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Reader Comments (243)

Posted: Aug 27th 2007 6:04PM SpartacusMagnus said

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Nintendo to Gamers-
"We don't need you anymore!"

Gamers to Nintendo-
"Ditto!"
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 6:09PM (Unverified) said

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Nice to see ya' again. Where ya' been?
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 6:21PM Neebs said

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I am Spartacus.

Er, I am WITH Spartacus.
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 6:57PM SpartacusMagnus said

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Johnny Bloom,

I've been out of town for two weeks. I got married, went on my honeymoon for a week, then had a week long conference up in Montana I had to attend. So after a hiatus of hiking, swimming and spa'ing in Pagosa Springs, CO and Glacier National Park, MT, I'm back at my PC and office. Nice to see someone noticed ;-)
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 7:04PM (Unverified) said

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Glad to have ya' back. May your marriage be blessed with love and longevity.
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 7:14PM (Unverified) said

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Surely, Mr. Spartacus, you did more than "hiking, swimming, spa-ing" while on your honeymoon...

As for the topic, considering Nintendo has games coming out for just about everyone, and for the most part, always has, I don't think there is much to worry about.
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 10:18PM soul4sale said

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I think you got the timeline backwards. Gamers did the abandoning first.
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 11:02PM (Unverified) said

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Why is it that when it was a few months ago, people would go on about how those "non-gamers" who bought the Wii bought it only for Wii Sports and that they won't buy anything beyond that, but when Nintendo shows that they will maintain support for these "non-gamers," the same people now equate it to complete abandonment of the core gamer? Isn't it more reasonable that for one to EXPAND, it has to fill in that expansion? Otherwise it would be like third-party developers saying they'll support Nintendo fans but utlimately throwing a few bones their way while everything else, and the best, is for the Sony fans. So for me, it's not a question if Nintendo has anything for the core userbase (because obviously they do and only those who keep worrying they won't are the same ones continually questioning "and then what" or "what else" and then "what else now" until years later they look back and see there were actually a lot of Nintendo efforts catered to them), it's what's for dinner from third-parties (and it better be "steak," not microwaved leftovers).
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 11:50PM SpartacusMagnus said

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soul4sale-
True, that's definitely the case with me. I left Ninty after the N64, but that was still only because the GCN offered me very little as a gamer.

Grindstone and Questworld-
I was simply having a bit of fun and am aware that the Wii has a few "real" games in the pipeline. However the total number of these games is a bit underwhelming. In the next 3 months, the 360 has more "real" or "hardcore" triple A games coming out than the Wii will have in it's entire 13 month lifespan. That is not fanboyism, that's simply statistics. Though I am not a Sony fan, by this Christmas, there will be more solid (metacritic rating of at least 7.5) "real" or "hardcore" games out for the PS3 than the Wii despite the fact the Wii has been outselling the big black beast roughly 2.5 to 1 worldwide. This should raise a few red flags in your mind regardless of your personal allegiances and preferences. Just something to ponder...
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Posted: Aug 28th 2007 1:18AM (Unverified) said

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You're a fool if you think the PS3 has anymore 'hardcore' games coming out. They're equally in drought right now because they're just a measly year into their release. They'll be caught up to the 360 by the end of 2008. Wether it be because every game on the 360 gets ported to the PS3 or people start realizing their high production games don't cost as much on the Wii.
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Posted: Aug 28th 2007 3:27AM (Unverified) said

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But that's just it isn't it. How many games are specifically coming from Microsoft alone? The fact is that most anticipated games for the 360 come from all over the map, from multiple third-party developers. People put this weight on Nintendo's shoulders for everything and every genre as if these actually are running on the notion that only Nintendo games matter on Nintendo systems. Even MS or Sony fanboys can rarely even pick out third-party games on the Wii they could be interested even in the midst of mouthing hatred of Nintendo games (and if they do they'll be complaining about how it should be on their systems, rare as it may be).

And on the developer side of things it's almost like they operate on what rings true in their minds (much like fanboys actually). Call the system "kiddie" and it's like you can see them nodding their head in agreement. Call it "casual" fit solely for mini-games, and you get the same. Say that it's great for shooters, RPGs, and epic and deep stories and gameplay, and it's like "hey, hold on there, we need to be cautious, wait and see." But for the 360 and PS3? They've started games like Bioshock and Metal Gear Solid 4 years ago. No baby steps there but for the Wii, baby steps (with its feet dragging). Seriously, MGS4 on the PS3, but Elebits for the Wii? And then what, Silent Hill 5 for the PS3, but Dewy for the Wii? I mean they've put more effort trying to push AI, physics, graphics, animation, etc. for "next gen" systems yet they can't even get a highly capable middleware engine that would push the Wii systems at an optimum pace. Heck, they haven't even made even the same progress on just merely trying to get FPS games to work well for Pete's sake.

