Lair dev laments hideous Wii games, blames budget issues

"Mario Galaxy looks like a great gamecube game."

had to fix that one for ya

"Mario Galaxy looks like a standard 360 game."

Are you fucking out of your mind?

"Mario Galaxy looks like a standard 360 game."

Are you fucking out of your mind?

"Mario Galaxy looks like a standard 360 game."

I find that hard to believe. I'll grant you that the Wii is a fun system, but a graphical powerhouse it is not. The DS is a fun system, but likewise, it cannot furnish the same power.

That is why Nintendo can sell their swag more cheaply than either MS or Sony.

"Are you fucking out of your mind?"

I'm not sure that Fernando has telekinetic sexual powers. Or are you asking if he has sexual relations outside of his imagination?

I'm confused.

Im not saying that Mario Galaxy looks like Gears of War or something like that. What im saying is that this game have the quaility of a good 360 game.

Nintendo is putting a lot of effort on making a great looking.

No, really. When you are pushing literally 1/4 the total pixels on screen at a time, the little horsepower wii has nearly (nearly now) equals the 360 at the same resolutions. Compare Mario Galaxy in SD to Viva Piniata in SD (similar color pallet). All the particles and eye candy is there, just at 852x480 instead of 1920x1080 or 1280x720 or 1368x768 or whatever your particular xbox runs at.

I've said this before, back before wii even launched: Oblivion looks beautiful at 1280x720. It also looks beautiful at 852x480. One of these is the 360, the other is the Wii. You can simulate 360 oblivion on your PC by running 1280x720 with 4x AA and all the settings set on high. You can then simulate Wii oblivion by setting the resolution to 640x480, no AA, and all the settings on medium. Still a beautiful game.

Galaxy looks nice. But let's be serious. It does not look like a standard 360 game on a 480 set. No explanation of my statement because none should be needed.

is nobody going to defend godzilla? i think it looks friggin awesome. the graphics are top notch, too. i kept up with developer interviews on this one, and apparently they spent so much time perfecting controls that they went through 6 different control schemes to get to the final one. i'm glad atari put all their weight behind developing a game for wii from the groud up, even if it *is* based off of a "take-it-or-leave-it" IP.

-"superfan" tactics.

Crono has a point, since I recently hooked up the PS3 version of Dirt to a friend's SDTV. The game still looked damn good. Though other games reverted to a PS2 like state of display.

However, there is a point beyond design where the choices Nintendo made have to be lived with. On an HDTV Wii games will not look as good no matter how engaging the gameplay. Good design can make the sacrifice of graphics less noticable (e.g. Dirt), but unless you have no visual acuity you are going to see a difference in quality.

This is not a slam against the Wii; they did make a choice and it doesn't seem to have harmed them.

Crono's right,

The Wii is very capable of delivering some fairly visuals, they will not be HD but not every "HD" game is being played currently in HD either.

I think it is a combo of laziness, limited budgets, and still the fact that devs really didn't realize the wii would be so successful. It takes time to move resources and develop new games from scratch.

Just think about the avarage dev time for games these days, let alone some of the great AAA games that have come out. Sometimes it takes years for quality games. The popularity of the wii has not even been 1 year. Major devs have already shifted resources but it will be some time before we see the fruit of that labor.

Until then wii will have to live with games that have shorter dev cycles, ports, and games that were already in developement. That's just the reality of the situation.

Are you people out of your minds? The best looking game on the Wii is RE4, a GAMECUBE GAME. I own a Wii and a 360, and would own a PS3 too if the system had some good GAMES to play, so I am no fanboy. However, the Wii is straight garbage. For a long time, I really, like you, wanted it to be a system I loved. I bought the hype, paid $$ for the system, and plodded through Zelda (and blazed through RE4, which is one of the best games ever). Other than that? Paper Mario looked nice, but was a chore to play, and Metroid is interesting, but not my bag of tea. Graphically, they resemble normal (non-360) Xbox games; gameplay wise, nothing particularly amzing with the exception of RE4, which again, made perfect use of the Wii controller and system.

Face it, if the Wii had the graphical and processing prowess of the other systems, this would be a whole different ballgame. But it doesn't, so it isn't. Not because developers are lazy, but because you cannot squeeze juice out of a rock.

pete, really, you're just wrong. See Strider's post a few messages down about Rogue Leader on gamecube.

The wii is an untapped powerhouse. Its not a monster badass like 360 or PS3, but its still got alot of power under the hood.

Crono, read Strider's post and I will grant you that the power is untapped, but here's the rub: assuming that developers *are* being lazy, you will still end up with lackluster-looking games more often than not. The 360 and PS3 (coding issues aside) offer few technical limits for designers/developers working on this-gen games. This creates an incentive for gamemakers to go to those consoles. When you have to squeeze out every bit of juice to get anywhere near that performance, you're already at a disadvantage. When a piece of tech has a lot of potential and few limits, it will consistently attract more designers and more who cater to its user base.

Even if it is a matter of "designer laziness," the result for us, as gamers, is the same: the Wii gets rink-a-dink games like "Cruzzzn" and "Pool Party," while Bioshock, Assassin's Creed, GTA, and so on, go to the other consoles.

I'd say he'd be correct if he said "you couldn't possibly get Mario to look any better"

Unless you changed Mario's artistic style, i don't think it would be possible to render that specific style any better,

Now, if you wanted to give Mario a more realistic overhaul (shudders at the thought)...

Those of you who don't believe Fernando in his claim that SMG looks like a standard 360 game, hit up a few websites like Gametrailers or IGN, check out some videos. You'll be surprised. I know I was, anyway. The game looks surprisingly good, as Fernando said, on par with a good amount of 360 titles (even though we all know the Wii dosn't have the tech to pump out visuals on par with, say, Gears, or even quite a few games that look worse than Gears - the game looks great through proper (and fantastic) utilization of bump mapping, rim lighting/shading, bloom, etc).

