Epic still not supporting Wii
by Ross Miller 
{ Oct 5th 2007 at 2:54PM }
Not everyone is planning on riding Nintendo's money-printing coattails. In an interview with GameTrailers (embedded above), Epic Games Vice President Mark Rein stated that, as he has on multiple occasions before, that the Unreal and Gears of War developer has no intention on providing middleware support for the Wii.
Rein cited resource concerns, saying that the company is more focused on pushing the limits of PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360. Interestingly, Rein also commented how making Wii graphics engines is not that profitable. "I think unless you're going to sell your engine to Nintendo, you're going for scraps on that platform," he said.
That point has been brought up before, how developers are not interested, and possibly lazy, in developing for the Wii platform and that their budgets for that platform are pretty low. However, from the perspective of a game developer, perhaps Epic could find a way to convert Unreal Tournament 2004 onto Nintendo's platform. The software alone would be profitable, we imagine, and then they'd have Unreal Engine 2 to license out.
Update: As it has been pointed out in the comments below, some Wii titles such as Red Steel do utilize Unreal Engine 2 -- optimized for the GameCube (keep the jokes to yourself, for now). However, we'd be interested to see Epic take the engine an optimize for the Wii's hardware upgrade.
Also, some people seem to be confused by Rein's profit comment. The profits for Epic wouldn't come from game sales but from licensing out the engine. Since most developers don't focus on the graphical prowess of their Wii titles, Epic would not be able to charge much for their engine -- hence why Rein doesn't feel the Wii would be a profitable venture for them.
[Via NWF]
Rein cited resource concerns, saying that the company is more focused on pushing the limits of PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360. Interestingly, Rein also commented how making Wii graphics engines is not that profitable. "I think unless you're going to sell your engine to Nintendo, you're going for scraps on that platform," he said.
That point has been brought up before, how developers are not interested, and possibly lazy, in developing for the Wii platform and that their budgets for that platform are pretty low. However, from the perspective of a game developer, perhaps Epic could find a way to convert Unreal Tournament 2004 onto Nintendo's platform. The software alone would be profitable, we imagine, and then they'd have Unreal Engine 2 to license out.
Update: As it has been pointed out in the comments below, some Wii titles such as Red Steel do utilize Unreal Engine 2 -- optimized for the GameCube (keep the jokes to yourself, for now). However, we'd be interested to see Epic take the engine an optimize for the Wii's hardware upgrade.
Also, some people seem to be confused by Rein's profit comment. The profits for Epic wouldn't come from game sales but from licensing out the engine. Since most developers don't focus on the graphical prowess of their Wii titles, Epic would not be able to charge much for their engine -- hence why Rein doesn't feel the Wii would be a profitable venture for them.
[Via NWF]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
CaptainAmericaX @ Oct 5th 2007 3:01PM
LLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRR
megaStryke @ Oct 5th 2007 3:01PM
This guy never liked the Wii to begin with. Surprise, surprise.
Bloo @ Oct 5th 2007 5:10PM
I don't see how this has anything to do with him not liking the Wii. If the Wii would be profitable for the way they do business you bet your life they would be working with it hate it or not.
JodyAnthony (FDF - Hedonism Bot) @ Oct 5th 2007 3:03PM
how many times is he going to say this same thing?
Duscrom @ Oct 5th 2007 3:18PM
As many times as they keep asking him the same damn question.
Remember folks.. 90% of these quotes are because some intrepid interviewer pushed them to say SOMETHING about a certain platform/company.
Hendextall @ Oct 5th 2007 3:16PM
Probably every time he gets asked.
JodyAnthony (FDF - Hedonism Bot) @ Oct 5th 2007 3:30PM
my mistake, wasnt aware this was an interview (videos blocked at work)
mr nimblewick (SegaDF - Jogurt Ring) @ Oct 5th 2007 3:03PM
Well, he's one of the few to be making a profit off the 360, soon the PS3. Other developers won't be so lucky.
spoo @ Oct 5th 2007 3:49PM
Don't make ignorant comments. 360 is/has always done great with software sales for 3rd party's software. It has a large attach rate and moves software. I don't care if you like the 360 or not but it is moving 3rd party software at an amazing rate.
