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Reader Comments (126)

Posted: Jul 23rd 2007 11:08AM samfish said

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"What new non-casual games did Nintendo announce? Keep in mind, I said new. We should be looking beyond this holiday season. Mario Kart Wii? Well, normally I'd agree with you but Nintendo announced their own steering wheel attachment to help people come to grips with the act of holding a controller like a steering wheel and they are talking about "leveling the playing field" online. So you even have Mario Kart in danger of the ever looming shadow of casual conspiracies."

Nintendo announced TWO new games at E3: Wii Fit and Mario Kart. It was pretty lite all around.
As far as the Mario Kart steering wheel goes...I wouldn't read too much into that. Nintendo is pretty much at the head of this "casual" games movement. THAT is their gimmick. It's just marketing...EVERYTHING they do now has to reaffirm their commitment to this now.
...even if it's just throwing in some joke of a plastic steering wheel and saying it'll make it easier for New Gamers. The MK wheel is akin to a plastic sword attachment for Zelda.

If we hardcore types are getting shafted, the casuals are actually getting shafted harder, I'd argue.
I KNOW what I'm going to be buying/getting for Christmas. Mario Galaxy, SSBB and if it was to my tastes, Metroid Prime.
But what am I going to get my mom or my aunt or my friend this Christmas, who also went and got a Wii? Nothing is coming out for them! Wii Music was confirmed for 2008, Wii Fit is 2008.

Miyamoto recently said that Animal Crossing is in the works and even hinted at a new Kid Icarus (yay!), recently.

When you really look at the situation, Nintendo might be talking about casual gamers, but they're treating their hardcore fans as good as they ever have.

Posted: Jul 23rd 2007 11:19AM (Unverified) said

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The only problem with making games for the casual player is that I am going have to share. I can't wait for the day when someone makes the comment "I am bored, my mom/grandma/girlfriend just kicked me off the wii so she could play WiiFit/BigBrain; She is always hogging the Wii."

Posted: Jul 23rd 2007 11:23AM ShinAntonio said

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I don't know if anyone else has pointed this out (ctrl+f turned up nothing), but the word is "precedence". In other words, "WiiFit held personal precedence", not "presidence".

Posted: Jul 23rd 2007 11:55AM (Unverified) said

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How "hardcore" are most games anyway?

I never played a Zelda game before Twilight Princess, and let me say it is well designed but is a joke in terms of dificulty. It is nigh impossible to run out of life or money, except in the boss fights. If you get slightly lost, there is a fortune teller and Midna to tell you exactly what to do. I went back and played the original LoZ for NES, and it is friggin impossible by comparison!

One game I played recently (er, own) that is "hardcore" is Tomb Raider Anniversary. The game is a real adventure/platformer, and it's one of those games where you miss a ledge by one inch and you fall to your death, period. There are no hints for the puzzles (although they aren't THAT hard), and there is fairly limited supplies of health (though not as bad as the old Resident Evil games). TRA is a real HC games. LoW:TP is not, imo.

All that said, casual games are fun, and I don't always feel like playing games so hard that you can't beat them without memorizing every part, or using a guide or setting the difficulty to easiest.

Posted: Jul 23rd 2007 12:07PM (Unverified) said

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This is ridiculous! Find a spot in the closet along with all the other stupid fads and tummy trimmers that might appeal to the typical couch potato. This isn't your regular under a $100 QVC shopping channel merchandise when you add the Wii system to it. Maybe they should do a half hour late night paid advertisement spot.

Posted: Jul 23rd 2007 12:20PM (Unverified) said

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Seems some people took my comment out of content, I did not mean Nintendo as a company with "15 mins of fame" I ment items such as WiiFit etc.. that people on CNN, Fox News and Good Morning America eats up and loves to show off.

Posted: Jul 23rd 2007 12:32PM (Unverified) said

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At the very least you should be grateful to Nintendo, since it's proving regular people that games aren't just for children and don't make you a killing machine. Also, so you guys sound like idiots saying: "but the hardcore created this industry.." dude, I don't know who branded the nerdy programers with "hardcore", this is an industry for nerds made by nerds, not "hardcore mo'fukas".

