Epic's Mark Rein: Consoles will define look of PC games

by Ludwig Kietzmann on Jul 30th 2007 4:25PM

Speaking to CVG, Epic Games vice president Mark Rein has expressed his belief that graphical advancement in PC games will be partially reined in (OOF!) due to the limitations and financial viability of consoles. "Publishers are generally putting their money where the highest return is, and in the past that's been on consoles and I think that's still the case," said Rein. "So if you build the game that's a really super amazing high-end game, how do you make all the money you could make from that game, because it'll be too high end eventually to be on PS3 or Xbox 360."

As a result, Rein expects consoles to "pretty much define what the next five years of games look like on the PC" and titles pushing the DirectX 10 envelope to be in the minority. PC versions should, however, benefit from several enhancements a la Gears of War. "That's the value to me of the PC, that the source content we have is still really high resolution, much higher than we can show on a 512MB machine. You can use that content on the PC, you can express it in higher resolutions and higher frame rates and turn on more effects. I think that's what you'll see, PC games where we turn it up higher."

Though it sounds like console technology is cramping the PC's style, the Xbox 360 and PS3 (and those who develop for them) are still immersed in the design transition from single processors to parallel architectures. There's a lot more wind to be coaxed from those sails yet.

Source

Tags: Crysis, DirectX10, Epic, Gears of War, GearsOfWar, PC, PS3, Unreal, Xbox-360

Reader Comments (47)

Thats bullshit I don't think Crysis can run in all its glory like it does on the PC on the consoles. First Person shooters on PC will show how FPS's look like on consoles and thats a fact people. Other games like Gears are probably gonna show how games will look on PC but with FPS's that will never happen.

What makes FPS special?

I'm sure plenty of other genres can produce games that are beyond consoles. Even a puzzle game if it wanted to.

Thats not the point he was making. Rein was saying that because the consoles make the most money on average in this industry, the money spent on high-end games is mostly going to go towards console games.

I would have to agree with him. This has really always been the case, but dont take it as an argument for which platform is superior... Technologically, PCs have always had an edge, but its the consoles that force developers to find ways to get pretty games to run on the consoles; aka, they usually work harder to make good looking games on consoles, rather than relying on the latest graphics hardware to do the work for them.

That's not what he said.

The quote was: "Rein expects consoles to "pretty much define what the next five years of games look like on the PC" and titles pushing the DirectX 10 envelope to be in the minority."

There will always be a few 'Crysis' games that pushes modern technology to it's limits.

Rein is probably right about DX10 games being in the minority for the foreseeable future, but not because of consoles. Most PC gamers have not made and don't want to make the jump to Vista, which is where you currently have to go for DX10.

Unless Crysis converts the masses to Vista, either DX10 will come to XP or we won't be seeing many more DX10 games.

Amen.

In some time, Vista will be commonplace and DirectX10 will be in most gamers' possession. That time is not now and it ain't come for awhile and DirectX10 will not be important until the means of its execution are commonplace.

I think older PC limit the capabilities of PC games far more then consoles ever will. There's no point making games only a handful of hardcore hardware nuts can play. Anyway, PCs get games that won't work or just won't sell on consoles (and if they are they are so dumbed down a chimp could play them). There is no reason why they should be tied to consoles performance.

Yeah, the ecclectic range of PC capabilities, while being the PC's sole edge over Mac (customization is good), it prevents PC developers from building a game that is truly accessible, unless it winds up having the technical demands of a low-end Dreamcast (like WoW, which isn't a diss on the game, just saying), mass appeal is difficult

To get an epic, relatively high-end game with mass appeal and really grand sales, you have to sacrifice the ability to go out to the bleeding edge to deal with the (relatively insignificant) limitations of the PS360

"What makes FPS special?"

Break out of the mentality that all First-Person games are simply blasting some doodz, an FPS can be an adventure game, a platformer, a puzzler, an RPG.

It's not because it's FPS, it's because of the graphics and physics which are (tried to) normally pushed to its limits by developers that make FPS.

Uh, what ever happen to "scalability"?

Is Valve somehow odd because they have the common sense to make Source scale from Direct X6 to DirectXFuture#?

I don't know if DX10 allows for that kinds of scalability. It lacks backwards compatibility, so getting a game to run on both DX9 and 10, for example, would probably require two separate builds of the game. That could mean as much as twice the time and money devoted to development.

Looks like the PC next-gen starts when the xbox360 and Ps3 say it does.

HA

I think the Wii will define the future of game graphics.

