scratched video game disc isn't exactly an "inherently dangerous condition." This is merely a case of some dickhead lawyers looking to make a quick buck...the plaintiffs will end up with about $50 bucks in settlement to split among themselves.
All in all, this lawsuit will settle, with Plaintiff's attorneys no doubt stipulating "attorney's fees" as a reward, leaving all members of the class with about $50 bucks to split among themselves.
Nerd @ Jul 10th 2007 8:32AM
Sorry for the repeated second paragraph!
SnapperDragon @ Jul 10th 2007 5:36PM
Yes, even if the lawyers get all the money and the people with scratched disks nothing it's still good. Why? Because it still cost MS money. This should give them the idea that they need to not only focus on products that work as expected but to remedy the situation CORRECTLY and not let people hang out to dry waiting for their warranty to expire before the box fails.
MS, this is certainly not the way to win a console war. You had it in front of you, and now you are giving Sony another chance. Tsk tsk tsk.
sheppy @ Jul 10th 2007 8:37AM
This isn't exactly new. This will make class action suit number 5. The only question is if this one will continue or if Microsoft will quietly pay to make this one disappear as well.
Rob @ Jul 10th 2007 8:58AM
"C'mon, this is Microsoft, their soft-serve ice-cream budget for a holiday weekend probably exceeds five million smackers"
Exactly, that's probably the point. Big enough to be nice for one person, small enough that MS may just pay him off.
ALAIN PRINCIPE @ Jul 10th 2007 9:21AM
Geezeee.....$5 Mil for a scratched disk??? Lot's of crazy people out there! But a lot more NUTTY lawyers for sure!
The Wicker Man @ Jul 10th 2007 9:40AM
This is great, I hope these assholes have to replace these disks. I have little scratches on new games and I sure as S%*t dont move my console. Why was there not a clasp to hold the disk in place? CHEAP F*@ks cutting costs. This is what I hate about my 360: The annxiety of wondering when it will break down and how bad the breakdown will be. I know its comming. When there are 3 people in one town in a week thats fuc&8d. I love this system and all but I hope these corporate assjobs take it like the bitches they are.
SnapperDragon @ Jul 10th 2007 5:38PM
Yes, I agree with you, the not knowing when exactly the 360 will fail but knowing that it will fail is the problem.
MS is on a downward skid as far as credibility goes. It's a shame, because I like the 360 experience overall, just the hardware seems to suck.
Heliophage @ Jul 10th 2007 10:09AM
Wow, this is right in my backyard! I certainly hope some little asscheese living next door doesn't get $5M from some chance occurance.