Nintendo is taking the business somewhere else and saying "who's going with me?" And many companies are leaving, why? because you guys decided they were done for, along time ago. For me it really clicked when "Prince of Persia remake" was praised by everyone as a original title, but sold like shit, until the sequel when they replace the arabian prince with Trent Reznor, everyone hated Nintendo for their use of basic colors and cartoony models, and praised games like Dead By Rights, a shitty game that happens to have a bunch of strippers. You didn't care that Nintendo was changing it's ways, but they day they announced "everyone wants to be like Nintendo" holy shit, let's CRUCIFY NINTENDO FOR BRING THIS EVIL TO THE LAND! If you wanna show how annoyed you are by Nintendo, don't buy the games, just let them do their business with the people they are offering these games not, of course "not you" but you should get rid of those ass pimples anyways, women don't like grabbing hardcore asses, no matter how many madeals you have in your xbox tag, hahahaha....

Posted: Jul 23rd 2007 12:53PM (Unverified) said

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Personally I think Wiifit will end up a wiiflop...

Posted: Jul 23rd 2007 1:16PM aristokrat said

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I wonder to what extent the huge mod chip community around the Wii has forced Nintendo to try finding new hardware to sell. I haven't bought a game for my Wii since I got it, yet I've been able to easily play them all. With the arrival of mandatory new controllers, etc., Nintendo may be trying to combat piracy through what are effectively becoming validation dongles. Maybe soon all their games will ship with some goofy attachment or board or camera or buttpad (you have to be sitting down to fully enjoy this experience!) to cut down on piracy. That has been their major failing point resulting from the use of old technology, and they have been somewhat bitten in the ass by it (as evidenced by the constant revisions to the DVD drive, etc.).

This could be a large shift in gaming economics if profits are derived from hardware sales primarily. This is how Apple works, practically allowing people to pirate their OS because it means you've already bought their hardware. It would be interesting to see how many more peripherals Nintendo comes out with. A samus vision scope? Mario plumber coveralls? Maybe people will need to add a Wii room to their house to corral all this stuff.

Not necessarily a guaranteed outcome, but it would be interesting if this is somewhat true.

Posted: Jul 23rd 2007 1:45PM Professional Amature said

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To all the "hardcore gamers" and their complaints about the Wii and it's move towards "casual games." WTF do you think video games were originally if not catered towards the casual games crowd? Games like Pong, Pac Man, and Asteroids that helped get the industry to where it is today. For you so called "hardcore gamers" to complain about and deride casual games is ridiculous. I call it going back to the roots of gaming. You may call it whatever you wish.

As far as the simplicity of Nintendo games, try to actually complete some of their games. Super Mario Sunshine is probably one of the hardest games to fully complete. Try completing some of the later objectives to collect all the golden stars. I can tell you from firsthand experience that they were pretty darned difficult.

And let's not forget the last big Nintendo fad. The venerable Nintendo Entertainment System (NES). As I recall it was universally panned as an addition to the dying video games fad which was killed by Extra Terrestrials. We all know how utterly Nintendo failed with that fad.

As for an increase in casual gaming at Nintendo, Nintendo can't do it all. That's why there are other publishers and developers. It needs to be a concerted effort by all to bring different types of gaming to a platform regardless of whether it's the Xbox 360, PS3 or Wii. Nintendo is great at making certain types of games. Other companies like Capcom or Square Enix are great at making other types of games. Everyone should stick to their core competencies and together bring a good variety of gaming to all. Nintendo's great at making casual and family oriented gaming. This has not changed in two decades of being in the games console market. Why would it change now?

Some of you "hardcore gamers" weren't even around back in the days when arcades were the place to go for good gaming and the Atari 2600 was the pinnacle of gaming. At the risk of sounding like an ancient, you kids need to shut up, sit back and look into the history of gaming before shouting about how Nintendo is killing gaming.

It is up to other developers to leverage the install base of the Wii and make different types of games because I find it hard to believe that casual, and only casual, gamers are the only ones buying the Wii.

Posted: Jul 23rd 2007 2:05PM (Unverified) said

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so if i post something positive like:

"Nintendo is the greatest in the world and can do no wrong."

Then My post will not be buried. However, if I am honest that Nintendo could care less what "hardcore" gamers think, and that 3 games a year for Nintendo fans just isn't enough, then my message is sure to turn a nice shade of light gray.

Classic Fanboyism!

Posted: Jul 23rd 2007 2:45PM Swifty said

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Casual games tend to require less demanding development requirements and thus less development costs. This is the opposite from the Hollywood Summer blockbuster movie model where broadly appealing movies tend to require exorbitant production costs in order to gain greater profit margins.

Casual games won't kill games targeted towards enthusiasts. Hardcore games still make profit margins, but it happens to be that casual games make even greater profit margins. Companies are better off making both types of games rather than making one or the other exclusively.

