X3F Achievements 101: On the Road

by David Dreger on Sep 17th 2007 3:00PM

This latest edition of X3F Achievements 101 is up for your perusal, and touches on the joys of traveling when having an Achievement streak to maintain, while at the same time exploring potential options to make it more viable, namely Live for Windows on Vista. I also talk about finishing up Shadowrun, commenter responses on "boosting", and my time with BioShock, as well as what quickies I've got lined up prior to the launch of Halo 3. All of this and more can be found after the break.

I finally got my last Achievement in Shadowrun, playing my hundredth game as a Human. Now I just roll the Ninja Troll, as that's the most entertaining build to mess around with. I had a lot of fun with the game and played the hell out of it, but at the same time I'm glad I finished it before the launch of Halo 3 and the other slew of games coming ou this holiday. I say this not because I don't enjoy playing, I just expect a vast group of people currently playing to move on to bigger and better things this fall.

Another thing that came up after the last installment, just prior to heading to PAX and X07, was the methods in which I attained Godlike, Healer and a couple other stragglers in the Shadowrun. The was a slight backlash in comments about my "boosting" for these Achievements, saying that it illegitimized my Gamerscore in the eyes of some readers. I stated on the second edition of Achievements 101 that my stance was that if your thumbs do the work, that's legitimate. Anything that deviates from that, be it gamesaving, or having a friend get the Achievement for you, that crosses the line into illegitimacy. Either way, as it stands I don't feel that I've broken any rules in unlocking any of my Achievements, but I appreciate your opinions on what you consider legitimate or otherwise.

When traveling to PAX07, we stayed at the Sheraton Hotel right across the street from it. I have a preference towards Sheraton Hotels when traveling with my 360 because they almost always have a complimentary Business Center that I can hijack the connection to because it doesn't have a firewall and the connections to the monitor aren't locked so I can use the VGA adapter with that and I'm good to go. For Saturday and Sunday I used Prince of Persia Classic and Bomberman Live as quick fixes so I could enjoy the event without being concerned about the streak in the back of my mind.

When flying to Toronto, my luggage got lost along the way (thanks, Air Canada), but I always have my laptop and Xbox 360 as carry on. The hotel was a Holiday Inn, and they supplied complimentary broadband for the room, though I had to call the ISP to allow the 360 to connect. For the 28th and 29th, I got a couple achievements in Hexic 2's Battle mode to cover myself whilst traveling, so all was well in that regard.

One thing that crossed my mind as I travel more and more is Vista, and Achievements on its games. Since they show up on my Gamercard, should they count towards my streak? I mean, if I played Shadowrun on Vista, and got Achievements my Superior Platform on that, it would be far simpler, and since the game ID is identical, there is no way of telling one way or another. The benefit of course would be that if I picked up a new MacBook Pro after an upcoming hardware revision that should happen at the beginning of 2008, I could just run Vista and Halo 2 (PC), and get simple Achievements on that whenever I'm on the go. The upside to that is that the connectivity to the internet would be far easier to pull off whenever I'm traveling. Let me know what you think.

Upon my return to Vancouver, I picked up BioShock, which over this past weekend I really pushed through. My first playthrough is on medium difficulty, and I've saved all the little sisters and currently tying up some loose ends before facing the final boss. I need to backtrack a bit and pick up the Irony Achievement, as well as Found Cohen's Room. Any stragglers will be unlocked on my second playthrough on hard difficulty. Hopefully I'll wrap that up either in the next couple days or shortly after Halo 3 lands.

In terms of quick and easy 1000s I've got my eyes on, I'm gonna blast through Fuzion Frenzy 2 and NBA Street Homecourt, as I currently have those in my possession. That'll help me reach 50,000 Gamerscore pretty quickly, which I'll try to hit on the nose as one of my Gamerscore Milestones. I recently got 47,500, which while not as big a deal as 45,000 or 50,000 is a nice round number.

