GameTrailers does an excellent job looking at the bright side as they go over Final Fantasy XI in their continuing retrospective. Remember when the idea of Final Fantasy going online sounded like a great idea, the dream of an entertaining and epic masterpiece that would revolutionize MMOs forever? Boy, were we all smoking the Moogle dung hard back then! Final Fantasy XI, which should have just been called Final Fantasy Online, brought an online experience that seemed fine at the time -- until the World of Warcraft came along.
According to the retrospective there are still 4 million people playing Final Fantasy XI and enjoying its amazing grind and unforgiving gameplay. Actually, it'd be good to hear from people who are still playing what kept them involved all this time.
I've always been disappointed that they made this game with the numeric FFXI. It is the only FF of the entire series that I have not played because it took the online MMO plunge, which I and my life were not ready to take. But I am curious to watch the retrospective to see what it is all about (downloading the film right now).
Personally, it was my first and last MMORPG. WoW users can suck it.
FFXI is brilliant in that its challenging and rewarding, but that's also its downside. Because of the instant gratification that WoW offers, FFXI can be seen by most as a game that is nothing but pure grinding and devotion, and they don't see beyond that.
What's hilarious is that those "hardcore" WoW players at endgame are essentially being forced to change how they play when they get there, as opposed to how they've been playing the whole time.
FFXI, on the other hand, is consistent. The idea of teamwork is integrated on a very deep level, going into combination melee attacks and well-timed magic spells for massive damage. Team work, at endgame, is made even more elaborate by the need of alliances (3 parties), and for the super hard-core events, 2-3 alliances, all working together.
The one flaw that I think is a problem with FFXI, however, is the amount of devotion that's needed. With all of the right ingredients in the mix, a person can lose years of his/her life to the game, as I have.
I personally quit last December on my birthday. I had 2 75s (Dragoon and Blackmage), and I was just getting sick of the game in general. I was surprised by the updates mentioned in the video, most notably dumbing down difficulty on CoP missions and the ability to choose which server you go to from the get-go, as someone who landed randomly on the famous Phoenix server (aka Webcomic server), as well as having finished the CoP storyline.
Dark-pen your an idiot. I'm a huge fan of FF and MMO and I played FFXI for two years and I couldn't agree less. FFXI is complete trash compared to WOW. FFXI has no instances, horrible pvp, and generally goes about things in horrible ways.
When I dropped FFXI for WOW I found the fact that you could solo mobs, and grind to 60 by yourself almost revolutionary. I know your kind. One of my best friends is still an FFXI addict and I detest it. FFXI has lush worlds and great character models and your just hiding behind that.
Your so wrong too. You know nothing about WoW. At endgame players are forced to either PvP (2v2, 3v3, or 5v5) for their gear, or raid in a group of 10-25. This isn't new to them at all considering they have been doing instances and grouping up for that for quite some time. PvP is also natural to anyone whos not an idiot or on a PvE realm.
The rich storyline you speak of? Ok, buddy. WoW has a storyline that would tear FFXI to shreds. Go look on any WoW fanboy website, there is a TON of history and lore to the world of warcraft in general that has spanned several games now.
FFXI UI? A list? This is a RT game not a taking turns strategy game. WoW's UI obliterates the menu system and allows you to easily access all of your moves, even if they aren't keybinded.
You've never invested time in WoW. It's so completely obvious because you have no idea what your talking about. WoW, compared to FFXI, is a complete revolution. WoW focuses on fun with a ton of work and grinding, and whats more is you need to make friends to get into a good raid group.
What happens when you can't find a group one day in FFXI? Your screwed cuz solo grinding is as much fun as a trip to the dentist for a redneck. If the groups aren't working out in a particular day, I can solo grind, quest, or PvP.
I played FFXI for two years. I've played WoW for two and a half years. My time in WoW has generally been fun and rewarding. My time in FFXI was boring.
Can we really take someone seriously who says to another "your [sic] wrong"? Come on! Is it really that difficult to type "you're"? Really?
Next: I've played both FFXI and WoW and I can plainly say that FFXI has a much better sense of community than WoW does. The entire idea behind FFXI was cooperation (that was its stated purpose going back to 2001). Now, if soloing is your thing then, by all means, do it. However, if I'm playing a game by myself I'm sure as hell not going to pay a monthly fee to play it. And, in my opinion, FFXI is much more interesting and exciting than WoW. But, it you just have to be like the herd, then have at...
And, lastly... Dude, you took your handle from FFX-2. You took it from the FF everyone loves to disown. Like we're really going to listen to you talk about good taste in gaming.
First off my name wasn't from FFX-2, I don't even like X-2. Actually it came from when I was randomizing names in WoW and finally found something I like and messed with it a bit. Secondly if your talking point is that I used "your" instead of "you're" then you're* plain out of ideas. WoW is only a solo experience if you choose to make it so. It's a choice, you can spend time in groups or solo. FFXI is only groups. I've played FFXI so I won't argue, FFXI has a much stronger sense of community than WoW.
You don't try and argue against any of my points though. FFXI is so much more structured. Sure you can argue that a sub-job is equal to talent trees but that's not true at all.
Not to just solo play. There were just days in FFXI that it took forever to find a group for my pally. In WoW if there isn't any groups going where I want I don't have to sit around in bastok all day.
My wife and I played for a year. The reason we finally gave up is because we were taking the game seriously, and attempting to play through its missions, quests, and side storylines, but no one else on our server seemed very interested in that - they just wanted to level as fast as possible.
It's a good game, and if Squenix decided to do another "Welcome Home" campaign, I might just jump back in to see what all has happened (chocobo racing!). But it's a huge timesink, so I doubt I would commit to it again.
I agree with Vegnagun. I played on phoenix (high five to the other dude that played there, know Erace or Chaoschimp by any chance? :P) for nearly 2 years.
The game is just too much of a relentless grind. It has a few good things going for it for sure, but they're just completely overshadowed by the insane grinding. The storyline for one was pretty fun and the general "feel" of the FF world was really nice.
