Sony downplays Lair critics

De Nile isn't just a River in Africa.

That joke doesn't work well in print.

You mean, you actually enjoyed waggling your SIXAXIS?

Of course I would have prefered analog controls that goes without saying.

Prescision control vs. waggle is no contest.

That said I was able to adapt and most of the time the controls were transparent enough that I could concentrate and enjoy the game.

I'm glad the game got bad reviews for its motion controls, I hate motion controls, but I guess i'm a hardcore gamer and I know how to use a joystick.

Hey Shag, can you confirm or deny my impression of the controls?

Having not played it myself, mind you.

It seems that the goal of the game is put you in control of the man controlling the dragon, not the dragon itself. Thus the dragon needs to acknowledge the commands of the rider, and it selects which targets to go after, etc.

This, I think, would explain why reviewers were disappointed with the controls: they were expecting to control the dragon directly.

I think everyone will agree that realism != the most fun gameplay.

I've heard the excuse that beacuse your a man on the dragon and not the dragon, but I still think the game would have controlled better without the inaccuracies inherant with motion controls.

The controls aren't my biggest problem with the game though. My biggest issue with the game is its presentation. Your constantly interrupted by narative cuts to remind you of all thats going on during the battle. Its cuts away (doesn't zoom so you get an idea of location) shows something vital blowing up/being attacked/destroyed, then drops you right back where you were, only now you need to reorient yourself beacuse the camera may have changed angles.

If its your first run through a level and your making mistakes this will happen up to a couple times a minute which is super annoying.

My next huge problem is that you really need to play through a campaign at least once before you beat it beacuse the defeat condidtions are not always obvious and the objectives which usually happen all at the same time are not clearly defined.

Once you've played through a senario and understand what causes defeat/triggers success its a breeze to manage your activities.

I think most of this could have been fixed fairly easily some with the way the cuts are done and others just by making the games audio only cue you to the most dire situation at the time rather than all of the defeat conditions going on.

babbling...

...

I'll take that as a "no" then.

I think thats an excuse for the inherantly flawed and sloppy motion controls to put it bluntly. It would have been a better game without it.

So Shagi, if I am to understand you correctly, you managed to enjoy Lair regardless of the horrible, horrible, horrible (and sometimes scathing) reviews because you cut through the bullshit and saw the game's true value.

And you have trouble doing this with Wii games because...?

"but I still think the game would have controlled better without the inaccuracies inherant with motion controls."

...of the SIXAXIS...

Thats easy, mega. He's a sony fanboy trying to justify the 60 dollars he spent to himself. He doesn't put nearly as much effort into Wii games because he hates Nintendo, and has an irrational fear of Nintendo destroying hardcore gaming as we know it.

Beacuse in every Wii game your fighting the motion controls. Lair has motion controls implemented as good as your gonna get with it.

The Wiimote uses the exact same tech and is exactly flawed in the same way. If you demand presicion motion controls are simply a slap in the face.

And I've yet to spell precsicion correctly.

Well, when one critic bashes a gane while others praise it, he would have a point. However, this game is trash. Sony destroyed this game by not letting the gamer have the option using SIXAXXIS.

I will wait to rent this game at Blockbuster because I refuse to pay 59.99. I have been waiting all summer for Lair and Heavely Sword. Now, I will only have one game to BUY for the PS3.

"Beacuse in every Wii game your fighting the motion controls. Lair has motion controls implemented as good as your gonna get with it."

Sounds like the problem people are having is that they ARE having to fight with the motion controls on Lair.

And how many Wii games have you played Shagi? Wii controls have been implemented well in quite a few games, ranging from games like Elebits, the Godfather, RE4, Scarface, SSX Blur and Metroid Prime 3.

I'm sure the developers could've made the motion controls in Lair better then they are, for sure. Lair fell in the same hole as Red Steel did for the Wii, good game, shitty controls.

Its as simple as this, everytime I press a button I get the result I want. Everytime I waggle theres the chance that I might not get the result I want.

Its true of all motion sensing joysticks. Casuals don't mind missing button presses if it makes the game more accessable to them. Nintendo tends to design their games around the inherant flaws in motion sensing so often you can get away with missing motions here and there.

In Lair however when you miss a motion activation it feels like your totally being punished. Its a hardcore game with casual controls and that might be why people hate it so much.

"...he hates Nintendo, and has an irrational fear of Nintendo destroying hardcore gaming as we know it."

How is that fear irrational?

Shagi, I understand why you own the PS3, but I'm having trouble grasping why someone like you actually bought the Wii in the first place. It's clear as day that you despise motion controls as they are now. You seem to be the kind of person who won't be satisfied until motion controls are 1:1, a really ludicrous hope if you ask me. Motion controls are yet another form of immersion. Asking for 1:1 controls are like asking for photo-perfect textures and 100% Newtonian physics: not gonna happen. Regardless of motion control precision, they are closer to 1:1 than a button press since pushing a button typically doesn't simulate an IN-GAME button press, more likely a sword swipe or something.