Sadly, I think you're right. Only idiots would turn down more money for doing a lot less.

Zertoss, I think you underestimate the adoption rate of a new Windows OS. I blinked and XP was everywhere, I don't doubt anything less will occur from Vista, it's quickly becoming a chore to buy a new PC without it.

N-Zero entirely missed the point with his barely intelligible post, but Colin aptly corrected him.

It's quite a moot point really, games that push the upper echelon of what PCs can do have always existed, and always been fairly niche at first until the "average" gaming rig catches up a couple of years later.

Rein is simply stating that with the narrowing gap between consoles and PCs, this period is going to be longer. 5 years instead of 2 or 3.

Actually, I've been following Vista's adoption rate. It's really slow compared to XP. It's comparable to Windows ME. A lot of people who buy machines with it, buy a copy of XP, format and replace. Copies of XP are still plentiful and easy to find.

It's the gamers that will drive the PC gaming industry. Most gamers build their own rigs, so preinstalled OSes aren't an issue. And if they continue to choose XP over Vista the way they are now, like I said before, either DX10 will make its way to XP or we won't be seeing hardly any more DX10 games.

The majority of the top selling PC don't push the graphics envelope:
- The Sims
- World of Warcraft
- * Tycoon series

The games people rave most about their graphics barely register in the sales charts, yet those are the most expensive games to develop!

Which means that we PC gamers have more taste, preferring a good game over a flashy game.

Yeah, and Doom, Wing Commander 3 and MechWarrior 2 never were made because everybody had a Genesis or Super Nintendo so developers didn't see the point of spending more development money for a limited return on the PC.

Fuck Epic and fuck Rein.

Screwing over 360 owners with this completed Gears of War shit for the PC is beyond despicable.

And b4 PC owners start bitching, "well they screwed us over by putting it on the 360 first!" let me remind you that it was a NEW game at the time. Regardless of what you think a company has a right to put a game on whatever system it wants to at the start of the production. They chose the 360. In my opinion they should have stuck with the 360 instead of becoming traitors and all of sudden putting it on PC.

I can't take anything this guy or his company says seriously as a result.

Unfortunately I'm probably still going to get Gears 2...that is if it happens.

Whoa dude, watch yourself. Traitors? Because Epic has always be exclusively Xbox, right? You need to get over yourself. One game gets ported to PC with extra content, boo hoo. Maybe you can get microtransactioned later on top of the extra $10 you already pay. Deal with it. Console gamers are all suckers. PC lost Halo years ago. We didn't even get it until two-three years later with crap for extra content. And H2..damned if I don't love the MP but we didn't get shit. Now 1 game on the PC gets extra content OH NOES.

I wouldn't say that we "lost" Halo, in the sense that we were missing out on anything. Personally, I didn't find Halo all that fun, but then I'm not one for multiplayer, at least not on a console (split-screen FTL). And by the time Halo came out for PC it was old news, so I wasn't interested anymore anyway. Halo 2 made me yawn even louder.

"Fuck Epic and fuck Rein.

Screwing over 360 owners with this completed Gears of War shit for the PC is beyond despicable."

A bit too harsh, but I agree that they should release the extras as downloadable content for 360 at some point.

It may be harsh but I think a lot of 360 owners feel that way.

W/e...I enjoyed Gears as it was on the 360 but it was too short. Would have loved another Act or 2....

And when I heard about Gears on PC I was like okay thats cool...

But then I hear its going to have even more content. And not just a little. A LOT. So it pissed me off.

So PC gaming machines will be cheaper?

Gearmaster

are u serious?

do u realize this game came out almost a year ago on the 360?

of COURSE its gonna have more content..they've had plenty of time to add stuff.

so the gears on the 360 was "complete", regardless of wat u may think.

how can u blame this on epic?

wud u have preferred they WAIT and release the PC and 360 versions simultaneously?

thats totally stupid.

now as for releasing the new content to 360 gamers, demand will decide if they do that. Epic has been pretty generous with DLC so im sure that is definitely a strong possibility.

but that fact still doesnt mean 360 owners got a gimped version of the game.

yay for console gamers getting screwed over once again!

Bahahahahahahahaa! Console gamers? Screwed "again?" Oh, you should do stand-up.

This guy obviously knows nothing about the gaming industry.

There are still countless developers who make games exclusively for the PC.

Just because he's too concerned with turning a profit, he thinks everyone else is out to scrounge every last penny like he is.

