Dave Perry: Wii won't last, gamers want prettier games
by John Bardinelli 
{ Jul 21st 2007 at 4:30PM }
While the Wii surfs the waves of success, Shiny founder Dave Perry says the party won't last. Why? "Gamers are attracted to beautiful looking games. When a game comes out - a game like a Halo or something, something they haven't seen before - they'll drop everything and they'll drop their Wii controllers when it does.". And while waggle control is a step in the right direction, Perry notes that he doesn't feel it's the "final solution" to user interfaces.We can see Perry's point, but a gorgeous game doesn't need a Cell processor to exist. You can, in fact, create a beautiful game on a weak system, or craft a butt-ugly title on a PS3. The Wii may not dish out the horsepower that makes it easier to push the graphics wagon further, but what makes games gorgeous is the artistic direction, not tech specs.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
kraoro @ Jul 21st 2007 4:33PM
"When a game comes out - a game like a Halo or something, something they haven't seen before"
All.Credibility.Lost.
comtar @ Jul 22nd 2007 12:07AM
What's ironic in his statement, is that people are picking up the Wii for the very same reason he gives that people would drop it... The reason why people are picking up the Wii and the DS is because there are games on those systems NOBODY HAS SEEN BEFORE.
Mr. Picklesworth @ Jul 22nd 2007 12:47AM
Hell, even Microsoft admits that Halo looks like pure crap.
http://www.gamesforwindows.com/en-US/AboutGFW/Pages/DirectX10.aspx
They use a screenshot from Halo (alongside a render of the art assets they use in Crysis), to show somehow that DirectX 9 is dated (that a new revision of a graphics API magically gives developers access to prettier skin shaders and modelling tools). Of course, this a completely stupid claim (Halo is the equivalent of the Quake in terms of facial detail), but that's beyond the point...
Rayman is a fantastic looking game on the Wii, and so is Wii Sports. They both keep within the limits of the system. They look sharp because the artists planned ahead instead of creating highly detailed media then rushing to "optimize" it all after realizing that it runs terribly.
And by Optimize, I don't mean 'rethink the art direction to fit simpler graphics hardware with style', I mean 'quickly shrink every texture to half its size, run the meshes through an automatic mesh simplifier, lower the draw distance and add fog, fog, fog!'
severian00 @ Jul 23rd 2007 12:10AM
I believe before you suddenly dismiss that statement you should think about it. He didn't say Halo 2 or 3, he said Halo. At the time that Halo came out, everyone said that it was a mistake, because first person have rarely been done right on a console. Halo was groundbreaking for it's time and singlehandedly made the Xbox, the FPSBox it became.
jitty @ Jul 21st 2007 5:22PM
While it is true the art direction can make a game look good even on a weaker system. There's a limit. An N64 game will always be capable of bet expressing the art than any SNES game is capable of. Same with wii and ps3/360. The ps3 or 360 will always be capable of creating a more beautiful and expressive games than the wii will ever be capable of.
Jitty @ Jul 21st 2007 5:24PM
Edit: "be capable of better expressing..."
Platy @ Jul 21st 2007 5:34PM
ff6 made me cry
i REALLY doubd that any ps3 game (even the ff ones) will as beautiful and as expressive like those little sprites with text
it is all a matter of point of view =P
hvnlysoldr @ Jul 21st 2007 6:11PM
Have you seen how expressive Wind Waker Link is? And Super Paper Mario made me cry.
EclipseCDN @ Jul 22nd 2007 12:14AM
I actually somewhat agree with this point, but it needs to be elaborated on. I think it's important to note that in terms of sheer scope and scale the PS3 and 360 are simply capable of much more ambitious things. Forget about graphics for a second, what about how the console physically simulates the world? I doubt the Wii is capable of simulating physics the way the 360 and PS3 can.
One other thing too - I have a descent AV system (not overkill) and I'm pissed off to no end that the Wii lacks optical out AND it lacks dolby 5.1 support. What the hell is with the Pro Logic II crap? I mean, seriously. That stuff was behind the times when GCN launched against the Xbox. So chalk that up too - the 360 and PS3 are capable of sounding far superior.
