Heavenly Sword producer defends against Itagaki's jabs

Have you played the demo? If you have access to it, bring up the combos lists and then come back and tell me it's nothing but a "basic fighting mechanic".

Jake possesses an UNCANNY ability to rub Vidikron and me the wrong way.

;)

"I really don't see Heavenly as that massive of a game."

This is a little known fact but Heavenly Sword is actually 2.735 times as big as Mass Effect.

Okay, I haven't played the demo, but can someone enlighten me as to what the difference is between this game's combos and the few hundred other games that also use combos?

Maybe the demo just makes everything click or something, but having not played the game, I'm with Jake in that it sounds like a standard fighting/adventure game.

@Anam

Look at this logically though. Can't any game be boiled down the way Jake presents it? Can't I pretty much say that Halo is just some "basic shooting mechanic with some cut scenes in between"? Yet, to him, Heavenly Sword is just an adventure game with a basic fighting mechanic and Halo 3 is one of his highly anticipated games.

I don't care if he is anticipating Halo 3 more (I might be too), but it's unfair to try and boil down a game like that and act like other games can't be boiled down the same way. Like any game of that type, it makes use of combos and such, but the mechanics aren't "basic". You have a normal stance, ranged stance, and power stance... you can throw objects, have dodge manuevers, counter attacks, and power moves. Then some of the combos actually require to switch stances in the middle of the combo and use motion controls. That's why I told him to look up the combo lists... some of them look very difficult to pull off.

Vid,

Here we go again.

I have played the demo once and watched it being played by three people, one of which had played the demo multiple times and seemed pretty good at it.

I'll tell you what. I'll summarize the game to my basic knowledge from playing buzzed and you tell me how terribly wrong I am, since you know more about the game than me.

Enemies can charge attacks with three different colors, each requiring a different single button to initiate a counter.

You have three stances, each having an advantage for different ranges. It isn't as rigid as the counter attack system. For example, a long range attack against a close enemy can still possibly work. Countering a red attack with the "blue" button or whatever other color there was will not work at all.

You have plenty of combos to choose from, but they each result in your main baddy getting a serious ass kicking and nearby baddy's possibly getting slight ass kickage, kinda like every hacker or basher with combos ever made.

That is, different combos don't seem, to me, to yield significant differences in gameplay the way the three counters and three stances have preferred situations to use them in. The combos add breadth, but little or no depth, to the gameplay. Using a small handful of combos won't put you at a disadvantage compared to memorizing all of them or pausing to get new ones all the time. Attacking into an aerial combo every single time you power attack is just as effective as "mixing it up" when it comes down to it. My buddy seemed to do this because he thought the aerials were the sweetest. I am not sure on this since I didn't get to experiment much but I didn't see a big strategic difference with the combos I saw.

There are timed button press and story segments connecting the different "boards" of bad guys.

There are bosses, and I assume each requires a unique strategy, like a minigame in itself, like in most games with bosses.

That is all I can think of. Based on my knowledge and unbiased opinion, I see Heavenly as a AA title. The only sure AAA titles this fall, as I see it, are Bioshock, Metroid, Galaxy, Mass Effect, Crysis, Halo3, and most likely UT3. I believe Odyssey, Drake's, Sonata, and probably a few I am missing have a good shot.

You can call me a fanboy all you want. I'll admit I am currently heavily favoring the 360 (and PC I guess). But the Heavenly is in no way on my top fifteen most anticipated games this Fall. UT3(timed exclusive) and Drake's are. So it isn't pure 100% fanboy bias.

You make it sound like a dial a combo system. I'm starving for an age when these type of combo systems cease to exist.

why because you and vidikron are both happy rubbing each other??

@Jake

Well, you seem to have a pretty good grasp of how it works, though I think you are judging the game too much on the demo. From what I've read, you can get away with button mashing early in the game, but a better grasp of the combat system will be required in later portions of the game. That might be were you see the combos differentiate themselves.

But that really wasn't my point anyway. I really don't care if you like Halo 3 or Bioshock more than Heavenly Sword. I just thought it was rather stupid to claim HS has a "basic fighting mechanic" and then list a game like Halo 3 which has a "basic FPS mechanic". Seriously, how long does it take to break down the Halo 3 combat system? It's as basic as it gets... perhaps the only important thing to remember is that energy weapons are better for removing energy shields. That's it. No real combos, no stances, no counter attacks... just a handful of different guns. But the game's great, right? It just sounds more to me like you really don't care for the genre that HS is in more than you really don't care for HS as a game itself.

Anyway, to sum it up, I thought your complaint against HS was weak. From what I can tell the combat system is fairly deep for the genre. You just sound more like you don't care for the genre in general. Which also seems to be the basis for your gripe against the PS3 holiday line-up in general. You keep calling it weak, yet I think it's quite strong. You just happen to prefer FPS and RPGs over action/adventure and platformers.

I agree with you that games have gotten easier (or have we old-timers gotten better?), and that's frustrating. But I found both God of War games challenging, as was RE4. I don't think that the minigames made them any more or less difficult.

I have played the demo, and I dunno about everyone else, but to me, the game pretty much played out like GoW. Sure, the button timing wasn't during a boss fight, but GoW had button timing during non-boss fights...from what I remember at least

I admit that I haven't played the demo of Heavenly Sword, but the reason I complain about button pressing is because Shadow of the Colossus created scenes that were 10x cooler than any cutscene and didn't involve arbitrary button presses.

Yes, cutscenes with button presses are better than cutscenes without, but games that look cool without needing cutscenes are better still.

The vast majority of the combat is "free action" as you call it. You have a couple of different fighting stances, dozens of combos, you can pick up and throw object (including bodies), dodge maneuvers, and counter attacks. The choreographed sequences are just a small part of the game.

You just ruined pizza for me for at least a month. Thanks a-hole. ;)

Given a choice between a half-assed game and a rehash game, *I* would...go do something else.

We have to keep RE5 out of this conversation because maybe that was a good fit for that game. But I still think in action games they are unecessary.

His comments are crazy though. Plus lets be serious NG is top 3 best action platformers ever