Well, that's it for this week's edition of Achievements 101. You're welcome to contact me through the means listed below, I've added my 360voice profile to the listing, which I've enabled comments for as well. I'm aware that since it gathers its data from the "Last Played" time stamp on games that it's not 100% accurate, it still gets the majority of the information correct , so you're welcome to follow me on that. Feel free to send me an email or leave a comment on your thoughts on Vista Achievements or anything else you've read in this column.

Email: david [at] xbox360fanboy [dot] com | Subject: Achievements
MSN: knuckles_dawson@hotmail.com | AIM: Knuckles Dawson
Xbox.com Profile | XBL Message | MGC Profile | 360voice Profile

Tags: Achievements, Achievements101

Reader Comments (37)

XBOX 360 RULES

I think readers would be ok counting Vista achievements but boosting is pretty lame any way you slice it...

just my opinion!

I think boosting for achievements is legit. As Knuckles says, as long as your thumbs, or any part of your body actually does the work to get the achievement, it is legit in my eyes.

Also, I think that getting achievements on Vista would on one hand, also be legit but on the other, would not be legit. For the legit argument: You are on Microsoft's Live service getting achievements with the same gamertag that you get them on your 360 with. Not legit argument: If you go for achievements on Windows Live gaming, than you have effectively killed your Xbox Live achievement streak. In my eyes, even though it'll be a little harder, you shouldn't go with getting achievements on Windows Live.

Whatever you do decide, it is legit.

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makes me sad thinking shadowrun is gonna die down once halo3 comes out... didnt get all my achievements yet =/

boosting is "legit" ? hardly. the exact opposite, in fact.

when you boost you really detract from the whole point of achievements - it really trivializes the whole system.

i'm not gunna lie, i was pretty disappointed when i read last week's ach 101.

fact is , knuckles could have gotten most of those achievements (except godlike) without boosting if he played the game legitimately, but most of the time he just ends up goofing around, team-killing, or arguing with the rest of the team.

I was going to get on my high-horse and talk about how "your thumbs doing the work" doesn't always mean it's not cheating... but I see Xenocidic made my point already:

"boosting is "legit" ? hardly. the exact opposite, in fact.

when you boost you really detract from the whole point of achievements - it really trivializes the whole system."

I still love the blog, but your boosting is really lame Knuckles... no matter how you try to justify it.

does boosting illegitimized a gamerscore? who cares! unless you're in a real contest with real rankings/prizes, the gamerscore is just a fun way to add new elements to a game.

Personally, I agree with Knuckles philosophy on achievements. If your thumbs are doing the work on your controller, it's legit. Let's face it, how many online games do we all go into with friends, and while it's to have fun, first and foremost, it's also to help with our achievements.

I also don't see the problem with getting achievements on Vista, it's still the MS Live service, but can see Dj's point that they won't be attained while on the God Box 360. :-)

Anyways, that's my 2.489523 cents

Keep it up man, your doing well.

LOL God Box 360.

My issue with boosting is when the other party might not know what you are up to. I picked up Shadowrun for $30 with the TRU Madden deal. I was really enjoying it until I noticed I kept getting sent into games where my team was trying to gain achievements. Round after round they would try to bleed out their own team so they could heal them or rez them.

It turned me off of the game...big time. Haven't went back and played since those three evenings. Plan on trading it in. You take away from the fun when a couple of people are off in a corner doing their thing just for achievements. But it isn't like you are the only cat doing that in that game.

As for Vista, it's all up to Microsoft and if they toss Vista and 360 game points in the same sandbox than it should be allowed and legit.

While I respect xenocidic and burnsie's opinions on the matter, I still have to disagree, at least based on my personal experience in the 360 community. I can see where Xeno is coming from, especially after reading his Achievement guide on Shadowrun on the Xbox.com forums, where he repeatedly made his anti boosting opinions known.

Here's my perspective, which may be unique to my experience, or whatever: The first major Xbox 360 community that I was a part of was xbox360achievements.com (which later migrated to .org). That site promotes sessions of Achievement trading as a community, while at the same time shuns those who gamesave or other extreme acts of cheating.

Now, between playing the game straight up, or game saving, there are a bunch of shades of gray found in between.

