Following last week's debacle over Halo 3's apparent resolution deficiency, the folks at Bungie have come out pleading their case, stating that the game's visual acuity was given a back seat to HDR, or "High Dynamic Range" lighting, which allows for a broad range of exposures, making possible much greater extremes of light and dark.
So make up your mind. Do you want things crisp or do you want them to glow, because apparently you can't have it both ways. Bungie explains its decision in the following excerpt:
"In fact, you could argue we gave you 1280 pixels of vertical resolution, since Halo 3 uses not one, but two frame buffers – both of which render at 1152x640 pixels. The reason we chose this slightly unorthodox resolution and this very complex use of two buffers is simple enough to see – lighting. We wanted to preserve as much dynamic range as possible – so we use one for the high dynamic range and one for the low dynamic range values. Both are combined to create the finished on screen image."
You hear that? You owe them -- not the other way around. While we agree that Halo 3 is not the graphics showpiece many hoped or expected it to be, we still say that all this fuss over "80p" of resolution is at best splitting hairs and at worst just ridiculous.
Reader Comments (146)
Posted: Oct 1st 2007 3:22PM KiraXD said
except that its almost always overused in a very "N33DZ MOAR HDR LITEINGZ!!" Im not saying its not cool, and it is indeed better (in most cases) than a simple "Lens-Flare" but when your screen is constantly changing lighting conditions so much you think its your HDTV is about to 'splode... it gets quite annoying.
(my biggest complaint with it is when it darkens the screen, but brightens the light source... [GRAW does this alot) makes it hard to see sometimes.
And the fact that i havent seen a Single person in Real-Life who's face "Glows" brightly when i look at them kinda makes me wonder why they do in all these games.
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(my biggest complaint with it is when it darkens the screen, but brightens the light source... [GRAW does this alot) makes it hard to see sometimes.
And the fact that i havent seen a Single person in Real-Life who's face "Glows" brightly when i look at them kinda makes me wonder why they do in all these games.
Posted: Oct 1st 2007 3:28PM FredFredrickson said
That's the whole point of HDR... to simulate how your eyes would react to the lighting in a scene.
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Posted: Oct 1st 2007 3:38PM Zertoss said
Haha I haven't seen anything that bad in-game during my time with Halo 3, but I also haven't made it to that particular scene yet.
It almost looks like the guy on the right is reacting to another light source, like "DAMN! We have enough to worry about with all this HDR abuse! Now you're using flares on your camera to take screenshots?!"
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It almost looks like the guy on the right is reacting to another light source, like "DAMN! We have enough to worry about with all this HDR abuse! Now you're using flares on your camera to take screenshots?!"
Posted: Oct 1st 2007 2:58PM SoulBlade said
using two frame buffers does not mean 2x vertical resolution... if Bungie brought that argument up to anybody technical, they'd admit it's a bit of a stretch.
i'd pick lighting, but i think the real reason they did this was so they wouldn't overload the 360 GPU and cause some badness.
i think it's good that they responded to it though.
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i'd pick lighting, but i think the real reason they did this was so they wouldn't overload the 360 GPU and cause some badness.
i think it's good that they responded to it though.
Posted: Oct 1st 2007 3:30PM FredFredrickson said
The only "badness" that would result is a lower framerate. You can't break the internals of the 360 (or PS3, or any computer) by simply adding more complexity to the scene to be rendered. You just push the framerate down as it takes longer to render each frame.
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Posted: Oct 1st 2007 2:58PM (Unverified) said
I couldn't agree more, even though it isn't a power house in the graphical department, it is an above average looking game and the best looking in the Halo series.
I think people are just trying to find things wrong with Halo 3. Of course, if you think about it, haters and/or the antagonists having to resort to no female leads and 80 pixels is not too bad for fans.
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I think people are just trying to find things wrong with Halo 3. Of course, if you think about it, haters and/or the antagonists having to resort to no female leads and 80 pixels is not too bad for fans.
Posted: Oct 1st 2007 3:32PM FredFredrickson said
Er... why? What difference does it make if the biggest game on a console is 1080p or running in a 320x240 box on the screen, so long as it's a fun game and sells well?
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Posted: Oct 1st 2007 3:04PM tchuks said
So if Xbox360 can't do a game in full resolution due to lighting, it's OK because it's only 80p difference. When Sony can only run a game at 30FPS it's OK because developers are having a hard time understanding the hardware. When Nintendo can't do a game in HD because of the hardware, it's killing hardcore gaming and transforming videogames to casualness (or whatever the latest buzzword is).
I don't understand how XBox and PS3 can get away with not delivering what they promised to deliver (true high def gaming) while the Wii gets scolded for delivering what they can deliver with their hardware. (at best enhanced definition).