Nintendo on the other hand is doing what Nintendo does and moving a large amount of 1st party games. Just look at the recently released Madden games, the Wii Madden software was outsold by Xbox1 Madden. If the Wii can't even move the sure thing how can it move anything else. The only 3rd party Wii game to penetrate the top to was RE4 at #9 for June (A slow gaming month.)
360 on the other hand has at least two non 1st party games on the top ten month after month since near release. Epic isn't the only one making money off of 360 software. Eastern developers aren't having the easiest time but Western developers are cashing in on the cash cow that is software on the 360.
Michael C. Sherrin @ Oct 5th 2007 3:04PM
Yeah, it's tough to see Unreal 3 on the Wii. And the Wii has its pluses. Epic makes the best graphics. The Wii just isn't for that. Epic knows where its strengths are. I would love to see some great middleware to make Wii games with better graphics, but that doesn't have to be Epic. Epic just needs to get me my Gears of War 2. Like yesterday.
*******
Michael C. Sherrin
http://www.prodigeek.com/
jsn @ Oct 5th 2007 3:04PM
why would they? it's like id supporting the Wii. They make cutting edge games/engines and despite the unique controllers the Wii is not cutting edge.
Ihar `Philips` Filipau @ Oct 5th 2007 8:13PM
Precisely. But your logic is bit out of line.
Right now - at early stage of Wii life cycle - games tend to be ports. Most - if not all - depends on game engine to allow such porting in efficient manner, so that entry into market of new console would be low risk.
It is precisely Wii which requires advanced and sophisticated engine - because it has less resources compared to Xbox and PS3. And not only engine has to be better - artwork also has to be better, because on Wii one just can't throw more textures to make something look better.
Epic is openly after markets where people simply throw resources at problems. What is also fine - as line of business.
To be perfectly honest, I think that "engines" mattered in past - before OpenGL and DirectX took hold in the market. In the times of Doom/Quake/Duke - it really mattered because of performance constrains of GPU and CPU. Depending on engine you could or could not achieve particular effects. Now the resources and effects are abundant (and standardized) and most limiting resource is ... human resource. Engines now are more or less frameworks where you just fill blanks, thus allowing basically any idiot to write a game. What is good for business and what business is after.
Engines now are business buzzword - it's not about gaming anymore.
Mr Khan @ Oct 5th 2007 3:08PM
I doubt they would be supporting Wii even if it were on par with PS360, iD too
Both those companies just have a bad history of working with Nintendo consoles. But I still don't understand why Mark Rein consistently has to comment on it, why do people like bringing this up with him/or why does he love to talk about it?
jsn @ Oct 5th 2007 3:19PM
he was asked you know, it's not like the guy runs around looking for people to listen to him on how shitty he thinks the wii is.
Mr Khan @ Oct 5th 2007 3:25PM
The question stands (i wasn't aware whether this was a personal vendetta or some press fixation, now aware that its the latter) why do people keep asking him, then?
Wii bash = hits, i suppose
samfish (MSDF- Nurse Outfit!) @ Oct 5th 2007 3:08PM
He'll likely change his tune once UT3 bombs on the PS3.
eclipse27 @ Oct 5th 2007 4:04PM
You just dont get it do you. look the Wii is great, honestly it is (I plan on getting one for MP3 thats the only game on the system i want), but Nintendo decided to go a different route, blah blah blah...look everyone will not like the Wii no matter how good the marketing or whatever.
It pisses me off when someone as accomplished as Mark Rein in the industry as him makes a comment positive toward the PS3 you guys wanna damn him to all eternal hell or just says that the Wii isnt for him and his crew.
