Today's nerd-check video: D&D 4th Edition
Gen Con Indianapolis is building to its peak, and the gaming convention hosts news about Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition. YouTube user, GamerZer0, is on location for the announcement, shooting the initial presentation and overview of the new rules.Due out in the middle of 2008, the rule update to the tabletop game includes (optional) computers more than ever. Dungeon Masters can wield simple web tools to outline levels, traps, and other parts of the game. Individual players can use the web interface to create a character's stats and appearance. And players will be able to meet online in addition to their parents' basement, avoiding all of the interpersonal game-behind-the-game.
Watch four long videos after the break, and visit GamerZer0's page for more Gen Con geekery.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
kchenisp @ Aug 18th 2007 12:37AM
Um, referring to GamerZero as a "youtube user" is slightly ignorant (willfully or not) of the fact that he is a WotC shill. That is, "GamerZero" is a WotC corporate persona, like Major Nelson. Don't believe me, go to the WotC forums or the Gleemax site.
cornbeefy @ Aug 18th 2007 12:44AM
I thought that WoTC said that 3rd was to be the end all be all of D&D, and that after 3rd their would be no need for another rule base? I don't know something just tells me that it's coming close to the end of an erra and that the MMO has WoTC scared. Some of the things he mentiioned in the keynote was ("Easing the DMs job, Easing players jobs and making it easier for old players to get into D&D again or new players to get started in D&D for the first time") that got me. Or maybe Uperdeck and Blizzard both is making the fool out of money with the World of Warcraft MMO & TCG, and neither D&D nor Magic the gathering isn't getting any younger.
Matt B @ Aug 18th 2007 12:46AM
If you have a good DM, D&D was amazing. Too bad nobody wanted to DM back in the day.
Nick @ Aug 18th 2007 1:46AM
Since Wizards of the Coast bought TSR, they have been trying to turn Pen & Paper D&D into a cash-cow. New rules and new books every fews years is bullshit.
2nd Edition forever!
MasterInsan0 @ Aug 18th 2007 1:56AM
Wow...so we get a new edition every 8 years now? I mean, 3rd edition came out in 2000, 3.5 came out in 2003, and this is coming out in 2008. I figure, then, that we'll have D&D 4.5 in 2011 and then D&D 5 in 2016.
This wouldn't be too terrible except that of course, none of the books from 3/3.5 will be compatible with 4th edition.
You know what this reminds me of? Magic. We had the core set of cards, and we thought that would be all we ever needed. Except then the core set gets revised, and revised, and then there's 4th edition, then 5th edition, all the way up to 10th edition now. You know what's different about the original Magic versus Magic 10th edition? Jack squat. You still have cards, you still attack and block and cast instants and enchantments and play artifacts.
D&D is the same thing: you still have characters, you fight monsters and NPCs, you level up, you roll for attack and damage, and you dive into dungeons. You might even fight a dragon or two.
At first, in Magic, the core set was revised for balance and tournament play. Then, it just got excessive. They were exploiting the tournament scene (which they control) to push new editions every few years, along with making all your old cards useless after they cycled out. At least you didn't have to play in tournaments.
The same goes for D&D. At first, new editions came out to help fix rules, balance things out, and add content. I personally believe that D&D 3rd edition was the best version of Dungeons and Dragons ever printed. It finally made everything follow a coherent sense of logic (for the most part), it greatly expanded character customization options, and really refined the system to a point. Then 3.5 came out and changed almost nothing...but the books still cost $30 each.
Now 4th edition is going to come out and change almost nothing. Probably just enough to make it incompatible with the d20 system so that Wizards can have a monopoly on D&D accessories (like TSR did before them) and try to suck MORE money out of their players--the same ones that just bought Monster Manual FIVE.
WOTC: "Yeah, that's right, buy the fifth monster manual so you can use it for a years and then have it be made utterly useless when we unleash a new steaming pile of 4th edition on you."
Consumer: "Why would you do that to me, Wizards?"