Us console gamers are a spoiled bunch. Consoles still dominate the news when it comes to gaming, most game publishers know that console gaming is where its at to make a buck, yet whenever there is any news in favor of PC gaming every gets thrown into a tizzy. Grow up guys, there will never be huge lines of gamers ready to slap down $1200+for a new gaming rig. Relax...seriously.

Actually, it's worse than even Rein is quoting. One of the games we're working on is only being done as good as the Playstation 2 will allow. This is due to the publisher, and time constraints, and it sucks, but it's the truth.

The PC version will look no better than the PS2 version :X.

Yeah, but it's only being ported to the PC because its easy to do so and it's make a little bit more cash. There are some PC games out there with ports so lazy that the PC owner is told not to remove the memory cards or turn off their console. PC gamers will take one look at it, smell the rotten stench of it's console origins and back away.

I'm confused. He's saying develop games on consoles because they have the highest returns relative to costs to both developers and consumers; but then use that as investment to create super-tech on PC that has higher costs to both and still expect to profit. If it costs so much on PC, then consoles are the way to go especially if PC costs keep escalating too fast; but then later shovel them to PC with all the bells and whistles after the console version has run its course. So the bottom line is the dollar. What's he saying?

He's saying that because the console market is larger. More developers are going to centre their games around running on the PS3/360, and that the "bells and whistles" PC owners are going to receive are going to stem more from turning up effects that aren't built into the core code of the game.

Zertoss, unlike ME, Vista IS the next Windows. A year or two down the line DX10 cards are going to be shipped with Vista PCs, slower than XP won't be an issue in a couple of years. I was talking less about the hardcore gamers and more about the average one that plays last years games on built to order machines. That's what's going to boost Vista adoption, not the relatively small home built machines.

Though even as you say, the only reason that hardcore gamers are building their own rigs and whacking XP on them is because the graphics drivers are currently fairly lame across the board. Vista has been built to be very dualboot friendly to give them time to tweak. These same hardcore gamers are going to be the ones seeking the DX10 experience, and if they manage to keep DX10 Vista only, or even if they don't, once they improve current drivers these people will adopt soon.

"A lot of people who buy machines with it, buy a copy of XP, format and replace." I'm not doubting that, but I've not heard of anyone I know doing that, they at least dualboot, and just wondered where your basis for that comment came from.

The real reason that complex (ie not eGames $10 puzzle stuff) PC games are expensive to develop and sell is the variation. With a console every box is the same, you don't have to worry about some dummy trying to run Crysis on an eMachines with Intel on-board graphics, you put the game in and it goes without having to know anything. Once you've tweaked your game for one 360 it should run just as well on every 360 (or PS3 or whatever), with PCs you have to deal with all that parts make and speed variation. You wouldn't believe the number of people I know who think that the power of their computer is determined by the version of windows they have, it's gotten better over the years but one of the major issues you have to deal with on the PC gaming front is shit clueless users. The average six-pack drinking white-trash fool on the street doesn't want to have to read or understand PC specs, he wants his Madden and his alien shootin' now dammit.

I agree, let's blame the consumer and not the people who get paid to sell their products to them.

I disagree.

I think if you're a developer working on both PC and consoles, you're like to push yourself to the limit of the lowest common demonminator. Same is true for cross platform console titles.

But if you're a PC developer, I think you're going to push yourself beyond what consoles are capable of doing. Crysis is just but one example. Historically, there have always been cutting edge games that appeared on PC first, and were later ported to consoles, that didn't fully exploit all the same features or capabilities of the PC version.

Because the PC development community couldn't agree on a PC tech standard to protect users from couping with poorly optimized, bug riddle over ambitious products. In other words, most PC games were/are designed to run on the bleeding edge or are so poorly optimized (Rainbow Six Vegas/STALKER) they require juice monkey rigs to operate as intended. It's probably a good philosophy to adopt, using the console market as a standard for PC games.

Now if only companies could put more care into making a decent PC version we'd be set. At least we know Epic is capable of doing both, but Ubisoft and Sega give the PC market a fucking black eye. Treat the PC as viable platform (and it is) and people will buy your product. Keep delivering shitty ports/versions and people won't buy. You reap what you sew.

And I don't think Blizzard would agree.

After all that crap about Epic and it's Unreal engine, it's easy to see why they're doing this. They're completely giving up on their PC base now.

The user base that made Epic who they are today no less :P

"In my opinion they should have stuck with the 360 instead of becoming traitors and all of sudden putting it on PC."