Its not the end of the world if a developer does not like the Wii. Was it the end of the world when Shigeru Miyamoto said he could make Halo? As ridiculous a statement that was for him to make the world was still intact at the end of day. Everyone needs to stop the console bashing and just enjoy all the games. Period
Sean @ Oct 5th 2007 3:10PM
Epic Wii.
Crono (NDF - French Taunting from Holy Grail Ring) @ Oct 5th 2007 3:15PM
UE2.5 (UT2004) would make a find addition to the Wii's middleware libraries. I guess this guy just doesn't want free money.
He also comes across as an arrogant sony/MS prick. He obviously believes the only reason to own a nintendo system is for 1st party games.
Heads up moron: If you made middleware for wii that didn't suck, people would license it.
Mr Khan @ Oct 5th 2007 3:18PM
To be fair: He's following what public perception of serious 3rd party wii titles is, and not looking at the fact that wii owners ARE starving for real titles, as shown by the strong sales of the mediocre Red Steel
MariosInferno @ Oct 5th 2007 3:51PM
Bam...that's it right there. First thing that popped in my mind...I guess you don't want to make more money.
Duscrom @ Oct 5th 2007 4:16PM
Unreal 2.5 is already on the Wii. Red Steel was on UE2.5 and probably so was Splinter Cell.
Crono (NDF - French Taunting from Holy Grail Ring) @ Oct 5th 2007 4:23PM
yes, but it wasn't specifically tooled for the wii by epic. UE2.5 used in red steel was modified from UE2.5 for gamecube, which is one reason why red steel looks like so much ass.
If epic engineers sat down and retooled UE2.5 for wii (and call it UEWii), devs would be able to get alot more performance out of the hardware without the headache of figuring out motion controls and all that jazz.
Thats assuming epic engineers could make a decent UEWii engine
redneckvampire @ Oct 5th 2007 3:16PM
No, he's likely to change his tune when the install base for the Wii gets too big to ignore. Then again, that fat faced loser might just whine and gripe that the Wii is in the number one place but can't do the graphics they want to do. Remember when he whined about integrated video cards taking away their install base? "There are brand new PCs coming out that aren't powerful enough to play our games". Cry me a freakin' river.
Dio @ Oct 5th 2007 10:18PM
Too bad he doesn't know that a LOT of software surpasses our current hardware =/
Duscrom @ Oct 5th 2007 3:18PM
3 things to remember. Unreal Engine 2 has already been on Wii. See Red Steel and Splinter Cell. Both of those are UE2 games.. so this is specifically about Unreal 3 which is about Next Gen graphics.... it doesn't NEED to be on Wii. That's like putting a Race car engine in a Power Wheels truck.. There is no point in doing it because the chassis can't handle 90% of it's power.
Secondly, 3rd parties are not making money on the Wii. Save for companies who spit out cheapo Movie license games (Ubisoft) I mean, If Madden on Wii can barely beat out the OG Xbox version.. what hope is there for 3rd parties? Nintendo is selling hardware and 1st party games.... Right now, Xbox 360 gamers are the one buying games. Isn't that proved month after month by NPD charts? EVERY month the top spots are held by xbox 360 games or PS2 games, and Wii getting Mario Party 8, Wii Play and/or the latest 1st party game.
UE3 is pointless for mini-game fests.. there is no need for it on Wii. Mark said it before... UE2 is on Wii, that's all they really need.
phattie @ Oct 5th 2007 3:21PM
BEST POST YET!
