In an editorial published last weekend, film critic Roger Ebert seems to renege somewhat on his previous insistence that video games, a medium he finds to be "inherently inferior to film and literature," cannot be considered a form of art. "Anything can be art," admits Ebert. "Even a can of Campbell's soup. What I should have said is that games could not be high art, as I understand it."
The "high art" label is almost as old and heavy as most of the works one would apply it to, and expecting a medium as young as video games (never mind the superior class of film) to hold it up would surely be met with crushing disappointment. While it's not impossible for video games to eventually reach such a lofty status in our culture, Ebert's clarification is far more agreeable than his previous statements. Of course, since we can beat down the status of art with a can of soup before allowing video games (and seemingly any old thing) entry, it's not much of a change. The same problems Ebert has always had with the medium are reflected in the rest of his response to Clive Barker's recent comments on the subject.
Ebert offers up this woefully simplistic definition of video games to support his argument: "They tend to involve (1) point and shoot in many variations and plotlines, (2) treasure or scavenger hunts, as in 'Myst,' and (3) player control of the outcome. I don't think these attributes have much to do with art; they have more in common with sports." While said summary is generally applicable to the "vast majority" of games today, it fails to rule out the medium's artistic possibilities. Ebert's idea of "player control" appears to be far more extensive than that currently found in games -- perhaps this unfamiliarity has its roots in the fact that one of only two examples mentioned in the entire article is a fourteen-year-old adventure game.
The central problem Ebert encounters is that of control being wrestled away from the artist, akin to a reader rewriting Shakespeare as he flips the pages. "If next time, I have Romeo and Juliet go through the story naked and standing on their hands, would that be way cool, or what?" While we'll reserve judgment on whether or not said interpretation is "way cool," the comparison gives game design far too much credit. Much as publishers and marketing drones would like to have you believe, you can't do whatever the hell you want in a game. Every one of your actions is determined by a complex set of unseen rules, technical boundaries and art assets that entwine to form a game. You're just plucking options from a pre-determined list; seeing, hearing and playing what a developer wants you to. The trick to good game design is making you feel otherwise -- a form of artistry in itself.
You may have a sprawling world to explore in Shadow of the Colossus, but the game is inescapably concerned with the murder of those majestic monsters that roam the landscape. You cannot go through the story naked and standing on your hands, as the limited abilities granted to you inevitably push you down the designer's path and towards the game's bittersweet climax. Even sandbox titles such as Grand Theft Auto provide limited interaction -- you're not going to become an omnipotent superhero and irrevocably ruin the creator's vision. It's still his sandbox. If Ebert means to say that playing however you want and running into a wall for three hours takes away from a game's artistic aspirations, then perhaps a painting is similarly devalued when you stare at it with only one eye open. For Shakespeare's sake, read past the first page of Romeo & Juliet!
"That said, let me confess I enjoy entertainments, but I think it important to know what they are," concludes Ebert. Perhaps the biggest contention to be had in this piece and the one prior is that the film critic has not yet demonstrated enough knowledge of what games are. The opinions still seem to spring from someone aloofly judging a strange new medium and utterly precluding the possibilities offered based on the poorest of examples. The staunch adherence to art being a static, one-way experience from "creator" to "consumer" feels positively outdated.













(Page 1) Reader Comments
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Then you start with weed before working your way up to cocaine and heroine. Eventually you'll cut off your ear and commit suicide at which point some guy will come along and start talking about how deep and meaningful your pieces are because he knows that when they sell you won't be around for him to have to split the profits with.
That's what high art is all about. At least from what this guy says. After all, high art can't possibly be the in depth, professional study and use of color, light, and form as a method of telling a story and evoking emotion from the viewer.
I mean, hell, that's what some of the best games are all about now.
Maybe it's like how the 360 and PS3 fans say that the Wii isn't really a competitor, cause the Wii has such a huge advantage for when it comes to making games that are fun and easy.
