Silicon Knights sues Epic over Unreal Engine 3 'inadequacies' [Update]

by Alexander Sliwinski { Jul 19th 2007 at 6:02PM }

The information is still coming in, but what we do know is that Silicon Knights, creator of the gratuitously delayed Too Human, is suing Epic Games, licensor of the Unreal Engine 3. Epic, who is best known for showing the power of the Unreal Engine 3 in their hit Gears of War, is being sued over "unspecified allegations" relating to the Unreal Engine 3. Mark Rein, VP of Epic says, "This morning we were served with a lawsuit by Silicon Knights. We believe the claims against us are unfounded and without merit and we intend to fully defend against them."

Currently the lawyers are ordering lockdown and Rein says he'll have no choice but to give a "no comment" for a while. Denis Dyack in a statement defends Silicon Knights' actions saying, "We stand behind everything in our complaint and believe it is highly unfortunate that Epic forced us into this situation ... Epic simply refuses to acknowledge the inadequacies of the Unreal Engine 3 code it provides to its licensees and refuses to accept the fact that its code has caused serious damage not only to Silicon Knights, but a number of other developers in the industry. We look forward to successful resolution of our claims in this court proceeding." This is going to get big and bad. At least this may shake out some of the issues other developers say they've been having with the UE3.

Update: More details from the lawsuit appended after the break.

Gamasutra has published an extensive analysis of the lawsuit. The main allegations against Epic involve late delivery of the latest versions of the Unreal 3.0 Engine. Silicon Knights claims that an iteration of the technology, originally promised to follow six months after the arrival of Xbox 360 development kits, arrived too late and effectively derailed its schedule and E3 2006 showing.

The Too Human developer points to Gears of War as evidence that Epic Games was withholding game-specific enhancements to the Unreal engine in order to give its own games preference. The suit notes, "Epic apparently was able to achieve a very usable version of the Engine for the Xbox 360 – the version that it kept to itself, for use only on its Gears of War game (as discussed below), to the detriment of Silicon Knights and Epic's other licensees... Epic's plan to avoid its obligations and hoard all of the necessary functionalities not only harmed Silicon Knights and all of Epic's other licensees in the industry, but also gave Epic a clearly unfair advantage in the industry." The suit goes on to say that "that Epic later provided nearly all the Gears of War code to all of its licensees, at no extra charge, in a belated effort at damage control."

Silicon Knights asserts that the constant delays have prompted it to phase out the Unreal engine and switch future games to a new engine entirely. "Progress on the Silicon Knights' Engine continues to date and, at this time, the Silicon Knights Engine is completely independent of Epic's Engine and certainly derives no benefit from the unworkable source code provided by Epic." The suit notes that "as development of the Silicon Knights Engine continues, the amount of code from Epic's Engine employed by Silicon Knights continues to decrease. After the release of Silicon Knights' Too Human, all Epic code will be removed from the Silicon Knights Engine."

Interestingly, Silicon Knights also licensed the PlayStation 3 variant of Epic's technology, most likely for use in its previously announced Sega project. "More recently, Epic has breached its Agreement with Silicon Knights yet again by missing the six-month deadline for release of an Engine that works on the Playstation 3. Final development kits for that console were released in and around mid-August, 2006, making the functional Engine due to Silicon Knights in February, 2007. Silicon Knights has received no such Engine from Epic."

One might venture that just such a situation may have caused Koei to abandon the PS3 version of Fatal Inertia -- despite Epic's own Unreal Tournament III gliding happily onto the PlayStation 3. It's irresponsible and impossible to draw conclusions at this point, though we'll surely hear much more about this situation in the coming weeks.

Tags: breakingnews, epic, lawsuit, siliconknights, TooHuman, UE3

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)

Bugger @ Jul 19th 2007 6:05PM

I can't get this game to work! GIVE ME MONEY!

JonnyBoy2U @ Jul 19th 2007 6:11PM

ZOMG! Whats going on here....

Is this the Age of Lawsuits or what?

And in other news...

ZOMG! OXM rumor: MGS4 on 360 a few months after PS3!
http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2007/07/19/oxm-rumor-mole-mgs4-on-360-months-after-ps3/

irpacynot @ Jul 26th 2007 12:46PM

This doesn't, at all, sound like a frivolous lawsuit. When you pay for something -- which, in this case, was obviously a huge investment -- and the folks you buy the product from decide to use it first, make a ton of money, and then give you your product late to the point of rendering it now useless, that might tend to piss some people off. It's also a form of theft, in the same way that someone at a job is "on the clock," but is standing around doing nothing or something un-job-related.

The jury's still out (it actually isn't even in yet), so we don't know what's true or not. But if the allegations are true, then Silicon Knights has every right in the world for recompense.

hvnlysoldr @ Jul 19th 2007 6:12PM

Boo Urns!

