Today in Joystiq: October 5, 2007
Even though it cost them practically nothing to upload written software that lets it work, Sony in its Great Benevolence decided to screw customers but tell them that it's for their own good. doth quote the Penny Arcade, "we need you to believe another new lie." [Update: The conversation continues here.] Congratulations on the dubious award, check out the highlights for today:
Joystiquery
DS Fanboy Lite: Sept. 28, 2007 - Oct. 5, 2007
Joycast Podcast 019 - Eating crow edition
Today's trickiest warthog jump video: Halo: The Three Towers: Revisited
News
Savage 2 beta arrives for paying customers
Super Smash Bros. Brawl features co-op
Nintendo's outside PR head lands at Kohnke Communications
Dennis Kucinich opens up shop in Second Life
Codemasters bringing pirates, wizards, and dragons to Wii, DS
It's official: Bungie branches off from Microsoft
Majesco picks up Nanostray sequel for 2008
40GB PS3 official for Europe -- no backwards compatibility, at all
Crysis' console future reliant on PC version's success
Guitar Hero III's wireless PS3 guitar rocking a dongle
Epic still not supporting Wii
EA snatches up PlayLinc dev SCI
Sony explains why there's no BC in the 40GB PS3
Super Halo Brothers traverse World 1-1
Too Human video developer diary coming to Xbox Live
Pirates of the Burning Sea shivers your timbers Jan. 22
Rumors & Speculation
Rumor: Contra 4 releasing Nov. 13
Culture & Community
KB Toys: DS/GBA games are buy one, get other 50% off
Major Nelson asks gamers, 'Sup?
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
LAZoftheTamarinds @ Oct 6th 2007 12:08AM
Well that sucks! I expected backwards compatibility from you Sony. BOOOO! But congrats on the W.T.F. award.
Snatcher (MDF - Halo Ring) @ Oct 6th 2007 3:12AM
Hopefully they will find a nice place for the WTF AWARD in their SONY HOME Lounge area. This way other PS3 owners can go check it out and ask themselves WTF they were thinking when they bought the PS3.
samfish (MSDF- Nurse Outfit!) @ Oct 6th 2007 4:53AM
ah ahAH! It's M*S*DF and we wear girly outfits. The NDf and SDF (mostly the NDF, those bastards) hoarded all the rings for themselves.
I'm Team Leader Nurse and RJS is Battle Angel. You can be French Maid, Cheer Leader or School Girl.
The1 @ Oct 6th 2007 9:21AM
Why is Sony doing this you ask????? It simple, Sony knows that the games for the PS3 are not selling like they should. So what do you do to increase sales. You make the mew PS3 model cheaper and with backwards compatibility, thus forcing people to buy a true PS3.
rockintom @ Oct 6th 2007 10:06AM
Ok, not to go against the sheep-like following of Sony hatred, but... uh, remember something called the Xbox 360 Core? The one that is (or was) a hundred dollars cheaper? Anyone care to remember a feature it does not have?
Mogaar @ Oct 6th 2007 10:29AM
"uh, remember something called the Xbox 360 Core? The one that is (or was) a hundred dollars cheaper? Anyone care to remember a feature it does not have?"
Yes, but you can purchase the hard drive later at your leisure. You can't upgrade the gimped PS3 to have backwards compatibility...
blooh (CDF - Ass Ring) @ Oct 6th 2007 11:53AM
didnt the core 360 come with a memory card? could you store backwards compat data on it?
Neebs @ Oct 6th 2007 12:36PM
You know, I linked to SDF one day on Joystiq (to a mass replyspam), I fear I may have started this whole silly *DF - * Ring/Outfit business.
Killjebus @ Oct 6th 2007 1:23PM
Anyone notice a number of comments deleted? So Joystiq, several posters called you out on your BS, and instead of CHANGING the story (as you have done many times b4) you just delete those posts.
"Even though it cost them practically nothing to upload written software that lets it work, Sony in its Great Benevolence decided to screw customers but tell them that it's for their own good."
Here Joystiq "reporters" I will explain it to you. You see, the PS2 had 2 chips. 1 was the EE or Emotion Engine, the other chip was the GS or Graphics Synthesizer. The 60GB SCEE PS3 and the 80GB SCEA PS3's HAD the GS. The EE was removed but NOT the GS.
But hey, facts...schmaks right Joystiq? I mean bashing Sony is so in vogue right now why let actual FACTS get in the way?
So many of you anti-Sony zealots repeat over and over that Sony lies, yet here at Joystiq the bloggers who right for this site LIE about Sony, our pointed out by many different comments that Joystiq is wrong and yet Joystiq does NOTHING about it.