Pete.

Oh ho ho, Pete.

The Wii ain't 'straight up garbage.' Don't misconstrue me as a Ninty fanboy, as I do acknowledge the 360 as, really, one of the best systems to come out in a while (I mean, just look at the lineup of games its got going for it). However, I've played quite a few Wii games that have had me hooked, regardless of graphics. Excite Truck, Trauma Center, LOZ:TP, RE4, MP3:C, Super Paper Mario, G:BE, Mario Strikers: Charged, WarioWare Smooth Moves, RRR, SSX Blur, and so on. Still doesn't compare to the 360 lineup, but garbage that is not. Oh, I'll also have to disagree with you about the whole 'RE4 is the best looking game on the Wii' comment because that award goes to MP3:C and will soon be given to SMG.

Whilst the Wii does have its limits, there is potential to it too, and I'm seeing more developers switch from the shit-fest shovelware development tactics to actually concentrating on making a good game.

Now go run your 640X480 game of oblivion on your 42" 1080P TV and tell me it still looks good.

MP3 has great art direction but the hardware holds it back, play that on an HD screen of any quality and it becomes deadfully obvious that the machine doesn't have the power to do the post effects expected of a next gen machine.

And yet, I was still able to enjoy MP3 as much as I enjoyed Bioshock.

While I'm not going to pretend that the Wii can produce graphics on par with most PS3/360 efforts, I've been playing games for a pretty long time, and output resolution never really bothered me before. And while higher output resolutions are to be expected as technology evolves, are you honestly expecting to get higher output resolutions from a $250 system that caters to an audience not likely to even own an HDTV?

Let's not forget that the 360 and PS3 are wasting a lot of its effort just displaying HD resolutions. If we take two games that have identical image quality, one on the Wii and another on the PS3 or 360, the PS3 and 360 variants are required to render 2.66 tims as many pixels. While those two systems *MAY* seem to severely outclass the Wii, we have to remember that a large chunk of that power is being siphoned off just to run at a higher resolution. A fairly decent rule of thumb in the PC world is about a 50% drop in framerates when the resolution is tripled, barring certain factors like game age (HL2 is old enough at this point where most resolutions run into the hard cap framerates) and bottlenecks. Benchmarks around the web will back this up.

Given that, the 360 and PS3 need to be twice as powerful just to EQUAL the Wii at 720p. When talking 1080p, the PS3 and 360 need to be four times as powerful just to EQUAL the Wii's image quality.

The Wii's capabilities are a lot closer to the PS3 and 360 than anyone gives it credit for, mainly because it isn't hampered with having to run at a higher resolution. It also enjoys a dedicated physics processor, meaning those calculations are offloaded from the CPU, adding more capabilites to it as well.

Remember, we haven't even come close to matching an over the air broadcast on an old 480i CRT set (try and tell me the PS3 can match the 480i SFX in an old movie like Terminator 2 without coming off as insane) let alone trying to pack that into a 720p or 1080p data stream. Going HD has done nothing more than held back the graphical power of the 360 and PS3. Just imagine how much more amazing they would be if they didn't have to dedicate extra processing power

Forgive me for thinking that higher resolution graphics were a good thing, I stand corrected.

I've played Call of Duty 3 on both Wii and 360, and frankly, they really don't look much different.

"..the wii has untapped power that developers aren't using....so much potential the developers don't use..... the wii is really a powerful system...."

Aren't we supposed to flame people for this crap?!? When anyone says this about the PS3, it's f'n scorched earth.

nice.

Exactly... I mean... the one thing I didt like about RE4 is the blurry textures. The Gamecube has 24 Mb of Memory... the Wii has 88 Mb, three times more memory for improved textures.

I hope we can get some good games from third party delelopers.

Im sure that Square Enix will make a good work with the Crystal Chronicles game. They are very professionals.

Yup and that Darn Mario Galaxy looks badass =( It would be the only Mario Ive never owned if I dont buy a Wii. Damn you Nintendoooooooooooooo!!!!!

"...did your english improve?"

I was inspired =)

TROLLING ALWAYS WORKS (cruise control!!)

People have BEEN saying it. Most notably the nintendo faithful, but we always got shouted down by the likes of Shaggi.

That was before this board lost all respect for his opinion.

That depends on what your definition of 'great' and 'respect' is.

Yes but we're fans and therefore know nothing about the industry or technical stuff like why GC games look better then most Wii games.

That depends on your definition of "is."

Thanks heavenly. I was totally thinking that, but didn't feel like typing it. Now that you have, I will go out of my way to type a post congratulating you on reading my mind and waste a ton more time than if I actually just typed what you said.

Boredboredboredboredbored.

With all do respect, Crono, your opinion isn't worth any more than anyone else's on the blogosphere. Don't go getting a big head just because YOU think shagi has no respect on these boards. You troll just as much, if not more.

Dude, I just said on Joystiq. And i've never been accused of trolling, even when I have been.

I just troll shagi's comments. Its a rivalry. And when he actually says something intellegent, he doesn't get trolled.

Its just that happens so rarely nowadays.

I'll go ahead and double post here to apologise for being an ass lately to shagi.

Its all in good fun. Don't mean to offend.

Afterall, its hard to have a flamewar all by myself.

It all cool crono, theres so many kooks on here no one takes anyone seriously anyways.

Ooh, hvnlysoldier got Wind, nice. Lettung us change our names is the best thing Joystiq's ever done.

Hahaha, Matt B said "blogosphere." What a nerd.

I do what I can. :)