Lastly graphics - they make a difference. Artisic direction is the above all trumph card, but Gears of War isn't remotely possible on the Wii. The world that is created could not be communicated to the player properly with that lower end graphics hardware.
Another poster stated earlier on the FF6 made him cry, even though it's just simple sprites with text. He's totally right, FF6 is a very emotional experience dispite the very dated graphics. Thing is, back then graphics were so bad that a lot of work was left to your imagination. Nowadays nothing is left to imagine so the onus is on the content developer to engage us. One other thing too - FF6 had one of the best stories ever and that in my mind is the trump card that trumps all other features. Dreamfall gameplay wise wasn't very good. I loved every waking second of it because of it's amazing characters, voice acting and story.
Rubix42 @ Jul 21st 2007 4:36PM
I guess that is one way to look at it. When I first got the Wii, I was a little bummed at the graphics in Zelda. However, as time goes on, I get more excited to play the new Wii games than anything else. It is not only a new game, it is always a fun new control system to get used to.
It's nice to have a new way to play games, and while I agree that it is not a perfect interface, until we get to the point where we can enter games "Matrix" style, I think it is a wonderful step in the right direction!
gLitterbug @ Jul 21st 2007 4:36PM
"but what makes games gorgeous is the artistic direction, not tech specs."
amen
octoberasian @ Jul 21st 2007 6:16PM
So true, so very true.
You must ask yourself:
"Does the gameplay match the graphics in terms of the effort and time put into developing it?"
Graphics isn't everything. The point of playing a game is to have fun and enjoy it. They are a supplement, not complement to them.
A Wii system may not have all the bells and whistles, but give it a push in the right direction, and the put effort into the artistic direction and creativity, then the game will look good regardless how many polygons the system is outputting.
For example, Mario Galaxy looks impressive as it is. It is both creatively and imaginatively designed. And, the majority of the games coming out of Nintendo and a few third party developers follow that same paradigm, to put gameplay ahead of graphics, to get the most of out of the system through artistic direction and creativity.
Psaakyrn @ Jul 22nd 2007 4:54AM
Not quite true. No matter how much processing power (or lack thereoff) the Wii has, it's not going to be able to display HD, and thus will always suffer from lower potential resolutions. In terms of graphics, unless you're using pixel graphics, the resolution will always play a factor on how pretty the game can be, and in this case, the Wii is on the losing end.
Having said that, unless you've a HD capable TV, You won't be able to bet the maximum possible resolution anyway.
mark @ Jul 24th 2007 7:30PM
Very true!
--
http://free-wii-nintendo.blogspot.com/
Stef Geiger @ Jul 21st 2007 4:36PM
I'm inclined to agree. Yes, art direction is a huge factor - a game like God of War to me is still prettier than some next gen titles, but in the case of the Wii, people are going to tire of seeing low resolution games with horrible aliasing issues that don't really occur in HD games.
Question @ Jul 22nd 2007 9:20PM
ahh pseudo-developers, what does he know about good games, his creations at shiny were subpart and his at acclaim hasn't moved anything decent since mortal kombat.
here's my opinion, I have lots of headshots on my website so that makes my opinion matter.
david perry
kimoy @ Jul 21st 2007 4:47PM
who is this idiot.. arent people getting tired of sayingh the wii wont last.. analysis said by late 2007 sales will slow.. they havent even started to show any signs of slowing and will not especially in the holiday season and the big 3 coming out...i can bet you after this holiday season when the wii's install base is between 14 to 16 million... the 3rd party support (which is already starting to heat up for the wii) is going to get better and the wii will stay in 1st place.. graphics do not equal success.. games do.. the ps2 is a perfect example.. look how it is outselling the 360 and the ps3
mike @ Jul 21st 2007 5:00PM
I AGREE. but wii games are mad garbage, yes its still selling. So it looks like your wrong. And if it was about the games, then the 360 would win hands down this holiday season. Even if wii does hit 16 million by 2008, the 360 will be at 20 million by then, especially after halo3, so no way wii is taking first. I also predict a steady decline in wii sales come janurary 2008 (after holiday) And by holiday 2008, will anybody be asking for a wii?
