Lair dev laments hideous Wii games, blames budget issues
by Ross Miller 
{ Sep 12th 2007 at 1:55PM }
Speaking to RevoGamers, Eggebrecht laments how Wii titles whose aesthetic is more geared toward "traditional, more photorealistic" visuals do not push the hardware. "There you really have to push it," he said, "and they're really not pushing it. Why not? Hmmm. I don't know, the hardware is very, very easy to understand."
As for the reasons, Eggebrecht speculates it's a mixture of developer's laziness and a publisher's unwillingness to provide a large enough budget, both related to the Wii's image. Factor 5 has previously shown the GameCube hardware more than capable of gorgeous visuals with the Rogue Squadron series, and Capcom has also shown off technical prowess with Resident Evil 4.
If more games show off the Wii's graphical capabilities and consumer expectations increase, perhaps developers and publishers might be more eager to step up their own visuals / budgets. Imagine the possibilities now that there's more memory (and duct tape!).
As for returning to work with Nintendo, Eggebrecht showed willingness but revealed no plans. "We're honestly at this point thinking about several titles in development and we haven't settled quite yet on which platform or which platforms if one of them is," he said. "So might be PS3, might be Wii... we're totally open to that."
[Via CVG]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Shagittarius @ Sep 12th 2007 2:00PM
Lair: Wii Version confirmed.
Jake @ Sep 12th 2007 2:03PM
ON confirmed.
Gamebreaker @ Sep 12th 2007 2:06PM
But they sell, so where's the motivation for companies to change?
People who buy crap can expect more crap.
Fernando Rocker (NDF - Water Ring) @ Sep 12th 2007 2:09PM
Its the fault of the lazy developers. Just look the work that Nintendo is doing with Mario Galaxy.
Mario Galaxy looks like a standard 360 game.
The reason why developers cant compete with Nintendo games its because they make shitty games.
Start making good games for the Wii and you may be on par with Nintendo games. That simple.
I mean... Atari says: "Oh, Im losing money, my games dont sell well"... Of course you are not going to sell well if you make a fucking shitty Godzilla game and then put the game against a very good game like Metroid or Resident Evil 4.
vinny @ Sep 12th 2007 2:17PM
"Mario Galaxy looks like a great gamecube game."
had to fix that one for ya
nonpareil @ Sep 12th 2007 2:21PM
"Mario Galaxy looks like a standard 360 game."
Are you fucking out of your mind?
pete @ Sep 12th 2007 2:22PM
"Mario Galaxy looks like a standard 360 game."
Are you fucking out of your mind?
borland502 @ Sep 12th 2007 2:24PM
"Mario Galaxy looks like a standard 360 game."
I find that hard to believe. I'll grant you that the Wii is a fun system, but a graphical powerhouse it is not. The DS is a fun system, but likewise, it cannot furnish the same power.
That is why Nintendo can sell their swag more cheaply than either MS or Sony.
borland502 @ Sep 12th 2007 2:27PM
"Are you fucking out of your mind?"
I'm not sure that Fernando has telekinetic sexual powers. Or are you asking if he has sexual relations outside of his imagination?
I'm confused.
Fernando Rocker (NDF - Water Ring) @ Sep 12th 2007 2:30PM
Im not saying that Mario Galaxy looks like Gears of War or something like that. What im saying is that this game have the quaility of a good 360 game.
Nintendo is putting a lot of effort on making a great looking.
Crono (NDF - Fire Ring) @ Sep 12th 2007 2:33PM
No, really. When you are pushing literally 1/4 the total pixels on screen at a time, the little horsepower wii has nearly (nearly now) equals the 360 at the same resolutions. Compare Mario Galaxy in SD to Viva Piniata in SD (similar color pallet). All the particles and eye candy is there, just at 852x480 instead of 1920x1080 or 1280x720 or 1368x768 or whatever your particular xbox runs at.
I've said this before, back before wii even launched: Oblivion looks beautiful at 1280x720. It also looks beautiful at 852x480. One of these is the 360, the other is the Wii. You can simulate 360 oblivion on your PC by running 1280x720 with 4x AA and all the settings set on high. You can then simulate Wii oblivion by setting the resolution to 640x480, no AA, and all the settings on medium. Still a beautiful game.