These are the same groups who came up with quality PS2/Xbox efforts like MGS3, FFX, Burnout 3, RE4, Splinter Cell, etc. They dug in deep to try to max the systems out, got creative in their efforts (i.e. like squeezing RE4 to fit on the PS2 and then some), and we're to believe this is the best they can offer the Wii? I doubt they're just following Nintendo's own efforts, they never believed in it, they've just going to jump in the bandwagon while it suits them, but they're not going to help pull it (with perhaps the exception of a few).

"What's the matter, you bums forgotten how to kill people? Have you no sense of pride in what you do? No sense of duty, no sense of destiny? I'm looking for GENERALS; what have I got? Foot soldiers!" - Dick Tracy movie quote.
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Posted: Aug 28th 2007 4:24AM SSUK said

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However, while Microsoft is securing AAA titles to be exclusive to their platforms (Games for Windows, Xbox 360) with some $$$, Sony doesn't want to dish out for it. This in turn drives developers away because the install base of the PS3 is still fairly low and big titles with big budgets may not see returns on those games for a long while. Konami is STILL trying to coax Sony into giving them money to keep MGS4 exclusive by dangling the prospect of porting it to the 360 over their head. In a way, Konami could have Sony around it's little finger... 'cause MGS4 is seen to be one of 'the' titles the PS3 has going for it at the moment.
But anyway, the Wii's lack-luster title-base is a result of disbelief by developers that the Wii would be anything more than a Gamecube 2. The Gamecube failed miserably, it's 3rd party support was terrible because Nintendo set such tough restrictions on loading times and other misc. annoying things. Developers also were driven away when they realised that Nintendo had not amended the errors of their ways for the Wii, leaving the console with developers brave enough to take the leap-of-fate with the Wii... But, amazingly the console pulled through the doubt and became another amazing smash-hit console for Nintendo. I put this down to them expanding thier demographic... Where as MS and Sony aim to one type of gamer, hardcore gamers and SAY they're aiming for other demographics (I'm sorry MS, but saying "Disney on the marketplace!" isn't enough...).
Why is this important? Well, because hardcore gamers are nothing compared to the vast ammount of people outside the 'hardcore gamer' circle. So, offer up a console with simple controls, offers something fun and innovative and most of all; cheap. And then put a load of non-games like Brain Academy for Wii, games for everyone; Wii-Sports, Wii Play and soon, Wii Fit.
Suddenly, developers realise that "uh oh, this console's steaming ahead and we're being left out". Developers now flock to the Wii because it's a cheap platform to develop for... Development tools from yesteryear are now cheaper because they've been replaced by next-gen development tools and Nintendo itself isn't pushing for 'best of the best' visuals themselves (other than maybe Zelda). Overall, they see a significant chance of getting their game getting returns much faster than other platforms.

So in reality, it's stupid for them to drop hardcore gamers, but makes a lot of sense to diversify the gaming industry to accomodate a much larger audiance in which for the Wii to print money like it's cousin, the DS.
Why you even thought Nintendo was dropping us... I mean, they shown you all the 'normal games' before they shown you the 'non-game' stuff... And most of that 'non-game' stuff is out now or coming out fairly soon, much like the 'normal games' you had seen before it. 2+2 does not make 5.
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Posted: Aug 28th 2007 11:19AM (Unverified) said

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Sure the PS3 is having a drought...

A drought for the hardcore full of Heavenly Swords, Lairs, Warhawks, Eye of Judgements, Uncharted: Drake Fortunes, Killzone 2s, Resistances, Everyday Shooters, and more...

Drought my ass, you insepid fanboy!
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Posted: Aug 28th 2007 12:10PM SpartacusMagnus said

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Yeah, I didn't blame the lack of hardcore games for the Wii on any entity in particular, be it Nintendo or 3rd party devs. I just said it was a bit alarming. I agree with you guys, but the result is the same no matter who you point the finger at- the Wii has few traditional games in its library and doesn't seem to have many in the pipeline either.