TDub301 @ Jul 21st 2007 6:40PM
Are you crazy? Halo 3 will be big, don't get me wrong. But it can't compete with MP3, Galaxy, and Brawl. The Wii is already about to overtake the 360 in overall sales. Then come January, Nintendo hits us with Mario Kart online? The Wii will be selling out through March at easy. 360 will not keep up, even with it's precious overhyped Halo.
mike @ Jul 21st 2007 8:39PM
halo 3 cant compete with MP 3? where have you been. halo 3 has already sold more pre-orders then mp 1 and 2 combined sold.
Lijik @ Jul 21st 2007 9:13PM
How the hell does the preorders MP1 and 2 apply to the preorders of MP3?
Hey guyz 1m us1n fanb0i l0gicz!!11 Teh prorderez of Brawl r h1gh3r dan dat of teh halo 1'z preorderz, so obviouzlee da w11 iz da w1nn4r.
Andy O. @ Jul 23rd 2007 2:40PM
"Who is this idiot..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Perry
Dude, know your gaming icons!
Geez!
Oh, wait.... No, he is an idiot. My mistake, carry on.
DoggySpew @ Jul 21st 2007 4:47PM
David Perry eh ? The guy that made fantastic games, and then...let Infogrames/Atari buy and totally ruin the company.
DS1O9 @ Jul 21st 2007 4:49PM
Same comments every week, wii sales still go up. Why? because no one really cares what they think.
Aberu @ Jul 21st 2007 4:51PM
"but what makes games gorgeous is the artistic direction, not tech specs."
Tech specs can enhance artistic direction, as is shown when comparing Final Fantasy VIII and Final Fantasy X let's say. Dragon Quest VII and Dragon Quest VIII. Valkyrie Profile and Valyrie Profile 2. etc...
Once in a new generation as well, once SETTLED in, the bar has been raised, and thus, when games come out 3-4 years from now, the Wii will look way behind standard. ATM people don't feel like they are missing out because we are still in the tail end of the PS2 generation.
The other thing you must consider is the incredibly fast-growing sales numbers of HDTV's. That alone shows how shallow Nintendo's view is. The generation has just begun anyways, I think I get tired of seeing predictions and analysis every fucking day. amirite?
Eric @ Jul 21st 2007 4:53PM
The Wii is a piece of crap. It is just yet another Nintendo gimmick which goes ALL the way back to R.O.B. on the NES. This is the second time, however, that have have based the whole system on a gimmick (first time being the Virtual Boy, and we all know how that turned out). It is popular. It is a fad. It will last as long as the fad, plain and simple. This hunk of crap is totally out of gamers', and the gaming industry's, for that matter, hands. The Pokemon craze has lasted for 12 years. It's not what it once was, but it still sells, and it sells big. His comments are correct, but pointless. It is not hardcore gamers that are buying this system and its games. I recently bought one for my son. The most interesting thing about it is the forcast channel... Hell, at least the PS3 is a Blu-ray player. If I had bought it for me, it would have gone right back to the store the same day. It is useful, though, for the VC for those people too young to have played many of these games back in their day. Too much NES and not enough of the good stuff though. The TG16 was the precurser of the best system made to date (the TurboDuo). It's nice to see it remembered. And personally, I HATE the controls. The graphics actually look pretty sharp to be in 480 (ick) and running off a glorified gamecube. The controls are just a gimmick. Most of the games could be played easier and better with standard controls. Definition of gimmick.
sirlaitier @ Jul 21st 2007 5:06PM
Err...I'm a hardcore gamer and I bought the system and its games.
But as other people have said, people have been predicting the slow-down of Wii sales for quite some time now...and...looks like we're still rolling.
I understand and agree that there are weaknesses involved with the Wii, but I'm willing to look past them because I enjoy using it (which SHOULD be all that matters...we've become graphics whores, people! ...but I digress).