Perhaps the advent of casual games will allow developers access to the cash flow allowing them to engender even more ambitious projects that could not have been done before.

Posted: Jul 23rd 2007 3:03PM BananaBoat said

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You know what annoys Hardcore Gamers? Nintendo realized that our moms and grandparents were a more lucrative sector to target than us. Do you think we were happy with a sub-N64 (making ports hard) DS? Do you think we were happy with a non Hi-Def, Sub regular Xbox power Wii? Absolutely not. Anyone that can seriously say he is satisfied with the Wii at this point, can officially pronounce himself a casual gamer.

And I'm sick of Miyamoto. He didn't even help make Twilight Princess (which was so poor graphically that I cried) and now he's wasting his time with wii fit. As a Hardcore Gamer, I am very very aggrivated at Nintendo right now (not that I wasn't aggrivated in the Gamecube generation too. Nintendo has made it worse)

Posted: Jul 23rd 2007 3:17PM NintendoFanbot said

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BANANABOAT

Wow, excellent job for being an ass.

Miyamoto did help with Twilight Princess (thus the PRODUCER crediting), and he's also focusing on Mario Galaxy. The man is capable of more than one project at a time. He also supervises the development of games like Metroid Prime 3 and Smash Bros and nearly everygame that comes out of Nintendo.

"Do you think we were happy with a non Hi-Def, Sub regular Xbox power Wii? Absolutely not."

That's why you have the choice of getting an Xbox360 or a PS3? Wouldn't you rather enjoy them rather than complain about something you won't buy anyways? Or are you going to claim that after you bought a Wii that Nintendo simply sprung their plans on you and missed what they were talking about ever since the DS was announced?

"I'm a hardcore gamer WHAAAAAAAMBULANCE"
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Posted: Jul 23rd 2007 3:44PM (Unverified) said

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whelp here's to 15+ years of gaming

If being being a "hardcore" gamer means I need to be dellusional to what's fun and say crap like yourself.
"I Almack hereby pronounce myself a casual gamer"

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Posted: Jul 23rd 2007 4:50PM Hydralisk456 said

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I hydralisk, also declare myself a casual gamer (in the vein of Almack)
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Posted: Jul 23rd 2007 4:53PM (Unverified) said

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Welcome, Brother Almack.
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Posted: Jul 23rd 2007 5:23PM vidguy said

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I play 10-15 hours a week and enjoy Guitar Hero, any Mario, Wii Sports, and Madden... I must too be a casual gamer.

(I also enjoy Final Fantasy and Halo, et al, but those may be to hardcore for me to list on my casual gaming resume)
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Posted: Jul 23rd 2007 3:07PM (Unverified) said

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"Hardcore gamers should welcome with open arms the expansion of the audience, as it just means more success overall. A rising tide lifts all boats."

no, it means developers/publishers focusing their time and money on casual games which means fewer and fewer games for us hardcore gamers.

Sony's tech demo for PS3 is MotorStorm. Nintendo's tech demo for Wii is Wii Sports. i think that sums up where each company's commitment is with.

Posted: Jul 23rd 2007 7:33PM sqlrob said

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I'll play Wii sports. I couldn't give a flying flip about Motorstorm (Lair and White Knight on the other hand...)

When gaming for 28 years, you learn that fun is the important bit.
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Posted: Jul 23rd 2007 3:52PM Paviel said

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"I never played a Zelda game before Twilight Princess, and let me say it is well designed but is a joke in terms of dificulty. It is nigh impossible to run out of life or money, except in the boss fights. If you get slightly lost, there is a fortune teller and Midna to tell you exactly what to do. I went back and played the original LoZ for NES, and it is friggin impossible by comparison!"

The difference is that in the original Zelda, there is nothing except a few cryptic hints from the old man telling you where to go and what to do next. So you're right; it could not possibly be harder than that. (Except maybe in Adventure of Link, where you generally know where to go and what to do, but have to put up one hell of a fight to get there and do that.)

The "dumbing down" of the Zelda series really started in a Link to the Past, where you almost always knew where to go and what to do next. I think that this is also when they started to use the "get item, use it against the boss" idea. Granted, it wasn't like this for every boss in a Link to the Past, but it was for enough of them.

Posted: Jul 24th 2007 12:19AM (Unverified) said

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What I find ridiculous is this whole idea of casual vs hardcore gamers and the idea that casual gaming is some sort of new phenomenon. How many times have I heard the phrase "Playstation made gaming mainstream." The same has been said about a few consoles and I'm sure many "hardcore" PC gamers will tell you that consoles are inherently for casual gaming. I don't really agree with that but the PS2 didn't get to 120 million units sold because of hardcore gamers.