Oh and dont get me started on de-levelling. That was the most rediculous time sink ever put into a game. It was eventually what made me quit the game. I was preparing to do a massive group mission that was in the making for at least a week or so. My group was all ready and we were about to meet up, when i got killed twice in a row due to DC's (thunderstorm FTL). All my plans were instantly ruined and i had to work for another 10-15 hours to recover from 2 DC deaths. How is that even slightly fair? ¬_¬
I have just hung up my WoW hat as well by selling my tier 6 rogue.
While i can say that WoW has some issues as well, i'm not bitter after quitting the game like i was with ffxi. Its still by far the best MMO ever made and i'll probably return when WOTLK comes out. Just because i'm not playing it at the moment, doesn't mean i wont totally praise its greatness. I still have a few friends that cling to FFXI, and even though i dont even play WoW atm, i'll still argue with them to the death why its infinitely better than FFXI.
Its a shame that mmo players are forced into "WoW or Boredom" kind of situation, but thats just the fact that WoW is such a powerhouse now. Its a shame it has no competition or alternatives. Maybe warhammer will remedy that a little, who knows.
Anyway in conclusion, FFXI was pretty terrible. Its a shame because it had potential, but in the end, it was just fundamentally flawed. Mostly by the fact that it was designed initially to be played on the freekin PS2.
PC players got the 100% shaft on that matter and were left with a cold, unintuitive, ugly ass port with horrendous controls and UI.
after ffx was a piece of crap, my interest in ff11 completely vanished. add in to that the huge price for a hard drive (or play it on a computer, but still with monthly fees) and I wasn't even willing to try it. Then later I heard stories about de-leveling and shit, and it re-affirmed my correct decision to pass it up.
I would like to give the 360 version a try but alas no demo and I can't find anywhere to rent it. Even though it goes for like $20-25 these days I still don't feel like dropping that kind of money without trying it out first. I have never cared for MMO's and I couldn't stand WoW so the chances of me liking this one are probably pretty slim.
FFXI is a serious love-hate relationship for me. I played it for about 4 months when it first came out and quit because it moved so slow. A couple years later there were some expansion packs and new classes so I re-bought it and quit after 6 months. Then I started it up again at the "Welcome Home" campaign..
That should have told me right there that it wasn't worth it. Not only did you have to re-buy the game, you had to buy extra characters. Not a problem for a lot of people but honestly was just BS in my mind.
I'm a solo player, plain and simple, but I sure as hell don't like playing a warrior, so I was forced into groups. So I got my brother and girlfriend playing with me and we all wind up on different servers and had to be a certain level to go to a new server... and start back at level 1. More BS.
THEN there's the content. The quest givers have no discernible look to them so it's hit or miss with that. The recipes were also complete guesswork. You literally needed a stategy guide or constant alt+tabbing with gamefaqs.com to find anything, quests and recipes.
I suppose WoW spoiled me, but honestly, when I'm paying $15 a month as a casual player, I should damn well be spoiled.
I played it on 360 for a couple months. The game had so much potential but the fact that you can't do anything alone and the grinding was extreme killed it. The video is also wrong about the 4 million user base. It's not even close to that.
FFXI was a good attempt for a console MMORPG, but as a PC game it was never as good as the other games already available.
I played it for a month, realized what a terrible grind it was and how bad the fighting mechanics were then dropped it like a suddenly discovered transvestite.
since the last expansion, FFXI does now have many different types of instanced combat zones (assault, salvage, einjar) which varies from parties of 6, 18 to 36 all dropping different types of 'end-game' gear.
the focus as someone has already said is on community and teamwork. But even that has changed a bit since the updates post-WoW release. The developers do try and keep up with the current mmo fads, implementing more side games (chocobo raising, the pit, ballista, etc). They've even made improvments in many of the jobs which make them more solo-able for ppl that like that sort of thing. ;P
I played FFXI for almost a year. I had a Dark Knight up to level 41. Let me tell you, I hated it then and after playing WoW for the last 3 weeks, I will never endorse such a crappy game. And here's one small reason... in the 3 weeks I've played WoW I'm almost level 40.
WoW has DEEP lore and history. I never felt FFXI had a story because I'd forget it while fighting mandys and worms for months on end. And that's what leveling in FFXI is, you fight higher level lesser mobs in a group over and over again, then fight their palette swapped counter part in another land. You absolutely cannot solo anything your level, which is nonsense and you fanboys will defend that anyway.
It's nice to have the option to solo your quests. I have a MUCH easier time getting money in WoW than I ever did in FFXI. I loved the FF franchise which drew me to the game, but FFXI lacked any of the allure of the past games.
FFXI charges you an extra dollar per extra character. That's ridiculous. WoW lets you choose your server, and make 15 characters on any number of them. I also disagree with the community aspect. The reason you can say FFXI has a stronger sense of community is due to the fact it never reached the populations WoW has. I've met more people I enjoy talking with and playing with in my short time with WoW then I ever did on FFXI. That's also because I rolled horde, and anyone who knows, alliance has much much more annoying people, and five year olds playing on their faction than horde does. I'm not fighting the same palette swapped mob over and over, while of course there are palette swapped mobs, I fight a variety of mobs, whatever I choose near my level. The more I level, the crazier and more bad ass mobs I encounter.
I can simply go on forever, but long story short, anyone who defends FFXI and calls it superior to WoW is a fanboy who doesn't want to admit they wasted years of their life playing the wrong mmo. By the way, I was so bored playing FFXI yet still played and knew I hated it. The final straw? Ding! Level 42, all new gear, sell my old gear. WIPE! DELEVEL! Can't wear my gear now and can't afford new gear. I needed to get a new PS2 after that, because I shit you not I threw it across the room smashing it against the wall into pieces. WoW will never do that to me.
You know, for the initial complaints that i had (see post #2 up there), FF XI still holds a special place for me. It was my first MMO experience and in comparison to WoW, every fight that you won was hard earned because of the necessity of a good group dynamic. In WoW you can solo if you want, but FF XI forced you to think dynamically about your role in a group. Anyone remember the precision needed for those skillchain attacks? Macros were a must.