DWells55 @ Jul 19th 2007 6:13PM

"Hey guys, turns out we really blow at programming and can't get this game to go anywhere."
"Yeah... what do you propose?"
"Let's blame someone else."

Unreal Engine 3 is a perfectly good engine. Other companies seem to have no problem delivering quality results with it. Mass Effect, anyone? This just looks like a last-ditch pin-the-blame move by Silicon knights to cover for the "inadequacies" of their own programmers.

wichenroder @ Jul 19th 2007 7:28PM

so you`ve added code to unreal 3 and have played mass effect huh?

Mattias @ Jul 30th 2007 5:11PM

So you're a games programmer?

Corey Davis @ Jul 19th 2007 6:20PM

if that's true, I hope you die in a fire asap

Corey Davis @ Jul 19th 2007 6:20PM

I was responding to a harry potter spoiler (

Sceren @ Jul 19th 2007 6:15PM

I don't care because I only watch the movies, but if you're really spoiling book seven for all of the fan's you're a sorry son of a bitch.

Ian Von Porter @ Jul 19th 2007 6:15PM

I can see the trial now.. expert witness for the defense, Cliffy B... LMAO

Jose @ Jul 19th 2007 6:20PM

This is one of the most powerful engines currently being license: of course it's going to be hard as fuck to use it to build a game.

I guess they can't all be Source :P

Rubix42 @ Jul 19th 2007 6:18PM

Good two sided argument.
On one hand, what about all of the other games using Unreal that looks amazing?

On the other hand, most of the UE3 games are being delayed. Mass Effect, Fatal Inertia to name 2 that are not Too Human.

JonnyBoy2U @ Jul 19th 2007 6:18PM

Hmmmn we should probably wait a bit before we choose sides right?

I mean yeah Epic created Gears and it was awesome. But Too Human looks like its going to be excellent and I don't think SK is the type of company that would just randomly decide to sue another company without a valid reason...

But yeah this could end up being really bad for them if its thrown out of court or they're proven to be wrong, etc.

ExMcloud @ Jul 19th 2007 6:23PM

Unreal Engine 3 is a perfectly good engine. Other companies seem to have no problem delivering quality

Actually several developers have had problems with the Unreal Engine but since the good out weighs the bad they just sucked it up and went around the problems. So yeah Silicon Knights could have done the same thing but they didn't....

Sceren @ Jul 19th 2007 6:28PM

Do you work for said developers? Because I do work for one of them, and believe me, the Unreal Engine 3 receives so many updates, its very difficult to keep your project on track without delays. There are several inadequacies with the engine and they are the reason several major titles have been pushed back. Including the speed bumps we've endured with the milestones in regards to one of our projects.

losttoys @ Jul 19th 2007 6:20PM

I can understand if he working on a PS3 title, but Dyack is working on the Xbox 360, which is home to Unreal 3.

Daniel @ Jul 19th 2007 6:22PM

Hmmm---I would be inclined to say that Silicon Nights is desperately trying to blame someone else for their troubles, except---have there been any other games besides Fatal Inertia (??!?!) having trouble?

Tony @ Jul 19th 2007 6:23PM

Somehow I doubt SK's problems are as simple as "it's hard to use!", but power doesn't necessarily equate with complexity. One of the goals of any project like this -- I would hope -- would be for it to be as easy to use as possible. It only makes sense.

I do wonder who these other developers SK mentions are, however.

Nate @ Jul 19th 2007 6:24PM

They screw up the game: blame Epic!

Matthew @ Jul 19th 2007 6:26PM

It's pretty simple why they are suing Epic. They didn't get what they paid for, and its affecting their ability to get their product out on time.

"Hey guys, turns out we really blow at programming and can't get this game to go anywhere."

No, its more like. "We don't want to waste any programming time/delayed product time on something UE3 was supposed to provide for us."

Eric Baker @ Jul 19th 2007 6:31PM

If I were Epic, I'd just ask Silicon Knights to do what every unsatisfied customer does with the product they're not happy with: return it. then Silicon Knights can go shop around for a different engine that DOES meet ther expectations, or just build one themselves. Too Human has been in development for like 13 years anyway, what's a few more? Alternatively, Silicon Knights can just stop whining. It's not like their games are famous for looking great anyway, just for PLAYING great, and I think the UE3 engine has proven it can at least handle that much.

eldee @ Jul 19th 2007 6:54PM

@Eric: It's not that easy. If I go to Best Buy and purchase a TV and it doesn't work, the worst case scenario is that I've missed an episode of Man Vs Wild and burned a quarter tank of gas driving back to the store. In this situation though, to scrap basically all of the engine tie-in code would be like rebooting the entire project, which costs hundreds of thousands of dollars in man hours and licensing fees, and would essentially scuttle the entire project.