And I agree with the last poster, while the PS3 may have a slight game drought, what titles are coming out are all traditional games (though there are few with outstanding reviews *9.0 or above*), so my point stands: The PS3 has more "real" games than the Wii and will have even more by the end of 2007. Whether or not those games warrant your interest is a different arguement.
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 6:04PM (Unverified) said

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Nintendo should really save that stuff for the Today show and electronics trade shows, and show the more gamer oriented material at gaming trade shows like this and E3.
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 6:42PM (Unverified) said

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You talk about this gamer oriented stuff as if it exists. I mean, Nintendo for 2008 for gamers is Mario Kart... Mario Kart, and ummmmm... Mario Kart.
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 7:16PM Mr Khan said

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@ sheppy

You know that works both ways, they just haven't announced much 08 software, period

Looking at it, they announced Mario Kart and Wii Fit as 08 software at E3, and that was it. They just put more emphasis on the latter
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 6:07PM (Unverified) said

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Hmm...

Nintendo really wants to emphasize the whole "We're not even competing with these n00bs! Shooters? Please! EVERYONE LOVES PUPPIES!!!"
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 6:12PM Shagittarius said

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Nintendo used the backs of their fantards to cross the channel from gamerland to lamerland.
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 6:15PM mr nimblewick said

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That's clever. You get two "dumb" points.
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Posted: Aug 28th 2007 12:17AM (Unverified) said

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Maybe Shaggi has a point. I recently bought a Wii for both me and my girlfriend, but I know deep inside despite how fun the Wii is, it simply does very little for the hardcore gamer. That experience is best felt on the 360. And I do feel as if Nintendo has abandoned its hardcore audience. They really don't need us anymore. The casuals outnumber us to the extreme which fortunately corresponds to more sources of potential buyers.
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 6:13PM (Unverified) said

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It's stuff like this that really makes me feel like I got ripped off with the Wii. I got it at launch and got Trauma Center for it and beat it. So far there hasnt been anything else on it that remotely interested me.The only Nintendo game that I want to play is the new Super Smash Brothers,other than that..

I guess I had the dumb idea of getting some cool 3rd party games with this new control scheme. Silly me.
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 6:17PM mr nimblewick said

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You should have done your homework before buying. They have been open about which games have been coming out for it. Informed consumers are a good thing.
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 6:48PM (Unverified) said

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They have been open about wii games?
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 6:54PM (Unverified) said

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Actually, nimblequick, when Nintendo debuted the Wii, they were very adamant about how they were NOT going to abandon hardcore gamers. And yet here we are, a full year later, 5 of those promises are unofficially vaporware, and Nintendo game quality is going down. Seriously, check gamerankings.
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 7:05PM mr nimblewick said

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That's some nice truthiness sheppy. Keep it up.
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 7:07PM NintendoFanbot said

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SHEPPY:

According to GameRankings, ExciteTruck is better than Lair.

Yeah I know you'll probably tell me 'Bah, Fanboy drivel', but the fail began with even mentioning GameRankings as support of any claim.
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 7:22PM (Unverified) said

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At least you got Trauma Center at launch. It only just came out in Europe. But still, Nintendo will come up with something for 2008...right? How amazing would it be if there was a from the ground up Wii Zelda for Christmas 2008? It'll never happen, but still...
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 8:17PM (Unverified) said

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Nintendo canceled the 2 original games that seemed to be for the more hardcore. This happened *after* everyone bought their Wiis. We did our homework. Nintendo just screwed us.
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 8:56PM (Unverified) said

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I dunno. I'm a gamer and I bought a Wii because I thought it'd be fun.

It turns out I was right. I own nine games now and all but one is amazing. The mainstream ZoMg hardCoRe GamE Red Steel. It wasn't bad, but it was an incredibly generic FPS with horrible controls.

As a note, the games I own are: Zelda, Paper Mario, Elebits, Trauma Center, Super Monkey Ball, WarioWare, Wii Sports, Red Steel, and Metroid Prime 3... tomorrow.

I don't regret my purchase at all. I look at the 360. It has the same problems the original Xbox had: all the popular games are shooters and they'll end up on PCs soon enough where they belong alongside a keyboard and mouse. I look at the PS3. I saved myself $600 for a Blu-Ray player. And that's all it is.

You gotta give the third-party devs some time, man! The dev kit for Wii was only released about a year ago!
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 9:11PM (Unverified) said

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See, that's where we're different.

I still haven't beaten Trauma Center.
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 6:13PM (Unverified) said

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My 2 year old nephew loves WiiSports.. all he has to do is swing the wiimote around and hes a winner!
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 6:19PM mr nimblewick said

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You like any other game! All you have to do is press a button and you're a winner!