WOTC: *can't talk because they're too busy rolling in cash*
Thankfully, though, just like with Magic, you don't have to play the new edition. The only people they're screwing here are new players (who get screwed more by ridiculously expensive books than anything else) and the poor fools that buy every single book--a.k.a. their hardcore fans. But still, that bites my ass...they're going to screw over their hardcore fans by putting out revision after revision, doing little more than toying around with the rules each time. Reminds of the BS with college textbooks, where the companies rearrange the chapters every year and put out a new edition that the professors automatically use, and therefore make the students buy.
Oh yeah, and just to end my comment here with a little more bitterness, the online stuff for 4th edition looks like it was ripped directly from popular PC games like Neverwinter Nights. That, AND it's most likely going to cost MORE money. That's right, in addition to the $100 you just spend on the three core rulebooks, you get to shell out more cash for their online component. Which will, of course, be heavily referenced in the rules themselves, with sentences like "For an explanation on area-of-effect spells, go to the D&D Insider at www.wizards.com/moneygrab. Be sure you have your credit card ready."
I don't usually write long comments...but this just brings my piss to a boil. What's wrong with D&D 3.5? Or 3rd edition? Or hell, what about AD&D 2nd edition? Nothing. People still play AD&D, and although some say it's because they prefer the rules, I think it's because they don't much like the idea of shelling out for MORE rulebooks when the ones they have work just fine for their weekly/monthly/whatever role-playing session.
So...uh...the whole point of this? Don't buy 4th edition, and if you do, make damn sure you love it, because WOTC is sure as hell loving your money.
kyle @ Aug 18th 2007 2:22AM
of course online will cost extra.
i smell subscription fee
kbunch @ Aug 19th 2007 11:10PM
The great thing about consumerism, you can buy what you want! If you find value in something then you can buy it. Where do you get off telling others not to buy it. I am looking forward to 4th edition because of the online part. My gaming group has become geographicly disperse.
MasterInsan0 @ Aug 20th 2007 2:31AM
kbunch, I'm not saying to not buy it, I'm saying that if you do, you'd better enjoy it as much as WOTC is enjoying your money.
And they're enjoying it quite a bit.
Word of the street. @ Aug 18th 2007 2:46AM
This game was released a few years ago,I Believe it was called Neverwinter nights.
blooh @ Aug 18th 2007 2:47AM
why not just make a simplistic D&D interface online? make it a mix of an instant messenger (in a group chat) with some visual elements
SeriousKriss @ Aug 18th 2007 3:45AM
The core 3rd edition is a very solid ruleset (much better mechanics than 2nd edition), although it lacks the flavor of its predecessor. I thought 3.5 was useless, so unless they make the 4th edition even more intuitive and smooth than 3rd I don't see the point.
Kazi @ Aug 18th 2007 8:18AM
While some of the D&D buffs will complain about this, I personally welcome it. With a numerous amount of friends who love D&D I stick out like a sore thumb as I just don't care for it. I prefer my competitive games than sitting around talking about some group of Knolls stealing from some hamlet no one really cares about.
I'd rather be sitting there bullshitting than taking turns taking swinging at these silly Knolls. I constantly ask for the battle board to give some kind of feel of strategy, but it's always just too much of a hassle for the whole group. With this finally I won't have to be behind in knowing the rules (wut the rulez fer trippin wit a tiger seerd yo?) and get to actually play with the battle board.
This will be nice, but I'm no where near as anxious for it than I am for the World of Darkness MMO. Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines was an amazing game on the PC.
Tonbo @ Aug 18th 2007 9:20AM
"Swinging at these silly knolls"?? Is this Dungeons and Landscaping?
That reminds me of a Knights of the Roundtable classic:
"In the distance you see a pagoda."
"I shoot it with my +5 arrow"
"Nothing happens."
"I shoot it again."
"Nothing happens."
"But that was a +5 arrow!"
"It's a freaking pagoda!"
Jonah Falcon @ Aug 18th 2007 10:18AM
I still love the 2nd Edition -- and have the Core Rules CDs. (2.0 and Expanded.) The Handbooks are a pleasure to read.
