TGS07: Lost Odyssey is crazy big: 4 DVDs, 50 hours

I see the story, first thing that comes to mind is "now the BluRay people are going to have a bonanza"

I didn't realize how fast that would hit

It will be terrible game - like Final Fantasy 7 or 8 or 9 was.
Simply unplayable. Changing CD/DVD is so hard.

And changing disc every 12 HOURS!
What a pain.

It will be like Blue Dragon - 6 hours of game + 4 hours of FMV per DVD.
And then you had to get up and change disc - *inconceivable*!

X360 is finished! Finished I say!

5 disc changer Xbox 360 this Christmas ... confirmed.

Now I guess my question is how much of this is cutscene and movie content and how much is universale data or gameworld. Difference says you? Well, let's put it this way.

Universal assets appear on each disc. These are usually set to a given world or possibly the entire game. If the game is huge, ala Mass Effect, all this content would either need to be included on each disc or the game world itself would be broken up. This is where the bad part came in because plenty of PSX multidisc games fell victim to this. Let's say you backtrack but the content you're traveling to is NOT on the disc you have. You will then have to swap out discs to access previous content.

However, if this content is on every disc, that limits the amount of space for the cutscenes and voice and blah da fucking blah. Because whatever is spare on each disc could only be used with this amount of content so if each disc contains 6GB of universal data, that leaves a mere 3GB for the additional content. This issue could be balanced by reducing the amount of universal game content to shrink the disc. Given the cheap costs of DVDs nowadays, it's fairly easy to see why many developers chose to add discs rather than renegotiate game content on each disc.

You guys seem to be forgetting any open "word-esque" that the game might have....

Ex: Every time you want to go and expore this area or this place, you switch a disk, unless this game is hella linear.

Whoops typo

**World-esque

***Explore

DaMN

Umm, no I didn't. See "Universal Game Data" vs. "Disc Exclusive Content" rant right above your head.

As long as the game costs the same, who the fuck cares really? I don't remember anyone complaining about switching discs in the PS1 days

When a PlayStation game spans multiple discs, it's epic. When an Xbox game spans multiple discs, it's tedious. That's the fanboy mantra, anyway.

Something tells me it's mostly cutscenes.

HOLY SHI* I agree with Mr.P The end of the world must be near,lol

I didn't mind switching discs back then, and I don't mind it now (Had to do it for Resident Evil and Twin Snakes on GameCube, lawl).

Can't wait for prices of HD-DVD/Blu-ray to be negligible like DVDs are, though.

The problem isn't the act of getting up and switching discs. It has more to do with the fact that it's an obscene amount of data. Back in the NES days, game design and development were extremely economical processes. You only had so much space, and you had to make sacrifices in order to get in under that number. That's why a lot of NES-era games are considered masterpieces. They used the space given in extremely creative ways in order to deliver something truly incredible. Super Mario Bros. is a classic example.

Ever since CDs, developers have had more space than they know what to do with. The result? Sloppier code. No need to be economical. And when a bulky game fills a disc, do they reconsider their process and scale back? Nope. They just add another disc to the pile. Hence my biting tone in the article above.

As for the voice acting, I haven't heard the American voices. I'm just going by the norm, though I'm always happy to be wrong (Bioshock's voice acting blew me away).

So you rather them cut content then to switch discs? wtf logic is that?

As long as the game works correctly and its fun, do you really think It matters how efficient the code is in taking up media space? I'm also pretty sure it wouldn't matter how much coding magic you use, you ain't getting 36GB of data down to 9.

Also if its like any old square RPG the only reason it takes up more then 1 disc is movies and audio, all the areas are probably accessible on one disc.

But I guess it's easy to complain if you don't know what you are talking about

I think you misread what Scott meant. He didn't say they should cut content out of the game to make it fit on less discs, rather be more efficient about the compression/coding/storage/etc. of the game so that it takes up less space (and thus less of of need to use that many discs) with the same amount of content as before.

Theres only a certain amount of compression you can do before it starts to make things look bad.

Fact of the matter is, you don't know exactly what is on those disks, so Scott saying they are being lazy with compression is in it self stupid.

I'm sure Sakaguchi and the people within his company Know more about what they are doing then Scott does. That is unless Scott has also made a Multi-million dollar game franchise and hasn't told anyone

Well, I'm not a multi-million dollar game developer, so I'll admit that it's more complicated than I'm making it out to be. But when I talk about bloating, I don't just mean data bloating; I mean bloating of game length as well.

We tend to discuss RPGs and critique based on the number of hours needed to complete them. Because length often gets mistaken for quality, developers throw in side-quests, collectathons, and lengthy back-tracking sequences to stretch the length of a game. The result are these 50-to-70-hour game experiences that a lot of you refer to as "epic." Problem is, a lot of that gameplay is used to stretch the game out. What could be a fun, shorter game becomes much longer, but much more tedious as well. I have no problem with long games, just with games that artificially extend their length with crap that I'd be better off without.

Full Disclosure: I don't like the vast majority of RPGs (Final Fantasy included), which might invalidate my opinion for many of you. However, consider this: do I find RPGs tedious because I inherently dislike them, or do I inherently dislike them due to their tedium?

The real Question is, IS it YOUR kind of tedium?

All games are repetitive, just some more then others. IF games didn't repeat you would never know what to do.