Is simming in EA Sports games to get Achievements cheating, or turning the AI down to be drooling buffoons on the court/rink/field?

Is using in game codes to make the experience easier cheating (Tony Hawk AW or Blazing Angels 1)?

Is bringing friends into ranked games on Gears of War to stack a team against random players cheating?

There are a lot thresholds where one can draw a line in the sand of cheating and not cheating. The most definitive one that I see is when someone gamesaves or gets another person to do it for them in account trading.

That, and I was "brought up" in a community that a) prides itself in housing legitimate users and b) condones its users to play together to get Achievements.

As for nerrrrrrd's question of who cares. The reason why I care is because I'm currently setting/holding a world record, and I want a universal understanding on what is legitimate and what's not.

Regarding getting the majority of them legitimately, if the unlocking of Achievements was real-time, as opposed to the end of the game, I would have them. I know for a fact that I was robbed of triple nade kill and Master Thief based on the game dropping.

@neon , in knuckles' defense, i believe that he performed this boosting in a private match.

(Shadowrun grants achievments in private matches as long as there's 4 actual gamertags per team).

so everyone in the game was on the same page.

Before I purchased my 360 I was over at my friends place playing Geometry Wars on his Gamertag. I unlocked two achievements he hadn't already done and he was a bit upset.

To make it up to him when I did get my system I let him come over to my place and get those same two achievements on my Gamertag.

I think my main issues with boosting, especially in Shadowrun and games like it, is if it's done in a public match it can really reduce the overall enjoyment for people playing the game legitimately. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people blow up half of their team members with the rocket launcher because they refuse to switch to a different gun because they "need ther cheevo."

If the gamerscore boosting was, in fact, done in a private match that does kind of change things from my perspective, because it's more of a "gentleman's(or gentlewomen's) agreement" among people you know. As long as you're not ruining somebody else's good time, it's less of a problem (though it still seems a little cheap).

That said, I see your points as valid as well Knuckles, even though I disagree with a couple of them. Thanks for keeping the conversation going, and taking the time to articulate your point-of-view. Keep up the good work.

At this point, we'll just have to agree to disagree - I won't bring up the issue in the future. Thanks for elucidating.

I am against boosting to detract from someone else's game enjoyment. It was annoying to go into a gears game and see someone only using the hammer of dawn, (while nade tags and pistol kills for example, were less apparent or infuriating).

You also have to consider that I've "been here" from the beginning, so my opinion of what's fair game may differ. Look at the Launch titles and their Achievements, most of them are a mess (cause most are sports titles). Coming from that line up, to getting Achievements every day since launch, I and other Achievement whores were leading the way in what was considered legitimate or otherwise.

Specifically with Shadowrun, there were many occasions where I turned down boosting matches because I wanted to play the game for what it is. I've gotten 100 legitimate kills with all the weapons (I stuck with sniping well after the Achievement unlocked, as it was very fun).

Basically, the last thing I would want is for people to associate myself and my streak with Barry Bonds and his record. There is a significant difference there and I find comparisons made to be both inaccurate and insulting.

"Basically, the last thing I would want is for people to associate myself and my streak with Barry Bonds and his record. There is a significant difference there and I find comparisons made to be both inaccurate and insulting."

My suggestion if you want to avoid these types of comparisons in the future would be to err on the side of legitimacy and avoid boosting matches in the future.

While you can perhaps justify it to yourself, others are definitely going to hold you to a higher standard as you are the world-record holder for achievement streaks.

I guess gaming is whatever you want to make it. You go ahead and boost up that gamerscore. In the end, it doesn't matter to anyone but you and those like you. Of course if you game because you like gaming for the fun of gaming, a gamerscore won't matter a bit. IMHO

to be honest, when i read the column, i was kinda shocked that you admitted to boosting.

never has one man done something so unimportant or insignifcant! my score this my score that write an article about the achievements not about yourself. You have your own site for that. I would rather hear news on achievements for upcomming games, or devs thoughts on em.

I've had my 360 for a year now and still haven't figured out what Achievements are for. How do they relate to "Gamerscore" and what purpose does the Gamerscore serve?