The world of FFXI also made you feel like you were part of the main storyline...when I first started playing WoW, I was surprised at the lack of immersion. FFXI boasted tailor made cut scenes for completing various missions. It felt rewarding to be acknowledged for the completion of a long quest line.
The ability to quest with friends from Japan and other parts of the world and the auto-translator made for a truly global experience.
The music was gorgeous as well.
Now for the downside...as I have written earlier, there is no soloing. Enemies that are your level will constantly kick your @$$.
And crafting? I didn't even bother, as the whole system was broken.
But man...even writing about the negatives, I can't help but want to play it again...even though i'm probably seeing the game through the distortion of time...
WoW gets criticized for being easy, and, yeah, but this isn't technically true.
The great thing about WoW, and the reason why its so popular, is it can be as easy or as hard as you want it to be. And you're rewarded with some nice things, regardless if you solo or are a hardcore raider.
Like most people (but maybe not most MMO players, I dunno) I have a job. Because of that, I usually am only able to play WoW about 2 or 3 hours a day, max. And yet here I am, a Level 70 Shaman, working towards my Netherdrake mount, and actually making progress. I'm a casual player, and yet WoW can still be a rewarding experience for me.
FFXI just requires way too much time and commitment to actually get anything meaningful accomplished. Its fans may celebrate the game as being "hardcore" but to most people, "hardcore" just means "not fun."
WoW is the best, most balanced MMO on the market right now, and it shows it with its number of subscribers.
There's an assumption on Western sites like this one that FFXI is fundamentally inferior to WoW. You can see it in the original blog post here, and in most of the replies following it. And it's not just limited to FFXI: a few months ago on this site there was a story about a developer who said MMO makers should just give up on the fantasy genre because WoW has already perfected it. If it's the most popular, it's obviously the best, right?
And it annoys me, because not only is it ridiculous, it's an unfair comparison. FFXI and WoW target very different audiences. FFXI is a very Japanese game: it's about cooperation, patience, and dedication. WoW is aimed at a Western mentality, which values independence, individual achievement, and quick gratification - and the game does it exceptionally well. Neither of these outlooks is inherently superior to the other, and it's absurd to think that either applies universally to everyone in any culture. There are just a whole lot more people interested in the latter one.
I played FFXI for close to 4 years, and it was one of the best gaming experiences of my life. If you can't understand why that is, then I'm not sure I can explain it to you. Yeah, it was tough. I worked for every level, every piece of equipment, every craft skill, every gil. But there's a very basic psychological principle that says rewards are directly proportional to the work you put into getting them. That fact ensures that FFXI is more satisfying than WoW could possibly be, at least for the people this kind of thing appeals to. We were in -awe- of the first people to hit the level cap. We worshipped the people with the rarest gear, and we could look forward to that kind of worship if we ever reached that state. We did it because we knew they had earned every bit of it.
(I know, incidentally, that not everything in WoW is handed to you on a silver platter. Endgame takes a lot of work, and apparently people like it. But if you understand that, maybe you can understand the appeal of a whole game built around that idea).
And don't think the people who play other MMOs just haven't seen the glory that is WoW. I knew at least a dozen people who left FFXI for WoW, only to return. I heard about hundreds more on message boards. They'd say things like "It was too easy," or "The community sucked," or "After 6 months I didn't make a single friend." FFXI is for these people.
I am current a player of Final Fantasy XI. Unlike many players, I did not find the game appealing in the beginning and joined after they made many significant changes to it. There isn't much that I can say really except for this: Originally, the game's GMs were out-sourced to Sony. Square has taken control of the game now and they are finally beginning to listen to players' requests.
We've seen significant changes in the past year. The difficulty of the game has been significantly lowered and Puppetmaster (an original job, not found in any other Final Fantasy title) has been added, bringing the total number of soloable jobs to 2. The game is still party-oriented and those that take the solo route will find themselves enjoying the game less than others who do not.
That isn't to say that the game doesn't have issues. The interface is horrible and Square has said time and again that it is due to their continued support of the game on the Playstation 2. In fact, that is the biggest thing that is holding the game back. The largest base of Japanese players still plays in the ancient console. The community has stepped forward though, and supplanted the PC version with things that make it much easier to use. Almost all of the players who use the PC version use a Windower application.
In fact, that's one thing that I haven't really experienced as much of in any other MMO that I've played (including WOW); the community is very strong. We've had to come together because of the poor support when Sony was in charge of regulating the game. The community is strong and there are a myriad of inside jokes that can only be gotten by those who actively participate in the community.
The game's visuals look good, but the engine is dated. It doesn't use any form of hardware acceleration (not even on the PC!) and so the game itself is a beast to run on Windows. Linux support via WINE or Cedega is non-existent. The developers finally announced that they will upgrade to DirectX 9 when the new expansion.
Speaking of that, we're now approaching our fourth expansion and with it we'll be allowed to travel into the past and experience the Crystal War first hand. That's another thing about the game that really appeals to me: the depth of the story telling. The original game itself had a deep story that told of the Shadow Lord and his resurrection. Rise of the Zilart told the story of the Zilart and their attempt to activate the floating continent of th Tu'Lia. Chains of Promathia brought with it the mother crystals and the sleeping god Promathia. Then Treasures of Aht Urghan gave us the ability to travel to the east and allowed us to experience epic battles as players fight the beastmen for control of a mysterious artifact known as the Astral Candescence. It's really like getting five well fleshed out Final Fantasy storylines in one game.
I don't know though. I guess to answer the question of the original poster, I keep playing because I enjoy the game immensely.
MMOs in general hold little interest for me, because I do not find the endless cycle of "get more levels and gear so you can fight to get more levels and gear" to be enjoyable. Contrary to what was said by some idiot above, however, FFXI (Chains of Promathia in particular) has an incredibly detailed and involved plot, surpassing many single-player entries in the franchise. It is THIS aspect, along with fulfilling teamwork in mind-numbingly difficult battles, that kept me going. Once I finished the storyline and messed around a bit, I was done.