Kazi @ Aug 18th 2007 1:19PM
Haha, sorry, meant Gnoll.
Jonah Falcon @ Aug 18th 2007 10:19AM
The 3rd and 3.5 editions of the rules are very solid - if you like halfling mage/paladin/fighter/clerics. (rolling eyes)
Kibbles @ Aug 18th 2007 12:38PM
I'll be buying it most likely as I didn't get in to D&D untill this year and most of the older systems look just like big math test fests to me. The bonus of having the option to play a streamlined version online that isn't AIM/Open RPG/etc is exciting to me and i'm looking forward to that.
Plus, this looks like the first incarnation (for better/worse) that will allow people who absolutley hate fantasy stuff to get onboard with D&D finally. As I have more than a few friends in this catagory, i'm hoping this will pull them in for once.
And hey at the end of the day, if you don't want to play newer stuff? You don't have to.
Christopher7xii @ Aug 18th 2007 1:21PM
No, you DON'T have to pick up 4th edition... But when they're still building the Eberron Campaign, if they start releasing the books in 4th edition instead of 3.5, I'll be mighty pissed.
LaughingTarget @ Aug 18th 2007 2:39PM
Hell, why not? 3.5 is public domain and additional source books only go so far. They've got to move on to make money. There just isn't any reason for the creative types to do anything other than jump in and grab the legally free 3.5 core rules.
There isn't anything wrong with 3.5. If you don't want it, don't buy 4. Seriously, they aren't any better at building worlds than many of us are.
RobertHMayfire @ Aug 18th 2007 10:57PM
But they were all of them deceived, for another D&D was made.
In the land of Washington, in the Printers of Mount Gygax, the Dark Wizard of the Coast printed in secret a master edition, to control all others. And into this Edition, he poured his greed, his lust for money and his will to dominate you to pay for it all over again.
"One Edition to rule them all."
D&D 4.5. :P You know its coming.
blooh @ Aug 19th 2007 2:05AM
lol, then 5, then 5.5, etc
hdtvdinner @ Aug 19th 2007 8:58AM
While part of me welcomes the ability to easily get together and have fun with my other pressed for time friends, who now are slowly spreading across the country, I cant help but think of subscription fees being the downfall of this once great hobby. Before, If they came out with 4 revisions of the same crap I didn't care about every month, I could just not buy it. Now they want to get my money regardless.
Xeno Mezphy @ Aug 20th 2007 1:43AM
But... but I love my 3.5 rules... When will the killing end!?!?!!!?
drun @ Aug 20th 2007 7:20AM
when i saw this news i thought it'll be great to play dnd online but when i saw the vid, what the..., i'm moving that stupid avatar during the whole game?!if i'm the DM, how many monsters i'm going to control...i rather play it with my mouth.
Matthew Williams @ Oct 17th 2007 12:49PM
What's wrong with the idea of a new version every eight years? What better a way to keep the game new and exciting than by keeping it new? How many of you MMO nerds creamed your pants at the thought of a WOW update? Each version slowly becomes outedated and people fuind themselves changintg and altering the rules to keep themselves entertained with it. Wizards is just doing on a massive scale what we've all be doing on a small scale.
And what's with the bitching about a subscription fee? So what!?! Most of you WOW freaks are already shelling out tons of money every year for some PoS MMO. I'd gladly pay for D&D what you pay for WoW. I would assume that those of you who are pissed about 4th edition are only pissed because you don't know if mommy will give you the money for the new books, so god forbide you should have too get offn your dead buts and get a job.
Finaly stop compainling about Wizards trying to make a buck off of D&D. They are a capitalist industry, of course they're trying to make a buck. Just be gald they're not the smae jerks at TSR. There was a time when saying "D&D" online would have gotten you sued. TSR even tried to copyright the work Dragon. Look it up on gametap. When Wizards took it over the made the open gaming licince so that anyone of you nerds could write and publish a d20 book. Now your going to tell them that they can't. Wizards has to make money and survive, because you don't know who will take the rights and rape them later.