It's the same way with high art; games can't possibly be a competitors with sigh art, cause games have all the advantages of having the viewer personally involved in the story the art is telling, as well as being able to incorporate pretty much any 2d or 3d art medium the piece as a whole. So high art just "isn't the same thing"
So there you go. You now know what High Art is: Complete and Total BULLSHIT.
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Anyway, I dunno I've appreciated the art in Gears of War far mor than I have of any movie, book or painting. Anything you can come back to again and again with the same appreciation is truely what they speak of as "high art."
Ebert is an idiot.
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Let's see Ebert play something like Grim Fandango or Planetfall and not be moved.
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Of course if we do need to prove our industry is an art (rather than what I imagine to be an eventual evolution of the contemporary definition of the word that will ultimately include games) why not compare it to an improvised. Could games be the audience participated improvised version of movies? A scary thought for people on both sides of the debate I imagine. After all, we already have similar music and theatre improv, and that still counts as art. Right?
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http://play.tm/wire/click/1131998
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http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=10561
has this man never considered these? All would qualify as "High Art" in my book
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is he gonna make another lame fucking category?super high art?fuck ebert.
games can and are art!people call that new aged crap sculptures with a tv inside of a dog fucking art,even though its just a pile of garbage thrown together.
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all art takes is time for the medium to sink in and a majority of a dedicated audience to appreciate it.
i mean, when film came out, i dont think anyone was happy about it. all the old farts were complaining it was taking away from live theatre.
its take about 100 years for a song to become a classic piece, as then it becomes a classical work of art.
games are nothing but art; a time consuming, laborious, masterpiece that would be looked upon by millions of people that would love their effort put into creating a digital world.
Ebert is just old. hes how we are gonna be when they start calling rap art. (lol
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanitarium_%28videogame%29
1 - the products of human creativity; works of art collectively
2- the creation of beautiful or significant things;
3 - a superior skill that you can learn by study and practice and observation
By definition, games are art. They are products of human creativity, they are significant to gamers and cherished just as paintings are to those that enjoy them and require superior skill to create (and even to play well). Not every painting is a mona lisa and not every game is a Zelda, Ico, etc. But games are art.
/discussion
http://www.folonline.net
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why should our comparisons be directly related to vincent van gogh masterpieces?
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I, and most gamers I imagine, have found many games to be far more immersive, beautiful and thought provoking than some of his favorite movies I am sure. Just because they are interactive doesn't negate their artistic merit.
There are far more "midnight releases" generating far more buzz than the likes of narratives such as Harry Potter to validate the artistic value of video games.
In the end, it comes down to why do we as gamers care what the hell Roger fucking Ebert thinks anyways. I'd be all too happy to argue the artistic value in my favorite video game versus the latest piece of cinema he couldn't wait to bash in his weekly review any day.
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Take a given painting or style/genre, abstract for example. What makes it art? Is it the producer's intent/status/label? Or is the consumer's response and interaction, the validation, that gives it credence?
Another example, writing - specifically symbolism. Does a writer always, positively every time, put in a given symbol with intention of meaning for the assumed reader? No. That's impossible. With any given person's individual life experiences, an "unimportant" object in a story could mean something vast. Again, (re/inter)action is critical to a value of a work.
Ebert's level is low in this regard. Whether that is because he doesn't find (or rather isn't looking for) value in given themes, memes, objects, "simulated" experiences, or he simply doesn't even care to play for them, I don't know.
For those of us who are open to the medium, the experience itself can create intrinsic value. Human empathy is vast, relating the smallest of moments into life-long values. By playing Super Mario World with my brother, a screenshot or jingle can bring fond memories to my mind. There is an investment on the part of the game's producers and myself.
Video games, like books, demand more from their audience than movies. I'm willing to invest, I find the returns worthy. Does Ebert? I guess not.
Do I care?
Only so far as I want to see the medium receiving the credit it deserves.