Are Achievments simply for bragging rights or does this effect anything else?

-after reading this I sound a bit condescending, but its really not my intention. I would really like to know.

Thanks!

Oh, and what is meant by "gamesaving"?

"Anything that deviates from that, be it gamesaving, or having a friend get the Achievement for you, that crosses the line into illegitimacy."

There is no point. Your gamerscore is a tool to get you to play shitty games and waste money and time. There will always be people who have an addictive personality and get caught up in a score war. (I bought a 360 and then my friend picked one up. A few weeks into owning it he started asking what my score was and was constantly trying to beat mine, but I realized im not enjoying games anymore, that its all about stupid points and I wont do it anymore.) What a great marketing Idea with these stupid points fun until it becomes work. Dont waste your time with em if you like games.

First off, in my opinion the 360 and Vista achievements are the same, its 1 service on 2 different systems, and def should count for the streak. The streak is 1 achievement a day, and since its an achievement, it counts.

As for the boosting, etc. So long as you don't hack, cheat [illegally],or modify your 360, its fair game.

BTW, I am somewhat impressed that you are able to get achievements on the road. I could never lug my 360 across the US just to get that achievement for the streak. Impressive indeed.

Game saving is when you copy the points from someones file to yours using your pc. All you do is download no play at all. Yeah boosting is cheating and so is account swapping and glitching. But this is not a sport or something that has set rules. So you just regulate yourself i guess.

BTW Boosting is not cheating. I see no difference in playing with 3-4 people that you know to accomplish a goal, then playing with 3-4 random people to accomplish the same goal. Are you playing fairly? Yes. Can anyone do it? Yes. Is it cheating? I don't see how someone can claim this to be cheating.

Actually, i think the achievements helped me in enjoying more of my games.

It all comes down to the player. With boosting everyone can do it and takes absolutely no skill. If you feel good with earning achievements that way than do it. Myself personally would feel cheap if I had boosted for the godlike achievement(Which I don't have). I'd feel very satisfied getting that achievement in a legit competitive game versus playing in a game where the other team sits in the spawn and lets you kill them.

The record is still impressive though because of your dedication.

Homecourt is actually pretty fun.

"Basically, the last thing I would want is for people to associate myself and my streak with Barry Bonds and his record. There is a significant difference there and I find comparisons made to be both inaccurate and insulting."

I wasn't trying to be insulting when I made the comparison on your previous Achievements 101 column, I was merely trying to raise a point.

You are known in the xbox community for a variety of things, but a large part of your notoriety comes from your achievement streak. And, while I would never aspire to attain an achievement record like yours, I can at least appreciate that it is a significant thing to accomplish. However, after learning that you've not only condoned "boosting", but also practiced it yourself in order to attain some of your achievements... I personally viewed your entry into the Xbox 360 record books as slightly tarnished.

Unfortunately, as Xenocidic pointed out, the only way to avoid people reacting to you in this way is to avoid using techniques that many consider "shady." In that regard, I view my comparison between you and Mr. Bonds as incredibly appropriate. You both "bent the rules" in order to artificially inflate your scores, and in doing so, opened your records up to public doubt.

While “boosting” may not be illegal, I certainly view it as “un-sportsmanlike conduct”, and even if you disagree with this assessment, I seriously doubt you could honestly convince anyone that taking pot-shots at your buddy playing "target dummy" was what the developers had in mind when they made the sniper rifle and “god-like” achievements.

I'll say it again, love the site and the podcast, and this in no way makes me think less of you Knuckles, I'm just attempting to articulate why I was personally really disappointed to hear someone who is a voice in the Xbox community use tactics which I personally find questionable.

#1 Vista for Achiev
- Depends, are you going for a "Live" achievement streak or a "Xbox (live) 360 achievement" streak? My thought as some games you have played might not even have an online portion (unless it is a req to at least connect) the xbox 360 part is most important. Err on the side of caution if able and keep on doing what you are.