But it was one hell of a good time. Screw other MMOs and their collection-based mental trap BS.
I played FFXI for about 6 months and had to quit because of lack of funds, (Being a University student and all) But its the best MMO I've played, the reason why it was the best? It had the friendliest people ever :D
Tbh I haven't played many other MMOs but the ones I did like Guild Wars seemed to be a bit I dunno unfriendly :/
But yeah the gameplay was pretty good still for FFXI, and it did suck waiting to try and get into a party. But when I was in a party it was fun :D And I only met one annoying person in the whole time of playing :o
I've been playing FFXI relatively casually for the past four years or so. Even though I don't play nearly as long or as hard as some of my friends, I still have a good number of accomplishments under my belt.
Just like some others here, I was lucky enough to end up on Phoenix. ({word} to your mother :D) I've spent almost my entire duration playing with the Little-Gamers linkshell. For those who are unfamiliar with the game, a linkshell is like a guild. As others have said, the community is very strong. Square Enix has even added a community site where it hosts many linkshell forums at no extra cost.
I know of a Japanese player who flew his whole family over to the USA, just so they could meet and hang out with a person whom he had played with for years. For more proof of how strong the community can be, just look at the people in the video cosplaying. X_x'
Because teamwork is so so interwoven with the ideas behind the game, because the population hasn't exploded like it did in WoW, and because the PvP aspect is a battlefield/sports event--not full on PvP as I've seen in other MMOs--everyone generally gets along well. I've had to deal with relatively few ass-hats. Of course, if a player is an ass to a pile of people, who will want to party with that person?
The community, music, world, stories, and the development team are all great aspects of the game.
That being said, the focus on teamwork makes the game quite different than a beast like WoW. They aren't going to appeal to the same players. The first levels can be horrid, or fun. They're generally horrid, as it's a number of new players who don't understand how the game works yet. If you aren't a patient person, you will most likely have trouble swallowing the leveling grind aspect.
I suggest that before a person begins playing, they find a linkshell online. There are plenty
Also, the graphics are looking dated. This is a failure of the all platforms/all media idea I suspect, as the PS2 and it's lower memory/rendering abilities tie the developers hands. I would think that Sony dropping support for the hard dive in later PS2s was a bit of a sting to Square as well.
Many people complain about deleveling. I've been upset my fair share of times over it. But, then I learned how to avoid getting killed. I think this aspect is hardest on Paladins and other tanks. But, honestly, most people playing these jobs know that they are going to die a lot and they keep an experience point buffer. Or, if they get a Raise spell cast on them--which is not always an option at lower levels--they get a good amount of their experience back.
However, leveling has gotten much easier with the addition of ToAU. And, after 4 years there is a seemingly unending amount of other things to do. Raising, training, racing, and betting on Chocobos. Gambling, a huge number of quests and missions, harvesting, fishing, mining, crafting, etc. Even after a player has hit level 75--the highest level available--they can still try and get their second level relic gear in Dynamis, get prizes and items to upgrade that gear Limbus, get virtually broken gear in Salvage, fend off beastmen attacks with hundreds of other players in the city of Aht Urhgan during Besieged events. They can take small parties into Assault, take a second job to 75 (without the NEED to create a new character.) or choose from a number of other activities.
And hey, no dead gnomes falling from the sky! =p Square has taken some huge and really visible steps against the RMT (Real Money Trade) issues that many MMOs suffer from. While I sometimes still bump into a group of RMTs leveling, the overall economy feels largely under control.
I sound like a fanboy. This went on waaayy longer than I thought it would. >_>'
The biggest reasons that people seem to dislike FFXI are that they don't have the time or patiences for it, especially the leveling. Like many other very good games it has it's downfalls. Ultimately one of the biggest being that it only has a tenancy to get better the more you play. Another being the trouble in working out the logistics of large groups.
The fact of the matter is that not everyone enjoys Oblivion, Half Life, Guitar Hero, or the monster that is WoW. (I've had plenty of people tell me how much they disliked WoW.) That doesn't mean that these aren't very good games. FFXI is still strong and will most likely be around for years. Whether a person will enjoy it really comes down to matters of personal taste and what they are looking for in an MMO. It's not much different than asking if a person enjoys Halo more than Unreal Tournament.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Jono Stars @ Sep 5th 2007 6:02AM
makes me almost want to go back and play FF XI again...until i remember the $100+ i spent for the PS2 hard drive add on! @$&@#*&
Truepatriot @ Sep 5th 2007 6:51AM
lol same! i lost a year in ffxi @_@
Jono Stars @ Sep 5th 2007 6:03AM
oh and the whole mandatory grouping and de-leveling when you die parts sucked too.
eatrice @ Sep 5th 2007 6:46AM
I've always been disappointed that they made this game with the numeric FFXI. It is the only FF of the entire series that I have not played because it took the online MMO plunge, which I and my life were not ready to take. But I am curious to watch the retrospective to see what it is all about (downloading the film right now).
Dark-Pen @ Sep 5th 2007 7:38AM
Personally, it was my first and last MMORPG. WoW users can suck it.
FFXI is brilliant in that its challenging and rewarding, but that's also its downside. Because of the instant gratification that WoW offers, FFXI can be seen by most as a game that is nothing but pure grinding and devotion, and they don't see beyond that.
What's hilarious is that those "hardcore" WoW players at endgame are essentially being forced to change how they play when they get there, as opposed to how they've been playing the whole time.
FFXI, on the other hand, is consistent. The idea of teamwork is integrated on a very deep level, going into combination melee attacks and well-timed magic spells for massive damage. Team work, at endgame, is made even more elaborate by the need of alliances (3 parties), and for the super hard-core events, 2-3 alliances, all working together.
The one flaw that I think is a problem with FFXI, however, is the amount of devotion that's needed. With all of the right ingredients in the mix, a person can lose years of his/her life to the game, as I have.