Mr Khan @ Oct 5th 2007 3:22PM
"3rd parties are not making money on the Wii"
Not true, see articles talking about how not only mini-game porters like Ubisoft, but more serious companies like Konami, Capcom, SEGA, and even EA are increasing profit projections because they're supporting the Wii
360's got the better attach rate, but Wii's making money for 3rd parties too
Shockgamer @ Oct 5th 2007 3:25PM
Exactly. Heaven forbid they show some integrity and no succumb to making another cartoony mini-game collection like every other 3rd party.
phattie @ Oct 5th 2007 3:27PM
^^ the only reason Capcom made money was because they took a AAA GC game and added waggles.. no development costs plus existing fanbase. Sega is making money by partnering with MArio in that Olympics games.. EA is making money by porting like theyve done for the past 15 years. Konami is making money off wii? How?
MariosInferno @ Oct 5th 2007 3:57PM
"360's got the better attach rate, but Wii's making money for 3rd parties too"
Cannot compare a console that's been on the market for two years with two years worth of games to a console with the same amount of sales but only one year worth of games. Of-f***ing-course the 360 has a better attach rate. The only thing the lower attach rate on the Wii currently shows is that Nintendo is selling a f***-load of consoles. It's a misleading figure when you currently have the best-selling console ever....and it get's thrown around WAY TOOO MUCH around here.
Duscrom @ Oct 5th 2007 4:34PM
No, Hardware sales is what's getting thrown around way tooo much. First of all, Sales figures get thrown around way too much anyway.. but the idea of that is that sales attract developer.
So I'm a developer, a 3rd party developer and I'm looking to make a game. So what am I going to look at. Wii... instal base on 11 million.. most of them in Japan. Who's the audience? You look at the games selling on the platform. First party games and mini-game collections. That's what the audience like. Wii is geared towards the casual crowd. How can i Maximize my investment? Either a) make a game that attracts to the primary audience.. or b) cut my costs and expect to sell to a lower, minority group. Now sure you have the "untapped" area of the Wii market, the "Hardcore" gamers. They are starved for games. Let's look at the games aimed toward them. Scarface? Madden? Nether of those games.. or many like them, make a dent in sales. Resident Evil 4? didn't crack the top 20.
Now look here at the Xbox 360. It too has sold 11 million consoles, mostly in North America. Who is the audience? Older males age 19-25. What are they buying? Guitar Hero 2, Madden, BioShock, Halo, Saint's row... So 3rd party action games sell. In this case I have a better chance of maximizing my investments by aiming at the Mass Market segment. I'm making software, more software is being sold on the 360.
But you know, if we are just using hardware numbers for a corporate shill/ dick waving contest.. you're right, Software attach rate shouldn't be compared.. because... well the Wii has an excuse or 2. Cause just because 11 million people own the consoles, that doesn't mean they should be buying the games! Cause.. Well, i don't know how that argument makes sense.
God, I wish for the days when we all just played video games and wern't arguing over the net about stupid shit like this. "Oh system a sells more" Why does it fucking matter? Are you that much of a sheep that you have to buy the console that is the most popular or else? Yeah Justin Timberlake sold the most CDs last month... don't forget to pick that up, as well as your SpiderMan 3 DVD, oh and don't forget to watch that new movie with The Rock in it, where he take care of kids.. It sold alot so it MUST be good! And make sure you guys only read this on Internet Explorer 6, seeing as 70% of the market uses it. It sold the most so it MUST be great.
Lou @ Oct 5th 2007 3:17PM
Did you guys forget that Red Steel was made using UR 2.5?
Anyway, I guess Epic didn't hear that the Gamebryo middleware engine has been optimized for the Wii.
WiNG @ Oct 5th 2007 3:17PM
You left out the quote on Wii Fanboy where he claims there is not as much profit to be made on the Wii as there is on the PS3.
I totally nose-squirted some chocolate milk on that one.
xXFenixKnight13Xx @ Oct 5th 2007 3:20PM
GoW 2 E3 next year trust me.
phattie @ Oct 5th 2007 3:24PM
Unless nintendo starts using the Unreal Engine.. how are they going to make any money? 3rd party game have zero chance of making it post launch (RE4 dont count since its a proven last gen port with zero development costs to add waggle).