It also involves your play style. Do you like to explore and collect everything? Or do you just beat the story.

Rpgs are long games by design, otherwise they wouldn't be a good rpg. People tend to complain if an Rpg is shorter then 20 hours. but other game types can get away with 10 such a Gears, as it would just get boring to have 30 hours of shooting. That and they also have to appeal to their audiences.

AS long as the game has the right amount of content, and that content keeps you busy without getting annoying, nothing else matters.

Either way, Giving artists and designers as much storage as possible is the only way to make a better product. Remember finding a boundary in a game level that wouldn't let you go farther, and getting frustrated because of it? yea thats how artists feel about storage space.

Whoa there Scott, are you saying that you have yet to, besides Bioshock, hear good voice acting done by English VAs?

What I want to know is if this is an opinion that you have for all games, or only those games that come from Japanese developers.

Also, Blue Dragon's English voice acting was amazing, and I expect Lost Odyssey's to be great as well.

I hate to say it but you're looking back at NES era as some golden scenario? I think half the people who praise that era hasn't touched the system in 10+ years.

Games nowadays are huge, period. Now, how this could have been adjusted to better fit on the medium is up for debate. Since I don't have the code in front of me, I cannot tell you the steps they could have taken. But considering I remember the day I had to pay $85 for Chrono Trigger just because of the cartridge size, I'm not exactly the best guy to talk down optical media or how they "bloat" it.

Speaking of which, bloating the code, tragically, is a byproduct of needing to use API's which, like Dreamweaver, add in unnecessary code. But APIs are ultimately needed to actually make these games... well, programmable. No one I know can sit down and type 10 million lines of code and never need to run a debugger. APIs help put that code together and even find the problematic issues. Most of the bloating in code comes directly from sections which have been commented out. Now keep in mind, I'm the dumb artist on all the projects I'm working on, yet I know this much about the coding aspect.

Artificial game lengthening can be a good or bad thing. For me, it's a bad thing. Drives me nuts, personally. But when it isn't in place, the general consumer concensus is that players have been "ripped off." Hell, just look at the Heavenly Sword backlash for evidence.

@ sheppy2.0

I'll agree that API's account for majority of the size of the compiled game code, if you agree that the game code account for less than 10% of the game data.

Tiresome. ^^

Or rumble.

I think you're right, RPG's should be 40-50 hours average (not including side quests). Wasn't Twilight Princess somewhere around 40 hours? I don't see why they'd need four discs for a 50 hour game even when you consider the 10 hour time difference and the graphical differences. If this is about the average length of an RPG, it shouldn't be taking up that much room. Siegel's right, this is just sloppy coding and laziness.

TP was 40 hours with most sidequests (thats how long i took, and i did everything except those stupid Poes)

and that game was 1.5 GB, that's the high estimate

I know right? Although I wouldn't want to play a 50 hour game any time soon, my recent replay of FF7 has already lost me something like 45 hours, and I'm not done.

I don't understand why you think game length has anything to do with how much data it contains. Story and scenario data take up very little compared to models, audio, and movies.

Zelda had no cg or voice acting, and it wasnt even hd.

Lost odyssey has cg, 2 seperate languages worth of audio, and its in HD.

Zelda != RPG
(Except for Tingle's Freshly-picked Rosy Rupeeland, and Zelda II had some RPG elements)

When will people get it straight...

No, you just don't understand how the internet works. You see multi discs are last gen. Why? Becausse sony said so. See, the next gen only starts when sony says, so you have to check facts against their corporate line to see whether or not things are good or not. For instance, multi discs are bad because sony doens't need them. when they did, they were good.

Rumble is also bad, it sucks and you shouldn't want it. You should however want it when the Dual shock 3 is released becaus eit will be good again.

Yeah it was like going to the next section (part, episode or book) within the book. You just knew it was going to get ten times better. Who could forget when Aeris died in Final Fantasy 7 and you fight trying to avenge her untimely death against Sephitroth, and when you finally beat him seeing that it was time for the next chapter on Disk 2. With your adrenline spiked, you couldn't help but get up and put in disk 2. It just felt so epic. Thats why I like disk swapping, when its done in the right way of course.

I agree there was actually something rewarding about disk swapping. I was a N64 owner so I missed out on all that on the PS1 but I remember playing Shenmue 2 on the Dreamcast. Getting to the next disk also signified the beginning of a new chapter in the story.

*Sidenote: I really wish they would finish that story even if it was just in a graphic novel or something.

How's that differ from FFXIII or MGS4 FF7 -> FFXIII excluding FFXI

@Wes:
I guess the difference is that by using Blu-ray or HD-DVD you wouldn't have to swap disks. Duh.

Right there with ya. Especially since the shit you can do in-engine now is pretty AMAZING.

I'm also going through BD right now but I'm confused of why it would be a better game if I didn't have to change the discs two times. Two whole minutes of changing discs hasn't changed the game one bit. (I'm lazy but damn I'm not that lazy.)

HD DVD could hold this, just use compression. What is with all the cut scenes in JRPG, It takes you out of the game. Using the engine, particularly when the content looks good is the future not splicing movies with games.

No they COULDN'T
X360 - November 2005
HD DVD - April 2006
enough of blue ray (for HD DVD or Blu-ray drives) diodes 2007

Time machine requied ( and $$$ )