A successful console is made, in fact, by the casual gamers. I guess people fail to see that casual gamers made up most of the market because they usually often play some of the same games as the rest of us such as Halo, Gran Turismo or Madden. "Hardcore," refers to how seriously a person takes their hobby. The irony here is that there is so much elitism surrounding this subject and those elitists don't realize that being "elite" implies that their group is very much the minority.

Saying that gaming is in two segments is one thing but it's silly to assume that there is no crossover between them and that only one segment can survive.

Of course, we'll always have this "hardcore vs casual" debate but I hope that people will at least stop saying "hardcore games." I don't want to be considered a hardcore gamer if it means spending a lot of money to play the same basic game over and over. Now I'm a fan of first-person shooters but did anyone else notice the focus on and high volume of shooters at E3?

Nintendo isn't exactly leaving its hardcore fans behind, if you look at their upcoming lineup. The real problem, in my opinion, is those third parties who want to make a quick buck by selling low-budget titles to people who don't know any better. It's not that they're casual gamers as much that they are *new* gamers.

Posted: Jul 24th 2007 2:09AM (Unverified) said

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I read half the comments, and i'm sick and tired hearing about supposed "hardcore" and "casual" gamers. "casual" gamers will play games like WiiFit, brain age, etc. "Hardcore" gamers would play Wiifit, brain age, crackdown or whatever other damned game comes out. If you complain about or avoid an entire genre of games, you aren't all that hardcore in my opinion.
Hardcore is playing barbie fashion designer for 4 hours because you had nothing else to play.

Posted: Jul 24th 2007 8:46AM Hanover said

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Just the fact there is this much positive and negative buzz about the Wii Fit means that Nintendo is getting what they want. People are TALKING about their products.

This happened with the Wii. Everyone scoffed at the name and how low powered it was compared to the other two consoles. Yet, when people learned that it was FUN...the public made it the #1 selling console.

You, my friends, are part of Nindendo's marketing campaign.

Personally, I've already preordered my Wii Fit. :)

Posted: Jul 24th 2007 8:24PM (Unverified) said

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@Dan

"Just the fact there is this much positive and negative buzz about the Wii Fit means that Nintendo is getting what they want. People are TALKING about their products."

In that sense, Sony must be pleased that everyone is talking about their products whether it be in a positive or negative light - people are talking about their products. Microsoft must be pleased with their $1.9b bill for faulty Xbox 360 consoles that has hit news stands the world over - people are talking about their product.

"This happened with the Wii. Everyone scoffed at the name and how low powered it was compared to the other two consoles. Yet, when people learned that it was FUN...the public made it the #1 selling console."

This happened with PlayStation 3. What seems like everyone but appeared to be a small minority, scoffed at PlayStation 3's price-tag and at how it wouldn't beat the Xbox 360 in terms of performance and overall power. Yet, when people learned that it was nothing like they had played before, putting the already year-old Xbox 360 to shame... the public is lapping up the console and its user growth is at a steady pace.

"You, my friends, are part of Nindendo's marketing campaign."

You, my friends, are part of Microsoft's, Nintendo's and Sony's marketing campaign.

"Personally, I've already preordered my Wii Fit. :)"

Personally, the money you will spend on your Wii Fit will be better spent on a Gym subscription.

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 10:32AM (Unverified) said

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What I don't understand is how everyone gets upset about Wiifit. Yes, I'm going to get it, and I'm a 'hardcore gamer'. No, I probably won't play the game very much, I'll play it as much as I play Wii Sports, which is barely at all.

But, I'm getting it for the balance board, because if anybody took the time to think about what your actually buying (The Balance Board), it has a bunch of possibilities. How about a new Call of Duty or Medal of Honor? Where you get to use your Wii Zapper to aim and turn with your gun, while you stand on your balance board, and take a step forward or backward to move, or you duck to...duck. Sitting or literly laying to prone. Jumping to jump. What if they include Balance Board funcinality into Metroid Prime?

Don't get me wrong, I've never read any of these kind of uses anywhere, and they are coming straight from my own imagination, and I seriously hope that Nintendo, and any 3rd party developers have thought about it. Though, they have mentioned using the balance board for things like Skiing and Skateboarding.

'Casual games' are just a new genre of games that most casual gamers would be most intrested in. It won't take away from the 'hardcore gamers' playing every other genre that exists.

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