Jake @ Sep 12th 2007 2:38PM
Galaxy looks nice. But let's be serious. It does not look like a standard 360 game on a 480 set. No explanation of my statement because none should be needed.
tactics @ Sep 12th 2007 3:58PM
is nobody going to defend godzilla? i think it looks friggin awesome. the graphics are top notch, too. i kept up with developer interviews on this one, and apparently they spent so much time perfecting controls that they went through 6 different control schemes to get to the final one. i'm glad atari put all their weight behind developing a game for wii from the groud up, even if it *is* based off of a "take-it-or-leave-it" IP.
-"superfan" tactics.
borland502 @ Sep 12th 2007 2:44PM
Crono has a point, since I recently hooked up the PS3 version of Dirt to a friend's SDTV. The game still looked damn good. Though other games reverted to a PS2 like state of display.
However, there is a point beyond design where the choices Nintendo made have to be lived with. On an HDTV Wii games will not look as good no matter how engaging the gameplay. Good design can make the sacrifice of graphics less noticable (e.g. Dirt), but unless you have no visual acuity you are going to see a difference in quality.
This is not a slam against the Wii; they did make a choice and it doesn't seem to have harmed them.
Almack64 @ Sep 12th 2007 2:49PM
Crono's right,
The Wii is very capable of delivering some fairly visuals, they will not be HD but not every "HD" game is being played currently in HD either.
I think it is a combo of laziness, limited budgets, and still the fact that devs really didn't realize the wii would be so successful. It takes time to move resources and develop new games from scratch.
Just think about the avarage dev time for games these days, let alone some of the great AAA games that have come out. Sometimes it takes years for quality games. The popularity of the wii has not even been 1 year. Major devs have already shifted resources but it will be some time before we see the fruit of that labor.
Until then wii will have to live with games that have shorter dev cycles, ports, and games that were already in developement. That's just the reality of the situation.
pete @ Sep 12th 2007 3:36PM
Are you people out of your minds? The best looking game on the Wii is RE4, a GAMECUBE GAME. I own a Wii and a 360, and would own a PS3 too if the system had some good GAMES to play, so I am no fanboy. However, the Wii is straight garbage. For a long time, I really, like you, wanted it to be a system I loved. I bought the hype, paid $$ for the system, and plodded through Zelda (and blazed through RE4, which is one of the best games ever). Other than that? Paper Mario looked nice, but was a chore to play, and Metroid is interesting, but not my bag of tea. Graphically, they resemble normal (non-360) Xbox games; gameplay wise, nothing particularly amzing with the exception of RE4, which again, made perfect use of the Wii controller and system.
Face it, if the Wii had the graphical and processing prowess of the other systems, this would be a whole different ballgame. But it doesn't, so it isn't. Not because developers are lazy, but because you cannot squeeze juice out of a rock.
Crono (NDF - Fire Ring) @ Sep 12th 2007 3:55PM
pete, really, you're just wrong. See Strider's post a few messages down about Rogue Leader on gamecube.
The wii is an untapped powerhouse. Its not a monster badass like 360 or PS3, but its still got alot of power under the hood.
pete @ Sep 12th 2007 4:22PM
Crono, read Strider's post and I will grant you that the power is untapped, but here's the rub: assuming that developers *are* being lazy, you will still end up with lackluster-looking games more often than not. The 360 and PS3 (coding issues aside) offer few technical limits for designers/developers working on this-gen games. This creates an incentive for gamemakers to go to those consoles. When you have to squeeze out every bit of juice to get anywhere near that performance, you're already at a disadvantage. When a piece of tech has a lot of potential and few limits, it will consistently attract more designers and more who cater to its user base.
Even if it is a matter of "designer laziness," the result for us, as gamers, is the same: the Wii gets rink-a-dink games like "Cruzzzn" and "Pool Party," while Bioshock, Assassin's Creed, GTA, and so on, go to the other consoles.
Mr Khan @ Sep 12th 2007 4:24PM
I'd say he'd be correct if he said "you couldn't possibly get Mario to look any better"
Unless you changed Mario's artistic style, i don't think it would be possible to render that specific style any better,
Now, if you wanted to give Mario a more realistic overhaul (shudders at the thought)...
Fatass of Kickassness @ Sep 12th 2007 5:28PM
Those of you who don't believe Fernando in his claim that SMG looks like a standard 360 game, hit up a few websites like Gametrailers or IGN, check out some videos. You'll be surprised. I know I was, anyway. The game looks surprisingly good, as Fernando said, on par with a good amount of 360 titles (even though we all know the Wii dosn't have the tech to pump out visuals on par with, say, Gears, or even quite a few games that look worse than Gears - the game looks great through proper (and fantastic) utilization of bump mapping, rim lighting/shading, bloom, etc).