I will never understand the HATE for Sony from this site. Sony is just 1 of many mega corporations that exist on this planet. NEWS PLASH LADIES they all have, and will continue to "lie" (translation change their minds) about certain product specifications.
The PSX became the PSONE, the PS2 became the PSTWO. Both of these previous Playstations underwent many different disign changes during thier production lifetimes. DID SONY LIE THEN?
The PSX had the I/O port and the RYW composite connector removed.
The PS2 had the PSX chip removed (for BC) and the firewire port removed.
Where were all of you crying babies then? Probably playing PS1 and PS2 games.
Uncharted is looking mighty fine. And please do not tell me that it is a Gears clone. Does Gears change up the animations every single time the character takes cover against a wall?
Killjebus @ Oct 6th 2007 1:31PM
"Joystiq is wrong and yet Joystiq does NOTHING about it."
My bad. Joystiq DID do something about it. They deleted those comments.
"Truth? You want truth? You can't (Joystiq bloggers) handle the truth."
blooh (CDF - Ass Ring) @ Oct 6th 2007 3:58PM
actually i think it was the other readers who voted the comments down to oblivion
steve @ Oct 7th 2007 10:13PM
to Killjebus:
you fail...
honestly, your completly uninformed and mindless zombie like rant makes me laugh. I picture you as a drooling little kid, spewing nonsence, eyes stuck in a dumbfound gaze...
Anyone else want a kick, click is name and it shows you all of his comments. It's quite entertaining.
Th3Ren @ Oct 6th 2007 12:12AM
Can't you see what Sony's doing? They're rewarding early adopters. By taking away features, nobody who bought the system in its young age can complain about getting the raw end of the deal. They're rewarding consumers.
So let's constantly complain about how companies always screw those over consumers who adopt early, then crucify them when they finally reward us. Nice job, Joystiq. Way to ruin it for the reast of us.
ThornedVenom @ Oct 6th 2007 2:00AM
You call not kicking your ass a rewarding experience? Feel rewarded that I didn't kick your ass for that comment.
John @ Oct 6th 2007 2:42AM
I'm with you man.
Hey everyone, let's criticize Sony for making a PS3 and expecting you to play PS3 games on it!
If you want to play PS1/PS2 games on a PS3, then GET THE PREMIUM MODEL. It's as simple as that. A bunch of whiners, the lot of you are.
Poisoned Al @ Oct 6th 2007 7:37AM
Got a PS3 huh? Hold on, let me call a waabulance!
DangerMouse @ Oct 6th 2007 9:49AM
Not really. The new price tag is something they lose a LOT of cash on by selling. The lack of backwards compatibility will deter the customer who wants the feature towards the more expensive 80GB version. But if they decide to buy the 40GB version, they're guaranteed to purchase $60 games (and not 5 dollar used ps2 ones at gamestop), which is where they make there money to recoup the loss of the low priced console.
angry guy @ Oct 6th 2007 12:12AM
10-year product cycle! i give it 10 months before its completely in the dust, and MGS and FF13 are announced for 360.
there are no words to describe the piece of utter garbage that is the ps3.
Th3Ren @ Oct 6th 2007 12:17AM
You just described it as a piece of utter garbage...
AgentESPIO7 @ Oct 6th 2007 12:52AM
Well, hey, I don't like the PS3 either, but its not horribly worthless. I mean, theres some things on it to look forward to, like Home and, um, some games?
WTangoFoxtrot @ Oct 6th 2007 12:16AM
congrats on the WTF award sony now WTF is wrong with you !!!
LAZoftheTamarinds @ Oct 6th 2007 12:21AM
LOL! That comment made my day! :)
Deviation @ Oct 6th 2007 12:23AM
Considering the GS and its' EDRAM were still in the 80gb unit, cutting out the backwards compatibility saves them ~$27 per console sold.
Only the EE is emulated on the 80gb units and the European 60gbs.
Korova @ Oct 6th 2007 12:24AM
Sony has really achieved something special.
Matman @ Oct 6th 2007 12:28AM
Joystiq writers, I can't believe you don't know the background to the hardware you write about. The CPU can be software emulated, but the graphics card (GS Chip) cannot. In the 80Gb they use software emulation for the Emotion Engine (the CPU) but they can't for the GS. By not including it, they shave $27 per console. Its not like they are too lazy to upload some code. The consumer has been whining about the price, so they're cutting costs wherever they can.
The WTF award goes to you Joystiq, for not doing your research. It lacks the hardware.
Sain @ Oct 6th 2007 12:34AM
THANK YOU!
Sain @ Oct 6th 2007 12:35AM
I wonder if these so called joystiq writers actually read comments....they might learn a thing or two.
kinshadow @ Oct 6th 2007 12:52AM
How much of the original XBOX hardware does the 360 have? Oh right, that would NONE! I guess emulating x86 on a custom PPC is SO much easier than MIPS on a PPC.