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Many people consider Theatre a "high art," much more than one would consider a movie. Theatre very much relies on the interpretation of an outside agent, or many outside agents, to be presented. The main framework stays the same, while liberty is taken in details in the presentation. This is much like the role of the gamer in a game, although not exactly the same, of course. The player makes decisions within the frameworks and limitations of the game-space. I would venture to say that a video game programmer has much more control over how their work is interpreted and presented than a playwright.
Just my thoughts.
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It's not a small feat, but if a developer manages to make a game that is truly "art" (and I'm sure most of you would agree that such games have already been made), I believe it could surpass traditional "art" as it involves the player in personally determining its outcome.
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as for theatre, it can be modified, the jokes can be said in different ways or contexts. in a wierd way theatre is more interactive and different. they will have different endings depending on the region they are playing in, things like that. well in the same respect games are the same way. it most likely has the same ending but you can change.
so not in a gaming stance, but all forms of art is just for entertainment for making money. thats all it is and all it will ever be. a service.
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He's just bitter, and old.
He -knows- his argument is merely based on a vague, arbitrary definition that holds no water (multiple endings or story branches automatically dequalify games from being art? Give me a break).
He just irrationally hates videogames somehow, even though he's never played any (if you read his film reviews, he often uses the videogame comparison as an insult to a movie he doesn't like). Seems he has some kind of image of them stuck in his head and refuses to challenge his own prejudice.
But he doesn't want to come across as some immature troll who just bashes on something for the sake of it. So he invents some kind of odd reason, a completely random definition of what "art" is, merely to belittle videogames and everyone who creates and plays them.
He knows he's wrong, he's not dumb. He's just an asshole.
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An argument can be made that no game has yet achieved that level, depending on your definition of high art (which is problematic itself, since it can be pretty much whatever you want it to be). But his reasoning for why it can -never- happen makes absolutely no sense. Saying games can't be art because they're interactive is like saying movies can't be art because they use moving imagery -- there's just no connection between the premise and the conclusion. As a professional critic, Ebert should be the first one to realize there's a level of influence from the "reader" on every single medium. A piece of art is meaningless without an observer -- it only comes to life in the space between the artist's vision and the viewer's mind, where it's colored with the viewer's own experiences and interpretation. Everyone sees a single work slightly differently, yet no one doubts that the objective work is still art. Is that really so different from interactive games?
I can also argue that the interactive nature of games -adds- to their artistic value rather than detracts from it. Art is about instilling emotion, and games have a broader emotional palette to work from than any other medium. Games are the -only- art form that can evoke pride in a person, for instance, or guilt. The blend of these is part of what makes something like Shadow of the Colossus so compelling, I think.
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I've made this argument before: if Ebert doesn't think games can be art because the experience is too heavily subject to change... then what about books?
One of the -very reasons- the written medium is often preferred by its proponents, is the fact that what a person or a place may look, sound or feel like, is so up to the reader's interpretation.
I'd go so far as saying videogame developers have -more- control over the player's experience than book authors do over their readers'.
Your No True Scotsman comparison is right on the money. :)
Vidjo games have their place as art. Ico was so beautiful that lots of times I'd forget it was a game and I would go, "Wow look at that" and try to toggle to see another beautiful part of the castle. Same with Shadow of the Colossus.
Just like all art, what someone deems trash another deems it as art. It's been the case for centuries, why would it stop now. Ebert is way out of his field of study when he chatters about video games.
It seems though that having an opinion about them is a popular thing lately, riding on the coat-tails of more opinionated douchewads like Jack Thompson.
Just think of it like this:
High Art = Van Gough
Medium Art = Van Gough in a video game
Low Art = Van Gough tattooed on your ass
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Second-If it's not art why do so many artists work on video games to make them?
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And your contribution to society is...what?
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Ebert is mad because he is going senile, his genre is changing, nobody listens to him anymore, his partner croaked and they put him with this new idiot.
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