I'm also tired of people calling the control system a gimmick (and everyone who does it thinks they've constructed the final argument on the matter...LAWL Wii = gimmick FTW), because I think the controls for Madden 07 for the Wii made that game. Can we agree the series had grown rather stale? The motion controls are EXACTLY what the next generation of Madden needed.
It's only a GIMMICK if the DEVELOPERS ALLOW it to be, folks. There are ways to integrate the motion control into a game, some people just haven't figured them out yet.
Anyway, getting back to the original article, I'm sorry, but I can't really remember David Perry doing anything interesting besides Earthworm Jim.
iRobot @ Jul 22nd 2007 7:50AM
Um... sour grapes?
Crono @ Jul 23rd 2007 11:09AM
Virtual Boy failed because it was only half finished when released, not because it was a gimmick. Look up some wikipedia on Virtual Boy. Hardware development resources were pulled halfway through the project to concentrate on N64 hardware.
Given more time, Vboy could have been workable. As it stood, it should never have been released.
Striderhayasa @ Jul 21st 2007 4:55PM
John...you hit the nail right on the head. It's all about art direction and Dave Perry is one to talk after the fiasco that is the games based on the Matrix. It kills me how people go on and on about how the latest tech is needed to make a gorgeous game. I guess Dave must not have seen God of War 2 which is still one of the best looking games this gen and it's running on last gen hardware.
As far as the Wii is concerned, it hasn't been out for a year and we haven't seen the best the Wii has to offer. GC still ran Metroid Prime and RE4 as well as many other games that were graphically some of the best of the last gen and it wasn't the most powerful hardware on the block. Even DS pulled off Metroid Prime Hunters on dated hardware and lack of specs sure as hell isn't slowing down the DS gravy train.
Dave Can talk all the bs he wants but I saw BulletWitch on 360 as well as Dead Rising and a few other "next gen" games that look like total shit. Next gen hardware doesn't guarantee next gen results. While he's talking loud and not saying much, I'll be eagerly waiting for Metroid Prime 3, Mario Galaxy and SSBB.
I'll listen to Dave when he has something real.
Silver @ Jul 21st 2007 4:56PM
One word: Super Mario Galaxy. OK, that's 3 words.
Great special effects don't necessarily make a great movie, nor do great graphics necessarily make a great game. The Wii will do just fine.
kimoy @ Jul 21st 2007 4:57PM
@ aberu.. the HD penetrations is about 20 percent.. nintendo already said when the Hd is higher.. they will release a console with the capabilities.. iam like the only person on my block with a HD set.. and another thing.. you said in 3 to 4 years the wii will look outdated.. by that time nintendo will be launching a new console with better graphics and HD capabilities..
muppetmeth @ Jul 21st 2007 5:07PM
I agree with him. Nintendo just knows how to market.
muppetmeth @ Jul 21st 2007 5:10PM
Oops, and I forgot to say that people will be tired of Mario, Metroid, and Zelda eventually. Most other Wii games are only fun when you're drunk.
2ez @ Jul 21st 2007 5:18PM
Yeah just like people are tired of War Simulator 8, or howabout Race Driving 10? No no, what about Sci-Fi Epic Post-Apocalyptic Future FPS 6?
Platy @ Jul 21st 2007 5:24PM
...i still play mario and zelda ..
and by that i mean mario3, super mario world, mario 64, ocarina of time, wind waker, minish cap ....
and not forget that when those come out .. things like resident evil and final fantasy will come out =D
Curmeo @ Jul 21st 2007 4:59PM
gamers prefer better graphics/performance but also solid online services. Wii's online service is a joke and embarrasment to this industry as far as im concerned. if the last-gen Dreamcast and PS2 had better online services than the "new-gen" Wii does, thats really a shame. and if history is any indication, Wii's online service will never be worthy of being compared to PSN and Xbox Live.
Wii is selling right now because of the low price and motion remote, but once PS3 and 360 get cheaper they will start outselling Wii, prolly by 2009.
i dont even care if Wii ends up selling the most hardware by the end of this gen. i know the quality experience will always be with PS3 and 360.
