Mark Rein speaks on Silicon Knights v. Epic suit

That game will never see the light of day. I am tired of holding my breath.

Sadly, I was actually looking forward to this.

Damn.

It's a shame that they've got to go through this. The video released on XBL looked amazing. As a software developer I can understand how they feel. It's annoying when the tools you rely on just won't do what they're supposed to do.

Yep. Too Human's dead as a new Duke Nukem.

This Sucks. I was really looking forward to Too Human. Oh well...

Personally, I've always felt Mr. Rein is a tad on the shady side. I wouldn't be surprised if Epic gets spanked when the dust settles. There's simply been too many devs, off the record usually, that have implied similar problems.

Maybe this will teach game makers to create their own engine instead of rehashing this one into multiple generic FPSs (yes yes, I have heard of too human, be quiet). But probably not.

Everytime I read a post about this situation it makes me recall a video with Bill Gates asking CliffyB directly (I think it was some sort of MTV feature on Gears of War) about having GeOW ready in time for its release date and the amount of pressure that must have been on Epic to get the game done.

It wouldn't surprise me if Epic really did slack/lapse in their contractual agreements with other companies around supporting/updating the Unreal engine because they were slammed with building Gears.

This drama will definitely be worth the popcorn.

If Epic fights, then will lose, because Bleck says such, blehahahaha! Bleck!

Destruction of infringing goods?



Yikes. To hell with Epic. SK's lawsuit isn't attempting to permanently put them out of business. The destruction of Too Human would bring down SK for good. They can't afford to not put that game out.

Basically, Epic made promises to Silicon Knights about delivery and did not meet those deadlines, and Silicon Knights is basing a bunch of products on the technology, but can't release their products because of certain features they planned to use are not ready.

Some other developers have mentioned missing portions of the engine, and cited that they had to write their own pieces, which seems to lead credence to the issue that SK is raising. Most major UE3 games have been delayed. Also is seems even Sony is lending a hand to Epic to work on the engine.

Even though Epic is counter suing, I think SK certainly has a case or a least a legitimate beef with Epic.

I for one hope Silicon Knights loses and their game has to get scrapped. Is anyone actually looking forward to playing too human? If anyone is, it's nowhere near the amount of people looking to play Unreal Tournament 2007 (Or UT3, whatever they are calling it these days). It seems to me that the U3 Engine is fully out and ready (Gears of War, and other games give credence to this) but that Epic's ever changing of the source code has lead to problems. Then again, I have no idea, so nevermind what I just said. Epic for the winnnnn. WE LOVE YOU CLIFFFFYYYYYYYY!

FFS...

I never said half-life was on UE3. It was on a modified Quake 2 engine - just like a bunch of other games were.

My point is that UE3 is not responsible for creating stereotypical shooters - developers are.

Seriously i really hope Epic wins this lawsuit. Silicon Knights are a bunch of idiots that cannot code and thus need to complain about how incapables they are making games.

honestly, who can be surprised that developers are having problems programming for new multicore platforms using a brand new engine? ...but any good artist should know that blaming the tools for his own shortcomings isnt exactly fair...

Both sides probably have some valid points. I mean, SK must have felt like complete crap when they received weak sauce UE3 updates leading up to E3, with playable code only two weeks before the show, while watching Gears run flawlessly and take best in show. Epic allegedly failed to give them the full UE3 code as they were contractually obligated to, despite their clear ability to do so.

At the same time, SK has essentially taken Epic's code, learned from it, and created their own engine by changing lines here and there. Kinda like plaegerizing an article where you change all the words in the sentences, but follow the same logic path beginning to end. Sure, SK has likely added to it and surely improved it from where it started.

This might end as a "tie". SK may receive damages for Epic's failure to fulfil the contract despite its obvious capability to do so. At the same time, I highly doubt SK will get the legal right to do whatever they want with the "Silicon Knights Engine".

One fact that I want is whether or not SK continued to accept Epic's updates well after they allegedly started "building their own engine". If they were still accepting tips, then I can't see them winning this thing. If they contacted Epic early on and said they were going to make their own engine, then Epic would stop giving updates and maybe SK has some pretty complete ownership over the engine.

Regardless, this thing is going to get really nasty and SK might end up in the gutters. I really hope that Too Human is still released, though.

Heres the thing. Too Human was supposed to come out on PS1 in 99, then on GameCube in 02 and now in 07 they decided to switch again and they can't get it to run right, yet its Epic's fault? I'm feeling like they got in WAY over their heads and can't bail themselves out now. Ubi got R6:Vegas done on the UE3 engine... Turok has been demoed and looks good. BioShock is on UE3, thats coming out very shortly. The problem is, 99% of licensed engines require coding on the developers part. Usually you are buying a head start in engine development, not a complete polished project, especially one you KNOW isn't finished yet.

Silicon Knights of ALL companies should know that when it comes to programming, NOTHING is finite when it comes to dates. Otherwise their game would have been out 8 years ago on PS1.

If you read the complaint... it sounds like it will be interesting...

That Epic promised certain things at certain times... and haven't delivered. This forces SK to take things into their own hands.

Counter-suing isn't the best idea in my mind for Epic... Some companies will just not want to deal with the head aches if they think that they could be sued if things go wrongly.

I think SK has a real case here, since Epic and others have acknoledged that it hasn't gone as smoothy as they had hoped.

But the courts will decide that...

I'm getting tired of both Mark Rein and Dennis Dyack

just put 'em on the list to be sent to the deserted "Island of the Idiots of Gaming" with Jack Tretton, Perrin Kaplin, J Allard, and Uwe Boll

If Silicon Knights says there's something wrong with the U3 engine, then there probably is, and I imagine the last thing in the world Epic wants to do is admit to that, because they'd have to work out a deal to make it right, not just with SK, but with every developer that has liscenced their engine. That would be very expensive and time consuming. They probably think it would be cheaper just to out-lawyer SK. Which of course is complete BS, but there isn't much SK can do about it.

The only decent thing Silicon Knights ever created is Legacy of Kain, and then they managed to stomp that franchise into the ground with horrible sequels. The game they made for the Gamecube was alright, but it was no masterpiece. They can't come anywhere near the uber skills of Cliffy. Oh and Mark Rein really does need to STFU and GTFO (He's up there with the creator of God of War, as one of the most obnoxious people in the industry)