Um. Ever heard of Unreal Tournament ? Yah ...

Oh OK. That's why PC gamers get Gears of War with additional content right? Because Epic's given up on them. That's probably also why UT 2004 is still getting support while Gears doesn't. Makes sense.

This is the point I was making at the PGR4 post. There will always be something holding developers back. RAM, money, Disc capacity, time, etc. PC gamers will whine about console gamers. PS3 gamers will whine about Blu-ray. Xbox 360 players will enjoy the most since the 360 has the largest install base as far as consoles go - but they'll whine about the failure rate. Nothing is perfect.

well, i have a lot of respect for epic games and i love their engine, but what he is saying basically isnt true. pc games always looked way better than console games, at least a few years into each cycle.
it was like that in the last generation, the one before that, and the one before, where games like quake were coming out for pc, and consoles were 16-bit like genesis or snes... would anyone honestly compare the graphics quality in say, sonic the hedgehog (and that was one of the better looking games) to the graphics in quake, descent, or even doom? no, of course not.
anyway, i think its natural for developers to put these kinds of fright scenarios out there, so pc gamers will rush off to buy more games, to "prove the viability of the platform..." just another way to push profits, i guess. :)

Keep rubbish third person wannabe FPS off our PCs.

"pc games always looked way better than console games"

A PC isn't a pre-built system so it varies depending on the user, they have the potential to look better, but how many are bothering to unlock that potential? And how many care about the added detail to textures?

What makes PC gaming special?

Democracy, thanks to the mod community support. Where you can create anything out of any games' SDK, from new weapons to a whole new game. The developers for PC games really encourage their players to do more than just playing.

And also, nude patches. Remember Tecmo's Dead Or Alive nude patch debacle? Further proof that consoles are less democratic than the PC. It gets worse with GTA's hot coffee.

Hell, there's no real democracy in console gaming these days, and having to hump your kill isn't one of them.

Real future of consoles? Open-source consoles. Surely you know what that means.

Epic's Mark Rein: Consoles will define look of PC games

Reader Comments (47)

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 4:39PM nzero said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 4:49PM ChefBorjan said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 4:50PM Maxsunset said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 5:09PM (Unverified) said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 4:50PM (Unverified) said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 4:50PM Zertoss said

Posted: Jul 31st 2007 4:31PM Megaqwerty said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 4:55PM PoisonedAl said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 6:18PM Mr Khan said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 4:56PM (Unverified) said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 5:03PM (Unverified) said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 5:08PM Zertoss said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 4:58PM bearattack said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 5:03PM (Unverified) said

Posted: Jul 31st 2007 4:14AM PoisonedAl said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 5:06PM (Unverified) said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 5:14PM Zertoss said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 5:06PM (Unverified) said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 6:49PM (Unverified) said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 5:07PM AirIntake said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 5:17PM (Unverified) said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 5:47PM Neebs said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 6:55PM (Unverified) said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 5:20PM (Unverified) said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 5:27PM (Unverified) said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 5:31PM Spiza said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 5:49PM embassy said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 6:04PM SaNcTuS said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 8:01PM Neebs said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 6:09PM (Unverified) said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 6:17PM leobebes said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 7:02PM (Unverified) said

Posted: Jul 31st 2007 4:23AM PoisonedAl said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 7:11PM hvnlysoldr said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 7:35PM (Unverified) said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 8:01PM (Unverified) said

Posted: Jul 31st 2007 3:02AM (Unverified) said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 7:52PM (Unverified) said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 7:53PM (Unverified) said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 8:47PM (Unverified) said

Posted: Jul 30th 2007 11:11PM jynxycat said

Posted: Jul 31st 2007 4:40AM Serious Kriss said

Posted: Jul 31st 2007 1:13AM (Unverified) said

Posted: Jul 31st 2007 3:40AM (Unverified) said

Posted: Jul 31st 2007 6:07AM (Unverified) said

Posted: Jul 31st 2007 11:31AM (Unverified) said

Posted: Aug 1st 2007 12:04PM (Unverified) said

Info

Description

MSRP

Release Date

Genre

Developer

Publisher

Rating

Breaking News

WB conjures up Harry Potter for Kinect this fall

Featured Stories

Silver Lining: I Am Alive's unfeeling world

Game Of Thrones and the paradoxes of adaptation

Super Joystiq Podcast 004: 38 Studios meltdown, Gravity Rush, Civilization 5: Gods & Kings, Dragon's Dogma

Engadget

TUAW

Massively

WoW