Stop make excuses for Sony.
ThornedVenom @ Oct 6th 2007 2:03AM
Nice point, but I'd rather they had set better priorities since the beginning. Shave off that Blu-Ray and Cell instead of that retrocompatibility: playing PS2 games without ever having owned a PS2 was a selling point for me.
bl13 @ Oct 6th 2007 2:36AM
"Shave off that Blu-Ray and Cell instead of that retrocompatibility: playing PS2 games without ever having owned a PS2 was a selling point for me."
Hmmm so something without Blu-ray and Cell that plays PS2 games. Ever considered a PS2?
Poisoned Al @ Oct 6th 2007 7:42AM
So it has no BC because it's shit? Yeah, you're really talking me into buying one buddy!
However, Joystiq should get their facts straight if this is true.
hoagie @ Oct 6th 2007 12:00PM
So the beast that is the PS3, regarded as being twice as powerful as God Himself, can't emulate the PS2 via software? The same machine that we're told is so powerful and complex, it's potential won't be fully realized for years?
There is a fairly decent PS2 emu available for the PC... it requires beefy hardware and the framerates aren't always ideal... but if we can get to that point from a team of a few hobbyist coders on PC hardware... shouldn't we be able to get something better from a group of professional Sony programmers utilizing the PS3?
AirIntake @ Oct 6th 2007 2:01PM
Why can't the mighty PS3 emulate the PS2 completely through software. I mean, the 'less powerful' 360 can emulate the xbox, which was more powerful than the PS2. It should be peanuts for Sony to emulate the PS2.........unless they don't know what they're doing, which I think we've suspected all along. The 360s 42% backward compatibility is starting to look pretty good, compared to the 99%->65%->0% dive in BC the PS3 has been shafted with.
cartman80 @ Oct 6th 2007 2:11PM
Really? It can't? At all? That's news to me. Do you think as far as programming goes there's a difference between hardware and software? Well, there isn't. Anything that can be done in hardware, can be done in software, and vice-versa. That's how emulators work. I should know, I write code for a living.
Marasai @ Oct 6th 2007 2:22PM
And in trying to shave prices, they permanently gimp their machine. Why didn't they take out the wifi? That isn't necessary. Why not made an even smaller hdd? You can swap them so size doesn't matter. Put the cheapest hdd you can find in there knowing peopel will replace it.
INstead sony chose to screw over the very people they want to buy their system-ps2 owners.
Mark @ Oct 6th 2007 12:29AM
I doubt that it's a decision like that on Sony's part, though it's really all speculation one way or the other right now.
More likely the previous 'software' backwards compatibility wasn't completely software-based and they removed another piece of hardware that it needed. I've heard that it may have been the PS2 graphics chip.
Sain @ Oct 6th 2007 12:33AM
You guys seriously need to do some research before spewing off BS.
Sony wasn't using 100% software emulation. They only REMOVED the EE chip, not the GS graphics chip. The 40GB loses that which is why its not compatible at all.
Sony didn't manage to screw this up. It's just you guys who crucify Sony for whatever they do.
You guys are just running a soap opera here.....it's really pathetic.
MYPS3KilledMy360 @ Oct 6th 2007 12:35AM
if your going to by a 40 gig PS3 just dont throw away your PS2. problem solved or just buy a 60 gig. i didnt care if the PS3 had it or not i sold all my old games to get more PS3 games.
CrazyTheClown @ Oct 6th 2007 12:41AM
Exactly.
There IS an OPTION for the bigger PS3.
If you want backwards compat, get the 60/80GB version. If you're like me and does not care about any PS2 game anymore, then stuff it and get the 40GB.
angry guy @ Oct 6th 2007 12:43AM
thats like selling your harem to buy a cheap hooker.
License to ill @ Oct 6th 2007 12:43AM
ICEBERG dead ahead sir...
voodoomage @ Oct 6th 2007 12:56AM
utter B.S. sony fanboys.... are you trying to say that the PS3 graphics chip can't handle what the PS2 could.... and emulator can be written for the ps3 graphics processor and all...you guys make any excuse you can to defend sony...pathetic....
sheppy2.0 @ Oct 6th 2007 1:57AM
Well, allow me to answer your question with another question. Don't you find it completely odd that an emulator on PSP cannot run Chrono Trigger at it's full speed?
Let's put it this way. A true emulation solution requires a hell of a lot more power than the originally emulated software and there is NEVER a blanket solution. The hardware solution runs majority of the stuff. The partial software emulation uses part of the hardware to handle the things the emu cannot. The total software solution needs to not only pretend it's a different thing entirely, but properly emulate those cycles at an appropriate speed. The software solution is best handled on a game per game basis ala ports and Xbox 360.