I hate to sound like a Wii fanboy, but I just find it funny that if the same thing were to happen on the Wii, it would be ridiculed. Anyone else notice this, or am I going crazy?
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I don't understand how XBox and PS3 can get away with not delivering what they promised to deliver (true high def gaming) while the Wii gets scolded for delivering what they can deliver with their hardware. (at best enhanced definition).
I hate to sound like a Wii fanboy, but I just find it funny that if the same thing were to happen on the Wii, it would be ridiculed. Anyone else notice this, or am I going crazy?
Posted: Oct 1st 2007 3:11PM Vidikron said
Your totally ignoring the gap though. Halo 3 may not be pushing a true HD resolution, but it's still far above what the Wii does. Halo 3 actually looks like a 360 game whereas most of the Wii games still look like Cube games. I'm not saying I agree with the sentiment that the Wii is ruining gaming or anything, but your argument is pretty weak.
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Posted: Oct 1st 2007 3:18PM heypaul said
You don't read much Joystiq do you? (Probably a good thing.) We beat each other up for pretty much everything here. PS3 Madden at 30FPS is not okay, Halo 3 at sub-HD resolution is not okay. RRoD is not okay, reintroduced rumble is not okay. Take a look at the posts that generate 100+ comments. We don't let a thing slide. The fact that you think only the Wii gets ragged on shows that, yes, you probably are a Wii fanboy.
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Posted: Oct 1st 2007 3:19PM Crono141 said
Thats irrelevant to the argument, vid. What he's saying is that when the 360 underperforms relative to its hardware and the PS3 underperforms relative to its hardware, they don't get ragged on near as much as Wii does for doing exactly what they said it was going to do.
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Posted: Oct 1st 2007 3:22PM Vidikron said
@ Crono
You would have a point if he hadn't included that last paragraph where he addressed the issue of people claiming the Wii is ruining hardcore gaming by making a severely underpowered system compared to the others. That's the point I was addressing. It's the huge graphical gap between the 360/PS3 games and the Wii that upsets a lot of gamers... the gap between Halo 3 and other 360/PS3 games is slight to none.
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You would have a point if he hadn't included that last paragraph where he addressed the issue of people claiming the Wii is ruining hardcore gaming by making a severely underpowered system compared to the others. That's the point I was addressing. It's the huge graphical gap between the 360/PS3 games and the Wii that upsets a lot of gamers... the gap between Halo 3 and other 360/PS3 games is slight to none.
Posted: Oct 1st 2007 3:34PM (Unverified) said
30fps at HD resolution is still HD resolution.
640p is still hella better than 480p.
i dont want to play games where the characters are still spherical and polygonal in shape. even a graphically average game like skate looks miles better than mp3.
hey man, if you dont care about graphics, fine. be happy with the wii. i care about graphics so i'll stick to HD.
fanboy plug: i think warhawk looks crisper than halo3 (and multiplayer is never laggy 16v16 =P), and it might have something to do with the res difference, but both look awesome to me (halo3 has bad graphics? come on...)
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640p is still hella better than 480p.
i dont want to play games where the characters are still spherical and polygonal in shape. even a graphically average game like skate looks miles better than mp3.
hey man, if you dont care about graphics, fine. be happy with the wii. i care about graphics so i'll stick to HD.
fanboy plug: i think warhawk looks crisper than halo3 (and multiplayer is never laggy 16v16 =P), and it might have something to do with the res difference, but both look awesome to me (halo3 has bad graphics? come on...)
Posted: Oct 1st 2007 4:31PM (Unverified) said
This happens with the PS3 as well. For example, The Darkness runs at 960x540 and Tony Hawk's Proving Ground is only 600p.
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Posted: Oct 2nd 2007 9:24AM Slaziman said
The bad graphics isn't the Wii's only fault, it's the imprecise accelerometers, the lack of good games, the lack of a good online system, the lack of a lot of modern features on the PS3 and 360.
Also the fact that Nintendo has changed focus and let the core gamers take the back seat. Seriously, graphics are just one of the many issues I have with the Wii.
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Also the fact that Nintendo has changed focus and let the core gamers take the back seat. Seriously, graphics are just one of the many issues I have with the Wii.
Posted: Oct 1st 2007 3:04PM Buster Rod G said
It would be splitting hairs if it was just slightly lower resolution and there were screens that could clearly display 640p. The reason this is a problem is you're forced to upscale and blur the game, which is annoyingly common on Xbox 360 and PS3.
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Posted: Oct 1st 2007 3:26PM mr nimblewick said
I know what you mean. My Wii looks so bad, even on my SDtv, I've taken to taping a picture of Tammy Faye Messner on the screen while I play just to have something relatively pretty to look at.