#2 Boosting
As mentioned by those respected and known in the community, (+1 xeno for the SR guide) while not explicitly legal boosting is frowned on by many (50-75%?) in the gaming community thus there may always be a debate on your record. To be fair might not be possible without boosting at least once, and is still impressive. Better that you use private games to not hinder pub matches (why are there team induced bleedouts anyway?), but my opinion is if something is too hard to achieve during normal/fair gameplay then it is a problem with the developers choice. It is the reason that for me 950 is my SR goal and I'll likely never get more than 300-400gs in either DOA4 or Table Tennis.

For example I am in the 200+ games range and basically played Human first and was working on Troll. Always got the tree sometime during matches as human and 1st round for troll. It was not until 2-3 games from my troll player achievement that I had a game where almost all ran out of pistol ammo and my tree's came in handy :D Healer is a tough one but the situation did crop up. Bad luck with your disconnects but everyone experiences this. Seems to be taking the easy way out by assuming you "should" have got it and then boost to get. Now if the unlocked graphic popped up but then never showed up on your gamercard that might be another story...

Either way Kuckles/David you are what you are, do what you do and at least you are not coy about any of it.

I think the question is...did you boost to keep your streak alive or did you boost to get just another achievement that day.

@itsburnsie - Perfect comment.

Boosting isn't exactly like taking performance enhancing drugs to achieve inhuman feats of athleticism or skill. If anything it's more like scoring points in a one on one match of basketball against a paraplegic. Yes, you can run the score up all day...but who cares?

The thing about it is that it has little to do with your achievement streak. No matter anyone's opinion on boosting it doesn't change that you've dinged an achievement every day for a zillion days in a row.

You have been following your own rules as to "what counts for this streak" and "what doesn't". What you really need(ed) to do is set down YOUR rules for YOUR streak. As long as you color between those lines, your streak is legitimate.

Example, Barry Bonds. He's cracked off more homeruns than anyone in MLB while using performance enhancing drugs. The sticky wicket is that it happens to also be the record for the most homeruns in MLB, regardless of drug use. There is a second guy with the record for most homeruns ever without the use of performance enhancing drugs.

Regardless of your definition of a legitimate achievement, it's tacky to cite your credentials alone as evidence and defense against criticism. You can tap into that experience in a conversation like this....but association alone is not valid, and being smug about it is worse.

Again, just spell out your criteria for what it is you're doing and do it. Critics be damned. You're not forcing anyone to care.

Once you get to the Proving Grounds in Bioshock, you can change the difficulty level right there to hard and get the "Seriously Good at This" achievement with not very much difficulty.

X3F Achievements 101: On the Road

Reader Comments (37)

Posted: Sep 17th 2007 3:10PM (Unverified) said

Posted: Sep 17th 2007 3:13PM xenocidic said

Posted: Sep 17th 2007 3:14PM DjDATZ said

Posted: Sep 17th 2007 3:16PM (Unverified) said

Posted: Sep 17th 2007 3:24PM (Unverified) said

Posted: Sep 17th 2007 3:26PM xenocidic said

Posted: Sep 17th 2007 3:36PM itsburnsie said

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Posted: Sep 17th 2007 3:43PM DjDATZ said

Posted: Sep 17th 2007 3:47PM Neon Jebus said

Posted: Sep 17th 2007 4:09PM (Unverified) said

Posted: Sep 17th 2007 4:10PM xenocidic said

Posted: Sep 17th 2007 4:18PM Neon Jebus said

Posted: Sep 17th 2007 4:27PM itsburnsie said

Posted: Sep 17th 2007 4:31PM xenocidic said

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Posted: Sep 17th 2007 4:48PM xenocidic said

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Posted: Sep 17th 2007 5:18PM The Wicker Man said

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Posted: Sep 17th 2007 5:30PM The Wicker Man said

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Posted: Sep 17th 2007 5:33PM The Wicker Man said

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Posted: Sep 17th 2007 5:53PM urbantek said

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Posted: Sep 17th 2007 10:39PM Gemini Ace said

Posted: Sep 17th 2007 11:35PM itsburnsie said

Posted: Sep 18th 2007 2:16AM (Unverified) said

Posted: Sep 18th 2007 10:07AM DjDATZ said

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