Dale @ Sep 17th 2007 4:18PM
The PS2's online service was horrible too, let's not kid ourselves. Dreamcast and Xbox both owned it in terms of user experience.
jay @ Jul 21st 2007 5:01PM
Oh, I suppose this is how the PS1 and 2 won last gen= the best graphics. Because really I didn't know.
What's this about every PS3/360 game outselling any Wii game. Oh yea! It never happened.
Hmm. This guys outspoken words made me lose all respect for him, whatever was there in the first place.
Curmeo @ Jul 21st 2007 5:08PM
Unlike Wii, both PSX and PS2 were the most powerful home consoles at the time of their launch. this was one of the main reasons both consoles were able to survive long-term and sell 100 million plus units each.
Wii launched in 2006, yet has the hardware of a 4 year old glorified GameCube.
t_m @ Jul 22nd 2007 12:04PM
but both were quickly overtaken by their competitors in terms of power... however their large lead in installed users meant that the other consoles couldn't overtake them.. even if they were more powerful.
The Wii is fast approaching the biggest installed userbase... if it gets there its gonna be hardto overtake.
lostprophet @ Jul 22nd 2007 9:12PM
I want to add this. Alot of the people buying Wii's are high schoolers with alot of expendable income. My friends who have Wii's are mostly planning to ask their parents for the 360 and Halo 3 come Christmas time, or to buy it themselves after the price drop. The Wii isn't really that big of a deal; it's just like,"Oooh I don't have a console yet, but I have this cash burning a whole in my pocket. ima get a Wii." The Wii is a glorified ornament to them. In my opinion, the 360 train won't start thundering down the tracks until the price drop, and the release of Halo 3.
severian00 @ Jul 23rd 2007 12:25AM
Actually look at the sales numbers and you see very few Wii games. 360 dominates the game sales charts because the their rediculously high attachment rate, somthing on the order of 7+ per console. The Wii is scraping by with an attach of 1.8. The reason why is because grandma and soccer mom are buying the system for Wiisports. They may never buy another game except for some crap party game in a year or so. That does not make a successful system. It almost guarantees that the Wii while an initial success will eventually go the way of the Gamecube. Bigtime 3rd party games don't get to play on systems with low attach rates. The developer is better off spending 100k on a party game than 5 mil on a AAA title when they know that the party game will sell better with the soccer mom crowd.
Chris @ Jul 21st 2007 5:02PM
Good thing this guy had the amazing insight to mention that this isn't the final step in user interface. Man, for a second there, I thought we had hit video game perfection. This guy must me a prophet.
Chris @ Jul 21st 2007 5:04PM
Or rather, BE a prophet. I'm not a prophet.
kimoy @ Jul 21st 2007 5:04PM
@ eric there will be hardcore games being released on the little system just give it a chance.. i dont blame 3rd parties for not jumping aboard yet becuase nintendo has been a let down for a while.. but they are ready to give the system a chance and they are games in the making... plus i totally disagree with you on the controlls part..
motorer @ Jul 21st 2007 5:04PM
I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who doesn't want to have to wave my arms around to play a video game. Nintendo's E3 conference didn't impress me at all. Their biggest announcement was a pad you stand on to do exercises? No thanks.
A friend of mine has a Wii, and I've played Zelda, Super Paper Mario, the sports games, Tiger Woods, and the Wii Edition of RE4 - I'm not just talkin' out my ass. They're fun games, but I just got really tired of the controls.
Give me a standard controller any day.
kimoy @ Jul 21st 2007 5:07PM
@ curmeo.. just face it you hate the wii cause a less graphical system is outselling the so called juggernauts.. how do you think i felt bout the ps1 and nintenod0 64 era..
Curmeo @ Jul 21st 2007 5:20PM
N64 was a damn fine system, as was PSX. i actually respected Nintendo back then.
Stephen @ Jul 21st 2007 5:12PM
The Wii will die as soon as someone important mentions that jumping round like an @$$hole, by yourself, in your living room is not in the least bit cool.