Pete.
Oh ho ho, Pete.
The Wii ain't 'straight up garbage.' Don't misconstrue me as a Ninty fanboy, as I do acknowledge the 360 as, really, one of the best systems to come out in a while (I mean, just look at the lineup of games its got going for it). However, I've played quite a few Wii games that have had me hooked, regardless of graphics. Excite Truck, Trauma Center, LOZ:TP, RE4, MP3:C, Super Paper Mario, G:BE, Mario Strikers: Charged, WarioWare Smooth Moves, RRR, SSX Blur, and so on. Still doesn't compare to the 360 lineup, but garbage that is not. Oh, I'll also have to disagree with you about the whole 'RE4 is the best looking game on the Wii' comment because that award goes to MP3:C and will soon be given to SMG.
Whilst the Wii does have its limits, there is potential to it too, and I'm seeing more developers switch from the shit-fest shovelware development tactics to actually concentrating on making a good game.
Shagittarius @ Sep 12th 2007 5:32PM
Now go run your 640X480 game of oblivion on your 42" 1080P TV and tell me it still looks good.
MP3 has great art direction but the hardware holds it back, play that on an HD screen of any quality and it becomes deadfully obvious that the machine doesn't have the power to do the post effects expected of a next gen machine.
Fatass of Kickassness @ Sep 12th 2007 5:47PM
And yet, I was still able to enjoy MP3 as much as I enjoyed Bioshock.
While I'm not going to pretend that the Wii can produce graphics on par with most PS3/360 efforts, I've been playing games for a pretty long time, and output resolution never really bothered me before. And while higher output resolutions are to be expected as technology evolves, are you honestly expecting to get higher output resolutions from a $250 system that caters to an audience not likely to even own an HDTV?
LaughingTarget @ Sep 12th 2007 6:22PM
Let's not forget that the 360 and PS3 are wasting a lot of its effort just displaying HD resolutions. If we take two games that have identical image quality, one on the Wii and another on the PS3 or 360, the PS3 and 360 variants are required to render 2.66 tims as many pixels. While those two systems *MAY* seem to severely outclass the Wii, we have to remember that a large chunk of that power is being siphoned off just to run at a higher resolution. A fairly decent rule of thumb in the PC world is about a 50% drop in framerates when the resolution is tripled, barring certain factors like game age (HL2 is old enough at this point where most resolutions run into the hard cap framerates) and bottlenecks. Benchmarks around the web will back this up.
Given that, the 360 and PS3 need to be twice as powerful just to EQUAL the Wii at 720p. When talking 1080p, the PS3 and 360 need to be four times as powerful just to EQUAL the Wii's image quality.
The Wii's capabilities are a lot closer to the PS3 and 360 than anyone gives it credit for, mainly because it isn't hampered with having to run at a higher resolution. It also enjoys a dedicated physics processor, meaning those calculations are offloaded from the CPU, adding more capabilites to it as well.
Remember, we haven't even come close to matching an over the air broadcast on an old 480i CRT set (try and tell me the PS3 can match the 480i SFX in an old movie like Terminator 2 without coming off as insane) let alone trying to pack that into a 720p or 1080p data stream. Going HD has done nothing more than held back the graphical power of the 360 and PS3. Just imagine how much more amazing they would be if they didn't have to dedicate extra processing power
Shagittarius @ Sep 12th 2007 7:16PM
Forgive me for thinking that higher resolution graphics were a good thing, I stand corrected.
Abscissa @ Sep 12th 2007 7:58PM
I've played Call of Duty 3 on both Wii and 360, and frankly, they really don't look much different.
Matt B (SDF - White Gold Ring) @ Sep 12th 2007 8:07PM
"..the wii has untapped power that developers aren't using....so much potential the developers don't use..... the wii is really a powerful system...."
Aren't we supposed to flame people for this crap?!? When anyone says this about the PS3, it's f'n scorched earth.
HB96st @ Sep 12th 2007 2:14PM
"Hello, Reggie... Reginator!! -It's me, Julian.. L-Look, before you say anything, I'm... Sorry.. I'm SORRY!!...
Can we come back in.......?
Ska Oreo @ Sep 12th 2007 2:54PM
nice.