That said, you also seem to think that motion control implementation can't IMPROVE this current generation, as if the folks at Factor 5 and Retro Studios have hit the accelerometer ceiling and no one can EVER offer more fluid controls with the current setup.

So why DID you buy the Wii? Why DID you get Lair, knowing that you could only play using SIXAXIS tilt and knowing that it wasn't going to satisfy your lofty standards?

@megaStryke

I disagree completely with that last post. Why not expect 1:1? It's hardly a ludicrous desire. Sure, it won't work in every situation, but look at MP3. Many of the actions, especially aiming, are very close to 1:1. So how it ludicrous?

upz:

Because it's paranoid BS. Since when does everything have to be "either/or?"

"I think everyone will agree that realism != the most fun gameplay."

Is that sarcasm? I sure hope so because I rather strongly disagree!

Vidikron, i'm not sure what kind of mathematical background you have, or your knowledge of physics, but to get real 1:1 interpretations with just the wiimote is nigh impossible. The sensors in the wiimote sense acceleration, not position. They'd need the wiimote to start in a specific place relative the the TV (like directly centered, 6 ft, point directly at screen) to be able to use the accelerometers to extrapolate true position in 3D space. Additionally the sensors can't tell motion in the XY plane (parallel to earths surface), making any swinging motion in that plane un-sensable.

The wii can't do true 1:1. Its impossible if only because it can't sense the XY twisting.

Because you can never GET 1:1. Sure, you can APPROACH 1:1, but you'll never get there.

Anyway, it's clear that Shagi is wrong about the motion controls in Lair. He thinks that if they were removed then it would be a much, much better game. Of course, I'm reminded of a certain other flying game that was released on the PS3 lately that received decent criticism, especially for its controls. Oh, and before you say that Warhawk can be played with the analog sticks let me remind you that it is the MOTION controls that are well-received in the game yet it is a nice option to be able to use traditional means.

I meant "Remote play",sorry.

You have entered a FLAME WAR.

Obvious exits are NORTH, SOUTH, and DENNIS.

>Get the flask.

You can't get ye flask.

I remember an awesome game well panned by the reviewers out there on PS2 - GOD HAND.

I agree with what sony is saying, even with bad reviews, most people could really enjoy the game. I disagree with them when they say it will be liked because awareness was huge - that's just plain silly.

No way do reviewers represent a 'cross section of the public at large'. Find me more than a handful that aren't aged between 20 and 40 and aren't male. And I'll bet there's a whole heap of other quite narrow social categories into which all reviewers fall.

Time, methinks, for an academic investigation of the topic. (Though I'm not going to do it - anyone else out there want to?)

Well, a cross section of the gaming public at large.

"I remember an awesome game well panned by the reviewers out there on PS2 - GOD HAND. "

Damn right. Godhand is the best game ever! No debating it.

That game's the reason why I can't really bring myself to poke fun at or joke with people about liking "crappy" games anymore.

Although Godhand was mostly trashed for being way to difficult, which makes the reviewers a bunch of pussies...seriously – the game makes Ninja Gaiden seem like a walk in the park on a Sunday morning in spring.
Lair is being trashed mainly for having fundamental problems with the controls, which, personally at least, makes me think the complaints might be more legitimate.

No, but seriously – everybody should go out and pick up a copy of Godhand this weekend. You can get it for less than $20 bucks.

I'd agree with Sony on this one

Wii Sports is an ideal example, ranged from the high 50s to low 70s in reviews, and will probably be the single highest selling game this generation (it is a pack-in, so won't really be counted)

The Sony fan community certainly seems to like it

if it ends up being ass.... wouldn't the coke have been a better investment?

Why not invest in both some ass and some coke tonight? I know a guy...

So you deny that some games on the PS3 like Lair have waggle controls? The same waggle that Sony fans criticize in Nintendo games?

me no think so.

Shaggi likes to knock motion controls. He just said that he enjoyed a game (Lair) that relies on the SIXAXIS' motion controls.

I found that to be cute.

Ok,I thought you were going for the Ol' Wiinsturbation joke.

No MegaStryke,Read above.

Also I haven't seen a game that uses the Sixaxis like if it was the Wiimote

You haven't? Funny, because I could have sworn that games like Warhawk and Lair and Motorstorm were controlled in the same fashion that games like Excite Truck and Super Monkey Ball and Sonic are. Ya know, horizontally held, tilting to control direction of movement.

All you have to do is keep shooting the sea monster. I thought the sea monster was quite fun.

KOMODO!


...oh, wait. I'm not a part of the SDF, am I?

Poo.

No, I own it and am having a blast with it. Sorry.