I personally quit last December on my birthday. I had 2 75s (Dragoon and Blackmage), and I was just getting sick of the game in general. I was surprised by the updates mentioned in the video, most notably dumbing down difficulty on CoP missions and the ability to choose which server you go to from the get-go, as someone who landed randomly on the famous Phoenix server (aka Webcomic server), as well as having finished the CoP storyline.
Vegnagun @ Sep 5th 2007 8:18AM
Dark-pen your an idiot. I'm a huge fan of FF and MMO and I played FFXI for two years and I couldn't agree less. FFXI is complete trash compared to WOW. FFXI has no instances, horrible pvp, and generally goes about things in horrible ways.
When I dropped FFXI for WOW I found the fact that you could solo mobs, and grind to 60 by yourself almost revolutionary. I know your kind. One of my best friends is still an FFXI addict and I detest it. FFXI has lush worlds and great character models and your just hiding behind that.
Your so wrong too. You know nothing about WoW. At endgame players are forced to either PvP (2v2, 3v3, or 5v5) for their gear, or raid in a group of 10-25. This isn't new to them at all considering they have been doing instances and grouping up for that for quite some time. PvP is also natural to anyone whos not an idiot or on a PvE realm.
The rich storyline you speak of? Ok, buddy. WoW has a storyline that would tear FFXI to shreds. Go look on any WoW fanboy website, there is a TON of history and lore to the world of warcraft in general that has spanned several games now.
FFXI UI? A list? This is a RT game not a taking turns strategy game. WoW's UI obliterates the menu system and allows you to easily access all of your moves, even if they aren't keybinded.
You've never invested time in WoW. It's so completely obvious because you have no idea what your talking about. WoW, compared to FFXI, is a complete revolution. WoW focuses on fun with a ton of work and grinding, and whats more is you need to make friends to get into a good raid group.
What happens when you can't find a group one day in FFXI? Your screwed cuz solo grinding is as much fun as a trip to the dentist for a redneck. If the groups aren't working out in a particular day, I can solo grind, quest, or PvP.
I played FFXI for two years. I've played WoW for two and a half years. My time in WoW has generally been fun and rewarding. My time in FFXI was boring.
Geoffrey Sperl @ Sep 5th 2007 8:26AM
Can we really take someone seriously who says to another "your [sic] wrong"? Come on! Is it really that difficult to type "you're"? Really?
Next: I've played both FFXI and WoW and I can plainly say that FFXI has a much better sense of community than WoW does. The entire idea behind FFXI was cooperation (that was its stated purpose going back to 2001). Now, if soloing is your thing then, by all means, do it. However, if I'm playing a game by myself I'm sure as hell not going to pay a monthly fee to play it. And, in my opinion, FFXI is much more interesting and exciting than WoW. But, it you just have to be like the herd, then have at...
And, lastly... Dude, you took your handle from FFX-2. You took it from the FF everyone loves to disown. Like we're really going to listen to you talk about good taste in gaming.
Vegnagun @ Sep 5th 2007 9:55AM
First off my name wasn't from FFX-2, I don't even like X-2. Actually it came from when I was randomizing names in WoW and finally found something I like and messed with it a bit. Secondly if your talking point is that I used "your" instead of "you're" then you're* plain out of ideas. WoW is only a solo experience if you choose to make it so. It's a choice, you can spend time in groups or solo. FFXI is only groups. I've played FFXI so I won't argue, FFXI has a much stronger sense of community than WoW.
You don't try and argue against any of my points though. FFXI is so much more structured. Sure you can argue that a sub-job is equal to talent trees but that's not true at all.
Vegnagun @ Sep 5th 2007 10:01AM
Yeah I just reread what I wrote. Summer turned my writing skills to shit, but still it doesn't make my point any less valid.
Joshua Marketis @ Sep 5th 2007 1:29PM
"When I dropped FFXI for WOW I found the fact that you could solo mobs, and grind to 60 by yourself almost revolutionary."
And the point of playing an online game to play by yourself is what exactly?
I'm Pebe on the Unicorn server if anyone wants to say hi. :P
Vegnagun @ Sep 5th 2007 3:49PM
Not to just solo play. There were just days in FFXI that it took forever to find a group for my pally. In WoW if there isn't any groups going where I want I don't have to sit around in bastok all day.
Tim @ Sep 18th 2007 1:52PM
So you spent two years playing a game that you thought was boring, and Dark-Pen is the idiot because he's still playing a game that he enjoys...?
Geoffrey Sperl @ Sep 5th 2007 8:19AM
My wife and I played for a year. The reason we finally gave up is because we were taking the game seriously, and attempting to play through its missions, quests, and side storylines, but no one else on our server seemed very interested in that - they just wanted to level as fast as possible.
It's a good game, and if Squenix decided to do another "Welcome Home" campaign, I might just jump back in to see what all has happened (chocobo racing!). But it's a huge timesink, so I doubt I would commit to it again.
Jeff @ Sep 5th 2007 8:32AM
I agree with Vegnagun. I played on phoenix (high five to the other dude that played there, know Erace or Chaoschimp by any chance? :P) for nearly 2 years.
The game is just too much of a relentless grind. It has a few good things going for it for sure, but they're just completely overshadowed by the insane grinding. The storyline for one was pretty fun and the general "feel" of the FF world was really nice.
Oh and dont get me started on de-levelling. That was the most rediculous time sink ever put into a game. It was eventually what made me quit the game. I was preparing to do a massive group mission that was in the making for at least a week or so. My group was all ready and we were about to meet up, when i got killed twice in a row due to DC's (thunderstorm FTL). All my plans were instantly ruined and i had to work for another 10-15 hours to recover from 2 DC deaths. How is that even slightly fair? ¬_¬
I have just hung up my WoW hat as well by selling my tier 6 rogue.
While i can say that WoW has some issues as well, i'm not bitter after quitting the game like i was with ffxi. Its still by far the best MMO ever made and i'll probably return when WOTLK comes out. Just because i'm not playing it at the moment, doesn't mean i wont totally praise its greatness. I still have a few friends that cling to FFXI, and even though i dont even play WoW atm, i'll still argue with them to the death why its infinitely better than FFXI.