Delta @ Sep 12th 2007 2:14PM
If they wanted to make some quick cash, they could probably put Turrican 2 up on XBox Live. Considering the sell through rate for 360 owners is through the roof, and we've been waiting for a game like T2 for ages now.
Give us some of that Chris Huelsbeck lovin'!
xXFenixKnight13Xx @ Sep 12th 2007 2:15PM
RE4 does look awesome on GC, I was playing it the other day wondering the same exact thing. If the Wii is more powerful than the GC im sure they can churn out some great looking stuff. I know that would make me more interested. Sorry im somewhat of a graphics whore lol Which is why even though Sony promises the more powerful stuff Xbox 360 really delivers it and I chose it.
Fernando Rocker (NDF - Water Ring) @ Sep 12th 2007 2:24PM
Exactly... I mean... the one thing I didt like about RE4 is the blurry textures. The Gamecube has 24 Mb of Memory... the Wii has 88 Mb, three times more memory for improved textures.
I hope we can get some good games from third party delelopers.
Im sure that Square Enix will make a good work with the Crystal Chronicles game. They are very professionals.
xXFenixKnight13Xx @ Sep 12th 2007 2:28PM
Yup and that Darn Mario Galaxy looks badass =( It would be the only Mario Ive never owned if I dont buy a Wii. Damn you Nintendoooooooooooooo!!!!!
Cahlito @ Sep 12th 2007 2:17PM
i totally agree with fernando on that.. i've never really like atari games for that reason..
On a side note Fernando, did your english improve?
Fernando Rocker (NDF - Water Ring) @ Sep 12th 2007 2:19PM
"...did your english improve?"
I was inspired =)
Rubang B (NDF - Heart) @ Sep 12th 2007 2:16PM
He's right... but he made Lair... do I agree or do I troll now?
hydralisk456 @ Sep 12th 2007 4:23PM
TROLLING ALWAYS WORKS (cruise control!!)
Savok @ Sep 12th 2007 2:17PM
Glad someone finally said it. The Wii is perfectly capable of great graphics if people bothered to try. Look at what the GC could do, some of those games still look great.
Crono (NDF - Fire Ring) @ Sep 12th 2007 2:20PM
People have BEEN saying it. Most notably the nintendo faithful, but we always got shouted down by the likes of Shaggi.
That was before this board lost all respect for his opinion.
Shagittarius @ Sep 12th 2007 2:31PM
That depends on what your definition of 'great' and 'respect' is.
Savok @ Sep 12th 2007 2:32PM
Yes but we're fans and therefore know nothing about the industry or technical stuff like why GC games look better then most Wii games.
hvnlysoldr (NDF - Wind Ring) @ Sep 12th 2007 3:04PM
That depends on your definition of "is."
Crono (NDF - Fire Ring) @ Sep 12th 2007 3:10PM
Thanks heavenly. I was totally thinking that, but didn't feel like typing it. Now that you have, I will go out of my way to type a post congratulating you on reading my mind and waste a ton more time than if I actually just typed what you said.
Boredboredboredboredbored.
Matt B @ Sep 12th 2007 3:59PM
With all do respect, Crono, your opinion isn't worth any more than anyone else's on the blogosphere. Don't go getting a big head just because YOU think shagi has no respect on these boards. You troll just as much, if not more.
Crono (NDF - Fire Ring) @ Sep 12th 2007 4:02PM
Dude, I just said on Joystiq. And i've never been accused of trolling, even when I have been.
I just troll shagi's comments. Its a rivalry. And when he actually says something intellegent, he doesn't get trolled.
Its just that happens so rarely nowadays.
Crono (NDF - Fire Ring) @ Sep 12th 2007 4:09PM
I'll go ahead and double post here to apologise for being an ass lately to shagi.
Its all in good fun. Don't mean to offend.
Afterall, its hard to have a flamewar all by myself.
Shagittarius @ Sep 12th 2007 5:18PM
It all cool crono, theres so many kooks on here no one takes anyone seriously anyways.
Rubang B (NDF - Heart) @ Sep 12th 2007 7:34PM
Ooh, hvnlysoldier got Wind, nice. Lettung us change our names is the best thing Joystiq's ever done.
Rubang B (NDF - Heart) @ Sep 12th 2007 7:40PM
Hahaha, Matt B said "blogosphere." What a nerd.
Matt B (SDF - White Gold Ring) @ Sep 12th 2007 7:48PM
I do what I can. :)
3cubed minus 3squared plus1 @ Sep 12th 2007 2:19PM
lol
No mention of 360?