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Posted: Oct 1st 2007 3:07PM kornchild2002 said
I could really care less, I doubt anyone would notice 80 pixels if they put two versions of the game right next to each other. The people who found this out literally had no time on their hands. Seriously, those people were so desperate to find something wrong with the game that they sat their and counted pixels. I am not saying Halo 3 is perfect but they seriously need to get laid instead of spending time counting pixels.
I do feel a little cheated though as the back of the box states 720p and 1080p. I thought the game was mastered in 1080p, isn't that the point of putting those resolutions on the back of the box? Otherwise all Xbox 360 games could put 1080p as the Xbox 360 has the ability to upscale everything to 1080p. Not that I would notice a difference but it seems like false advertisement to list a resolution that the game was supposedly mastered in then come out and say that they used a smaller resolution.
At least Bungie came out and told the truth, I wonder when they were going to tell us though if those nerds hadn't counted their pixels. Either way it is not going to stop me from enjoying the game.
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I do feel a little cheated though as the back of the box states 720p and 1080p. I thought the game was mastered in 1080p, isn't that the point of putting those resolutions on the back of the box? Otherwise all Xbox 360 games could put 1080p as the Xbox 360 has the ability to upscale everything to 1080p. Not that I would notice a difference but it seems like false advertisement to list a resolution that the game was supposedly mastered in then come out and say that they used a smaller resolution.
At least Bungie came out and told the truth, I wonder when they were going to tell us though if those nerds hadn't counted their pixels. Either way it is not going to stop me from enjoying the game.
Posted: Oct 1st 2007 3:11PM mr nimblewick said
"couldn't care less" and "too much time on their hands."
Sorry, had to fix that.
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Sorry, had to fix that.
Posted: Oct 1st 2007 3:30PM mr nimblewick said
If by "colloquial" you mean lazy and nonsensical American version, you're correct.
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Posted: Oct 1st 2007 3:33PM (Unverified) said
Anyone find it ironic some grammar nazi fixes "too much time on their hands"?
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Posted: Oct 1st 2007 3:38PM mr nimblewick said
"Anyone find it ironic some grammar nazi fixes "too much time on their hands"?"
What can I say? I literally have no time on my hands.
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What can I say? I literally have no time on my hands.
Posted: Oct 1st 2007 4:16PM (Unverified) said
Actually, either is correct usage. It depends on if you want your statement to be serious (couldn't) or sarcastic (could).
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Posted: Oct 1st 2007 4:22PM mr nimblewick said
Actually, the sarcasm explanation was added after the term was coined. It came about through the simple process of dropping complication from language. People don't like that as a justification, though (since it makes no sense), so it suddenly became "sarcasm."
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Posted: Oct 1st 2007 4:57PM heypaul said
What about when people use "literally" when they mean "figuratively?" That one gets to me. That's what nimblewick was referencing in his "literally no time" comment, right? Or am I reading too much into grammar police subtext?
"I was so excited when I opened Halo 3, I literally had a heart attack!"
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"I was so excited when I opened Halo 3, I literally had a heart attack!"
Posted: Oct 1st 2007 3:17PM (Unverified) said
Its not a big deal because this board is populated with xBots.. if KillZone2 did this, you can bet your life that the xbots would be out in droves declaring Sony lairs, etc...
Anyways, HDR + 720p = RRoD .. simple as that.
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Anyways, HDR + 720p = RRoD .. simple as that.
Posted: Oct 1st 2007 3:26PM FredFredrickson said
It's not really "simple as that," but I doubt you'd understand or appreciate the complexities.
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Posted: Oct 1st 2007 4:12PM sand0789 said
The Darkness ran at 1024x576 on PS3 and runs at 720p on the 360. I don't recall as big of a deal being made of it by xbots. Post #454 of the following link contains a list of other shockingly horrific ass rapings(sarcasm) that devs have laid on us gamers this gen.
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=43330&page=19
This just isn't a big deal at all. Bungie made a design decision and we can only speculate whether or not the game would have looked better at 720p without dual HDR buffering.
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http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=43330&page=19
This just isn't a big deal at all. Bungie made a design decision and we can only speculate whether or not the game would have looked better at 720p without dual HDR buffering.
Posted: Oct 1st 2007 3:18PM (Unverified) said
people need to stop trying to poke holes into stuff....
Bungie did an incredible job...
i mean, cmon...how often does a WHOLE universe of fiction get created? (that's actually worth readin)
and how often does a worldwide phenomenon happen?
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Bungie did an incredible job...
i mean, cmon...how often does a WHOLE universe of fiction get created? (that's actually worth readin)
and how often does a worldwide phenomenon happen?
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