Its a shame that mmo players are forced into "WoW or Boredom" kind of situation, but thats just the fact that WoW is such a powerhouse now. Its a shame it has no competition or alternatives. Maybe warhammer will remedy that a little, who knows.
Anyway in conclusion, FFXI was pretty terrible. Its a shame because it had potential, but in the end, it was just fundamentally flawed. Mostly by the fact that it was designed initially to be played on the freekin PS2.
PC players got the 100% shaft on that matter and were left with a cold, unintuitive, ugly ass port with horrendous controls and UI.
blooh @ Sep 5th 2007 8:51AM
after ffx was a piece of crap, my interest in ff11 completely vanished. add in to that the huge price for a hard drive (or play it on a computer, but still with monthly fees) and I wasn't even willing to try it. Then later I heard stories about de-leveling and shit, and it re-affirmed my correct decision to pass it up.
rDr4g0n @ Sep 5th 2007 8:52AM
the music in ff11 is so much better than the music in wow. every tune in ff11 is a masterpiece... wow is mostly incidental music.
Vegnagun @ Sep 5th 2007 9:58AM
I give you that but WoW surpasses FFXI in every single aspect other than music and graphics.
Dark-Pen @ Sep 5th 2007 9:40AM
lulz
flamebait ftw
Anyways, yes, I recognize the name Chaoschimp. Wasn't that an Elvaan monk or something?
Atilac @ Sep 5th 2007 9:43AM
This episode is going to be a bitch to archive. Over 350 + MB.
Twist @ Sep 5th 2007 10:15AM
I would like to give the 360 version a try but alas no demo and I can't find anywhere to rent it. Even though it goes for like $20-25 these days I still don't feel like dropping that kind of money without trying it out first. I have never cared for MMO's and I couldn't stand WoW so the chances of me liking this one are probably pretty slim.
Mr Slavio @ Sep 5th 2007 10:23AM
It still frustrates me how much of a grind that game was. I really wanted to get into the story but it was just too much work. Tis a shame.
Aunalis @ Sep 5th 2007 10:38AM
FFXI is a serious love-hate relationship for me. I played it for about 4 months when it first came out and quit because it moved so slow. A couple years later there were some expansion packs and new classes so I re-bought it and quit after 6 months. Then I started it up again at the "Welcome Home" campaign..
That should have told me right there that it wasn't worth it. Not only did you have to re-buy the game, you had to buy extra characters. Not a problem for a lot of people but honestly was just BS in my mind.
I'm a solo player, plain and simple, but I sure as hell don't like playing a warrior, so I was forced into groups. So I got my brother and girlfriend playing with me and we all wind up on different servers and had to be a certain level to go to a new server... and start back at level 1. More BS.
THEN there's the content. The quest givers have no discernible look to them so it's hit or miss with that. The recipes were also complete guesswork. You literally needed a stategy guide or constant alt+tabbing with gamefaqs.com to find anything, quests and recipes.
I suppose WoW spoiled me, but honestly, when I'm paying $15 a month as a casual player, I should damn well be spoiled.
Aunalis @ Sep 5th 2007 10:41AM
Oh, and, in before Geoffrey Sperl can say "can you take someone who spells "strategy" as "stategy"?! Come on, is it so hard to type that extra 'r'??"
:D
VampireHunter Z @ Sep 5th 2007 11:20AM
I played it on 360 for a couple months. The game had so much potential but the fact that you can't do anything alone and the grinding was extreme killed it. The video is also wrong about the 4 million user base. It's not even close to that.
Shagittarius @ Sep 5th 2007 11:30AM
FFXI was a good attempt for a console MMORPG, but as a PC game it was never as good as the other games already available.
I played it for a month, realized what a terrible grind it was and how bad the fighting mechanics were then dropped it like a suddenly discovered transvestite.
mashengo @ Sep 5th 2007 1:06PM
since the last expansion, FFXI does now have many different types of instanced combat zones (assault, salvage, einjar) which varies from parties of 6, 18 to 36 all dropping different types of 'end-game' gear.
the focus as someone has already said is on community and teamwork. But even that has changed a bit since the updates post-WoW release. The developers do try and keep up with the current mmo fads, implementing more side games (chocobo raising, the pit, ballista, etc). They've even made improvments in many of the jobs which make them more solo-able for ppl that like that sort of thing. ;P
Nolok @ Sep 5th 2007 1:13PM
I played FFXI for almost a year. I had a Dark Knight up to level 41. Let me tell you, I hated it then and after playing WoW for the last 3 weeks, I will never endorse such a crappy game. And here's one small reason... in the 3 weeks I've played WoW I'm almost level 40.
WoW has DEEP lore and history. I never felt FFXI had a story because I'd forget it while fighting mandys and worms for months on end. And that's what leveling in FFXI is, you fight higher level lesser mobs in a group over and over again, then fight their palette swapped counter part in another land. You absolutely cannot solo anything your level, which is nonsense and you fanboys will defend that anyway.
It's nice to have the option to solo your quests. I have a MUCH easier time getting money in WoW than I ever did in FFXI. I loved the FF franchise which drew me to the game, but FFXI lacked any of the allure of the past games.
FFXI charges you an extra dollar per extra character. That's ridiculous. WoW lets you choose your server, and make 15 characters on any number of them. I also disagree with the community aspect. The reason you can say FFXI has a stronger sense of community is due to the fact it never reached the populations WoW has. I've met more people I enjoy talking with and playing with in my short time with WoW then I ever did on FFXI. That's also because I rolled horde, and anyone who knows, alliance has much much more annoying people, and five year olds playing on their faction than horde does. I'm not fighting the same palette swapped mob over and over, while of course there are palette swapped mobs, I fight a variety of mobs, whatever I choose near my level. The more I level, the crazier and more bad ass mobs I encounter.