I'm not saying Epic is at fault, or that SK is in the right, I'm just saying that if Epic didn't deliver on something they promised to SK, and SK can prove it in court, Epic is justifiably liable for the damage caused.

Mr Khan @ Jul 19th 2007 6:25PM

Silicon Knights always struck me as relatively incompetent

I mean, in all the time they worked on GC, they made Eternal Darkness and the MGS Remake, i think (which rumor says is part of the reason Nintendo dumped 'em)

Of course, there does seem to be problems, but this could help against the vast developer trend of relying on UE3 to solve all their problems

jay @ Jul 19th 2007 6:26PM

A lot of commentators here seem to know the exact details of what's going on, please put Joystiq out of it's misery and tell them whats up ;)

Since there is no news other than "X suing Y" I suppose I can't offer an opinion other than stop the lawsuits!

john @ Jul 19th 2007 6:29PM

So the game is going to suck. Great.

James @ Jul 19th 2007 6:33PM

Well he is a bit of a drama queen. I'm really interested in finding out what this is about. Quite the video gameland scandal.

JaeVicious @ Jul 19th 2007 6:34PM

Jake @ Jul 19th 2007 6:34PM

Everyone assumes that SK has no legitimate claim. Even though other devs have made Unreal work, that doesn't mean SK has no grounds for suit. Perhaps the Engine agreement says that you can do certain things that other devs have avoided while SK tried to do them and the engine wouldn't do it.

I don't know. I tend to side with Epic on this one without hearing any more information. But, you never know. There could be some explicit promises that the Epic made in writing that the engine cannot perform. Perhaps these promises can be proved untrue, like the engine can handle X MB of texture while doing this and this and blah blah and then when you try it it don't work.

The court will probably end up getting this right. Neither party will win financially, but the lawyers sure will.

Crashman06 @ Jul 19th 2007 6:35PM

Yeah, this game is never going to be finished.

Psaakyrn @ Jul 19th 2007 6:48PM

You know, there could be completely valid points in this lawsuit.

Like if for example, Epic claims this engine can put out 1 mil polygons at 60 FPS, but in actual usage, stutters occasionally due to a programming flaw which forces the system to do a memory dump once in a while.

MWHDGHS @ Jul 19th 2007 6:52PM

I really think SK jumped the shark with this game. I can't remember, I think it was one print pubs (maybe EGM?) had an exclusive to cover this game more than a year ago. Then when they got their hands on a playable build, they said it was the worst thing ever (SK screwed the proverbial pooch). If I remember correctly, it was at that time Too Human disappeared from the radar, until last week with that incredibly circa 1997 trailer.
This game will definitely not fill the hype and will definitely suck. Maybe they're just trying to recoup losses, or maybe they're stalling until they can fix this.

Bill=Pwnt @ Jul 19th 2007 10:16PM

I was thinking the same thing. Somethings fishy here

Josh @ Jul 19th 2007 6:56PM

hmm... This interesting, Eternal Darkness was a really, really good game. and epic has made some really good games, Gears of War. However Gears of War Online Component was, no matter what anybody says, a big steaming pile of shit... yes the game play was awesome and if your were playing lan it was great. but the bullet lag and EXTREME host advantage was completely HORRIBLE.. making the new Unreal and GOW2(whenever it's annouced) rentals for me, before i buy. Maybe this is why SK is suing Epic... because of the crappy online portion, if so more power to them because Rainbow Six Vegas had the same problem with the fucking horrible bullet lag, although not as bad as GOW, if SK had the same problems with lag, more power to them.

Po0py @ Jul 19th 2007 7:02PM

It's all early days yet but I will say that Denis Dyack is a nutcase who can't accept when he fucks it up. He's thrown tantrums before and it's no surprise that he wants to throw another one.

Matthew Walsh @ Jul 19th 2007 7:14PM

I hate to bring up other forums, but the reaction at NeoGaf has changed from one of ridicule of SK to serious belief that SK have a point. There are a couple of quotes from other UE3 licensees that seem to back up SK's claims.

GodisaMyth @ Jul 19th 2007 7:19PM

If this were a crappy developer, I will call this nonsense. SK is a very good developer. I am sure they thought this thru b4 filing this lawsuit.

I guess you can kiss this game bye bye.

demon @ Jul 19th 2007 7:23PM

This game has been "on the way" since the Playstation - then it hopped to the GameCube, now the 360. Now Silicon Knights is whining that UE3 isn't good enough - c'mon guys, 10+ years on, and you still have almost nothing to show for it other than bitching at Epic for their engine, which you just (fairly recently) adopted for the game? I think you need to start looking within, not blaming those without.