Rob Accomando @ Oct 5th 2007 3:20PM
Unreal 1 and 2 remade for the Wii would sell. They would definitely run on Wii hardware.
Oh well.
CrazyTheClown @ Oct 5th 2007 3:23PM
Unreal 2? Doubt it. Graphically its more demanding than UT2004 as well.
UT1 barely ran on the PS2, so what makes you think a game with better graphics than UT2004 will run better on the Wii?
CrazyTheClown @ Oct 5th 2007 3:27PM
Unreal 2? Doubt it. Graphically its more demanding than UT2004 as well.
UT1 barely ran on the PS2, so what makes you think a game with better graphics than UT2004 will run better on the Wii?
Mr Khan @ Oct 5th 2007 3:27PM
because Wii > PS2?
CrazyTheClown @ Oct 5th 2007 3:30PM
But by how much?
I doubt the Wii is too much powerful than the Gamecube.
Crono (NDF - French Taunting from Holy Grail Ring) @ Oct 5th 2007 3:30PM
Because: even though wii is 2 GC duct taped together, its easily 4-6 PS2's hot glued together.
PS2 was not a powerhouse.
WiNG @ Oct 5th 2007 3:33PM
"But by how much?
I doubt the Wii is too much powerful than the Gamecube."
Actually it is EXACTLY 100% more powerful than a Gamecube. Maybe 105% if you count the increased cooling power offered by duct tape.
Rob Accomando @ Oct 5th 2007 3:34PM
Wii is more powerful than the Cube and PS2. It COULD run Unreal 1 and 2 at 480p easy. Look at the system specs.
phattie @ Oct 5th 2007 3:35PM
100% increase would put it well past XBOX territory .. nothing that has been released has shown that it is even capable of producing XBOX graphics.. hell, its struggle to keep PSP graphics at bay.
Cyro @ Oct 5th 2007 3:48PM
So now developers have to work on last gen tech and old code because nintendo decided to duck tape 2 cubes together. The Wii is for retirement homes and little kids, and of course nintendo fanboys that will keep playing until Mario 58 comes out and Zelda 102 gets out. When I look at the wii, it some times makes me feel embarrassed of being a gamer. It makes me feel like time has not passed by and we are still in 1990's.
I mean come on people?! ITs 2007 and you are still playing with a gay plumer in an overall suit. WTF.
TwEE @ Oct 5th 2007 3:57PM
Posts like yours cyro make me feel embarrassed of being a gamer.
I kid I kid, you seem like a swell, hardcore mountain dew kinda guy.
Rob Accomando @ Oct 5th 2007 4:00PM
Yes, I still love playing the gay plumber in the overall suit. I'll probably still play him for many years to come. (Along with Microsoft and Sony console games and PC.)
Duscrom @ Oct 5th 2007 4:15PM
What System specs? Nobody has posted the specs of the Wii yet..
But that being said, the Wii could easily run Unread 1 and 2, and UT1. UT1's running badly on the PS2 was mostly because it was a 1st gen game.. in fact, i think it was a launch window game too. Coders were having a problem getting used to the PS2's architecture.
But as stated above RED STEEL IS ON UE 2.5!!!!!! UNREAL 2 IS ALREADY ON WII!!!!!!!!!!
How many times does this need to be said. Epic already has UE2 For WII! UNREAL ENGINE 3 is not because it was CREATED for high-end shaders, and high-end physics... neither of which the Wii can do!... SOOOOO Devs are able to use the CHEAPER TO LICENCE and MUCH MORE ESTABLISHED UNREAL 2, and add in a 3rd party physics engine.
Tom @ Oct 5th 2007 10:55PM
Metroid Prime 3 looks BETTER than Unreal Tournament 2004. The resolution may not be as high, but the lighting, effects, poly-count, and art-style of MP3 are superior to those of UT2k4. That's all that counts; that proves there's room for Epic's UE2 to grow on and be improved upon for the Wii.