I can simply go on forever, but long story short, anyone who defends FFXI and calls it superior to WoW is a fanboy who doesn't want to admit they wasted years of their life playing the wrong mmo. By the way, I was so bored playing FFXI yet still played and knew I hated it. The final straw? Ding! Level 42, all new gear, sell my old gear. WIPE! DELEVEL! Can't wear my gear now and can't afford new gear. I needed to get a new PS2 after that, because I shit you not I threw it across the room smashing it against the wall into pieces. WoW will never do that to me.
Jono Stars @ Sep 5th 2007 1:17PM
You know, for the initial complaints that i had (see post #2 up there), FF XI still holds a special place for me. It was my first MMO experience and in comparison to WoW, every fight that you won was hard earned because of the necessity of a good group dynamic. In WoW you can solo if you want, but FF XI forced you to think dynamically about your role in a group. Anyone remember the precision needed for those skillchain attacks? Macros were a must.
The world of FFXI also made you feel like you were part of the main storyline...when I first started playing WoW, I was surprised at the lack of immersion. FFXI boasted tailor made cut scenes for completing various missions. It felt rewarding to be acknowledged for the completion of a long quest line.
The ability to quest with friends from Japan and other parts of the world and the auto-translator made for a truly global experience.
The music was gorgeous as well.
Now for the downside...as I have written earlier, there is no soloing. Enemies that are your level will constantly kick your @$$.
And crafting? I didn't even bother, as the whole system was broken.
But man...even writing about the negatives, I can't help but want to play it again...even though i'm probably seeing the game through the distortion of time...
Werbal @ Sep 5th 2007 1:54PM
WoW gets criticized for being easy, and, yeah, but this isn't technically true.
The great thing about WoW, and the reason why its so popular, is it can be as easy or as hard as you want it to be. And you're rewarded with some nice things, regardless if you solo or are a hardcore raider.
Like most people (but maybe not most MMO players, I dunno) I have a job. Because of that, I usually am only able to play WoW about 2 or 3 hours a day, max. And yet here I am, a Level 70 Shaman, working towards my Netherdrake mount, and actually making progress. I'm a casual player, and yet WoW can still be a rewarding experience for me.
FFXI just requires way too much time and commitment to actually get anything meaningful accomplished. Its fans may celebrate the game as being "hardcore" but to most people, "hardcore" just means "not fun."
WoW is the best, most balanced MMO on the market right now, and it shows it with its number of subscribers.
Bluebrake @ Sep 5th 2007 2:35PM
There's an assumption on Western sites like this one that FFXI is fundamentally inferior to WoW. You can see it in the original blog post here, and in most of the replies following it. And it's not just limited to FFXI: a few months ago on this site there was a story about a developer who said MMO makers should just give up on the fantasy genre because WoW has already perfected it. If it's the most popular, it's obviously the best, right?
And it annoys me, because not only is it ridiculous, it's an unfair comparison. FFXI and WoW target very different audiences. FFXI is a very Japanese game: it's about cooperation, patience, and dedication. WoW is aimed at a Western mentality, which values independence, individual achievement, and quick gratification - and the game does it exceptionally well. Neither of these outlooks is inherently superior to the other, and it's absurd to think that either applies universally to everyone in any culture. There are just a whole lot more people interested in the latter one.
I played FFXI for close to 4 years, and it was one of the best gaming experiences of my life. If you can't understand why that is, then I'm not sure I can explain it to you. Yeah, it was tough. I worked for every level, every piece of equipment, every craft skill, every gil. But there's a very basic psychological principle that says rewards are directly proportional to the work you put into getting them. That fact ensures that FFXI is more satisfying than WoW could possibly be, at least for the people this kind of thing appeals to. We were in -awe- of the first people to hit the level cap. We worshipped the people with the rarest gear, and we could look forward to that kind of worship if we ever reached that state. We did it because we knew they had earned every bit of it.
(I know, incidentally, that not everything in WoW is handed to you on a silver platter. Endgame takes a lot of work, and apparently people like it. But if you understand that, maybe you can understand the appeal of a whole game built around that idea).
And don't think the people who play other MMOs just haven't seen the glory that is WoW. I knew at least a dozen people who left FFXI for WoW, only to return. I heard about hundreds more on message boards. They'd say things like "It was too easy," or "The community sucked," or "After 6 months I didn't make a single friend." FFXI is for these people.
Yoni @ Sep 5th 2007 4:55PM
Amen, brother. Preach it.
shirizaan @ Sep 6th 2007 1:33AM
I am current a player of Final Fantasy XI. Unlike many players, I did not find the game appealing in the beginning and joined after they made many significant changes to it. There isn't much that I can say really except for this: Originally, the game's GMs were out-sourced to Sony. Square has taken control of the game now and they are finally beginning to listen to players' requests.
We've seen significant changes in the past year. The difficulty of the game has been significantly lowered and Puppetmaster (an original job, not found in any other Final Fantasy title) has been added, bringing the total number of soloable jobs to 2. The game is still party-oriented and those that take the solo route will find themselves enjoying the game less than others who do not.
That isn't to say that the game doesn't have issues. The interface is horrible and Square has said time and again that it is due to their continued support of the game on the Playstation 2. In fact, that is the biggest thing that is holding the game back. The largest base of Japanese players still plays in the ancient console. The community has stepped forward though, and supplanted the PC version with things that make it much easier to use. Almost all of the players who use the PC version use a Windower application.
In fact, that's one thing that I haven't really experienced as much of in any other MMO that I've played (including WOW); the community is very strong. We've had to come together because of the poor support when Sony was in charge of regulating the game. The community is strong and there are a myriad of inside jokes that can only be gotten by those who actively participate in the community.
The game's visuals look good, but the engine is dated. It doesn't use any form of hardware acceleration (not even on the PC!) and so the game itself is a beast to run on Windows. Linux support via WINE or Cedega is non-existent. The developers finally announced that they will upgrade to DirectX 9 when the new expansion.