Mr Khan @ Jul 20th 2007 5:29PM

Its humorous to observe that the game, like "Duke Nukem Forever" is cursed to development hell because of its name

Humans are flawed, and will procrastinate, are prone to arrogance and pride, et al, a game that is "Too Human" has these flaws in spades. much like how Duke Nukem Forever is taking, well, forever

Vegan @ Jul 19th 2007 7:27PM

Can you really sue someone because their engine isn't good or because it's not easy to work with? I can't sue a restaurant if I order something I don't like. Can developers sue Sony for making the PS3 difficult to program for?

Gnome @ Jul 19th 2007 8:01PM

I'm pretty sure you can through small claims court, although the judge will probably dismiss your case. Or maybe the food sucked because someone spat in it and you ended up with some venereal disease, then that's some easy money in the bank. :)

mn @ Jul 20th 2007 2:16PM

No, but you can sue for breach of contract. If the licensee contract made some claims that were never realized and if scheduled dates were never met, then they have a case. It's not a matter of the engine being "good". It's a matter of the engine (and the engine maker) meeting contractual obligations.

Pureshooter @ Jul 19th 2007 7:33PM

It's really crazy to take a side or assume anything at this point. Silicon Knights are excellent programmers, so "They suck and are trying to blame it on someone else" is unlikely. What this will probably come down to is that Epic sold SK on the engine by giving misleading or fraudulent information...or maybe they didn't. SK banked on something, got something else, and only time will tell why that happened.

hvnlysoldr @ Jul 19th 2007 7:36PM

If you read the complaint they did. Which cost them a year of development.

JonnyBoy2U @ Jul 19th 2007 7:36PM

But like demon pointed out this game has been in development for 10+ years....

Thats sorta ridiculous. And now that they're so close to releasing it (or so it seems) they're going to blame Epic. Doesn't sound right to me. In fact it reeks of bullshit.

But time will tell. I hope the game comes out and lives up to the hype cuz its one of the reasons I bought my 360 Elite.

aylera @ Jul 19th 2007 7:57PM

Read the rest of the article, it has been updated;

SK is suing them on the basis that Epic did not release the UE3 SDK at the time that they promised. Epic said it would be available 6 months after launch, but it wasn't available until another 6 months after the supposed due date.

So essentially, that's why Too Human looked like shit at E3 2006, and Gears got all sorts of "Best of Show" awards.

Then the next part of the lawsuit is;

--Furthermore, according to a press release just sent to GameDaily BIZ, SK "has lost revenue as a result of the considerable delay in developing its video game for the Xbox 360, Too Human, because Unreal Engine 3, a game engine licensed from Epic, did not work as Epic represented it would and, moreover, Epic has been unable or unwilling to fix it."--

Which is possibly Epic not fulling explaining what the engine does, and not helping SK rectify various issues during development.

-shrug- There's not enough facts to pass judgment, but people have already begun to do so.

REUYL @ Jul 19th 2007 7:58PM

Duke Nukem Forever...

kabes @ Jul 19th 2007 8:00PM

BIA: Hell's Highway - delayed
Bioshock - delayed
Elveon - delayed/cancelled
Fatal inertia - delayed
Huxley- delayed
Lost Odyssey - delayed ?
Mass effect - delayed
MOH - delayed
Stranglehold - delayed
Rainbow vegas - ps3 version delayed
Too human - delayed
Turok - delayed
Frame City Killer - cancelled
Endless Saga - cancelled

(ripped from neogaf)

polly @ Jul 19th 2007 10:45PM

Holy shit! Delayed games? That's unheard of. Unreal engine must really suck!

This game is vaporware.

I wasn't that impressed with the trailer anyways.

Brian @ Jul 19th 2007 8:02PM

I read the complete suit at Kotaku and if this below is true, then we have a ball game.

76. The problems created by Epic's withholding of such enhancements and
optimizations on the dubious grounds of them being "game-specific" became especially
pronounced when such withholding impacted the specific benchmarks known as "Technical
Certification Requirements" (or "TCRs") that every videogame must meet before it can be
played on a particular game console. For example, Microsoft imposes certain TCR's for games
that are to be run on the Xbox 360. One very basic TCR is simply how long it takes the
videogame to start-up. For Silicon Knights, as of May, 2006, the Engine had been unable to
meet even that simple start-up requirement, still taking over twice as long as Microsoft requires
in its Xbox 360 TCRs.

77. Another of Microsoft's TCRs is that the system User Interface ("UI") can be
rendered at least every 66 milliseconds at all times. As of at least as late as May, 2006, it was
clear to Silicon Knights that the Engine and its renderer could not satisfy that TCR.

78. However, when Epic was asked what was being done to bring the Engine into
compliance with these fundamental TCR requirements from the Xbox 360 manufacturer (which
again, Epic warranted to Silicon Knights it would meet), Epic responded that, though it was at
that very time working toward meeting the TCRs in Gears of War, that level of functionality
would not "make it to the engine level, as it is custom to the game."