So how does this tie into Sony? Well, you see, Sony shot themselves in the foot last gen. Rather than license a GPU from another party like Gamecube and Xbox, Sony engineered their own. So unlike Gamecube and Xbox, PS2 had very specific graphic calls to the GS that are not found in later hardware... aka, RSX. So in other words, the Sony solution was using the GS to handle the GS calls. Without the GS and it's very specific details, all of their emu code will essentially be broken. So then they have a choice.
Do they offer a software solution that doesn't work and will likely damage hardware or do they just say "it's gone for the time being?"
Now the reason why I say for the time being is simple. According to SCEE, no further efforts for BC are currently being made, despite PSX code compatibility. However, this is Sony Europe. Thier fingers couldn't be further from the pulse of Sony if they were working for Nintendo. Their job is to smile pretty and play the hypemen. Meanwhile, if there is currently no software solution, who's to say one isn't being worked on right now? They have added features they said the system wouldn't do in the past. Enough consumer demand would force a software solution, if one isn't already in the works.
So I am not making excuses for Sony since I don't know what they are planning in the long term. Keep in mind, according to SCEA, this system still doesn't exist. UPC is registered, FCC filed, but it's still not happening. And until SCEA opens that pandora box, we don't know WHAT's going on.
Of more concern to me, however, is Rock Band. With only two USB ports, we already know the Guitar has a dongle. Is this a universal dongle, aka all the the instruments, and if not, this could put the potential kibosh on PS3 Rock Band without the additional purchase of a HUB. But then again, 360 only has 3 USB ports so such issues would have already been solved on that hardware.
Raikage (NDF - PK THUNDER RING) @ Oct 6th 2007 2:43AM
Blah Blah Blah, I'm a fanboy. Shut up. Sony got the (W)ell (T)hat's (F)unny award for a reason.
Personally it's not a huge deal for me, if I bought one, it would (hopefully) be for PS3 games. Although, I don't have a PS2... anymore... Disk Read Error... Well That's Funny...
JimWack @ Oct 6th 2007 8:18AM
I thought the PS3 was a powerhouse with its 6-8 processors running at 3.2ghz and its amazing 256 MB of ram !
Wait, why would you only have 256 MB of ram for 6-8 processors?
Anyway, Yes a powerhouse system that can't emulate something that is 300mhz, 32mb ram machine?
kinshadow @ Oct 6th 2007 12:57AM
I think the thing that people keep missing is that the hardcore gamer is NOT the person getting screwed by this. Anyone who reads a game blog will know which model can/ can not play PS2 games. What happens when little Johnny pops in GTA:SA on Christmas morning? He's gonna be pissed that he has to keep his PS2 around when little Billy up the street does not.
Jojo @ Oct 6th 2007 1:01AM
I follow the industry pretty close with daily trips to news blogs and message boards, but even I'm getting confused between the 80 60 and 40 gb versions. Imagine what its going to do for the average consumer.
And sony keeps giving me reasons not to buy their machine. First it was just the price. I figured at 399 I would bite and get a PS3. As of last week I wasn't going to get one until it is 399 and has rumble controllers. Now, as of today, I'm not getting one till its 399, has rumble and is BC. I might as well wait till there are a few games packaged in too.
Korova @ Oct 6th 2007 8:17AM
Message is the problem. Sony cant put out a clear consistent message about PS3 to save its life.
If gamers who pay more attention than anyone cant make sense of what sony is doing, there is a problem. Hence the WTF award!
The arguments on joystiq are not the usual whining - there is clear confusion and the discussion has no anchors. That means Sony has failed to give gamers things they can agree on. Bad brand management this is!
Bluebrake @ Oct 6th 2007 4:39PM
This is right on. Every time they come out with an exciting announcement, it's tempered with some total buzz-kill. The complete lack of innovation in the new DualShock is another example. They hand us a piece of candy with one hand, and then stab us in the eye with the other hand.
I *want* to buy a PS3, but it's like they won't let me.
Dragod @ Oct 6th 2007 1:08AM
Does Sony honestly not realize that the reason I'm not buying a PlayStation 3 isn't the price, it's the /lack of/ games?
I'd happily pay the $600 if I felt like I could go home and play games for hours on end. And after I master those games, get that new killer-app that just came out?
Honestly, look at the games for the Xbox 360. Many, many games that are receiving great scores come out nearly monthly, the rest of the holiday season is going to be crazy. I honestly don't know what I'm going to buy next.
I got Halo 3, that was my big one. I want to check out BioShock, I want to get Oblivion: GOTYE, Mass Effect, GHIII, UT3, and other games that look interesting. I can only play so many games, but I can't spend $600 to play the system once a month...