Small victories are small victories no matter the input device.
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Posted: Aug 28th 2007 4:55AM BurntMeatloaf said

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My sister's 2-year-old loves stacking wooden blocks and smearing spaghetti sauce in her hair.
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 6:14PM mr nimblewick said

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Dear Joystiq,

If you are going to take this tone with everything Nintendo does nowadays, please just don't even report on them. If you deem Wii Fit and Brain Training to be on the same level as Mystery Case Files and Peggle, do what you do with those and ignore them. There is a place for satire, but this post was snide for the sake of being snide.

Thank you.

Mr. Nimblewick
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 6:22PM (Unverified) said

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While I don't subscribe to the "sky is falling, Nintendo is abandoning the hardcore" mentality, I think it's ridiculous to comment on the tone of an article like this.
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 6:34PM mr nimblewick said

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Except that the post was essentially about how uninterested they were in what they were posting about. No news, other than that they stopped listening to the PR talk.

Was the story of "Nintendo is uninteresting" really news?
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 6:37PM cc123 said

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"Was the story of "Nintendo is uninteresting" really news?"

Well this is a gaming blog so from a gamers point of view, yes.
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 6:41PM Vegeta has a ps3 said

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Exactly!!! I mean the whole article sounded like it was written by a pissed off fanboy. I mean sure is Nintendo focusing on the casual crowd. But Nintendo has also proven that it's providing for us Hardcore gamers as well.
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 6:42PM (Unverified) said

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Mr. Nimblewick,

What would you expect from a Sony Apologist? (Jem is a rabid PS3 fanboy)

Personally, I think the Sony bloggers are the worse when it comes to reporting on other platforms.
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 6:43PM Vegeta has a ps3 said

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People need to remember that we Nintendo isn't only catering to us anymore. It would be unfair,and incredibly unsmart, if after the launch of the Wii shrugged off all of the casual gamers and just make games for Hardcore gamers.
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 6:50PM (Unverified) said

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dear joystiq,

i am a staunch nintendo fanboy and i request that you refrain from making an opinion. it is hard enough for me police all the negative nintendo comments in your comments section without having to correct yours. studies have shown that nintendo wii is the best system and has the best games. how can you refute it when studies have proven it? in the future, please refrain from saying anything negative about the nintendo corporation, as studies prove you to be wrong. also, please do not give us your negative opinion about any nintendo product or third-party product for nintendo, as studies will contradict anything you say. to conclude, studies show that the nintendo wii is the best video game console ever. all these studies and facts are unquestionable and are fully substantiated by my own opinion and high doses of cough syrup.

thank you.
/sarcasm
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 7:01PM mr nimblewick said

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/sarcasm speaks the truth. :P

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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 10:49PM samfish said

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Yeah, this story really was a massive load of bullshit. I'd rather hear about what actually was happening...not how some dope couldn't get over his dislike for Nintendo.
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 6:16PM NintendoFanbot said

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But but Metroooiiiiiiiid!!!

Wait, Metroid's a valid point!

Yeah everyone forget that Nintendo Samus game that comes out tomorrow.
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 6:27PM (Unverified) said

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That has gotten lost in the midst of Nintendo's new school bus driving simulator Hemorrhoid and that hopscotch spelling tutor / pony training thing.
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 6:47PM NintendoFanbot said

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REQUIRED:
Metroid has never really sold spectacularly well, even in the 16-bit days. So I don't see the point of mentioning present scenarios and ignoring that ignorant gamers, while criticizing Nintendo for hardly trying, have hardly given a series like Metroid, a QUALITY series, a real chance.
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 6:18PM sarc123 said

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I actually like what Nintendo is doing here (making gaming more mainstream). Video games will become a lot like TV and movies. There's going to be many different types released annually... some you'll like, some you don't.. but more is always better I'd say.
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 6:33PM Stupidiot said

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But it's also quite likely that developers will take sides and focus on either the hardcore or casual demographic. And it's quite obvious which side Nintendo now favours, isn't it? I'm not one of the people who's worried about this casual revolution in gaming, as it's very likely to be a passing fad. People can only play the same old repetetive, shallow games a certain amount of time before they either become bored with it entirely or crave something deeper and more challenging. Then what are they going to do? It shouldn't be long before Nintendo runs out of simple puzzles and repetetive daily tasks to convert into 'games' before people become bored and move on.
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Posted: Aug 27th 2007 9:14PM AoE said

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"Video games will become a lot like TV and movies." You mean, for the most part, highly derivative, uninspired, formulaic and designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator? Aren't we already there?
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