Speaking of that, we're now approaching our fourth expansion and with it we'll be allowed to travel into the past and experience the Crystal War first hand. That's another thing about the game that really appeals to me: the depth of the story telling. The original game itself had a deep story that told of the Shadow Lord and his resurrection. Rise of the Zilart told the story of the Zilart and their attempt to activate the floating continent of th Tu'Lia. Chains of Promathia brought with it the mother crystals and the sleeping god Promathia. Then Treasures of Aht Urghan gave us the ability to travel to the east and allowed us to experience epic battles as players fight the beastmen for control of a mysterious artifact known as the Astral Candescence. It's really like getting five well fleshed out Final Fantasy storylines in one game.
I don't know though. I guess to answer the question of the original poster, I keep playing because I enjoy the game immensely.
blooh @ Sep 6th 2007 3:30AM
you can do time-travel missions in wow too. and they're cool and fun :)
i quit wow about a month after hitting 70 though, the grind was getting boring and I knew it would never end
maybe I'll go back to CoV, if they ever get around to making a sequel
JimmyTheMonkey @ Sep 6th 2007 11:53AM
I gave a year of my life to this game. There were a lot of flaws, but the amazing people I met made me forget and come back every day.
Feep @ Sep 6th 2007 1:11PM
MMOs in general hold little interest for me, because I do not find the endless cycle of "get more levels and gear so you can fight to get more levels and gear" to be enjoyable. Contrary to what was said by some idiot above, however, FFXI (Chains of Promathia in particular) has an incredibly detailed and involved plot, surpassing many single-player entries in the franchise. It is THIS aspect, along with fulfilling teamwork in mind-numbingly difficult battles, that kept me going. Once I finished the storyline and messed around a bit, I was done.
But it was one hell of a good time. Screw other MMOs and their collection-based mental trap BS.
Pawsaldo @ Sep 6th 2007 1:34PM
I played FFXI for about 6 months and had to quit because of lack of funds, (Being a University student and all) But its the best MMO I've played, the reason why it was the best?
It had the friendliest people ever :D
Tbh I haven't played many other MMOs but the ones I did like Guild Wars seemed to be a bit I dunno unfriendly :/
But yeah the gameplay was pretty good still for FFXI, and it did suck waiting to try and get into a party. But when I was in a party it was fun :D
And I only met one annoying person in the whole time of playing :o
Hagen_DeChainsaw @ Sep 10th 2007 5:31PM
I've been playing FFXI relatively casually for the past four years or so. Even though I don't play nearly as long or as hard as some of my friends, I still have a good number of accomplishments under my belt.
Just like some others here, I was lucky enough to end up on Phoenix. ({word} to your mother :D) I've spent almost my entire duration playing with the Little-Gamers linkshell. For those who are unfamiliar with the game, a linkshell is like a guild. As others have said, the community is very strong. Square Enix has even added a community site where it hosts many linkshell forums at no extra cost.
I know of a Japanese player who flew his whole family over to the USA, just so they could meet and hang out with a person whom he had played with for years. For more proof of how strong the community can be, just look at the people in the video cosplaying. X_x'
Because teamwork is so so interwoven with the ideas behind the game, because the population hasn't exploded like it did in WoW, and because the PvP aspect is a battlefield/sports event--not full on PvP as I've seen in other MMOs--everyone generally gets along well. I've had to deal with relatively few ass-hats. Of course, if a player is an ass to a pile of people, who will want to party with that person?
The community, music, world, stories, and the development team are all great aspects of the game.
That being said, the focus on teamwork makes the game quite different than a beast like WoW. They aren't going to appeal to the same players. The first levels can be horrid, or fun. They're generally horrid, as it's a number of new players who don't understand how the game works yet. If you aren't a patient person, you will most likely have trouble swallowing the leveling grind aspect.
I suggest that before a person begins playing, they find a linkshell online. There are plenty
Also, the graphics are looking dated. This is a failure of the all platforms/all media idea I suspect, as the PS2 and it's lower memory/rendering abilities tie the developers hands. I would think that Sony dropping support for the hard dive in later PS2s was a bit of a sting to Square as well.
Many people complain about deleveling. I've been upset my fair share of times over it. But, then I learned how to avoid getting killed. I think this aspect is hardest on Paladins and other tanks. But, honestly, most people playing these jobs know that they are going to die a lot and they keep an experience point buffer. Or, if they get a Raise spell cast on them--which is not always an option at lower levels--they get a good amount of their experience back.
However, leveling has gotten much easier with the addition of ToAU. And, after 4 years there is a seemingly unending amount of other things to do. Raising, training, racing, and betting on Chocobos. Gambling, a huge number of quests and missions, harvesting, fishing, mining, crafting, etc. Even after a player has hit level 75--the highest level available--they can still try and get their second level relic gear in Dynamis, get prizes and items to upgrade that gear Limbus, get virtually broken gear in Salvage, fend off beastmen attacks with hundreds of other players in the city of Aht Urhgan during Besieged events. They can take small parties into Assault, take a second job to 75 (without the NEED to create a new character.) or choose from a number of other activities.
And hey, no dead gnomes falling from the sky! =p
Square has taken some huge and really visible steps against the RMT (Real Money Trade) issues that many MMOs suffer from. While I sometimes still bump into a group of RMTs leveling, the overall economy feels largely under control.
I sound like a fanboy. This went on waaayy longer than I thought it would. >_>'
The biggest reasons that people seem to dislike FFXI are that they don't have the time or patiences for it, especially the leveling. Like many other very good games it has it's downfalls. Ultimately one of the biggest being that it only has a tenancy to get better the more you play. Another being the trouble in working out the logistics of large groups.
The fact of the matter is that not everyone enjoys Oblivion, Half Life, Guitar Hero, or the monster that is WoW. (I've had plenty of people tell me how much they disliked WoW.) That doesn't mean that these aren't very good games. FFXI is still strong and will most likely be around for years. Whether a person will enjoy it really comes down to matters of personal taste and what they are looking for in an MMO. It's not much different than asking if a person enjoys Halo more than Unreal Tournament.